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+--- Thread: Thinking of joining the birders! (/showthread.php?tid=4490)
Pages: 1 2
Thinking of joining the birders! - ac7880 - 03-14-2007 13:44
I quote: "but cooled off. A retired dealer with whom we did business
twice (for our first 84-35FC and a 1986 Newell Classic) nearly came
unglued when I brought it up. He was a longtime Blue Bird dealer in
the 70s and 80s. I have since found out some things about the LX."
That says it all. You took one man's word, and now spread that as
the truth. A dealer ALWAYS has a agenda. The real truth lies in
research, from multiple sources, and experts like you find on this
and other Bluebird websites.
Dan
1994 Bluebird BMC 37' steel roof and sides, fiberglass front and rear
cap, fiberglass storage doors - just like late model wanderlodges,
and no, it does not have the M11 Cummins (I wish this 37 foot had the
450 HP you say it has).
Regards,
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "brad barton"
<bbartonwx@...> wrote:
>
> Ralph,
> I bow to your command of detail on the BMC and LX bodies. I know
the cargo
> doors were fiberglass, but it was my mistake about the fiberglass
bodies.
> As I said, an LX is still better than most coaches, but BB's
manipulation of
> quality and amenities among various Wanderlodges makes it hard for
LX owners
> to get what they think is a fair price for their coach. Again, the
coach in
> Michigan listed on RVTrader is the nicest I've seen.
> Brad Barton
>
>
> >From: "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
> >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Thinking of joining the
birders!
> >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:28:45 -0600
> >
> >
> >
> >Interesting analogy with some truths but fiberglass bodies? no.
> >
> >Truth, the Wanderlodge II was a striped down model that what once
was OE
> >became options. things like HWH jacks and many others.
> >
> >Starting in '88 with the advent of wide body, the front and rear
caps were
> >fiberglass but the side and roof were steel.
> >
> >The BMC, true is not a Wanderlodge, however the sides and roof are
steel,
> >though I think, not sure, that the compartment doors were fiber
glass.
> >
> >The LX, fiberglass caps that started in '88 but sides and roof are
steel,
> >as are the LXI.
> >
> >The M 380 was not fiberglass but a composite aluminium, 2 sheets of
> >aluminium with a composite center. The main problem with the 380
was the
> >skin would grow and shrink with heat and cold, thus the sides would
> >wrinkle. Yes there were a few problems with the electrical but the
lay out
> >of the panel was done right for a change. The main problem with the
> >electrical we the marriage between the slide and HWH jack system
via the
> >micro p[rocesser. If the Coach was not level, the microprocessor
would not
> >allow the slide to move, so the computer had to be reset, jacks
retracted
> >and start the system again. There was also a problem of the slide
locks
> >pulling, going down the road, this was usually caused by a mis
adjusted
> >micro switch.
> >
> >The LX 450 got away form most of that and went to stainless steel
and
> >introduced multiplexing of systems with a beefed up microprocessor.
> >
> >The myth of the LX model being fiberglass came from the mid year
change in,
> >what? 2002 or 2003 where the skin was taken to the composite used
on the M
> >380 and was the test bed for the 380.
> >
> >There was nothing cheap about all of this, the R&D alone had to
cost a
> >bundle because of the change, it is just too bad that the skin
problems on
> >the 380 were not better thought out.
> >
> >Also with the 380 the signature of the Wanderlodge took it's major
hit, the
> >"goat rails" were missing, and to my thinking, this was and is the
largest
> >mistake BB could have made. Now they look like the Monaco's and
various
> >other Manufacturers Coaches.
> >
> >No, the LX and LXI models are good stable units, though a bit too
glitzy
> >inside for my taste. I don't go camping to clean mirrors on the
ceilings.
> >
> >
> >Just my 2 cents
> >
> >Safe travels,
> >
> >Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> >84FC35
> >Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "brad barton"
> > > ><bbartonwx@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Damien,
> > > > > I'm new to the group, but a longtime Blue Bird fan. I
think the
> > > >coach you
> > > > > are looking at is a black and silver coach with modern
decor..and
> > > >it's at a
> > > > > truck dealer. We were considering an LX but cooled off. A
retired
> > > >dealer
> > > > > with whom we did business twice (for our first 84-35FC and
a 1986
> > > >Newell
> > > > > Classic) nearly came unglued when I brought it up. He was a
> > > >longtime Blue
> > > > > Bird dealer in the 70s and 80s. I have since found out
some things
> > > >about
> > > > > the LX. You're free to accept or reject all of this but I
believe
> > > >it is
> > > > > true. Most of it came from a Blue Bird rep I spoke to just
weeks
> > > >ago.
