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Winterizing thread - Ralph - 06-15-2006 05:22
Hello everyone:
Bob's post hit the nail on the head on this subject.
From the 80's Coaches on, a good system was built into the Bird's for
winterizing, and it works!
Open the low water drain valve, open the out side spigot valve
usually found in the LP compartment.
Then switch the water heater drain/fill switch to drain and switch on
the air blow out to supply air to the water heater/water lines/ pump
and so forth. Leave the air on until only air comes from the out side
spigot and shut the air switch to the off position. This will leave
some water in the filter/ice maker/and perhaps the acumulater. This
risidual water can be drained manually as per the manual in the blue
box. After that, switch the air drain switch to on one more time to
get any collected water from the pipes, and switch the air drain
switch off. Pour 1 quart of pink stuff in the P trap in the sinks and
shower and add some tot he holding tanks which should have been
drained first. Keep the pink stuff out of the water heater and you
really dont want it in your water filter either.
Your done. Now then here is a fact on Birds. After blowing out the
water heater, there will be 2 quarts of water that remains in it.
This cannot be drained because the water level is below the drain of
the water heater. Even though this small amount of water is left in
the water heater, when it freezes there is expansion room in the
tank, so no worries there.
All this is in your manuals.
Ralph Fullenwider
RV Solutions in Oklahoma
Winterizing thread - one_dusty_hoot - 06-15-2006 09:21
Thanks Ralph, as always great instructions.
And now...
I don't feel like the Lone AIRanger....LOL
Bob, from the Sunny South where 1" of snow shuts down
the system but freezing weather still bursts pipes.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph"
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> Bob's post hit the nail on the head on this subject.
>
> From the 80's Coaches on, a good system was built into the Bird's
for
> winterizing, and it works!
>
> Open the low water drain valve, open the out side spigot valve
> usually found in the LP compartment.
>
> Then switch the water heater drain/fill switch to drain and switch
on
> the air blow out to supply air to the water heater/water lines/
pump
> and so forth. Leave the air on until only air comes from the out
side
> spigot and shut the air switch to the off position. This will
leave
> some water in the filter/ice maker/and perhaps the acumulater.
This
> risidual water can be drained manually as per the manual in the
blue
> box. After that, switch the air drain switch to on one more time
to
> get any collected water from the pipes, and switch the air drain
> switch off. Pour 1 quart of pink stuff in the P trap in the sinks
and
> shower and add some tot he holding tanks which should have been
> drained first. Keep the pink stuff out of the water heater and you
> really dont want it in your water filter either.
>
> Your done. Now then here is a fact on Birds. After blowing out the
> water heater, there will be 2 quarts of water that remains in it.
> This cannot be drained because the water level is below the drain
of
> the water heater. Even though this small amount of water is left
in
> the water heater, when it freezes there is expansion room in the
> tank, so no worries there.
>
> All this is in your manuals.
>
> Ralph Fullenwider
> RV Solutions in Oklahoma
>
Winterizing thread - pattypape - 06-15-2006 09:40
Ralph & Bob,
I do appreciate your experience and respect your success with
the short cut methods outlined in the BB manuals.
But at my age, I have far too many examples of family, neighbors,
and friends, using the air blow method to winterize their cabins,
their homes as they head South and lots of RV's & especially boats.
The air compressor only method, works year after year, then one
winter folks return to split pipes and cracked engine blocks or
cracked exhaust manifolds. Air just seems to blow past the trapped
water sometimes. This problem can be a nightmare.
So for my safety margin, and comfort, I will just add a little more
time and $10/$15 bucks of Pink Stuff. And atleast have peace of mind.
This method works for me, just as yours does for you.
Bill 88 FC Michigan
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph"
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> Bob's post hit the nail on the head on this subject.
>
> From the 80's Coaches on, a good system was built into the Bird's
for
> winterizing, and it works!
>
> Open the low water drain valve, open the out side spigot valve
> usually found in the LP compartment.
>
> Then switch the water heater drain/fill switch to drain and switch
on
> the air blow out to supply air to the water heater/water lines/
pump
> and so forth. Leave the air on until only air comes from the out
side
> spigot and shut the air switch to the off position. This will
leave
> some water in the filter/ice maker/and perhaps the acumulater.
