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Jake Brake Problem - Printable Version

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Jake Brake Problem - Gregory OConnor - 09-17-2008 16:55

If its a prob with the computer this guy has the answer. he lists a
land line. lot of good info on his site. I sent him several
computers to reprogram
http://www.heavydutypowertrain.com/detroitecms.htm

I wonder if the two power sources for the ddec are the right two
fuse/breakers behind the rear bumper?? the left is the ign switch
and bulk oil switch

greg

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert
wrote:
>
> One other thing I forgot. It has been a year since I studied my
set up so I am going from memory. I specifically remember that my
coach has two main DDEC power sources spliced somewhere near the
DDEC control unit and two separate grounds. This set up presumably
as a fail safe in case one of two fuses or relays on the power side
malfunctions, and/or a bad ground in one location either of which
prevents an engine shut down because the DDEC cannot think.(no
power, no ground) I do not know if BB did this or Royale when they
converted my coach. Hope this helps.
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone wrote:
> From: Johnny M Slone
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a
schematic that
>
> shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should
be
>
> on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches
and
>
> relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm
>
> satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to
be
>
> a lead
>
> (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a
>
> relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied
for
>
> the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable
lead
>
> to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know
where
>
> to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase.
>
>
>
> When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach.
>
> Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going
down a
>
> 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get
your
>
> attention.
>
>
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> Johnny M Slone
>
> Pikeville, Ky
>
> 98 LXI
>

Jake Brake Problem - Leroy Eckert - 09-17-2008 17:01

Don't know Greg. I know they are in the engine compartment but have never tracked them down..I have several auto reset breakers back there. I also know my Royale is different than others. Maybe those Prevost converters knew something.?????
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Royale Conversion

--- On Thu, 9/18/08, Gregory OConnor wrote:
From: Gregory OConnor
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 12:55 AM



If its a prob with the computer this guy has the answer. he lists a

land line. lot of good info on his site. I sent him several

computers to reprogram

http://www.heavydut ypowertrain. com/detroitecms. htm



I wonder if the two power sources for the ddec are the right two

fuse/breakers behind the rear bumper?? the left is the ign switch

and bulk oil switch



greg



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", Leroy Eckert

wrote:

>

> One other thing I forgot. It has been a year since I studied my

set up so I am going from memory. I specifically remember that my

coach has two main DDEC power sources spliced somewhere near the

DDEC control unit and two separate grounds. This set up presumably

as a fail safe in case one of two fuses or relays on the power side

malfunctions, and/or a bad ground in one location either of which

prevents an engine shut down because the DDEC cannot think.(no

power, no ground) I do not know if BB did this or Royale when they

converted my coach. Hope this helps.

> Leroy Eckert

> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors

> Dahlonega, GA

> Royale Conversion

>

> --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone wrote:

> From: Johnny M Slone

> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem

> To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"

> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a

schematic that

>

> shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should

be

>

> on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches

and

>

> relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm

>

> satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to

be

>

> a lead

>

> (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a

>

> relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied

for

>

> the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable

lead

>

> to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know

where

>

> to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase.

>

>

>

> When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach.

>

> Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going

down a

>

> 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get

your

>

> attention.

>

>

>

> Thanks again.

>

>

>

> Johnny M Slone

>

> Pikeville, Ky

>

> 98 LXI

>





Jake Brake Problem - Gregory OConnor - 09-17-2008 17:17

My prints say the two to the right go to a "Power Harness Connector" one other wire to that same P H connector isfrom the coolant level sensor somy thinking is it was the power to the DDec???


