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RE: Alternative to VMSPC - Ray Davis - 02-26-2013 12:58
One other note, to close up some loose ends here.
First, I have ordered the parts necessary to make cables that will talk to the older GM connector that I believe are used in a number of your buses.
Also, just to follow up, the second application, the DDec Decoder has been approved by Apple, and is now available in the App Store too.
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=605644367&mt=8
Although it's a free download, there is no demo mode on this app, so I don't know if it's worth downloading at this point without the hardware to make it functional. One thing, this is a universal app, which means it will run not only on an iPad, but also on an iPhone. It might even run on an iPod, however, I will admit, I've never tested in that fashion.
Thank you,
Ray
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - pgchin - 02-26-2013 13:56
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the follow up.
Well, I did my homework so here is my "report" and some questions when you have a chance.The 95-97 s60's indeed used a DDECIII. 98 or somewhere there about and above appears to be DDECIV on all s60's in birds.
I also have an optional Prodriver 18sp362. The ECU is running version 4.0 software level, rating version 11. ECM serial # sa60r6j1. I cannot find any references to "custom" Bluebird output in the diagnostic readout I have on the s60 so I presume if your beta testers were successful on this version of DDECIII software, it should work on our birds.
I was going to wait until I can get to the bird, as it is in storage, and attach a picture of the connector, that will be forthcoming in the next week or two.
Attached is the I/O page from my DECIII readout as well as the SAE fault codes they ship with our birds. I'm sure you have these, I just wanted you too see what they give us.
Questions:
- the issue you mentioned above about gear selection in DDEC III. Could it have anything to do with ECU software level / rating level?
- will the application "behave" well with an navigation product running simultaneously on the IPAD? For purposes of this discussion you should assume the latest WIFI/CELL IPAD with 132GB of memory!
I want my copilot to be able to navigate and watch the gauges so she can pull a little travel stress of me, scanning analog gauges continuously and driving is getting a bit old after decades and I ain't gett'in any younger!
- Range, how far can I take the IPAD away from the CANPOD? I'd like to be able to be outside the bus at the rear observing the engine with the IPAD in my hand if at all possible. Yeah, I know, metal bus........ just wonder'in what your beta testers reported. Also, where do most of your users place the CANPOD?
- I presume if we cannot get this thing to "hunt" on birds, you'll take the
equipment back. I DO NOT plan on waiting to test try. If you are willing to do so, I'll just order it and give you a CC # next month when I get the IPAD.
- My cell plan is up next month so all this will come together end of March when I order the new IPAD and associated personal infrastructure.
I'll attach the connector here when I get a pic and keep ya updated. Thanks for all the data and looking forward to doing this. If we are successful, I'll volunteer to beta test any future versions you may decide to embark on since you've offered us a generous discount and are very easy to work with!
Thanks again!
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - Ray Davis - 02-26-2013 14:49
First, thank you for the images. I will take a look, and see if my apps need updating. A little technical info. For the error codes, as per the SAE J1587 spec, I send a 00 message to the CAN bus, requesting data for PID 194.
PID 194 is the error codes. The units respond either with 194 messages, or 192 messages (which is an overlength, multi-message response).
In my experience so far, depending upon the DDEC, some respond with only engine error codes. Some respond with more. My bus, for example, responds with bus, brakes, instrument cluster and instrument cluster 2. If there are no errors, on my bus, these components report back with "no error" responses. I have never, unfortunately, seen in any of my error responses from testers an error from a transmission, either "no error" or any real error. I do get transmission messages, so I would hope that I would receive transmission based error codes.
Quote:issue with gear selectionI assume it is ECU level related. The newer buses I've worked with generally have this message. Older ones do not.
Quote:will it behave with navigation runningOne of my beta testers did indicate that he runs navigation apps in the background. However, I've never tested this way. One thing I've done in the app, perhaps a little non-standard, is that when you close the app, to go to another app, it does actually quit. I did this for a couple of reasons. (1) If for some reason the app got "hung up", I wanted a quit to clear it out of memory, such that restarting would start clean. (2) The data streaming by when you're not watching is not highly useful, in that there is no historic saving of the data, so if you're not watching, you're not seeing it. So, if your co-pilot is going to be using a navigation app at the same time, and going back and forth, the app simple restarts and starts streaming again when re-started. It takes about 2 seconds to get started and running.
If you have an iPad or can borrow one, I would suggest testing first, even in your car. Put the RV Dash app in demo mode. That runs for about 3 minutes, but is identical in function to working with the CANpod. If you're able to flip back and forth, then I would feel pretty good. Only thing I would worry about beyond that is the fact that the CANpod woudl be adhoc to a wifi network, and your navigation would be via the cellular. I will talk to the beta tester I mentioned, and see what he does.
Quote:range from canpodWith the antenna supplied, the range varies. I can easily step outside, but generally not back to the back of the bus. However, if I put the CANpod near the window, then the range is extended. The CANpod itself has a removable/changeable antenna. If you have a need to work at the back of the bus, perhaps a mag-mounted remote antenna would be better in that scenario?
Quote:return if it can't huntSure, I wouldn't want you to be stuck with a piece of equipment that doesn't work for you, and makes you unhappy. This is why I would certainly prefer to test on someones vehicle first, if possible. I would suggest that for first Wanderlodge tester, I will send you a unit, but not charge your credit card. You pay for shipping to your site (as would be normal). If it works, I charge your card. If it doesn't, you return it, and I'll eat the shipping back. That way, I don't eat the credit card charges, in case of a return.
I assume there's no chance you'll be in the Tacoma WA area in the next month?
Ray
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - pgchin - 02-26-2013 15:44
Quote: Sure, I wouldn't want you to be stuck with a piece of equipment that doesn't work for you, and makes you unhappy. This is why I would certainly prefer to test on someones vehicle first, if possible. I would suggest that for first Wanderlodge tester, I will send you a unit, but not charge your credit card. You pay for shipping to your site (as would be normal). If it works, I charge your card. If it doesn't, you return it, and I'll eat the shipping back. That way, I don't eat the credit card charges, in case of a return.
I assume there's no chance you'll be in the Tacoma WA area in the next month? Big Grin
OK Ray, good deal, and thanks for the answers, when you find out, please do let me know what your tester says about the Nav app. I'll try an borrow an IPAD from a buddy here and take your advice.
Tacoma, HUH...... gosh I WISH I could, but unfortunately I have a major chassis service item I need to perform and all of OUR chassis tests with the "docs" occur next month! Boy I wish I could, so we'll just do the mail thing if someone does not try and test before me.......connector pic coming..... ball's my court, thanks again!PS if you need more images / data to help you out, just let me know, I'm more than happy to supply what I have to help you with your app for all the communities you service!
PSS the way you explained the two apps is fine and workable, I have a Bose sound link II , so I can let the nav app yell at me and give me directions running in the background while Donna monitors the gauges, if she need to look at the map, she can just do as you say, quit the app and restart so it's no big deal, but I am curious as to what your beta tester does.
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - Ray Davis - 02-26-2013 16:10
Pete,
I spoke with my tester who used nav while using the gauges. I've given him a link to this forum, and asked if he would be willing to comment directly.
The fact that this worked, surprised me at first. In the earlier IOS releases, the iPad was generally locked to one network interface. If on wifi, then the cellular connection wasn't available. That seems to have changed around IOS 4 or 5? I experienced this first hand while driving to Vegas, that I was (while connected wifi to the CANpod), I was able to go out to the web, and send an email, without changing my network settings.
My tester, Fred told me, it just works. I will say, going back and forth, knowing how I wrote the app, the gauges would stop when you went over to the nav app, and when you came back, it would restart again. But, I'm guessing your idea of letting the nav app run in the background, with audio prompts should work fine.
I did have someone on another forum ask me if they could play songs in the iPod app in the background while running the gauges. I did try it, and it worked fine. I will say, decoding the data stream on-the-fly takes a lot of the processor resources, so I was a bit concerned. I would certainly suggest getting the fastest model if you want to run multiple apps with the RV Dash running. The iPad 4 would likely be the candidate at the moment.
ray
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - pgchin - 02-26-2013 16:30
(02-26-2013 16:10)Ray Davis Wrote: Pete,
I spoke with my tester who used nav while using the gauges. I've given him a link to this forum, and asked if he would be willing to comment directly.
The fact that this worked, surprised me at first. In the earlier IOS releases, the iPad was generally locked to one network interface. If on wifi, then the cellular connection wasn't available. That seems to have changed around IOS 4 or 5? I experienced this first hand while driving to Vegas, that I was (while connected wifi to the CANpod), I was able to go out to the web, and send an email, without changing my network settings.
My tester, Fred told me, it just works. I will say, going back and forth, knowing how I wrote the app, the gauges would stop when you went over to the nav app, and when you came back, it would restart again. But, I'm guessing your idea of letting the nav app run in the background, with audio prompts should work fine.
I did have someone on another forum ask me if they could play songs in the iPod app in the background while running the gauges. I did try it, and it worked fine. I will say, decoding the data stream on-the-fly takes a lot of the processor resources, so I was a bit concerned. I would certainly suggest getting the fastest model if you want to run multiple apps with the RV Dash running. The iPad 4 would likely be the candidate at the moment.
ray
Thanks Ray, perfect! EXACTLY what I wanted to hear!
I believe we are in business! I owe ya connector pics and type. I was hoping Apple's IOS development was far enough along to do what I wanted, glad one of your testers confirmed it! Yes the IPAD 4 with 132GB is the one I'm interested in, the A6X should be adequate. With theirs and their competitors current development cycles, you can "chase technology" forever and never buy anything!!!!!! As long as something gets the job done when I'm buying, I'm happy! Please let me know if you need any more images and again, THANK you for your attention and quick responses! You have a customer! :-)
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - pgchin - 03-02-2013 12:00
Ray,
I was able to get to the bus yesterday so attached please find pictures of the connector. I also have a set of blueprints for the bird I obtained from the factory so here is the data:
1) It's a Deustch Diagnostic connector PN HD10-6-96P
2) Diagnostic Pins (4 wires used)
B-goes to c1 on the ECM connector
A- goes to c2 on the ECM connector
C- goes to b3 on the ECM connector
E- black ground goes to black ground in the power harness connector
The prints also have an annotation noted saying that Diagnostic connector was a Detroit Diesel part # and harness DD part number ddc23513052. It appears they used a standard DD part so it should be the same as the Prevosts if they also used a standard DD part.
I know that connector works as I have printouts from DD, 1 image I already attached above. However the ground pin appears to be more recessed than the other 3 pins in the diagnostic connector ( see pic 3). Is yours like that also? Thanks!
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - Ray Davis - 03-02-2013 20:17
I am on the road right this minute, wife driving. But off-hand that sounds perfect. I will check it tonight or tomorrow when I arrive in WA and get back to you.
Ray
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - pgchin - 03-02-2013 20:40
(03-02-2013 20:17)Ray Davis Wrote: I am on the road right this minute, wife driving. But off-hand that sounds perfect. I will check it tonight or tomorrow when I arrive in WA and get back to you.
Ray
Ray,
No worries,PLEASE,no rush! Enjoy your trip and we'll make this happen! :-)
I just wanted you to have the data. Take care!
RE: Alternative to VMSPC - davidbrady - 03-02-2013 21:28
Hi Ray,
There's another thread where we're talking about adding monitoring to older non-electronic coaches: http://wanderlodgegurus.com/showthread.php?tid=121&pid=566#pid566 I volunteered RV Techtools as a possible end-user gui display device. It'd be great to get your comment over there on what we're attempting to put together. Thanks!