This
> risidual water can be drained manually as per the manual in the
blue
> box. After that, switch the air drain switch to on one more time
to
> get any collected water from the pipes, and switch the air drain
> switch off. Pour 1 quart of pink stuff in the P trap in the sinks
and
> shower and add some tot he holding tanks which should have been
> drained first. Keep the pink stuff out of the water heater and you
> really dont want it in your water filter either.
>
> Your done. Now then here is a fact on Birds. After blowing out the
> water heater, there will be 2 quarts of water that remains in it.
> This cannot be drained because the water level is below the drain
of
> the water heater. Even though this small amount of water is left
in
> the water heater, when it freezes there is expansion room in the
> tank, so no worries there.
>
> All this is in your manuals.
>
> Ralph Fullenwider
> RV Solutions in Oklahoma
>
Winterizing thread - Tom Warner - 06-15-2006 10:38
Ralph I respect your expertise but this time I believe both you and
Bob did not hit the nail on the head, but instead may have given some
owners a false security in believing that the BB way of winterizing
the lines by blowing air thru them was foolproof. It is not. But as
always when two people disagree I believe it best to describe why so
it does not become a contest of expertise (for I have little) but
instead can air out the differences so others can make their own
decisions. If blowing air thru the lines ensured that all of the
water was expelled then why are there so many coaches with frozen pipes?
In the case of the 1982 FC35 with a side bath that I had there was
NOT an outside spigot as you describe for the low water point of the
system. Were you perhaps describing a rear bath coach? In my case
the low point was supposed to be a valve under the bathroom sink that
was parallel to the floor and that emptied thru the floor to the
underside of the coach. But even if that were true it would not
alter my disagreement that air is not a fool proof way to remove all
of the water from the lines so that when the cold weather hits for
even a single night you can GUARANTEE that even a single pipe will
not freeze. Bluebird designed the fresh water system when winterizing
with the air pressure method to first empty the hot water heater and
the fresh water tank by flowing out the rear of the coach in the case
of the hot water heater and in the case of the fresh water tank to
flow to the lowest point which in my case was the valve underneath
the bathroom cabinet. But again that point is only the low point if
the coach is on a level surface. Even a slight uphill attitude of
the front of the coach can cause the air to blow by the last of the
water in the long lines which extend from the rear water heater on a
Side bath coach to under the bathroom sink. When the air is shutoff
the small risidual amount of water that is left in the bottom of the
lines as the air blows over it, will flow backwards to the new lowest
point and settles there ready to be frozen. And it will if the inside
temperature falls below freezing.
I have been lucky that my has not frozen and I have taken
extraordinary precautions to ensure it did not. In the future I want
to make it sure and fast when winterizing. I believe if it is
possible that most will chose this method to relieve the doubts. I
know I dont want to replace a copper line in my coach and cause even
more problems with the new PEX line which undoubtably will not be
perfectly straight and cause even more water to be trapped.
With a hotwater bypass and a few other slight changes in the
winterizing method I believe it is possible to completely winterize
the system without the solution coming into contact with the fresh
water or hot water tanks. In addition once winterized I want to be
able to purge the solution by simply turning on the water pump and
pumping fresh water into the system replacing the winterizing
solution into the waste tanks. I did exactly that on my 1976 GMC
motorhome and I will do the same on the 1985 PT 40 that I now own.
If others are interested in doing it that way, and getting rid of the
doubts of whether a pipe will freeze or not, then when mine is
completed I will be glad to show others how to do it. If not then
they may continue doing it the way they chose.
Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40
At 01:22 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote:
>Hello everyone:
>
>Bob's post hit the nail on the head on this subject.
>
> From the 80's Coaches on, a good system was built into the Bird's for
>winterizing, and it works!
>
>Open the low water drain valve, open the out side spigot valve
>usually found in the LP compartment.
