![]() |
Just to stir the tire pot.... - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: Just to stir the tire pot.... (/showthread.php?tid=5813) Pages: 1 2 |
Just to stir the tire pot.... - parno357 - 10-11-2007 02:13 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64" wrote: > > Thanks Eric, All this vehicle stuff is open to debate. I was just > thinking it's like changing oil on cars. I tend to go with a > conservative approach in this as well. Better too often rather then Being a yankee, I tend to use up, wear out stuff. Be it crankcase oil, fuel in my tank or Whiskey in the keg. Tires that are 7 years old are used up, toss them out and don't look back. I lost 3 of 4 on one trip! 8 year old Firestones. They looked 100% on the rig. Pete Just to stir the tire pot.... - David Brady - 10-11-2007 03:06 Folks, With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil wrote for the DieselRvs group: ------------------------cut here-------------------------------- --------------------------cut here------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires For all of those following this very important forum thread re: tire ageing I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire design/product support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer. Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know rubber ages and deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER! The life expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In this case we are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The difficulty of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great degree on how the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire exposed to the rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the presence of high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life. Similarly, a tire operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively short life. Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor maintenance practices will also adversely affect the tire life. Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using a process called "vulcanization", this process is promoted by both a chemical reaction and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a tacky soft material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing in our tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the chemical action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the life of the tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we observe in our RV tires. In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a longer carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high percentage of the time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the rubber supple - tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the tire is not used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an automobile museum to see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were restored using new tires. After several years in a fully protected environment the tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's somewhat parallels this action. RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to enhance their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because of harmful components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire manufacturers suggest using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to specifically state) that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or alcohol should not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may be wasting your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the tires inside, outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and ultraviolet. Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues. ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways: first, the tire is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber placed there to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs on ...asphalt or concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from the tires with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or plastic.) So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree that five to seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you) panic and immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year age? No. What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become more diligent and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you should be especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for deterioration or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and look for blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely because an unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration of the inner liner of the tire. If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of deterioration begin to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires of the same age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the opportunity to shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very costly and dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the road. Neil LeKander Just to stir the tire pot.... - bubblerboy64 - 10-11-2007 03:42 Lots of good information there Dave. Trying to think about this logically is the issue. Some of these tires that I am replacing on my bus look brand new and that is my hang up. They are ten years old and I can't be certain as to how they were treated or used. Must have been handled fairly well or there would be obvious signs. My decision was finally made thinking this way: The tires look new but are not and there could be and likely is some deterioration. Over the period of time that I own the coach I will certainly have to change out the tires. It may may as well be sooner then later and then I can put that to rest. There is a "bell" curve in this with factors that push the tire to the left or right under the curve. Even though ten year old tires may have been shifted to the left due to proper care and use the fact that they are ten years old shifts them firmly to the right. Another fact is that because they look perfect today they certainly may not look good or even acceptable in a year. Best to just getter done. John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > Folks, > > With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil > wrote for the DieselRvs group: > > ------------------------cut here-------------------------------- > > --------------------------cut here------------------------------ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@...] > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM > To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires > > > > For all of those following this very important forum thread re: tire ageing > I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire design/product > support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer. > > Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know rubber ages and > deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER! The life > expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In this case we > are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The difficulty > of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great degree on how > the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire exposed to the > rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the presence of > high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life. Similarly, a