> > > > > Blue Bird has constantly searched for ways to a lower price
point.
> > > >The
> > > > > WanderlodgeII was the first attempt..and pretty sad. Then
as
> > > >Wanderlodges
> > > > > got more expensive, Blue Bird looked for a new approach.
Their
> > > >engineers
> > > > > said it would take two years to come up with a less
expensive 37-
> > > >40'
> > > > > chassis, so they bought Spartan chassis with Cummins M11
engines.
> > > >They were
> > > > > known as a Blue Bird Motor Coach..or a BMC. The only thing
Blue
> > > >Bird on it
> > > > > was the dash and the label. The BMC is NOT a Wanderlodge.
Not
> > > >bad, just
> > > > > cheap. By the time those chassis ran out, the engineers
had a new
> > > >40'
> > > > > platform. They kept the fiberglass body, put new caps on
front and
> > > >rear,
> > > > > kept the Cummins engine but used their own superior Blue
Bird
> > > >chassis with
> > > > > Ridewell air suspension. Of all the "cheep" Birds, the LX
is
> > > >probably the
> > > > > best. But it's still fiberglass outside, virtually no
chrome,
> > > >ultraleather
> > > > > vinyl inside, smaller in tank capacity, lacking in design,
> > > >especially around
> > > > > the windows and roughly $150,000 in overall quality, fit and
> > > >finish. We bit
> > > > > the bullet and moved on to the LXi and we're very glad we
did.
> > > > > LX owners asking 165K and up don't like to hear their coach
is only
> > > >little
> > > > > more than "half" bird, but the truth hurts. NADA book
prices on
> > > >the 2000 LX
> > > > > are very harsh..upper 90's to 110's. LX owners have every
right to
> > > >feel
> > > > > bitter, but as a buyer, I asked several dealers (who had
nothing to
> > > >gain
> > > > > from me) what they would offer. One said 95K, one said
110K and
> > > >the one
> > > > > whole actually knew the actual coach said 150K was a serious
> > > >stretch. Not
> > > > > only are LX owners unhappy, but WBPT and LXi owners are
mad, too
> > > >because
> > > > > their own manufacturer made it harder for them to sell
their high-
> > > >dollar
> > > > > coaches. And Blue Bird has done it again..most recently
wiith the
> > > >M380
> > > > > which was a disaster (Blue Bird rep's word). I can't
confirm it,
> > > >but I
> > > > > heard every one of them was recalled for various problems,
mainly
> > > >electrical
> > > > > and wiring. They are not made any longer except by special
order.
> > > > > All that being said, there's nothing wrong with a Cummins M-
11 or
> > > >Allison
> > > > > 4060, or Ultraleather or fiberglass, for that matter. Just
make
> > > >sure you
> > > > > understand it's not the steel-bodied full-fledged
Wanderlodge most
> > > >of us
> > > > > think of. A poor man's Wanderlodge LX is probably still a
lot
> > > >better than
> > > > > most coaches, new or used. If you want the best LX
currently on
> > > >the market,
> > > > > look at this coach. It's garaged in Michigan and virtually
> > > >pristine. Nice
> > > > > people, too.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rvtrader.com/rvdetail519280.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > BBarton in Dallas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "remiksjewelry"
> > > > > >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Thinking of joining the
birders!
> > > > > >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:33:14 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hello -
> > > > > >Thanks for having this group! We currently have a Safari
Trek and
> > > >are
> > > > > >looking into upgrading to a Bluebird. We found one we
like - it
> > > >is a
> > > > > >2000 LX Millenium edition. It is for sale in Maryland.
Does any
> > > >know
> > > > > >anything about this particular coach? The price seems
right, but
> > > >we
> > > > > >would have to travel quite a distance to see it for
ourselves.
> > > >Also,
> > > > > >would love to know about the ride and handling of a bird.
> > > > > >Is the M11 450 cummings a reliable engine?
> > > > > >Any comments or advice will be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > >Thanks!
> > > > > >Damien
> > > > > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these
few
> simple tips.
>
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/Preparation
Tips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline
>
Thinking of joining the birders! - brad barton - 03-14-2007 15:20
Dan,
You may not have seen my mea culpa to Ralph who corrected me on the steel
bodies.
I didn't take just one man's word for the truth. I spoke with one retired
dealer, three active dealers, one sales manager and a consignment expert.
Some knew Blue Bird from the inside, others from the outside. They all said
roughly the same thing, that Blue Bird never did consistently well in
down-pricing their coaches. If they had found the right formula in
WanderlodgeII, BMC, LX or M380, they'd probably still be doing it. I also
spent some time with a Blue Bird rep a couple weeks ago who went through the
litany of Blue Bird's internal struggles with the engineers, forcing them to
cut corners to lower the cost and expand their market share. I obviously
misunderstood what he told me about body construction. I also forgot the
37's came with the 300 Cummins as well as the larger engines. Please don't
get the idea that I'm down-rating BMC's or LX's. They are what they are and
I'll leave it at that. No offense intended.
Brad
>From: "ac7880"
>Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Thinking of joining the birders!
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:44:52 -0000
>
>I quote: "but cooled off. A retired dealer with whom we did business
>twice (for our first 84-35FC and a 1986 Newell Classic) nearly came
>unglued when I brought it up. He was a longtime Blue Bird dealer in
>the 70s and 80s. I have since found out some things about the LX."
>
>That says it all. You took one man's word, and now spread that as
>the truth. A dealer ALWAYS has a agenda. The real truth lies in
>research, from multiple sources, and experts like you find on this
>and other Bluebird websites.
>
>Dan
>1994 Bluebird BMC 37' steel roof and sides, fiberglass front and rear
>cap, fiberglass storage doors - just like late model wanderlodges,
>and no, it does not have the M11 Cummins (I wish this 37 foot had the
>450 HP you say it has).
>
>Regards,
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "brad barton"
><bbartonwx@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ralph,
> > I bow to your command of detail on the BMC and LX bodies. I know
>the cargo
> > doors were fiberglass, but it was my mistake about the fiberglass
>bodies.
> > As I said, an LX is still better than most coaches, but BB's
>manipulation of
> > quality and amenities among various Wanderlodges makes it hard for
>LX owners
> > to get what they think is a fair price for their coach. Again, the
>coach in
> > Michigan listed on RVTrader is the nicest I've seen.
> > Brad Barton
> >
> >
> > >From: "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
> > >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Thinking of joining the
>birders!
> > >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:28:45 -0600
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Interesting analogy with some truths but fiberglass bodies? no.
> > >
> > >Truth, the Wanderlodge II was a striped down model that what once
>was OE
> > >became options. things like HWH jacks and many others.
> > >
> > >Starting in '88 with the advent of wide body, the front and rear
>caps were
> > >fiberglass but the side and roof were steel.
> > >
> > >The BMC, true is not a Wanderlodge, however the sides and roof are
>steel,
> > >though I think, not sure, that the compartment doors were fiber
>glass.
> > >
> > >The LX, fiberglass caps that started in '88 but sides and roof are
>steel,
> > >as are the LXI.
> > >
> > >The M 380 was not fiberglass but a composite aluminium, 2 sheets of
> > >aluminium with a composite center. The main problem with the 380
>was the
> > >skin would grow and shrink with heat and cold, thus the sides would
> > >wrinkle. Yes there were a few problems with the electrical but the
>lay out
> > >of the panel was done right for a change. The main problem with the
> > >electrical we the marriage between the slide and HWH jack system
>via the
> > >micro p[rocesser. If the Coach was not level, the microprocessor
>would not
> > >allow the slide to move, so the computer had to be reset, jacks
>retracted
> > >and start the system again. There was also a problem of the slide
>locks
> > >pulling, going down the road, this was usually caused by a mis
>adjusted
> > >micro switch.
> > >
> > >The LX 450 got away form most of that and went to stainless steel
>and
> > >introduced multiplexing of systems with a beefed up microprocessor.
> > >
> > >The myth of the LX model being fiberglass came from the mid year
>change in,
> > >what? 2002 or 2003 where the skin was taken to the composite used
>on the M
> > >380 and was the test bed for the 380.
> > >
> > >There was nothing cheap about all of this, the R&D alone had to
>cost a
> > >bundle because of the change, it is just too bad that the skin
>problems on
> > >the 380 were not better thought out.
> > >
> > >Also with the 380 the signature of the Wanderlodge took it's major
>hit, the
> > >"goat rails" were missing, and to my thinking, this was and is the
>largest
> > >mistake BB could have made. Now they look like the Monaco's and
>various
> > >other Manufacturers Coaches.
> > >
> > >No, the LX and LXI models are good stable units, though a bit too
>glitzy
> > >inside for my taste. I don't go camping to clean mirrors on the
>ceilings.
> > >
> > >
> > >Just my 2 cents
> > >
> > >Safe travels,
> > >
> > >Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > >84FC35
> > >Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "brad barton"
> > > > ><bbartonwx@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Damien,
> > > > > > I'm new to the group, but a longtime Blue Bird fan. I
>think the
> > > > >coach you
> > > > > > are looking at is a black and silver coach with modern
>decor..and
> > > > >it's at a
> > > > > > truck dealer. We were considering an LX but cooled off. A
>retired
> > > > >dealer
> > > > > > with whom we did business twice (for our first 84-35FC and
>a 1986
> > > > >Newell
> > > > > > Classic) nearly came unglued when I brought it up. He was a
> > > > >longtime Blue
> > > > > > Bird dealer in the 70s and 80s. I have since found out
>some things
> > > > >about
> > > > > > the LX. You're free to accept or reject all of this but I
>believe
> > > > >it is
> > > > > > true. Most of it came from a Blue Bird rep I spoke to just
>weeks
> > > > >ago.
> > > > > > Blue Bird has constantly searched for ways to a lower price
>point.
> > > > >The
> > > > > > WanderlodgeII was the first attempt..and pretty sad. Then
>as
> > > > >Wanderlodges
> > > > > > got more expensive, Blue Bird looked for a new approach.
>Their
> > > > >engineers
> > > > > > said it would take two years to come up with a less
>expensive 37-
> > > > >40'
> > > > > > chassis, so they bought Spartan chassis with Cummins M11
>engines.
> > > > >They were
> > > > > > known as a Blue Bird Motor Coach..or a BMC. The only thing
>Blue
> > > > >Bird on it
> > > > > > was the dash and the label. The BMC is NOT a Wanderlodge.
>Not
> > > > >bad, just
> > > > > > cheap. By the time those chassis ran out, the engineers
>had a new
> > > > >40'
> > > > > > platform. They kept the fiberglass body, put new caps on
>front and
> > > > >rear,
> > > > > > kept the Cummins engine but used their own superior Blue
>Bird
> > > > >chassis with
> > > > > > Ridewell air suspension. Of all the "cheep" Birds, the LX
>is
> > > > >probably the
> > > > > > best. But it's still fiberglass outside, virtually no
>chrome,
> > > > >ultraleather
> > > > > > vinyl inside, smaller in tank capacity, lacking in design,
> > > > >especially around
> > > > > > the windows and roughly $150,000 in overall quality, fit and
> > > > >finish. We bit
> > > > > > the bullet and moved on to the LXi and we're very glad we
>did.
> > > > > > LX owners asking 165K and up don't like to hear their coach
>is only
> > > > >little
> > > > > > more than "half" bird, but the truth hurts. NADA book
>prices on
> > > > >the 2000 LX
> > > > > > are very harsh..upper 90's to 110's. LX owners have every
>right to
> > > > >feel
> > > > > > bitter, but as a buyer, I asked several dealers (who had
>nothing to
> > > > >gain
> > > > > > from me) what they would offer. One said 95K, one said
>110K and
> > > > >the one
> > > > > > whole actually knew the actual coach said 150K was a serious
> > > > >stretch. Not
> > > > > > only are LX owners unhappy, but WBPT and LXi owners are
>mad, too
> > > > >because
> > > > > > their own manufacturer made it harder for them to sell
>their high-
> > > > >dollar
> > > > > > coaches. And Blue Bird has done it again..most recently
>wiith the
> > > > >M380
> > > > > > which was a disaster (Blue Bird rep's word). I can't
>confirm it,
> > > > >but I
> > > > > > heard every one of them was recalled for various problems,
>mainly
> > > > >electrical
> > > > > > and wiring. They are not made any longer except by special
>order.
> > > > > > All that being said, there's nothing wrong with a Cummins M-
>11 or
> > > > >Allison
> > > > > > 4060, or Ultraleather or fiberglass, for that matter. Just
>make
> > > > >sure you
> > > > > > understand it's not the steel-bodied full-fledged
>Wanderlodge most
> > > > >of us
> > > > > > think of. A poor man's Wanderlodge LX is probably still a
>lot
> > > > >better than
> > > > > > most coaches, new or used. If you want the best LX
>currently on
> > > > >the market,
> > > > > > look at this coach. It's garaged in Michigan and virtually
> > > > >pristine. Nice
> > > > > > people, too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.rvtrader.com/rvdetail519280.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BBarton in Dallas
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "remiksjewelry"
> > > > > > >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Thinking of joining the
>birders!
> > > > > > >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:33:14 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Hello -
> > > > > > >Thanks for having this group! We currently have a Safari
>Trek and
> > > > >are
> > > > > > >looking into upgrading to a Bluebird. We found one we
>like - it
> > > > >is a
> > > > > > >2000 LX Millenium edition. It is for sale in Maryland.
>Does any
> > > > >know
> > > > > > >anything about this particular coach? The price seems
>right, but
> > > > >we
> > > > > > >would have to travel quite a distance to see it for
>ourselves.
> > > > >Also,
> > > > > > >would love to know about the ride and handling of a bird.
> > > > > > >Is the M11 450 cummings a reliable engine?
> > > > > > >Any comments or advice will be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > >Thanks!
> > > > > > >Damien
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these
>few
> > simple tips.
> >
>http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/Preparation
>Tips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more .then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01
Thinking of joining the birders! - brad barton - 03-14-2007 15:48
Damien,
If you follow the thread, you know I have been proven wrong about my
fiberglass/steel body comments. The 2000 LX up in Michigan is a really
clean coach with a steel body and fiberglass cargo doors, but I don't know
if you could get it for under 160K.
The other thing that "cooled us off" was the lack of a slide. We never had
one and didn't want one. We're fortunate that our coach has just one
slide..and it's not too deep. We like our north/south queen and walk around
bedroom better than any cross queen slide we've seen. And, while I intend
for this to be my last coach, I can't be sure I (or my widow) won't want to
sell it someday. If resale value is not that important, and you don't want
a slide, great. Someday, a coach maker will come out with a no -de coach
and act like it's a new thing. But not having a slide in today's
environment carries some risk. My inlaws have a four-slide Eagle that felt
more closed in than my no-slide Newell. We are not slide people, but it's
hard to ignore the obvious.
I get in trouble quoting dealers, but I have found two particular guys in
North Texas (1 retired, 1 still active) to be straight shooters. They never
told me what I wanted to hear. And their opinions have been verified by
other experiences I've had, for what it's worth.
When this one dealer bids on a coach, if it has no slide, he bids 30% under
wholesale book. For a coach with only one slide, he bids 15% under
wholesale book.
Best of Luck,
Brad
>From: Michelle Brunner
>Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Thinking of joining the birders!
>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
>
>BBarton,
> Thanks so much for your candid info on the LX - It was indeed the black
>and white Millenium Edition in Maryland that had caught my eye. The layout
>was fabulous as I work full time on the road and loved the set up with the
>desk. I also loved the fact that there was no gold or "frilly" overdone
>interior.
> Unfortunately, I was notified this am that my beloved bird has been
>sold to a couple from Ohio. The others I have seen for sale are just a bit
>out of my price range.
> Nevertheless, I appreciate the fact that there are those like yourself
>out there that will take the time to lend advice to a stranger.
> Thanks again,
> Damien
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
>always stay connected to friends.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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