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+--- Thread: 6V92 won't start (/showthread.php?tid=5590)
Pages: 1 2
6V92 won't start - mrkane1952 - 08-29-2007 05:57
Greetings All:
I was again exercising the systems after being stationary in this park
for two months, in preparation for getting back on the road next week.
I could not start the coach engine, an '85 6V92. This is the first
failure to start I have experienced in the eighteen months I've owned
the coach. Usually it goes almost as soon as the key engages the
starter.
Symptoms: the starter motor does not turn. All the dash responses are
normal when switching on the ignition--relays audibly toggle, low air
buzzer and light are active and the suspension dump light is on. The
safeline lights flash in the overhead. Turning the key to "start"
causes a couple meters to peg low, but the 12 volt ammeter shows no
change, nor does the volt meter.
I have checked:
1) Battery condition--On this coach, all six 6 volt batteries are tied
together; there is no dedicated house or starting set. All have
sufficient water, and each reads about 6.3 volts with the charger off.
Voltage from the positive tie point to the chassis reads about 12.5
volts--roughly the same as the dash meter. Resistance from the
battery posts to the tie point, and from the negative posts to the
chassis is about 2 ohms (without cleaning the grease off.) No
corrosion is visible at any connector.
2) Engaging the "aux. battery" switch made no difference.
3) The no-start response is similar to the times I didn't get the
transmission selector fully into the "N" neutral position before
trying to crank the motor over, so I cycled the selector several times
to be sure.
4) Toggled the A/T switch.
5) I have no key for the rear start switch, but I cycled the
front-off-rear switch several times. For the present I decided not to
remove and open the box until further consultation.
6) Fuel (5/8 tank, Racor no water) and coolant seem correct.
Riding a Harley since the seventies prepared me for a certain amount
of backroad repair using what little I had in my saddlebags, but now I
have discovered how difficult it is to troubleshoot a 40 foot long
coach without a helper or sufficient tools. Even tried reading my
Fluke in the backup camera, but no luck. It embarrasses me to say I
don't fit under the bus to get to the starter, either!
The lack or prior symptoms makes me suspect a safety interlock
somewhere may be the cause, rather than the starter itself. So the
question for the group is what else to try before I call for a mobile
repair tech (at $110 /hour)?
Thanks--
M.R.Kane
1985 PT 40
near Sanger, TX
6V92 won't start - Howard O. Truitt - 08-29-2007 06:12
Will your generator crank?
Howard T., Sowega, 86 PT40
----- Original Message -----
From: mrkane1952
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:57 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] 6V92 won't start
Greetings All:
I was again exercising the systems after being stationary in this park
for two months, in preparation for getting back on the road next week.
I could not start the coach engine, an '85 6V92. This is the first
failure to start I have experienced in the eighteen months I've owned
the coach. Usually it goes almost as soon as the key engages the
starter.
Symptoms: the starter motor does not turn. All the dash responses are
normal when switching on the ignition--relays audibly toggle, low air
buzzer and light are active and the suspension dump light is on. The
safeline lights flash in the overhead. Turning the key to "start"
causes a couple meters to peg low, but the 12 volt ammeter shows no
change, nor does the volt meter.
I have checked:
1) Battery condition--On this coach, all six 6 volt batteries are tied
together; there is no dedicated house or starting set. All have
sufficient water, and each reads about 6.3 volts with the charger off.
Voltage from the positive tie point to the chassis reads about 12.5
volts--roughly the same as the dash meter. Resistance from the
battery posts to the tie point, and from the negative posts to the
chassis is about 2 ohms (without cleaning the grease off.) No
corrosion is visible at any connector.
2) Engaging the "aux. battery" switch made no difference.
3) The no-start response is similar to the times I didn't get the
transmission selector fully into the "N" neutral position before
trying to crank the motor over, so I cycled the selector several times
to be sure.
4) Toggled the A/T switch.
5) I have no key for the rear start switch, but I cycled the
front-off-rear switch several times. For the present I decided not to
remove and open the box until further consultation.
6) Fuel (5/8 tank, Racor no water) and coolant seem correct.
Riding a Harley since the seventies prepared me for a certain amount
of backroad repair using what little I had in my saddlebags, but now I
have discovered how difficult it is to troubleshoot a 40 foot long
coach without a helper or sufficient tools. Even tried reading my
Fluke in the backup camera, but no luck. It embarrasses me to say I
don't fit under the bus to get to the starter, either!