tire > operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively short life. > Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor maintenance > practices will also adversely affect the tire life. > > Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using a process > called "vulcanization", this process is promoted by both a chemical reaction > and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a tacky soft > material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing in our > tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the chemical > action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the life of the > tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we observe in our > RV tires. > > In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a longer > carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high percentage of the > time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the rubber supple - > tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the tire is not > used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an automobile museum to > see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were restored > using new tires. After several years in a fully protected environment the > tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's somewhat > parallels this action. > > RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to enhance > their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because of harmful > components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire manufacturers suggest > using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to specifically state) > that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or alcohol should > not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may be wasting > your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the tires inside, > outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and ultraviolet. > Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues. > > ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways: first, the tire > is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber placed there > to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs on ...asphalt or > concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from the tires > with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or plastic.) > > So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree that five to > seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you) panic and > immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year age? No. > What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become more diligent > and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you should be > especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for deterioration > or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the > atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and look for > blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely because an > unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration of the > inner liner of the tire. > > If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of deterioration begin > to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires of the same > age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the opportunity to > shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very costly and > dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the road. > > Neil LeKander > Just to stir the tire pot.... - DONALD BROWN - 10-11-2007 09:00 We bought our most recent Bluebird in June of 2007. It had 29,750 miles on it and had been stored in a warehouse in St Petersburg Florida for most of its life. Lots of things needed attention because of it sitting there for so long and Parliament Coach completed a list of 27 different items. What was not on the list was tires , they looked perfect and it turns out they were close to perfect except for their age. They were made in August of 1999. making them more than 8 years old. Today I replace them with 8 new BF Goodrich 12R22.5 16 ply all position radials. $459 mounted ,balanced,new valve stems,gator caps plus local sales tax. I found a local dump truck owner who was willing to pay $50 a piece which reduced the cost and Callahan Tire which has 17 locations in Florida delivered the tires to him no charge. I could have taken a chance for the next year or so but the Florida sun and heat added to my unwillingness to put my Family at risk justified new tires. I did not want to say Coulda,woulda,Shoulda, after something serious happened. Donald & Mary Anne, LX-40, Palmetto, Florida bubblerboy64 this tire subject interesting and at the same time rather puzzling as well. How is it that some ten year old tires show "no" sign of age and weather deterioration and others are described as "cottage cheese" at about the same age. (And on the inside of the tire while the outside shows no problem) Now I wouldn't expect them all to be identical but its difficult for me to understand what the variables are. It would be helpful to know because obviously then perhaps action could be taken to preserve them as much as possible. Obviously covers and proper inflation etc are important. Then there is the question, can you really visually see what is going on. Could you have a situation were the tires looks good on all visible surfaces inside and out and have issues deeper within the tire? I have to go with the prevailing wisdom on this and trust that I am doing the right thing and not wasting money. It seems to me there is not as much science and more religion on this then I am comfortable with. However, certainly better safe then sorry. I have seen guys driving tires which I swear you could see the air inside. But it is extremely hard to throw out tires which look new isn't it? John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > Scott, > Why didn't you ask the tire dealer to buy them off you??? When I replaced the tires on my coach, I asked them before I made the purchase, what would you give me for the carcass??? They told me they would give me $50 each, I said sold!!! > HTH > > Sea Ya > Larry > NYC > 84 35FCSB > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Scott Forman <sforman@...> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 8:03:50 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I left them there. Interestingly enough, they were not the regular > > highway treads, but rather the deeper square "drive" treads like one > > might find on a dump truck. Don't know why the previous owner had > > those on there, he must have got a deal at some point. Frankly, I > > don't care what they do with them, I just want to forget about the > > cost of replacing them. > > > > Scott > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, "Jon" > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, "Scott Forman" <sforman@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The tires on my tag axle were replaced today. I did so because > > the > > > DOT > > > > dates on them were 1994 (not 2004, 1994, as in 13 yers old). > > They > > > > showed no signs of age, cracking, anything, just old age. When > > > they > > > > came off, the insides looked absolutely fine. The tire guys said > > > that > > > > while they agreed that changing them out based on age was > > > the "right" > > > > thing to do, if they viewed the tires without knowing the date, > > > they > > > > would approve them for use without pause. Maybe the tags just > > > don't > > > > get as much abuse and wear. > > > > > > > > Scott Forman > > > > 86 PT38 > > > > Memphis > > > > > > Scott when I replaced my tires they were perfect but had a dot date > > > of 1989. When I had them removed they showed no sign of wear on > > the > > > outside or on the inside as well. > > > > > > So what did you do with your old ones? I bet the tire guy just sold > > > them to a re-treader and now they will be recycled to run down the > > > road on a big rig. > > > > > > Maybe someday they will have some non destructive testing done on > > our > > > expensive tires to see whether or not they are need of replacement. > > > But for now most us try to play it safe and replace our rubber with > > > new when the magic date comes up at seven years old. > > > > > > Jon > > > Rebel Bird > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <!-- > > #ygrp-mkp{ > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;} > #ygrp-mkp hr{ > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} > #ygrp-mkp #hd{ > color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line- height:122%;margin:10px 0px;} > #ygrp-mkp #ads{ > margin-bottom:10px;} > #ygrp-mkp .ad{ > padding:0 0;} > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} > --> > > > > <!-- > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{ > font-family:Arial;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{ > margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{ > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} > --> > > > > <!-- > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} > #ygrp-text{ > font-family:Georgia; > } > #ygrp-text p{ > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > font-family:Arial; > clear:both;} > #ygrp-vitnav{ > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > padding:0 1px;} > #ygrp-actbar{ > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text- align:right;} > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > float:left;white-space:nowrap;} > .bld{font-weight:bold;} > #ygrp-grft{ > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} > #ygrp-ft{ > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; > padding:5px 0; > } > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > padding-bottom:10px;} > > #ygrp-vital{ > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text- transform:uppercase;} > #ygrp-vital ul{ > padding:0;margin:2px 0;} > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; > } > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- align:right;padding-right:.5em;} > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > font-weight:bold;} > #ygrp-vital a{ > text-decoration:none;} > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > text-decoration:underline;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > color:#999;font-size:77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > padding:8px 0;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font- size:100%;line-height:122%;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > text-decoration:none;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > text-decoration:underline;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > margin:0;} > o{font-size:0;} > .MsoNormal{ > margin:0 0 0 0;} > #ygrp-text tt{ > font-size:120%;} > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} > .replbq{margin:4;} > --> > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ ______________ > Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > --------------------------------- Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Just to stir the tire pot.... - Larry Dill - 10-12-2007 01:22 Hi John, I am writing to add to the many suggestions that you are receiving... I was in the boat, that you are in now... When I bought my coach it was stored indoors, in a heated garage for the ten years that the PO has had it... When I purchased it, it had ten year old tires on it that looked like they were installed the day before I looked at it... checking through the paper work that was in the coach, as the widow did not know anything about the coach, I found that the PO had purchased the tires 4 years prior to putting them on the coach, and being that they are only garanteed by the manufacturer from the time they are installed. I figureed I had at least another 2 to 3 years use in them... With this thinking I went to Delray Beach, FL, and back, then went to Key West, FL and back on the 10 YO tires, I thought I was doing great, when twenty miles from my storage facility I had a blow out on the left front, luckily the blow out did not do any damage to the bus, except knocking off some foam insulation... I calle road service, they came and replaced the tire and wook the tire... Then went the following week to get 6 new BFG's for the bus, which they gave me $50 each for the 5 remaining tires... The tires, even the one that blew out did not have any signs of deterioration, nothing visible... I will never make that mistake again, thinking that because they look good that they are OK... Also, I always check the air and fill them up if they were low... Also stop in road stops and thump the tires also, now I have an infrared temp tester... I do not think that you have to justify the purchase of the new tires because they still look good... Tires are like books, you can't tell them by the cover!!! HTH Sea Ya Larry NYC 84 35FCSB ----- Original Message ---- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 11:42:38 AM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot.... Lots of good information there Dave. Trying to think about this logically is the issue. Some of these tires that I am replacing on my bus look brand new and that is my hang up. They are ten years old and I can't be certain as to how they were treated or used. Must have been handled fairly well or there would be obvious signs. My decision was finally made thinking this way: The tires look new but are not and there could be and likely is some deterioration. Over the period of time that I own the coach I will certainly have to change out the tires. It may may as well be sooner then later and then I can put that to rest. There is a "bell" curve in this with factors that push the tire to the left or right under the curve. Even though ten year old tires may have been shifted to the left due to proper care and use the fact that they are ten years old shifts them firmly to the right. Another fact is that because they look perfect today they certainly may not look good or even acceptable in a year. Best to just getter done. John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > Folks, > > With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil > wrote for the DieselRvs group: > > ------------ --------- ---cut here-------- --------- --------- ------ > > ------------ --------- -----cut here-------- --------- --------- ---- > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@ ...] > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM > To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogro ups.com > Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires > > > > For all of those following this very important forum thread re: tire ageing > I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire design/product > support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer. > > Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know rubber ages and > deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER! The life > expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In this case we > are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The