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Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: Starting Batteries (Engine only!) (/showthread.php?tid=6772) Pages: 1 2 |
Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Gregg Kizer - 05-26-2008 10:24 GROUP Question: What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular Type/ with high CCA rating") are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would one go with when replacing all three (3)battery units. It seems time has come to replace out the three (3) engine batteries of which are presently a Deep Cycle type (Wolverine Deep Cycle /brand of battery/ with ThermOil Battery Technology) when aquiring this coach . My other batteries (six Large Deep Cycle AGM) are AGM type for the "House Service". I have a splite system battery set up for this '96 coach. Does the various seating around of the coach while in storage (not using coach, cold winter storage, etc...) warrant and best suit the "Deep Cycle" type batteries vs the "Regular Type" for purpose of starting my 60 Series Detroit engine??? This might be the reason for the "Deep Cycle" type batteries on the "Engine" battery set-up that is being used now. Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@ $87.24 per battery cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and replace them often as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep Cycle" type batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to the various storage assignments of the coach and various charging issues (cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger, etc.)????? It seems that Blue Bird has the engine battery bank charging controled by owner (me!!) to regulate the amount of engine battery bank charge while sitting (shore power or generator power) and not runing the engine (travel time) by design... NOTE: With price of fuel, I am sure all our batteries will be more in a directed storage stage of life of our coaches....Just a thougt! WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements? I am sure the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to the batteries to keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment area vs. the AGM type batteries as used in "House battery Service"... Gregg Kizer `96 WBSD `42 KB9BG (ham call) New Castle, IN Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Gregory OConnor - 05-26-2008 10:50 I dont know if having glass mat or other types of batteries in the inverter storage bank should influence start battery choice when a charger setting is used to boost both banks???? I would use regular high start amp commercial truck batteries. when my 94 is stored for over a month I clip on a automatic trickle charger I got at pepboys aprox $40 because the onboard chargers dont maintain the start bank and I dont want to tie the two together at the dash. I need to pick up a set myself. my start batteries are wet cell /no maintenance but RobR clued me in on the hidden caps and a hydrometer test proved uneven reading across the batteries. I dont want to end up with electrical issues in the DDec caused by batteries. GregoryO'Connor --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg Kizer" wrote: > > GROUP Question: > > What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular Type/ with high CCA rating") > are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would one go with when > replacing all three (3)battery units. It seems time has come to > replace out the three (3) engine batteries of which are presently a > Deep Cycle type (Wolverine Deep Cycle /brand of battery/ with > ThermOil Battery Technology) when aquiring this coach . My other > batteries (six Large Deep Cycle AGM) are AGM type for the "House > Service". I have a splite system battery set up for this '96 coach. > > Does the various seating around of the coach while in storage (not > using coach, cold winter storage, etc...) warrant and best suit > the "Deep Cycle" type batteries vs the "Regular Type" for purpose of > starting my 60 Series Detroit engine??? This might be the reason for > the "Deep Cycle" type batteries on the "Engine" battery set-up that > is being used now. > > Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@ $87.24 per battery > cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and replace them often > as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep Cycle" type > batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to the > various storage assignments of the coach and various charging issues > (cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger, etc.)????? > > It seems that Blue Bird has the engine battery bank charging > controled by owner (me!!) to regulate the amount of engine battery > bank charge while sitting (shore power or generator power) and not > runing the engine (travel time) by design... > > NOTE: With price of fuel, I am sure all our batteries will be more > in a directed storage stage of life of our coaches....Just a thougt! > > WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements? I am sure > the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to the batteries to > keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment area vs. the > AGM type batteries as used in "House battery Service"... > > Gregg Kizer > `96 WBSD `42 > KB9BG (ham call) > New Castle, IN > Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Pete Masterson - 05-26-2008 13:27 The engine batteries require maximum CCA when starting. The rest of the time, they don't provide much juice to the system. You should get regular type with high CCA rating batteries for the three type 31A 12v engine batteries. If you want the convenience of minimum maintenance, then AGM batteries would be preferred. If you don't mind doing regular battery water checks, then the Sam's CLub commercial type battery ought to work OK. At the moment, I can't tell you exactly what I have as the previous owner purchased them -- but they're Deka brand AGM, with 1000 CCA (more or less). They are not specifically a deep cycle battery. Deep cycle design reduces the relative CCA and what you need to start the Series 60 is plenty of CCA. Personally, I prefer the easy (no) maintenance of AGM design batteries. I'd be inclined to get Sam's Club or Costco batteries for the reasonable price. Costco sells compatible batteries in both AGM and regular wet cells. Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com" On May 26, 2008, at 3:24 PM, Gregg Kizer wrote:
Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - KB9BG - 05-26-2008 13:51 Thanks Greg for the reply, thus 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. The above may be all advertising Now we have the issue of this With a split battery system the Wondering cost and convenient if One The Sam Club Commercial battery Let me know what you come up in thought Regards From: I dont know if having glass mat or other types of batteries in the inverter storage bank should influence start battery choice when a charger setting is used to boost both banks???? I would use regular high start amp commercial truck batteries. when my 94 is stored for over a month I clip on a automatic trickle charger I got at pepboys aprox $40 because the onboard chargers dont maintain the start bank and I dont want to tie the two together at the dash. I need to pick up a set myself. my start batteries are wet cell /no maintenance but RobR clued me in on the hidden caps and a hydrometer test proved uneven reading across the batteries. I dont want to end up with electrical issues in the DDec caused by batteries. GregoryO'Connor --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Gregg Kizer" wrote: > > GROUP Question: > > What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular Type/ with high CCA rating") > are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would one go with when > replacing all three (3)battery units. It seems time has come to > replace out the three (3) engine batteries of which are presently a > Deep Cycle type (Wolverine Deep Cycle /brand of battery/ with > ThermOil Battery Technology) when aquiring this coach . My other > batteries (six Large Deep Cycle AGM) are AGM type for the "House > Service". I have a splite system battery set up for this '96 coach. > > Does the various seating around of the coach while in storage (not > using coach, cold winter storage, etc...) warrant and best suit > the "Deep Cycle" type batteries vs the "Regular Type" for purpose of > starting my 60 Series Detroit engine??? This might be the reason for > the "Deep Cycle" type batteries on the "Engine" battery set-up that > is being used now. > > Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@ $87.24 per battery > cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and replace them often > as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep Cycle" type > batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to the > various storage assignments of the coach and various charging issues > (cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger, etc.)????? > > It seems that Blue Bird has the engine battery bank charging > controled by owner (me!!) to regulate the amount of engine battery > bank charge while sitting (shore power or generator power) and not > runing the engine (travel time) by design... > > NOTE: With price of fuel, I am sure all our batteries will be more > in a directed storage stage of life of our coaches....Just a thougt! > > WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements? I am sure > the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to the batteries to > keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment area vs. the > AGM type batteries as used in "House battery Service"... > > Gregg Kizer > `96 WBSD `42 > KB9BG (ham call) > New Castle, IN > |
Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - KB9BG - 05-26-2008 14:00 Pete: Thanks for the reply and you might I mentioned in my reply all the I might have to do more research Regards From: The engine batteries require maximum CCA when starting. The rest of the time, they don't provide much juice to the system. You should get regular type with high CCA rating batteries for the three type 31A 12v engine batteries. If you want the convenience of minimum maintenance, then AGM batteries would be preferred. If you don't mind doing regular battery water checks, then the Sam's CLub commercial type battery ought to work OK. At the moment, I can't tell you exactly what I have as the previous owner purchased them -- but they're Deka brand AGM, with 1000 CCA (more or less). They are not specifically a deep cycle battery. Deep cycle design reduces the relative CCA and what you need to start the Series 60 is plenty of CCA. Personally, I prefer the easy (no) maintenance of AGM design Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 26, 2008, at 3:24 PM, Gregg Kizer wrote:
GROUP Question: What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would replacing all three (3)battery units.<snip> Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@ cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to various storage assignments of the coach and various (cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger, <Snip> WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements? I am sure the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment AGM type batteries as used in "House battery Gregg Kizer `96 WBSD `42 KB9BG (ham call) New Castle, IN |
Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Pete Masterson - 05-26-2008 14:13 The three type 31 batteries have about 3000 CCA (at 0 degrees F) available -- about 1000 CCA each. The large house batteries (in my coach they're type 4D) have about 1100 CCA (0° F) -- so you'd still need 3 of them and there's no room. The house batteries are designed for slow, long period discharge. The engine batteries are designed for immediate quick supply of amps to drive the starter motor. They don't produce that amperage for very long, but they dump out a lot of power in a short time. That's the basis of the design differences between deep discharge and regular engine starting batteries. Aside from the sometimes problems that 3 batteries cause, you're better off to stick with the three type 31s as originally designed. Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com" On May 26, 2008, at 6:51 PM, KB9BG wrote:
Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Pete Masterson - 05-26-2008 14:22 Gregg, I think another answer may have crossed this one. The previous owner installed Deka brand type 31 AGMs for the engine batteries and type 4D (8A4DM is a type 4D) Deka AGMs (probably the same model you list) for the house batteries. Due to a probably too-deep discharge while in various dealer's hands, my house batteries were not holding a reasonable charge. I replaced them with a different brand (best price) but otherwise similar type 4D AGM batteries and now I have no problem with the house batteries. The original type 31s are still in use and seem to be doing the job. Once or twice, in the winter in Denver, I had to use the switch to join the house and engine batteries to get the DD to start up. (I've since learned to use the engine pre-heat more effectively.) The key is the total CCA needed. 3 type 31 provide approximately 1000 CCA _each_ so 3 batteries together deliver a total of 3000 CCA. The Type 4D batteries offer about 1100 CCA (each) so it would still take 3 batteries to replace the 3 type 31s. And that's not practical as they won't fit. I think the AGMs are probably likely to handle the long sitting period better than regular wet cells, but wet cells, if properly maintained will last a very long time as well. Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com" On May 26, 2008, at 7:00 PM, KB9BG wrote:
Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - KB9BG - 05-26-2008 14:28 Pete: Thanks for the reply and I feel Regards From: Gregg, I think another answer may have crossed this one. The The original type 31s are still in use and seem to be doing The key is the total CCA needed. 3 type 31 provide I think the AGMs are probably likely to handle the long Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 26, 2008, at 7:00 PM, KB9BG wrote:
Pete: Thanks for the reply and you might I mentioned in my reply all the I might have to do more research |
Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Pete Masterson - 05-26-2008 14:48 The Deka type 31s are about 4+ years old, now. My house batteries are now about 2 years old. They're Fullriver brand, part number FR4D2. I ordered them from DC Battery Specialists. I believe they were shipped from Florida -- but their delivered cost was less than the quotes I got from some other battery dealers. <http://www.dcbattery.com/>
The downside of the Fullriver battery is that the type 4D model is _slightly_ larger in physical size than the standard type 4D. I had to cut the rear of the battery tray and weld a piece of angle iron to make the battery trays about 1-1/2 inches deeper to hold the batteries. The two that go in the engine compartment just barely fit, but one of the hold-downs had to be modified to work (as did all the top brackets of the hold-downs). Also, I had to modify one of my battery cables, though the others all fit ok. So, in the end, they proved to be more trouble than the competitive price suggested. Nonetheless, I'm happy with them, but had I known about the slight size difference, I wouldn't have gotten them. I believe these batteries are most commonly used in home solar installations, so the physical size isn't as critical. Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com" On May 26, 2008, at 7:28 PM, KB9BG wrote:
Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - KB9BG - 05-26-2008 15:03 Pete: Thanks for the information and Regards ’96 WBSD 42’ New Castle, IN KB9BG (ham call) From: The Deka type 31s are about 4+ years old, now. My house batteries are now about 2 years old. They're The downside of the Fullriver battery is that the type 4D So, in the end, they proved to be more trouble than the I believe these batteries are most commonly used in home Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 26, 2008, at 7:28 PM, KB9BG wrote:
Pete: Thanks for the reply and I feel Regards Gregg W. Kizer From:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Gregg, I think another answer may have The original type 31s are still in The key is the total CCA needed. 3 I think the AGMs are probably Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 26, 2008, at 7:00 PM, KB9BG
Pete: Thanks for the reply and you might I mentioned in my reply all the I might have to do more research |
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