>
>Then switch the water heater drain/fill switch to drain and switch on
>the air blow out to supply air to the water heater/water lines/ pump
>and so forth. Leave the air on until only air comes from the out side
>spigot and shut the air switch to the off position. This will leave
>some water in the filter/ice maker/and perhaps the acumulater. This
>risidual water can be drained manually as per the manual in the blue
>box. After that, switch the air drain switch to on one more time to
>get any collected water from the pipes, and switch the air drain
>switch off. Pour 1 quart of pink stuff in the P trap in the sinks and
>shower and add some tot he holding tanks which should have been
>drained first. Keep the pink stuff out of the water heater and you
>really dont want it in your water filter either.
>
>Your done. Now then here is a fact on Birds. After blowing out the
>water heater, there will be 2 quarts of water that remains in it.
>This cannot be drained because the water level is below the drain of
>the water heater. Even though this small amount of water is left in
>the water heater, when it freezes there is expansion room in the
>tank, so no worries there.
>
>All this is in your manuals.
>
>Ralph Fullenwider
>RV Solutions in Oklahoma
>
>
Winterizing thread - davidkerryedwards - 06-15-2006 11:02
I'm a prime example of this. The PO told me he wintererized the coach
and went thru the procedure he followed. It obviously didn't work
since I've had three substantial freeze breaks that are a pain in the
neck to fix. The water tank was not fully emptied and the water in
the line dropped down to the low spot in the cold line to the shower.
Kerry
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>
> Ralph I respect your expertise but this time I believe both you and
> Bob did not hit the nail on the head, but instead may have given some
> owners a false security in believing that the BB way of winterizing
> the lines by blowing air thru them was foolproof. It is not. But as
> always when two people disagree I believe it best to describe why so
> it does not become a contest of expertise (for I have little) but
> instead can air out the differences so others can make their own
> decisions. If blowing air thru the lines ensured that all of the
> water was expelled then why are there so many coaches with frozen pipes?
>
> In the case of the 1982 FC35 with a side bath that I had there was
> NOT an outside spigot as you describe for the low water point of the
> system. Were you perhaps describing a rear bath coach? In my case
> the low point was supposed to be a valve under the bathroom sink that
> was parallel to the floor and that emptied thru the floor to the
> underside of the coach. But even if that were true it would not
> alter my disagreement that air is not a fool proof way to remove all
> of the water from the lines so that when the cold weather hits for
> even a single night you can GUARANTEE that even a single pipe will
> not freeze. Bluebird designed the fresh water system when winterizing
> with the air pressure method to first empty the hot water heater and
> the fresh water tank by flowing out the rear of the coach in the case
> of the hot water heater and in the case of the fresh water tank to
> flow to the lowest point which in my case was the valve underneath
> the bathroom cabinet. But again that point is only the low point if
> the coach is on a level surface. Even a slight uphill attitude of
> the front of the coach can cause the air to blow by the last of the
> water in the long lines which extend from the rear water heater on a
> Side bath coach to under the bathroom sink. When the air is shutoff
> the small risidual amount of water that is left in the bottom of the
> lines as the air blows over it, will flow backwards to the new lowest
> point and settles there ready to be frozen. And it will if the inside
> temperature falls below freezing.
> I have been lucky that my has not frozen and I have taken
> extraordinary precautions to ensure it did not. In the future I want
> to make it sure and fast when winterizing. I believe if it is
> possible that most will chose this method to relieve the doubts. I
> know I dont want to replace a copper line in my coach and cause even
> more problems with the new PEX line which undoubtably will not be
> perfectly straight and cause even more water to be trapped.
>
> With a hotwater bypass and a few other slight changes in the
> winterizing method I believe it is possible to completely winterize
> the system without the solution coming into contact with the fresh
> water or hot water tanks. In addition once winterized I want to be
> able to purge the solution by simply turning on the water pump and
> pumping fresh water into the system replacing the winterizing
> solution into the waste tanks. I did exactly that on my 1976 GMC
> motorhome and I will do the same on the 1985 PT 40 that I now own.
>
> If others are interested in doing it that way, and getting rid of the
> doubts of whether a pipe will freeze or not, then when mine is
> completed I will be glad to show others how to do it. If not then
> they may continue doing it the way they chose.
>
> Tom Warner
> Vernon Center,NY
> 1985 PT 40
> At 01:22 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote:
>
> >Hello everyone:
> >
> >Bob's post hit the nail on the head on this subject.
> >
> > From the 80's Coaches on, a good system was built into the Bird's for
> >winterizing, and it works!
> >
> >Open the low water drain valve, open the out side spigot valve
> >usually found in the LP compartment.
> >
> >Then switch the water heater drain/fill switch to drain and switch on
> >the air blow out to supply air to the water heater/water lines/ pump
> >and so forth. Leave the air on until only air comes from the out side
> >spigot and shut the air switch to the off position. This will leave
> >some water in the filter/ice maker/and perhaps the acumulater. This
> >risidual water can be drained manually as per the manual in the blue
> >box. After that, switch the air drain switch to on one more time to
> >get any collected water from the pipes, and switch the air drain
> >switch off. Pour 1 quart of pink stuff in the P trap in the sinks and
> >shower and add some tot he holding tanks which should have been
> >drained first. Keep the pink stuff out of the water heater and you
> >really dont want it in your water filter either.
> >
> >Your done. Now then here is a fact on Birds. After blowing out the
> >water heater, there will be 2 quarts of water that remains in it.
> >This cannot be drained because the water level is below the drain of
> >the water heater. Even though this small amount of water is left in
> >the water heater, when it freezes there is expansion room in the
> >tank, so no worries there.
> >
> >All this is in your manuals.
> >
> >Ralph Fullenwider
> >RV Solutions in Oklahoma
> >
> >
>
Winterizing thread - birdshill123 - 06-15-2006 11:38
Although I am a new BB owner I feel I am more than qualified to jump
into this thread because: A: I have been RV'ng for 35 years B: I live
where it can and has reached minus 40 in the winter. C. We winterize
our summer cottage every fall.
My experience has been that compressed air by itself is not enough.
Water will be trapped at the elbows. Especially with copper pipes.
Assuming you have some sort of bypass the best method is to first
blow out all the lines. Then using a hand pump, pump the pink stuff
BACK from the faucets into the lines. For instance you can open the
bathroom faucet and pump from the kitchen faucet back to the
bathroom. When pink stuff comes out of the bathroom faucet pump from
the bathroom faucet to the shower. finally you need to make sure that
pink stuff is in the lines from the bathroom to under the bed. You
can manually open the check valve in the fresh water intake and have
some one pump from the bathroom till pink stuff comes out the water
intake. An alternate method is to disconnect the intake line at the
water pump and pump pink A/F to each faucet and toilet. Murphy's law
states that if a line is going to freeze it will be in the most
inaccessable place!
Bruce 1988 FC 35
Winterizing thread - Rob Robinson - 06-15-2006 11:52
Bill you speak from experience. I live in Canada and east of Vancouver BC
none of my buddies neglect the pink stuff. Personally I think the best way
to protect our units during winter is to take them where the sun shines and
it never goes below F32. Failing this you have to use the pink. Blowing out
with air prevents dilution of the pink so this is a good thing but nothing
but the pink will give you peace of mind. Like it has been said....."whats
three or four gallons of anitfreeze" in the overall equation.
On 15/06/06, pattypape
>
> Ralph & Bob,
>
> I do appreciate your experience and respect your success with
> the short cut methods outlined in the BB manuals.
>
> But at my age, I have far too many examples of family, neighbors,
> and friends, using the air blow method to winterize their cabins,
> their homes as they head South and lots of RV's & especially boats.
> The air compressor only method, works year after year, then one
> winter folks return to split pipes and cracked engine blocks or
> cracked exhaust manifolds. Air just seems to blow past the trapped
> water sometimes. This problem can be a nightmare.
> So for my safety margin, and comfort, I will just add a little more
> time and $10/$15 bucks of Pink Stuff. And atleast have peace of mind.
> This method works for me, just as yours does for you.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> "Ralph"
> >
> > Hello everyone:
> >
> > Bob's post hit the nail on the head on this subject.
> >
> > From the 80's Coaches on, a good system was built into the Bird's
> for
> > winterizing, and it works!
> >
> > Open the low water drain valve, open the out side spigot valve
> > usually found in the LP compartment.
> >
> > Then switch the water heater drain/fill switch to drain and switch
> on
> > the air blow out to supply air to the water heater/water lines/
> pump
> > and so forth. Leave the air on until only air comes from the out
> side
> > spigot and shut the air switch to the off position. This will
> leave
> > some water in the filter/ice maker/and perhaps the acumulater.
> This
> > risidual water can be drained manually as per the manual in the
> blue
> > box. After that, switch the air drain switch to on one more time
> to
> > get any collected water from the pipes, and switch the air drain
> > switch off. Pour 1 quart of pink stuff in the P trap in the sinks
> and
> > shower and add some tot he holding tanks which should have been
> > drained first. Keep the pink stuff out of the water heater and you
> > really dont want it in your water filter either.
> >
> > Your done. Now then here is a fact on Birds. After blowing out the
> > water heater, there will be 2 quarts of water that remains in it.
> > This cannot be drained because the water level is below the drain
> of
> > the water heater. Even though this small amount of water is left
> in
> > the water heater, when it freezes there is expansion room in the
> > tank, so no worries there.
> >
> > All this is in your manuals.
> >
> > Ralph Fullenwider
> > RV Solutions in Oklahoma
> >
>
>
>
--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
94 WLWB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Winterizing thread - one_dusty_hoot - 06-15-2006 15:28
Maybe I have just been lucky? Maybe it has not been cold
enough here? Maybe I took a little more care?
I have opened the front door of a house and the entire
living room ceiling had fallen to the floor, overhead
plumbing and the owner turn off the heat.
I have had to remove the siding from the back of a house
to repair all the copper pipes damaged from freezing.
Some winters, not all, it does get very cold here, enough
so that an open foundation vent can burst copper in a
heated house. And, I believe that ice doesn't require
any more space be it 24 degees F. or minus 24 degrees F.
I would lke a response please from someone who owned a
Bluebird Motor Home, not SOB, not PO "said", YOU! and
only YOU, who feel as though you did the job according
to the manual, taking care to do everything right, had
a broken pipe in their coach due to freezing.
If you have had this happen I do hope you will not
withold this information because of any guilt or
embarasement for it has been said, you followed the
instructions, and, it did not work.
Thanks, Bob Janes, Greenville, SC
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
>
> Although I am a new BB owner I feel I am more than qualified to
jump
> into this thread because: A: I have been RV'ng for 35 years B: I
live
> where it can and has reached minus 40 in the winter. C. We
winterize
> our summer cottage every fall.
>
> My experience has been that compressed air by itself is not
enough.
> Water will be trapped at the elbows. Especially with copper pipes.
> Assuming you have some sort of bypass the best method is to first
> blow out all the lines. Then using a hand pump, pump the pink
stuff
> BACK from the faucets into the lines. For instance you can open
the
> bathroom faucet and pump from the kitchen faucet back to the
> bathroom. When pink stuff comes out of the bathroom faucet pump
from
> the bathroom faucet to the shower. finally you need to make sure
that
> pink stuff is in the lines from the bathroom to under the bed. You
> can manually open the check valve in the fresh water intake and
have
> some one pump from the bathroom till pink stuff comes out the
water
> intake. An alternate method is to disconnect the intake line at
the
> water pump and pump pink A/F to each faucet and toilet. Murphy's
law
> states that if a line is going to freeze it will be in the most
> inaccessable place!
>
> Bruce 1988 FC 35
>
Winterizing thread - Ralph L. Fullenwider - 06-15-2006 16:15
Ahh, the idiom of agreeing not to agree on something stands the age old
time respected value of men and women.
To infer that one would lead someone to false security is a little impotent
I should think. But then to not follow the directions of the subscribed
manner by a Manufacturer will, in fact, in this case, lead to frozen lines
and so forth.
One has to open the low water valve in the bath or in some instances the
kitchen area and to not open the spigot valve ( spigot valve is not the low
water point) to allow the water to drain from the piping with air, of
course the water is going to remain in the piping and freeze.
Another case in the point of air to remove water from a system, would be
draining the air tanks of air break systems. One opens a spigot on the
bottom of the air tank and let the air push the water out until there is no
longer a fine or any moisture, spray. From that observation, alone, one
must then conclude that the excess moisture has been removed.
One thing that we all agree on is that the water must be drained or removed
from the piping, or any device that holds water, in freeze areas.
Though I have only been in a few hundred Coaches, Bird's in fact, I do know
that each is made slightly different from any other, still, it remains that
air ( a gas under pressure) will move a solid (water, in it's liquid form)
out of the pipes, providing it has a place to escape to. I just trust the
systems and follow the directions. Use the pink stuff, of course, if that
works for a better feeling of well being, but run it through pipes that
have been cleared by air pressure. This of course, will alleviate any
problems with residual moisture. I or most techs, can actually winterize 10
Coaches with only 1 gallon of the antifreeze and be fully safe in doing so.
How that is done is to blow out the water in the prescribed manner, then
run in the antifreeze and follow that by blowing it out of the system as
well, collecting it on the out put side for the next application. This is
also done with the by pass on the water heater, which should have been
drained in any case.
Bottom line to everyone, do what you need to do to feel safe in
winterizing. Just remember to keep the anti freeze out of your water
heater, especially if it has an aluminium tank, this stuff will attach it
and destroy it over a period of time to a premature failure. And this was
my point in the beginning.
Gentlemen, let us not take this thread to the point of personal attacks,
but glean all of the information from it to protect the Coach systems.
Safe travels,
Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm
At 06:38 PM 6/15/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Ralph I respect your expertise but this time I believe both you and
>Bob did not hit the nail on the head, but instead may have given some
>owners a false security in believing that the BB way of winterizing
>the lines by blowing air thru them was foolproof. It is not. But as
>always when two people disagree I believe it best to describe why so
>it does not become a contest of expertise (for I have little) but
>instead can air out the differences so others can make their own
>decisions. If blowing air thru the lines ensured that all of the
>water was expelled then why are there so many coaches with frozen pipes?
>
>In the case of the 1982 FC35 with a side bath that I had there was
>NOT an outside spigot as you describe for the low water point of the
>system. Were you perhaps describing a rear bath coach? In my case
>the low point was supposed to be a valve under the bathroom sink that
>was parallel to the floor and that emptied thru the floor to the
>underside of the coach. But even if that were true it would not
>alter my disagreement that air is not a fool proof way to remove all
>of the water from the lines so that when the cold weather hits for
>even a single night you can GUARANTEE that even a single pipe will
>not freeze. Bluebird designed the fresh water system when winterizing
>with the air pressure method to first empty the hot water heater and
>the fresh water tank by flowing out the rear of the coach in the case
>of the hot water heater and in the case of the fresh water tank to
>flow to the lowest point which in my case was the valve underneath
>the bathroom cabinet. But again that point is only the low point if
>the coach is on a level surface. Even a slight uphill attitude of
>the front of the coach can cause the air to blow by the last of the
>water in the long lines which extend from the rear water heater on a
>Side bath coach to under the bathroom sink. When the air is shutoff
>the small risidual amount of water that is left in the bottom of the
>lines as the air blows over it, will flow backwards to the new lowest
>point and settles there ready to be frozen. And it will if the inside
>temperature falls below freezing.
> I have been lucky that my has not frozen and I have taken
>extraordinary precautions to ensure it did not. In the future I want
>to make it sure and fast when winterizing. I believe if it is
>possible that most will chose this method to relieve the doubts. I
>know I dont want to replace a copper line in my coach and cause even
>more problems with the new PEX line which undoubtably will not be
>perfectly straight and cause even more water to be trapped.
>
>With a hotwater bypass and a few other slight changes in the
>winterizing method I believe it is possible to completely winterize
>the system without the solution coming into contact with the fresh
>water or hot water tanks. In addition once winterized I want to be
>able to purge the solution by simply turning on the water pump and
>pumping fresh water into the system replacing the winterizing
>solution into the waste tanks. I did exactly that on my 1976 GMC
>motorhome and I will do the same on the 1985 PT 40 that I now own.
>
>If others are interested in doing it that way, and getting rid of the
>doubts of whether a pipe will freeze or not, then when mine is
>completed I will be glad to show others how to do it. If not then
>they may continue doing it the way they chose.
>
>Tom Warner
>Vernon Center,NY
>1985 PT 40
>At 01:22 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote:
>
> >Hello everyone:
> >
> >Bob's post hit the nail on the head on this subject.
> >
> > From the 80's Coaches on, a good system was built into the Bird's for
> >winterizing, and it works!
> >
> >Open the low water drain valve, open the out side spigot valve
> >usually found in the LP compartment.
> >
> >Then switch the water heater drain/fill switch to drain and switch on
> >the air blow out to supply air to the water heater/water lines/ pump
> >and so forth. Leave the air on until only air comes from the out side
> >spigot and shut the air switch to the off position. This will leave
> >some water in the filter/ice maker/and perhaps the acumulater. This
> >risidual water can be drained manually as per the manual in the blue
> >box. After that, switch the air drain switch to on one more time to
> >get any collected water from the pipes, and switch the air drain
> >switch off. Pour 1 quart of pink stuff in the P trap in the sinks and
> >shower and add some tot he holding tanks which should have been
> >drained first. Keep the pink stuff out of the water heater and you
> >really dont want it in your water filter either.
> >
> >Your done. Now then here is a fact on Birds. After blowing out the
> >water heater, there will be 2 quarts of water that remains in it.
> >This cannot be drained because the water level is below the drain of
> >the water heater. Even though this small amount of water is left in
> >the water heater, when it freezes there is expansion room in the
> >tank, so no worries there.
> >
> >All this is in your manuals.
> >
> >Ralph Fullenwider
> >RV Solutions in Oklahoma
> >
>
Winterizing thread - orbitalsolutions - 06-15-2006 16:49
Being one who's practice of winterizing is to head south, at the
slightest possibility of any freezing temps at my current location;
and not stoping to rest until there is no longer any possibile
threat, I thought I would have nothing of value to add to this
thread.
However, I will address the question regarding the thermal expansion
of matter.
Bob, you stated, "I believe that ice doesn't require any more space
be it 24 degrees F. or minus 24 degrees F."
You are correct. The frozen matter in question would be equal in
volume at either of the stated temps.
James
78FC33SB "Old School"
Tunica, MS.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "one_dusty_hoot"
>
> Maybe I have just been lucky? Maybe it has not been cold
> enough here? Maybe I took a little more care?
>
> I have opened the front door of a house and the entire
> living room ceiling had fallen to the floor, overhead
> plumbing and the owner turn off the heat.
>
> I have had to remove the siding from the back of a house
> to repair all the copper pipes damaged from freezing.
>
> Some winters, not all, it does get very cold here, enough
> so that an open foundation vent can burst copper in a
> heated house. And, I believe that ice doesn't require
> any more space be it 24 degees F. or minus 24 degrees F.
>
> I would lke a response please from someone who owned a
> Bluebird Motor Home, not SOB, not PO "said", YOU! and
> only YOU, who feel as though you did the job according
> to the manual, taking care to do everything right, had
> a broken pipe in their coach due to freezing.
>
> If you have had this happen I do hope you will not
> withold this information because of any guilt or
> embarasement for it has been said, you followed the
> instructions, and, it did not work.
>
> Thanks, Bob Janes, Greenville, SC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
>
> >
> > Although I am a new BB owner I feel I am more than qualified to
> jump
> > into this thread because: A: I have been RV'ng for 35 years B: I
> live
> > where it can and has reached minus 40 in the winter. C. We
> winterize
> > our summer cottage every fall.
> >
> > My experience has been that compressed air by itself is not
> enough.
> > Water will be trapped at the elbows. Especially with copper
pipes.
> > Assuming you have some sort of bypass the best method is to
first
> > blow out all the lines. Then using a hand pump, pump the pink
> stuff
> > BACK from the faucets into the lines. For instance you can open
> the
> > bathroom faucet and pump from the kitchen faucet back to the
> > bathroom. When pink stuff comes out of the bathroom faucet pump
> from
> > the bathroom faucet to the shower. finally you need to make sure
> that
> > pink stuff is in the lines from the bathroom to under the bed.
You
> > can manually open the check valve in the fresh water intake and
> have
> > some one pump from the bathroom till pink stuff comes out the
> water
> > intake. An alternate method is to disconnect the intake line at
> the
> > water pump and pump pink A/F to each faucet and toilet. Murphy's
> law
> > states that if a line is going to freeze it will be in the most
> > inaccessable place!
> >
> > Bruce 1988 FC 35
> >
>