aİmage
View full size
b


greg
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> Don't know Greg. I know they are in the engine compartment but have never tracked them down..I have several auto reset breakers back there. I also know my Royale is different than others. Maybe those Prevost converters knew something.?????
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Royale Conversion
>
> --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Gregory OConnor Gregoryoc@... wrote:
> From: Gregory OConnor Gregoryoc@...
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 12:55 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If its a prob with the computer this guy has the answer. he lists a
>
> land line. lot of good info on his site. I sent him several
>
> computers to reprogram
>
> http://www.heavydut ypowertrain. com/detroitecms. htm
>
>
>
> I wonder if the two power sources for the ddec are the right two
>
> fuse/breakers behind the rear bumper?? the left is the ign switch
>
> and bulk oil switch
>
>
>
> greg
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, Leroy Eckert
>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > One other thing I forgot. It has been a year since I studied my
>
> set up so I am going from memory. I specifically remember that my
>
> coach has two main DDEC power sources spliced somewhere near the
>
> DDEC control unit and two separate grounds. This set up presumably
>
> as a fail safe in case one of two fuses or relays on the power side
>
> malfunctions, and/or a bad ground in one location either of which
>
> prevents an engine shut down because the DDEC cannot think.(no
>
> power, no ground) I do not know if BB did this or Royale when they
>
> converted my coach. Hope this helps.
>
> > Leroy Eckert
>
> > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>
> > Dahlonega, GA
>
> > Royale Conversion
>
> >
>
> > --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone wrote:
>
> > From: Johnny M Slone
>
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
>
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
>
> > Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a
>
> schematic that
>
> >
>
> > shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should
>
> be
>
> >
>
> > on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches
>
> and
>
> >
>
> > relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm
>
> >
>
> > satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to
>
> be
>
> >
>
> > a lead
>
> >
>
> > (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a
>
> >
>
> > relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied
>
> for
>
> >
>
> > the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable
>
> lead
>
> >
>
> > to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know
>
> where
>
> >
>
> > to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach.
>
> >
>
> > Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going
>
> down a
>
> >
>
> > 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get
>
> your
>
> >
>
> > attention.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanks again.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Johnny M Slone
>
> >
>
> > Pikeville, Ky
>
> >
>
> > 98 LXI
>
> >
>



Jake Brake Problem - Gregory OConnor - 09-17-2008 17:38

I replace all three and opened up the hermetic seal. they were all
full of rust, (not nearly as good a seal as Ed McMahon's mayonnaise
jar). I think they are put at the bumper to keep the heat away???? I
added one more source to power the front ign switch and learned
that all the running lights and most every thing is powered off the
house batteries. if you turn off the house batteries and unplug the
chargers, all you have is starter, ignition and computer. I found
only one fuse under the front panel that was powered off the
batteries hot all the time, 10 ga wire, red, BAK3. I added one more
15 amp off this to the ign. I wonder if that will let the rear 20
amp and the newfront 15 amp burn 35 amp to the ignition switch?????
likewies, the two 20 amps at the rear giving the computer 40 amps
prior to trip off????
greg

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
>
> My prints say the two to the right go to a "Power Harness
Connector" one
> other wire to that same P H connector is from the coolant level
sensor
> so my thinking is it was the power to the DDec???
> a View full size
> <http://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do?
pid=9120PCTTwcnwYsmgQfB1MFCZ8\
> VkyhYjbO8s2v4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D> b
> greg
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert
> wrote:
> >
> > Don't know Greg. I know they are in the engine compartment but
have
> never tracked them down..I have several auto reset breakers back
there.
> I also know my Royale is different than others. Maybe those Prevost
> converters knew something.?????
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> > Royale Conversion
> >
> > --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Gregory OConnor Gregoryoc@ wrote:
> > From: Gregory OConnor Gregoryoc@
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 12:55 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If its a prob with the computer this guy has the answer. he
lists a
> >
> > land line. lot of good info on his site. I sent him several
> >
> > computers to reprogram
> >
> > http://www.heavydut ypowertrain. com/detroitecms. htm
> >
> >
> >
> > I wonder if the two power sources for the ddec are the right two
> >
> > fuse/breakers behind the rear bumper?? the left is the ign switch
> >
> > and bulk oil switch
> >
> >
> >
> > greg
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, Leroy Eckert
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > One other thing I forgot. It has been a year since I studied my
> >
> > set up so I am going from memory. I specifically remember that my
> >
> > coach has two main DDEC power sources spliced somewhere near the
> >
> > DDEC control unit and two separate grounds. This set up
presumably
> >
> > as a fail safe in case one of two fuses or relays on the power
side
> >
> > malfunctions, and/or a bad ground in one location either of
which
> >
> > prevents an engine shut down because the DDEC cannot think.(no
> >
> > power, no ground) I do not know if BB did this or Royale when
they
> >
> > converted my coach. Hope this helps.
> >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> >
> > > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> >
> > > Dahlonega, GA
> >
> > > Royale Conversion
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone wrote:
> >
> > > From: Johnny M Slone
> >
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
> >
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
> >
> > > Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a
> >
> > schematic that
> >
> > >
> >
> > > shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what
should
> >
> > be
> >
> > >
> >
> > > on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control
switches
> >
> > and
> >
> > >
> >
> > > relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm
> >
> > >
> >
> > > satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears
to
> >
> > be
> >
> > >
> >
> > > a lead
> >
> > >
> >
> > > (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this
is a
> >
> > >
> >
> > > relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied
> >
> > for
> >
> > >
> >
> > > the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable
> >
> > lead
> >
> > >
> >
> > > to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know
> >
> > where
> >
> > >
> >
> > > to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the
coach.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going
> >
> > down a
> >
> > >
> >
> > > 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get
> >
> > your
> >
> > >
> >
> > > attention.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Thanks again.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Johnny M Slone
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Pikeville, Ky
> >
> > >
> >
> > > 98 LXI
> >
> > >
> >
>

