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refrigerator problems - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: refrigerator problems (/showthread.php?tid=1423) |
refrigerator problems - Tom Warner - 10-07-2005 17:22 Tim that would be nice if it were true but its not. You are quoting the energy star propoganda. It actually pulls over 1800 watts when the compressor starts. The hotter it got the more the compressor would run and it would quickly run your batteries down if you were not connected to a power source or on generator. The RV models are much more efficient having better insulation and more efficient methods of cooling. By the way how do you secure a regular refrigerator so it does not come flying out in a hard maneuver? tom 1982 FC35 vernon center,ny At 11:45 PM 10/7/2005, you wrote: >The 9.6 cu ft GE refrigerators annual electric usage is 338 kWh/year >or less than 1kWh/day (925 watts); it doesn't pull a constant 15- >amps. Shouldn't be much of a load for a good inverter and battery >bank. > >Good luck > >Tim Hannink >Winter Park, FL >1981 FC-33SB > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner >wrote: > > > > Doesnt sound good to me unless you are going to park in a RV park > > every night and when you are on the road have a large battery bank > > and large alternator. The small 9 cu ft Ge refrigerator with a >manual > > defrost pulls 15A at 120VAC when running or 1800Watts. Thats 150A > > from your batteries. > > > > Tom > > 1982 Fc35 > > Vernon Center,NY > > > > > > > > >SPONSORED LINKS ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+vehi\ cles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=\ Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=DAUkCKkU7Dzhn_\ ObWmSYTw>Recreational >vehicles ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wa\ nderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=Used+recre\ ational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-8HJdysB3QLPj9U0JvqYQ>W\ anderlodge ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Recreational+veh\ icles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5\ =Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=IF4u_5wI8Pmy3\ 4cC1O9CxA>Automotive >maintenance ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreationa\ l+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+deal\ er&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=z6_Xahae\ YHfELr6o72IW1A>Recreational >vehicle dealer ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational\ +vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+deale\ r&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=UGEY5km4L\ -kXbDI4ZSadEw>Used >recreational vehicles ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+vehic\ les&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=U\ sed+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=ePNVMmISsCWgTnM\ q_4GlXA>Automotive >radiators > > >---------- >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group > "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum" on the web. > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >---------- refrigerator problems - erniecarpet@... - 10-07-2005 20:14 We secured my refer by screwing it to the floor and by adjusting the top shelf to fit tightly. The sidewalls were measured and adjusted so that we made a real tight fit. This unit made it fine from Texas to Montana- 1650 miles- over the "best" highways in the country! Incidentally, I have installed 2 other apartment refers in my other coaches. Since those were SOB coaches, they did not ride as well as the bird and the refers stayed in place. Ernie-83pt40 in montana- with a 400 dollar refer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] refrigerator problems - Julia Bonser - 10-08-2005 02:37 We replaced our refrigerator last month with an apartment sized refrigerator figuring we would run the generator if we dry camped. This unit uses a lot less electricity than the RV one. The biggest problem was getting it in through the front door. Julie Bonser 1992 WLWB PT 40' On Oct 7, 2005, at 7:02 PM, Rob Robinson wrote: > Thanks Ernie. that's the info I needed. > Rob, Sue & Merlin > 94 WLWB > > > Quoting erniecarpet@...: > > >> >> >> >> >> Rob, its 120 volt- no problem with the batteries. we don't dry >> camp, so no >> >> problem for us. If its hot out, we run the genny for the a/c's >> anyway. >> Ernie- >> >> 83pt40- beside the yellowstone river >> > refrigerator problems - Tim Hannink - 10-08-2005 02:47 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote: > > Tim that would be nice if it were true but its not. You are quoting > the energy star propoganda. It actually pulls over 1800 watts when > the compressor starts. The hotter it got the more the compressor > would run and it would quickly run your batteries down if you were > not connected to a power source or on generator. The RV models are > much more efficient having better insulation and more efficient > methods of cooling. Please don't accuse me of disseminating false information unless you have something besides your own opinion to back up your statement. Yes, a refrigerator uses a large amount of starting current but the average 18 cu ft frost-free fridge uses 750-watts when running and it runs approximately 1/3 of the time it is plugged in. Information on the power usage of appliances is available all over the internet from government sources, power utilities and appliance manufacturers, so take your pick and do your own research. > By the way how do you secure a regular refrigerator so it does not > come flying out in a hard maneuver? The same way an RV refrigerator is secured. Install a piece of angle channel to the top and sides of the fridge and screw it to the opening. I would also add additional rigid insulation to the walls of the refrigerator compartment to fill in the gap between the sides of the fridge and the compartment walls. Good luck Tim Hannink Winter Park, FL 1981 FC-33SB refrigerator problems - Rob Robinson - 10-08-2005 03:17 Tim I know Randy Dupree has a double door monster in his Bird that is 120V only. If I remember correctly he can use his fridge without hook up to city power for four or five days. He has six of those forklift L16 batteries and a sophisticated electrical management system. Rob, Sue & Merlin 94 WLWB Quoting Tim Hannink > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner > > wrote: > > > > > > Tim that would be nice if it were true but its not. You are > > quoting > > > the energy star propoganda. It actually pulls over 1800 watts when > > > the compressor starts. The hotter it got the more the compressor > > > would run and it would quickly run your batteries down if you were > > > not connected to a power source or on generator. The RV models are > > > much more efficient having better insulation and more efficient > > > methods of cooling. > > > > Please don't accuse me of disseminating false information unless you > > have something besides your own opinion to back up your statement. > > > > Yes, a refrigerator uses a large amount of starting current but the > > average 18 cu ft frost-free fridge uses 750-watts when running and > > it runs approximately 1/3 of the time it is plugged in. > > > > Information on the power usage of appliances is available all over > > the internet from government sources, power utilities and appliance > > manufacturers, so take your pick and do your own research. > > > > > By the way how do you secure a regular refrigerator so it does not > > > come flying out in a hard maneuver? > > > > The same way an RV refrigerator is secured. Install a piece of angle > > channel to the top and sides of the fridge and screw it to the > > opening. I would also add additional rigid insulation to the walls > > of the refrigerator compartment to fill in the gap between the sides > > of the fridge and the compartment walls. > > > > Good luck > > > > Tim Hannink > > Winter Park, FL > > 1981 FC-33SB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > refrigerator problems - George Lowry - 10-08-2005 03:22 Getting into the middle of this - I just checked the Amana 19 Cu Ft refer that came standard in my coach. It has the ice maker/ice water and is frost free. The data plate says it uses 9.8 amps @ 120 volts. We have never had a problem while traveling or when parked, though we do have a large battery bank which would be required in ANY all electric coach. I know that we can cut energy consumption by turning off the frost free feature but, the boss likes it. BTW, in our converted coach, we had an electric Norcold 8 Cu Ft refer and it only pulled 2.5 amps @ 120 volts and 9 amps at 12 volts. We drove it for over ten years without any problems also. BTW, we spend some time in Quartzsite boondocking as well as other places. It can be done. George Lowry '95 WBDA 4203 Spearfish, SD Currently in NORCAL for Dr Appointments. Tim Hannink wrote: > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner > wrote: > >>Tim that would be nice if it were true but its not. You are > > quoting > >>the energy star propoganda. It actually pulls over 1800 watts when >>the compressor starts. The hotter it got the more the compressor >>would run and it would quickly run your batteries down if you were >>not connected to a power source or on generator. The RV models are >>much more efficient having better insulation and more efficient >>methods of cooling. > > > Please don't accuse me of disseminating false information unless you > have something besides your own opinion to back up your statement. > > Yes, a refrigerator uses a large amount of starting current but the > average 18 cu ft frost-free fridge uses 750-watts when running and > it runs approximately 1/3 of the time it is plugged in. > > Information on the power usage of appliances is available all over > the internet from government sources, power utilities and appliance > manufacturers, so take your pick and do your own research. > > >>By the way how do you secure a regular refrigerator so it does not >>come flying out in a hard maneuver? > > > The same way an RV refrigerator is secured. Install a piece of angle > channel to the top and sides of the fridge and screw it to the > opening. I would also add additional rigid insulation to the walls > of the refrigerator compartment to fill in the gap between the sides > of the fridge and the compartment walls. > > Good luck > > Tim Hannink > Winter Park, FL > 1981 FC-33SB > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > refrigerator problems - Gregory OConnor - 10-08-2005 05:11 Refrigerator Topic gets HOT .Tim and Tom, the two of you provide all of us a great wealth of information on many topics in the past.It is quite obvious that you both are very intelligent and helpful people. On these forums we learn actual first hand info from "I tried that and" type of experiances. Please continue the heated discussion as the good helpful friends you two are to all of us. Dry camp, full hook up Walmart parkers, average lenth of trip, and how many sixpacks you need to keep cool are all factors that must be considered in your reefer upgrade. Tim, when do you rely on government sources, power utilities and appliance manufacturers for information? Tom, "energy star propoganda", ? its an advertisment Gregory O'Connor 94pt40 with a cold sixpack of diet pepsi and Miller Gen Draft, mustard , 1/2 used relish jar and ice in the freezer --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Hannink" > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner > wrote: > > > > Tim that would be nice if it were true but its not. You are > quoting > > the energy star propoganda. It actually pulls over 1800 watts when > > the compressor starts. The hotter it got the more the compressor > > would run and it would quickly run your batteries down if you were > > not connected to a power source or on generator. The RV models are > > much more efficient having better insulation and more efficient > > methods of cooling. > > Please don't accuse me of disseminating false information unless you > have something besides your own opinion to back up your statement. > > Yes, a refrigerator uses a large amount of starting current but the > average 18 cu ft frost-free fridge uses 750-watts when running and > it runs approximately 1/3 of the time it is plugged in. > > Information on the power usage of appliances is available all over > the internet from government sources, power utilities and appliance > manufacturers, so take your pick and do your own research. > > > By the way how do you secure a regular refrigerator so it does not > > come flying out in a hard maneuver? > > The same way an RV refrigerator is secured. Install a piece of angle > channel to the top and sides of the fridge and screw it to the > opening. I would also add additional rigid insulation to the walls > of the refrigerator compartment to fill in the gap between the sides > of the fridge and the compartment walls. > > Good luck > > Tim Hannink > Winter Park, FL > 1981 FC-33SB > refrigerator problems - Tim Hannink - 10-08-2005 07:13 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor" > Tim, when do you rely on government sources, power utilities and > appliance manufacturers for information? I rely on those information sources as a consumer when shopping for products. FWIW, I am the type of person who will read the owners manual for a product before I purchase it. Just looking at the information on the product itself is not enough; it represents the worst-case or maximum output scenario in most cases. That's why the other tag is on an appliance, the one that shows the amount of energy used by this appliance in a year. It factors in the starting and running current for the appliance as well is the cycling time to give you a number you can use for comparison purposes. Other factors, quality of design and materials, e.g. also show themselves in this number when it is compared to a similar product from a different manufacturer. I got the energy usage data for this particular GE refrigerator from the manufacturers website. AFAIK, this appliance is not "Energy Star" rated so I'm not sure how that even applies to this discussion. Thanks, Tim Hannink Winter Park, FL 1981 FC-33SB refrigerator problems - Tom Warner - 10-08-2005 09:14 Tim its difficult to understand where you are coming from since you use numbers like 750 watts and 1/3 of the time etc but don't say where you got this information from. But to set the record straight I did not accuse you of disseminating false information. So lets discuss just 2 facts. 1. The energy guide numbers noted on appliances are seldom accurate. Where do I get that? http://tinyurl.com/8fd8z Understand the Energy Guide and Energy Star labels. The Energy Guide tag you'll see on dishwashers is meant to show how much water and energy a particular model is likely to use. However, Consumer Reports tests have found that those numbers tend to underestimate real-life consumption. Likely reason for this discrepancy: The government tests with cleaner dishes than we do and assumes that consumers run fewer than 322 loads per year. The Energy Star labeling program cites dishwashers that are 25 percent more energy efficient than the minimum government standards. Consumer Reports doesn't highlight which models carry the Energy Star label but bases its dishwasher ratings on its own, more rigorous testing. See the <http://www.eco-labels.org/greenconsumers/ratings.cfm?product=dishwasher>Green Ratings section. 2. Almost all refrigerators manufactured today ARE energy star rated. Where did I get that from? http://tinyurl.com/bn2qx Energy Star According to the government, As of January 1, 2004, all refrigerators and refrigerator-freezers 7.75 cubic feet or greater in volume must be 15% more efficient than required by the minimum federal standard in order to meet the Energy Star criteria. Residential freezers 7.75 cubic feet or greater must be 10% more efficient than required by the minimum federal standard in order to meet the Energy Star criteria. All refrigerators and/or freezers less than 7.75 cubic feet in volume and 36 inches or less in height must be 20% more efficient than required by the minimum federal standard in order to meet the Energy Star criteria . Now the bottom line and this is my opinion contemplating buying a motorhome such as a Bluebird I would immediately shy away from anyone that had a regular household refrigerator installed, for two reasons. 1. I would figure that the person who had installed it, is attempting to save money and if they saved money on a refrigerator they might be doing the same thing on the coaches maintenance. 2, I want a refrigerator that is economical and efficient to operate when boon docking. In other words I want one that can be operated on propane, battery or 120VAC without running my generator for long periods of time. And the addition of large expensive battery banks with associated chargers/inverters is not economical or desirous in my opinion. But then this is my personal preference and it may differ from yours. Tom Warner 1982 FC35 Vernon Center,NY At 10:47 AM 10/8/2005, you wrote: >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner >wrote: > > > > Tim that would be nice if it were true but its not. You are >quoting > > the energy star propoganda. It actually pulls over 1800 watts when > > the compressor starts. The hotter it got the more the compressor > > would run and it would quickly run your batteries down if you were > > not connected to a power source or on generator. The RV models are > > much more efficient having better insulation and more efficient > > methods of cooling. > >Please don't accuse me of disseminating false information unless you >have something besides your own opinion to back up your statement. > >Yes, a refrigerator uses a large amount of starting current but the >average 18 cu ft frost-free fridge uses 750-watts when running and >it runs approximately 1/3 of the time it is plugged in. > >Information on the power usage of appliances is available all over >the internet from government sources, power utilities and appliance >manufacturers, so take your pick and do your own research. > > > By the way how do you secure a regular refrigerator so it does not > > come flying out in a hard maneuver? > >The same way an RV refrigerator is secured. Install a piece of angle >channel to the top and sides of the fridge and screw it to the >opening. I would also add additional rigid insulation to the walls >of the refrigerator compartment to fill in the gap between the sides >of the fridge and the compartment walls. > >Good luck > >Tim Hannink >Winter Park, FL >1981 FC-33SB > > > > > > >---------- >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group > "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum" on the web. > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >---------- refrigerator problems - Tim Hannink - 10-08-2005 12:09 OK, I'll bite. My replys will be interspaced between your comments --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote: > > Tim its difficult to understand where you are coming from since you > use numbers like 750 watts and 1/3 of the time etc but don't say > where you got this information from. <http://www.psnh.com/Residential/ReduceBill/Applianceusage.asp> <http://www.otpco.com/SaveEnergyMoney/applianceEnergyUsage.asp> <http://www.city.ames.ia.us/ElectricWeb/energyguy/appliances.htm> Those were three that came up in a Yahoo!Search for 'Appliance Energy Usage' > But to set the record straight > I did not accuse you of disseminating false information. > > So lets discuss just 2 facts. > > 1. The energy guide numbers noted on appliances are seldom > accurate. Where do I get that? http://tinyurl.com/8fd8z > > Understand the Energy Guide and Energy Star labels. The Energy > Guide tag you'll see on dishwashers is meant to show how much water > and energy a particular model is likely to use. However, Consumer > Reports tests have found that those numbers tend to underestimate > real-life consumption. Likely reason for this discrepancy: The > government tests with cleaner dishes than we do and assumes that > consumers run fewer than 322 loads per year. The Energy Star labeling > program cites dishwashers that are 25 percent more energy efficient > than the minimum government standards. Consumer Reports doesn't > highlight which models carry the Energy Star label but bases its > dishwasher ratings on its own, more rigorous testing. See the > <http://www.eco-labels.org/greenconsumers/ratings.cfm? product=dishwasher>Green > Ratings section. Hmmm, dishwashers vs refrigerators. I went to the refrigerator section of that same website and didn't see the same opinion on their ratings for refrigerators. Did I miss something? > 2. Almost all refrigerators manufactured today ARE energy star rated. That may (or may not) be true, but the GE model I found that most closely matched the one we were talking about was here: <http://products.geappliances.com/ProdContent/Dispatcher? REQUEST=ITEMID&itemid=310805_gms10aar_c2> The EnergyGuide sticker is here: <http://products.geappliances.com/ProdContent/Dispatcher? REQUEST=ITEMID&itemid=GMS10AAR> No EnergyStar qualification here. > Where did I get that from? http://tinyurl.com/bn2qx This link wouldn't work for me. Here is a link to the Energy Star website <http://www.energystar.gov/> and a definition of what it takes to have an refrigerator Energy Star Qualified. Just for fun, I went to the GE website <http://www.geappliances.com> and did a little research. Out of 140 side-by-side refrigerators, 87 are Energy Star Qualified Out of 6 side-by-side built-in refrigerators, 6 are Energy Star Qualified Out of 90 top freezer refrigerators, 25 are Energy Star Qualified Out of 43 bottom freezer refrigerators, 37 are Energy Star Qualified None of the 7 compact or the 2 partial and manual defrost refrigerators are Energy Star Qualified. I guess it depends on your definition of "almost all" > Energy Star > According to the government, As of January 1, 2004, all refrigerators > and refrigerator-freezers 7.75 cubic feet or greater in volume must > be 15% more efficient than required by the minimum federal standard > in order to meet the Energy Star criteria. Residential freezers 7.75 > cubic feet or greater must be 10% more efficient than required by the > minimum federal standard in order to meet the Energy Star criteria. > All refrigerators and/or freezers less than 7.75 cubic feet in volume > and 36 inches or less in height must be 20% more efficient than > required by the minimum federal standard in order to meet the Energy > Star criteria . > > Now the bottom line and this is my opinion > contemplating buying a motorhome such as a Bluebird I would > immediately shy away from anyone that had a regular household > refrigerator installed, for two reasons. > > 1. I would figure that the person who had installed it, is attempting > to save money and if they saved money on a refrigerator they might be > doing the same thing on the coaches maintenance. I can think of a lot of other items I would look at before the refrigerator to determine the maintenance level of the coach. Mine actually came with a 12-VDC marine fridge (NovaKool) which will run for a week on my aux. batteries. It performs well as a refrigerator but marginally as a freezer. It uses a 12-vdc Danforth compressor and R-134a. My personal experiences with Dometic 3-way refrigerators (especially the propane-way) has not been positive (VW Campers). The two-way Dometic (12VDC/120VAC) in my current Camper is excellent. > 2, I want a refrigerator that is economical and efficient to operate > when boon docking. In other words I want one that can be operated on > propane, battery or 120VAC without running my generator for long > periods of time. And the addition of large expensive battery banks > with associated chargers/inverters is not economical or desirous in > my opinion. But then this is my personal preference and it may differ > from yours. True, my coach already has separate house and chassis batteries; I have added battery isolation and an inverter/charger. The primary reason was to run the rear roof air without running the genset. |