difficulty > of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great degree on how > the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire exposed to the > rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the presence of > high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life. Similarly, a tire > operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively short life. > Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor maintenance > practices will also adversely affect the tire life. > > Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using a process > called "vulcanization" , this process is promoted by both a chemical reaction > and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a tacky soft > material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing in our > tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the chemical > action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the life of the > tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we observe in our > RV tires. > > In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a longer > carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high percentage of the > time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the rubber supple - > tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the tire is not > used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an automobile museum to > see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were restored > using new tires. After several years in a fully protected environment the > tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's somewhat > parallels this action. > > RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to enhance > their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because of harmful > components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire manufacturers suggest > using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to specifically state) > that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or alcohol should > not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may be wasting > your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the tires inside, > outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and ultraviolet. > Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues. > > ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways: first, the tire > is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber placed there > to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs on ...asphalt or > concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from the tires > with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or plastic.) > > So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree that five to > seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you) panic and > immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year age? No. > What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become more diligent > and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you should be > especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for deterioration > or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the > atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and look for > blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely because an > unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration of the > inner liner of the tire. > > If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of deterioration begin > to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires of the same > age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the opportunity to > shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very costly and > dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the road. > > Neil LeKander > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Just to stir the tire pot.... - bubblerboy64 - 10-12-2007 07:59 Hi Larry, Your experience and those of others have pushed me into making the move to six new tires (and I was only side tracked by my dealer) When the tire dealer says a fellow doesn't need new tires a person can get off course. It more of less gave me an excuse to go against my better judgment, if that makes any sense. I am leaving as soon as I finish here to check on the bus. They are checking the wheels to see that they are going to work. The tires should be here next week. Larry, maybe you could expand on your tire pressure sensor device. Sounds interesting. John Heckman central Pa 1973FC > > Hi John, > I am writing to add to the many suggestions that you are receiving... I was in the boat, that you are in now... When I bought my coach it was stored indoors, in a heated garage for the ten years that the PO has had it... When I purchased it, it had ten year old tires on it that looked like they were installed the day before I looked at it... checking through the paper work that was in the coach, as the widow did not know anything about the coach, I found that the PO had purchased the tires 4 years prior to putting them on the coach, and being that they are only garanteed by the manufacturer from the time they are installed. I figureed I had at least another 2 to 3 years use in them... With this thinking I went to Delray Beach, FL, and back, then went to Key West, FL and back on the 10 YO tires, I thought I was doing great, when twenty miles from my storage facility I had a blow out on the left front, luckily the blow out did not do any damage to the > bus, except knocking off some foam insulation... I calle road service, they came and replaced the tire and wook the tire... Then went the following week to get 6 new BFG's for the bus, which they gave me $50 each for the 5 remaining tires... > The tires, even the one that blew out did not have any signs of deterioration, nothing visible... > I will never make that mistake again, thinking that because they look good that they are OK... > Also, I always check the air and fill them up if they were low... Also stop in road stops and thump the tires also, now I have an infrared temp tester... > I do not think that you have to justify the purchase of the new tires because they still look good... > Tires are like books, you can't tell them by the cover!!! > HTH > > Sea Ya > Larry > NYC > 84 35FCSB > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: bubblerboy64 > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 11:42:38 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot.... > > Lots of good information there Dave. Trying to think about this > logically is the issue. Some of these tires that I am replacing on > my bus look brand new and that is my hang up. They are ten years old > and I can't be certain as to how they were treated or used. Must have > been handled fairly well or there would be obvious signs. My > decision was finally made thinking this way: The tires look new but > are not and there could be and likely is some deterioration. Over the > period of time that I own the coach I will certainly have to change > out the tires. It may may as well be sooner then later and then I can > put that to rest. There is a "bell" curve in this with factors that > push the tire to the left or right under the curve. Even though ten > year old tires may have been shifted to the left due to proper care > and use the fact that they are ten years old shifts them firmly to > the right. Another fact is that because they look perfect today they > certainly may not look good or even acceptable in a year. Best to > just getter done. > > John Heckman > central Pa > 1973 FC > > > > Folks, > > > > With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil > > wrote for the DieselRvs group: > > > > ------------ --------- ---cut here-------- --------- --------- --- --- > > > > ------------ --------- -----cut here-------- --------- --------- - --- > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@ ...] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM > > To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogro ups.com > > Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires > > > > > > > > For all of those following this very important forum thread re: > tire ageing > > I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire > design/product > > support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer. > > > > Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know rubber > ages and > > deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER! > The life > > expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In this > case we > > are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The > difficulty > > of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great > degree on how > > the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire exposed > to the > > rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the > presence of > > high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life. Similarly, > a tire > > operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively > short life. > > Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor > maintenance > > practices will also adversely affect the tire life. > > > > Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using a > process > > called "vulcanization" , this process is promoted by both a chemical > reaction > > and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a tacky > soft > > material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing > in our > > tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the > chemical > > action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the > life of the > > tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we > observe in our > > RV tires. > > > > In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a > longer > > carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high percentage > of the > > time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the rubber > supple - > > tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the > tire is not > > used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an automobile > museum to > > see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were > restored > > using new tires. After several years in a fully protected > environment the > > tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's > somewhat > > parallels this action. > > > > RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to > enhance > > their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because > of harmful > > components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire manufacturers > suggest > > using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to > specifically state) > > that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or > alcohol should > > not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may > be wasting > > your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the tires > inside, > > outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and > ultraviolet. > > Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues. > > > > ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways: first, > the tire > > is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber > placed there > > to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs > on ...asphalt or > > concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from the > tires > > with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or > plastic.) > > > > So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree that > five to > > seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you) panic > and > > immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year > age? No. > > What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become more > diligent > > and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you should > be > > especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for > deterioration > > or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the > > atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and look > for > > blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely > because an > > unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration > of the > > inner liner of the tire. > > > > If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of > deterioration begin > > to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires of > the same > > age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the > opportunity to > > shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very > costly and > > dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the road. > > > > Neil LeKander > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Need a vacation? Get great deals > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > http://travel.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Just to stir the tire pot.... - Larry Dill - 10-14-2007 02:18 John, The device I was referring to is not a pressure sensor, but and infrared thermometer, to see what the temps are on the tires when you have driven for a while... too much heat is an indication of under inflated tires... The thermometer I have is a Fluke 561 HVAC Pro IR Thermometer... HTH Sea Ya Larry NYC 84 35FCSB ----- Original Message ---- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:59:29 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot.... Hi Larry, Your experience and those of others have pushed me into making the move to six new tires (and I was only side tracked by my dealer) When the tire dealer says a fellow doesn't need new tires a person can get off course. It more of less gave me an excuse to go against my better judgment, if that makes any sense. I am leaving as soon as I finish here to check on the bus. They are checking the wheels to see that they are going to work. The tires should be here next week. Larry, maybe you could expand on your tire pressure sensor device. Sounds interesting. John Heckman central Pa 1973FC > > Hi John, > I am writing to add to the many suggestions that you are receiving... I was in the boat, that you are in now... When I bought my coach it was stored indoors, in a heated garage for the ten years that the PO has had it... When I purchased it, it had ten year old tires on it that looked like they were installed the day before I looked at it... checking through the paper work that was in the coach, as the widow did not know anything about the coach, I found that the PO had purchased the tires 4 years prior to putting them on the coach, and being that they are only garanteed by the manufacturer from the time they are installed. I figureed I had at least another 2 to 3 years use in them... With this thinking I went to Delray Beach, FL, and back, then went to Key West, FL and back on the 10 YO tires, I thought I was doing great, when twenty miles from my storage facility I had a blow out on the left front, luckily the blow out did not do any damage to the > bus, except knocking off some foam insulation.. . I calle road service, they came and replaced the tire and wook the