Jake Brake Problem - Johnny M Slone - 09-18-2008 00:38

I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I have
from the Allison website.

Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't get
many with the coach.

Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC.

My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but cannot
locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess.
Thanks.
Johnny Slone
Pikeville, Ky
98 LXI

Jake Brake Problem - Gregory OConnor - 09-18-2008 01:00

could also be that the prompts are working and it is issue with the
input, like the fuel pedal not returing all the way relaxed??? the
mechanical end of the electronics.
GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone"
wrote:
>
> I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I
have
> from the Allison website.
>
> Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't
get
> many with the coach.
>
> Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC.
>
> My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but
cannot
> locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess.
> Thanks.
> Johnny Slone
> Pikeville, Ky
> 98 LXI
>

Jake Brake Problem - Kurt Horvath - 09-18-2008 01:36

Johnny,

I just posted some photos of the location of the Cannon Plugs, I
thought I had 5, but there are 6 of them.
Click on new photos on the home page, For the blueprint I'll have to
e-mail them directly to you. they are too big for the Forum. If your
transmission is down shifting the problem lies in the Jake
Brake/Engine wiring, I would think, but this is not my specialty. I'm
sure some of the guys will lend a hand in this.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42
10AC


- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone"
wrote:
>
> I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I
have
> from the Allison website.
>
> Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't
get
> many with the coach.
>
> Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC.
>
> My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but
cannot
> locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess.
> Thanks.
> Johnny Slone
> Pikeville, Ky
> 98 LXI
>

Jake Brake Problem - Leroy Eckert - 09-18-2008 01:40

I cannot help you since you have a S60. I assume DDEC III. I doubt that the ATEC and WTEC are the same. The DDEC on mine is on the top rear of the engine. It is a large rectangular sealed box. If it has not been painted the numbers should be on the wires. Without a diagram I don't know what to tell you. Maybe someone on the site has a schematic.
Just keep in mind that other than the fuel allocation system to the injectors and in your case the Jake system the remainder of the DDEC is basically a monitor and is preprogrammed with acceptable parameters; receives information from several sensors or senders and reacts to them if the data is outside the parameters..That is how I understand it. It is not really as smart as the newer models and the codes just steer you in a general direction. If I can find it, I will post a link to the general layout of the
DDEC III. It will not be coach specific but should give you a general idea of what you are dealing with.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

--- On Thu, 9/18/08, Johnny M Slone wrote:
From: Johnny M Slone
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:38 AM



I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I have

from the Allison website.



Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't get

many with the coach.



Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC.



My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but cannot

locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess.

Thanks.

Johnny Slone

Pikeville, Ky

98 LXI





Jake Brake Problem - Kurt Horvath - 09-18-2008 01:45

That's true. If the sensor on the pedal does not go to 0 it will not
activate the Jake. Unfortunatly I replaced min last year, so I'm
looking further down the line. It is something for Johnny to check

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42
10AC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
> could also be that the prompts are working and it is issue with the
> input, like the fuel pedal not returing all the way relaxed??? the
> mechanical end of the electronics.
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptRomolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone"
> wrote:
> >
> > I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I
> have
> > from the Allison website.
> >
> > Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I
didn't
> get
> > many with the coach.
> >
> > Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC.
> >
> > My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but
> cannot
> > locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess.
> > Thanks.
> > Johnny Slone
> > Pikeville, Ky
> > 98 LXI
> >
>

Jake Brake Problem - Leroy A. Eckert - 09-18-2008 01:49

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone"
wrote:
Here is a link to the general overview of a generic DDEC system and
its inputs and outputs.. Others may have additional options.
http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/literature/detroit_diesel/ddec_schematic.htm
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
>
> I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I have
> from the Allison website.
>
> Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't get
> many with the coach.
>
> Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC.
>
> My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but cannot
> locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess.
> Thanks.
> Johnny Slone
> Pikeville, Ky
> 98 LXI
>