The lack or prior symptoms makes me suspect a safety interlock
somewhere may be the cause, rather than the starter itself. So the
question for the group is what else to try before I call for a mobile
repair tech (at $110 /hour)?
Thanks--
M.R.Kane
1985 PT 40
near Sanger, TX
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6V92 won't start - erniecarpet@... - 08-29-2007 06:13
You might also take apart the rear start box and see if anything is loose.
Mine did the same thing and Nick Stanko figured it out and messed with those
wires.
Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Livingston, Mt
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6V92 won't start - mrkane1952 - 08-29-2007 06:51
Generator cranks and runs OK.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Howard O. Truitt"
>
> Will your generator crank?
> Howard T., Sowega, 86 PT40
>
>
6V92 won't start - bloomas - 08-29-2007 07:22
----- Original Message -----
From: mrkane1952
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:57 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] 6V92 won't start
Have you tried starting from the rear switch.Also I have had the same trouble
what I do is turn the key I let it stay that way for a short time with out
trying to start the engine.
After about a min. I give it a try.
Bob Loomas 1985 PT 36
Greetings All:
I was again exercising the systems after being stationary in this park
for two months, in preparation for getting back on the road next week.
I could not start the coach engine, an '85 6V92. This is the first
failure to start I have experienced in the eighteen months I've owned
the coach. Usually it goes almost as soon as the key engages the
starter.
Symptoms: the starter motor does not turn. All the dash responses are
normal when switching on the ignition--relays audibly toggle, low air
buzzer and light are active and the suspension dump light is on. The
safeline lights flash in the overhead. Turning the key to "start"
causes a couple meters to peg low, but the 12 volt ammeter shows no
change, nor does the volt meter.
I have checked:
1) Battery condition--On this coach, all six 6 volt batteries are tied
together; there is no dedicated house or starting set. All have
sufficient water, and each reads about 6.3 volts with the charger off.
Voltage from the positive tie point to the chassis reads about 12.5
volts--roughly the same as the dash meter. Resistance from the
battery posts to the tie point, and from the negative posts to the
chassis is about 2 ohms (without cleaning the grease off.) No
corrosion is visible at any connector.
2) Engaging the "aux. battery" switch made no difference.
3) The no-start response is similar to the times I didn't get the
transmission selector fully into the "N" neutral position before
trying to crank the motor over, so I cycled the selector several times
to be sure.
4) Toggled the A/T switch.
5) I have no key for the rear start switch, but I cycled the
front-off-rear switch several times. For the present I decided not to
remove and open the box until further consultation.
6) Fuel (5/8 tank, Racor no water) and coolant seem correct.
Riding a Harley since the seventies prepared me for a certain amount
of backroad repair using what little I had in my saddlebags, but now I
have discovered how difficult it is to troubleshoot a 40 foot long
coach without a helper or sufficient tools. Even tried reading my
Fluke in the backup camera, but no luck. It embarrasses me to say I
don't fit under the bus to get to the starter, either!
The lack or prior symptoms makes me suspect a safety interlock
somewhere may be the cause, rather than the starter itself. So the
question for the group is what else to try before I call for a mobile
repair tech (at $110 /hour)?
Thanks--
M.R.Kane
1985 PT 40
near Sanger, TX
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6V92 won't start - mbulriss - 08-29-2007 08:54
Micheal,
You hit all the obvious points. Normally I would say, I don't care
how good all the battery and ground connections look, clean them again
anyway.
One last thought came to mind after all the other things you checked.
My 83 PT40 with the 6V92 did that to me one time and after chasing
all the other things you mentioned, it came down to the main power
solenoid in the overhead dash above the driver. If you look up there,
there should be a good size round solenoid with a heavy red 12V cable
coming into it and tons of other smaller wire connections coming off
of it via multiple studs. On mine, years of bouncing up and down the
road loosened one of the wires going into a crimped connector lug just
enough that it would not always do anything. It had the same 'dead
key' approach that you are describing -- nothing when you turn the
key. I found it by accident by just gently wiggling all the wires
connected to it. The lug had to be replaced on the end of the wire.
Re-crimping 'might' have done it, but maybe not.
Good luck. Let us know the outcome.
Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mrkane1952" <mrkane@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings All:
>
> I was again exercising the systems after being stationary in this park
> for two months, in preparation for getting back on the road next week.
> I could not start the coach engine, an '85 6V92. This is the first
> failure to start I have experienced in the eighteen months I've owned
> the coach. Usually it goes almost as soon as the key engages the
> starter.
>
> Symptoms: the starter motor does not turn. All the dash responses are
> normal when switching on the ignition--relays audibly toggle, low air
> buzzer and light are active and the suspension dump light is on. The
> safeline lights flash in the overhead. Turning the key to "start"
> causes a couple meters to peg low, but the 12 volt ammeter shows no
> change, nor does the volt meter.
>
> I have checked:
> 1) Battery condition--On this coach, all six 6 volt batteries are tied
> together; there is no dedicated house or starting set. All have
> sufficient water, and each reads about 6.3 volts with the charger off.
> Voltage from the positive tie point to the chassis reads about 12.5
> volts--roughly the same as the dash meter. Resistance from the
> battery posts to the tie point, and from the negative posts to the
> chassis is about 2 ohms (without cleaning the grease off.) No
> corrosion is visible at any connector.
>
> 2) Engaging the "aux. battery" switch made no difference.
>
> 3) The no-start response is similar to the times I didn't get the
> transmission selector fully into the "N" neutral position before
> trying to crank the motor over, so I cycled the selector several times
> to be sure.
>
> 4) Toggled the A/T switch.
>
> 5) I have no key for the rear start switch, but I cycled the
> front-off-rear switch several times. For the present I decided not to
> remove and open the box until further consultation.
>
> 6) Fuel (5/8 tank, Racor no water) and coolant seem correct.
>
> Riding a Harley since the seventies prepared me for a certain amount
> of backroad repair using what little I had in my saddlebags, but now I
> have discovered how difficult it is to troubleshoot a 40 foot long
> coach without a helper or sufficient tools. Even tried reading my
> Fluke in the backup camera, but no luck. It embarrasses me to say I
> don't fit under the bus to get to the starter, either!
>
> The lack or prior symptoms makes me suspect a safety interlock
> somewhere may be the cause, rather than the starter itself. So the
> question for the group is what else to try before I call for a mobile
> repair tech (at $110 /hour)?
>
> Thanks--
>
> M.R.Kane
> 1985 PT 40
> near Sanger, TX
>
6V92 won't start - freewill2008 - 08-29-2007 10:17
Our BB is not a PT, but there must also be a "solenoid" or "relay"
between the batteries and the starter motor on your PT. This relay
receives a 12V signal when the key is in the "start" position. If
the relay is bad, or the wiring has gone south between the key and
the relay, the symptoms would be as you describe. The relay will
have two BIG cables and one or two small wires.
THE ENGINE MAY DECIDE TO START AT ANY TIME DURING THESE TESTS. BE
CAREFUL!!!
To trouble shoot these components, test the voltage at the relay
while someone holds the key in "start":
- If 12V shows up at the small wire and the relay doesn't "thunk", it
is the relay.
- If 12V does not show up at the small wire, look at the wiring
between the relay and key switch, the switch itself, or the 12V
supply to the key switch.
- If the relay "thunks in" and there is voltage at the big cable on
the starter side of the relay, check out the starter and starter
cable.
- If, while the relay is "thunked in", there is NOT voltage at the
big cable on the starter side then it is the relay.
This all assumes the cables have been cleaned, visually inspected,
and secured, and that there is 12V at the battery side of the starter
relay.
Note: There may be two small wires on the relay. If so, one is a
ground wire. Test it for a good ground using an ohmeter; if the
ground tests good just ignore it an use the other small wire for the
above tests.
Bob Griesel 84 FC
>
> Micheal,
>
> You hit all the obvious points. Normally I would say, I don't care
> how good all the battery and ground connections look, clean them
again
> anyway.
>
> One last thought came to mind after all the other things you
checked.
> My 83 PT40 with the 6V92 did that to me one time and after chasing
> all the other things you mentioned, it came down to the main power
> solenoid in the overhead dash above the driver. If you look up
there,
> there should be a good size round solenoid with a heavy red 12V
cable
> coming into it and tons of other smaller wire connections coming off
> of it via multiple studs. On mine, years of bouncing up and down
the
> road loosened one of the wires going into a crimped connector lug
just
> enough that it would not always do anything. It had the same 'dead
> key' approach that you are describing -- nothing when you turn the
> key. I found it by accident by just gently wiggling all the wires
> connected to it. The lug had to be replaced on the end of the
wire.
> Re-crimping 'might' have done it, but maybe not.
>
> Good luck. Let us know the outcome.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mrkane1952" <mrkane@>
wrote:
> >
> > Greetings All:
> >
> > I was again exercising the systems after being stationary in this
park
> > for two months, in preparation for getting back on the road next
week.
> > I could not start the coach engine, an '85 6V92. This is the
first
> > failure to start I have experienced in the eighteen months I've
owned
> > the coach. Usually it goes almost as soon as the key engages the
> > starter.
> >
> > Symptoms: the starter motor does not turn. All the dash
responses are
> > normal when switching on the ignition--relays audibly toggle, low
air
> > buzzer and light are active and the suspension dump light is on.
The
> > safeline lights flash in the overhead. Turning the key to "start"
> > causes a couple meters to peg low, but the 12 volt ammeter shows
no
> > change, nor does the volt meter.
> >
> > I have checked:
> > 1) Battery condition--On this coach, all six 6 volt batteries are
tied
> > together; there is no dedicated house or starting set. All have
> > sufficient water, and each reads about 6.3 volts with the charger
off.
> > Voltage from the positive tie point to the chassis reads about
12.5
> > volts--roughly the same as the dash meter. Resistance from the
> > battery posts to the tie point, and from the negative posts to the
> > chassis is about 2 ohms (without cleaning the grease off.) No
> > corrosion is visible at any connector.
> >
> > 2) Engaging the "aux. battery" switch made no difference.
> >
> > 3) The no-start response is similar to the times I didn't get the
> > transmission selector fully into the "N" neutral position before
> > trying to crank the motor over, so I cycled the selector several
times
> > to be sure.
> >
> > 4) Toggled the A/T switch.
> >
> > 5) I have no key for the rear start switch, but I cycled the
> > front-off-rear switch several times. For the present I decided
not to
> > remove and open the box until further consultation.
> >
> > 6) Fuel (5/8 tank, Racor no water) and coolant seem correct.
> >
> > Riding a Harley since the seventies prepared me for a certain
amount
> > of backroad repair using what little I had in my saddlebags, but
now I
> > have discovered how difficult it is to troubleshoot a 40 foot long
> > coach without a helper or sufficient tools. Even tried reading my
> > Fluke in the backup camera, but no luck. It embarrasses me to
say I
> > don't fit under the bus to get to the starter, either!
> >
> > The lack or prior symptoms makes me suspect a safety interlock
> > somewhere may be the cause, rather than the starter itself. So
the
> > question for the group is what else to try before I call for a
mobile
> > repair tech (at $110 /hour)?
> >
> > Thanks--
> >
> > M.R.Kane
> > 1985 PT 40
> > near Sanger, TX
> >
>
6V92 won't start - Bob Lawrence - 08-29-2007 12:27
I had this problem almost a month ago. Turned out the starter was
bad. Fortunally for me, it happened while it was in the Peterbuilt
shop. Foreman said these starters don't last that long. Replaced and
kicked right over...think I will be carrying a spare in the pod.
Bob Lawrence
84 PT 36
Tacoma,Wa
>
> Greetings All:
>
> I was again exercising the systems after being stationary in this
park
> for two months, in preparation for getting back on the road next
week.
> I could not start the coach engine, an '85 6V92. This is the first
> failure to start I have experienced in the eighteen months I've
owned
> the coach. Usually it goes almost as soon as the key engages the
> starter.
>
> Symptoms: the starter motor does not turn. All the dash responses
are
> normal when switching on the ignition--relays audibly toggle, low
air
> buzzer and light are active and the suspension dump light is on.
The
> safeline lights flash in the overhead. Turning the key to "start"
> causes a couple meters to peg low, but the 12 volt ammeter shows no
> change, nor does the volt meter.
>
> I have checked:
> 1) Battery condition--On this coach, all six 6 volt batteries are
tied
> together; there is no dedicated house or starting set. All have
> sufficient water, and each reads about 6.3 volts with the charger
off.
> Voltage from the positive tie point to the chassis reads about 12.5
> volts--roughly the same as the dash meter. Resistance from the
> battery posts to the tie point, and from the negative posts to the
> chassis is about 2 ohms (without cleaning the grease off.) No
> corrosion is visible at any connector.
>
> 2) Engaging the "aux. battery" switch made no difference.
>
> 3) The no-start response is similar to the times I didn't get the
> transmission selector fully into the "N" neutral position before
> trying to crank the motor over, so I cycled the selector several
times
> to be sure.
>
> 4) Toggled the A/T switch.
>
> 5) I have no key for the rear start switch, but I cycled the
> front-off-rear switch several times. For the present I decided not
to
> remove and open the box until further consultation.
>
> 6) Fuel (5/8 tank, Racor no water) and coolant seem correct.
>
> Riding a Harley since the seventies prepared me for a certain amount
> of backroad repair using what little I had in my saddlebags, but
now I
> have discovered how difficult it is to troubleshoot a 40 foot long
> coach without a helper or sufficient tools. Even tried reading my
> Fluke in the backup camera, but no luck. It embarrasses me to say I
> don't fit under the bus to get to the starter, either!
>
> The lack or prior symptoms makes me suspect a safety interlock
> somewhere may be the cause, rather than the starter itself. So the
> question for the group is what else to try before I call for a
mobile
> repair tech (at $110 /hour)?
>
> Thanks--
>
> M.R.Kane
> 1985 PT 40
> near Sanger, TX
>
6V92 won't start - Mike McMahan - 08-29-2007 12:45
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
Always check the simple stuff first. If memory serves me correctly
the 85 has a manual shifter. Shift the shifter into another gear and
then back to neutral. You might even try wiggling the shifter while
holding the key in the start position. This is a very common fix.
If this and the other items people have suggested don't work I'll try
and walk you thru the starting circuit. Mike McMahan 89 PT40
> You might also take apart the rear start box and see if anything is
loose.
> Mine did the same thing and Nick Stanko figured it out and messed
with those
> wires.
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Livingston, Mt
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
6V92 won't start - sfedeli3 - 08-29-2007 14:39
Kane,
On my '85, you can work the rear key start box with the large key
that opens the Bargman lock on the front door (has the big "B" on the
key. Maybe yours is the same??
When I first bought mine, I drove it from AZ to PA. On the way
across MO I-44, bumps got pretty bad and the cable to the starter came
loose on the stud. Had the same symptoms as you're describing. Since
you are going to be under there checking the stud anyway, take a long
handled screwdriver with you and dry jumping the solenoid stud to the
large stud on the starter body. The solenoid is usually what fails on
starters (some call it a "Bendix") Good luck! Let us know what you
find out.
Shane Fedeli
85PT40
Hershey, PA
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mrkane1952" <mrkane@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings All:
>
> I was again exercising the systems after being stationary in this park
> for two months, in preparation for getting back on the road next week.
> I could not start the coach engine, an '85 6V92. This is the first
> failure to start I have experienced in the eighteen months I've owned
> the coach. Usually it goes almost as soon as the key engages the
> starter.
>
> Symptoms: the starter motor does not turn. All the dash responses are
> normal when switching on the ignition--relays audibly toggle, low air
> buzzer and light are active and the suspension dump light is on. The
> safeline lights flash in the overhead. Turning the key to "start"
> causes a couple meters to peg low, but the 12 volt ammeter shows no
> change, nor does the volt meter.
>
> I have checked:
> 1) Battery condition--On this coach, all six 6 volt batteries are tied
> together; there is no dedicated house or starting set. All have
> sufficient water, and each reads about 6.3 volts with the charger off.
> Voltage from the positive tie point to the chassis reads about 12.5
> volts--roughly the same as the dash meter. Resistance from the
> battery posts to the tie point, and from the negative posts to the
> chassis is about 2 ohms (without cleaning the grease off.) No
> corrosion is visible at any connector.
>
> 2) Engaging the "aux. battery" switch made no difference.
>
> 3) The no-start response is similar to the times I didn't get the
> transmission selector fully into the "N" neutral position before
> trying to crank the motor over, so I cycled the selector several times
> to be sure.
>
> 4) Toggled the A/T switch.
>
> 5) I have no key for the rear start switch, but I cycled the
> front-off-rear switch several times. For the present I decided not to
> remove and open the box until further consultation.
>
> 6) Fuel (5/8 tank, Racor no water) and coolant seem correct.
>
> Riding a Harley since the seventies prepared me for a certain amount
> of backroad repair using what little I had in my saddlebags, but now I
> have discovered how difficult it is to troubleshoot a 40 foot long
> coach without a helper or sufficient tools. Even tried reading my
> Fluke in the backup camera, but no luck. It embarrasses me to say I
> don't fit under the bus to get to the starter, either!
>
> The lack or prior symptoms makes me suspect a safety interlock
> somewhere may be the cause, rather than the starter itself. So the
> question for the group is what else to try before I call for a mobile
> repair tech (at $110 /hour)?
>
> Thanks--
>
> M.R.Kane
> 1985 PT 40
> near Sanger, TX
>