tire... Then went the following week to get 6 new BFG's for the bus, which they gave me $50 each for the 5 remaining tires... > The tires, even the one that blew out did not have any signs of deterioration, nothing visible... > I will never make that mistake again, thinking that because they look good that they are OK... > Also, I always check the air and fill them up if they were low... Also stop in road stops and thump the tires also, now I have an infrared temp tester... > I do not think that you have to justify the purchase of the new tires because they still look good... > Tires are like books, you can't tell them by the cover!!! > HTH > > Sea Ya > Larry > NYC > 84 35FCSB > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: bubblerboy64 > To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 11:42:38 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot.... > > Lots of good information there Dave. Trying to think about this > logically is the issue. Some of these tires that I am replacing on > my bus look brand new and that is my hang up. They are ten years old > and I can't be certain as to how they were treated or used. Must have > been handled fairly well or there would be obvious signs. My > decision was finally made thinking this way: The tires look new but > are not and there could be and likely is some deterioration. Over the > period of time that I own the coach I will certainly have to change > out the tires. It may may as well be sooner then later and then I can > put that to rest. There is a "bell" curve in this with factors that > push the tire to the left or right under the curve. Even though ten > year old tires may have been shifted to the left due to proper care > and use the fact that they are ten years old shifts them firmly to > the right. Another fact is that because they look perfect today they > certainly may not look good or even acceptable in a year. Best to > just getter done. > > John Heckman > central Pa > 1973 FC > > > > Folks, > > > > With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil > > wrote for the DieselRvs group: > > > > ------------ --------- ---cut here-------- --------- --------- --- --- > > > > ------------ --------- -----cut here-------- --------- --------- - --- > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@ ...] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM > > To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogro ups.com > > Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires > > > > > > > > For all of those following this very important forum thread re: > tire ageing > > I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire > design/product > > support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer. > > > > Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know rubber > ages and > > deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER! > The life > > expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In this > case we > > are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The > difficulty > > of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great > degree on how > > the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire exposed > to the > > rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the > presence of > > high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life. Similarly, > a tire > > operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively > short life. > > Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor > maintenance > > practices will also adversely affect the tire life. > > > > Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using a > process > > called "vulcanization" , this process is promoted by both a chemical > reaction > > and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a tacky > soft > > material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing > in our > > tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the > chemical > > action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the > life of the > > tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we > observe in our > > RV tires. > > > > In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a > longer > > carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high percentage > of the > > time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the rubber > supple - > > tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the > tire is not > > used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an automobile > museum to > > see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were > restored > > using new tires. After several years in a fully protected > environment the > > tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's > somewhat > > parallels this action. > > > > RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to > enhance > > their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because > of harmful > > components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire manufacturers > suggest > > using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to > specifically state) > > that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or > alcohol should > > not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may > be wasting > > your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the tires > inside, > > outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and > ultraviolet. > > Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues. > > > > ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways: first, > the tire > > is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber > placed there > > to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs > on ...asphalt or > > concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from the > tires > > with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or > plastic.) > > > > So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree that > five to > > seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you) panic > and > > immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year > age? No. > > What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become more > diligent > > and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you should > be > > especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for > deterioration > > or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the > > atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and look > for > > blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely > because an > > unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration > of the > > inner liner of the tire. > > > > If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of > deterioration begin > > to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires of > the same > > age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the > opportunity to > > shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very > costly and > > dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the road. > > > > Neil LeKander > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ ____________ __ > Need a vacation? Get great deals > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > http://travel. yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} .bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a { text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o {font-size:0;} .MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} .replbq {margin:4;} --> ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |