+- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com)
+-- Forum: Discussions (/forumdisplay.php?fid=21)
+--- Forum: Chassis (/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE (/showthread.php?tid=66)
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - Ms. Bee - 02-18-2013 21:47
(02-17-2013 21:40)Ms. Bee Wrote: We went to Jo Sams when we first bought our bird and the result was nothing short of amazing. As soon as we pulled away we immediately noticed the difference in handling.
They adjusted the caster and the toe in and also not the anti-sway bar, but the gosh, another bar. I'm trying to remember the name, it will come to me, but it is the same thing that some people have had installed up in Oregon. It stops the bus from having too much play.
They got into the coach with us, drove it. Came back adjusted it again a little more, drove it again, adjusted it another hair, drove it a third time until it was perfect.
It really held so much more steady after that and was much easier to steer.
Can't recommended them highly enough. I believe the cost was $450 may $480. somewhere around that and well worth it.
David,
Just read your post above mine. It was the Safety-Tee that I was trying to think of (when I had a brain fart) that they, Josams, also adjusted for us. I hear one can easily adjust it oneself, just by gradually tightening or losing the hardware on the Safety-Tee from side to side, where ever the play is and the direction the bus wants to pull in when it wants to drift. And then the bus will hold truer, straighter, steadier and not tend to wander all over the road as much. People who have had them installed, really love them. Not always having to fight the steering constantly and compensating and alot less tiring driving.
But this doesn't seem to be Al's problem. Isn't his problem the up and down?
If I recall correctly, what you had an issue with was the anti-sway bar. Believe you said in the earlier LXi's such as mine and Al's, BB put really beefy ones in. Much bigger then what was actually needed and this caused the herky jerky. Can't remember the exact dia, but wasn't 1.5 -2."?
Later BB models came out with more smaller ones. I think you told me, the same dia as Prevost used, maybe 1.25? I remember you telling me that you removed your anti-sway bar completely and it made all the difference, as far as the porpoising. Do I have this somewhat right?
And that you can now drive across the country with a full glass of water on the dash and never lose a drop? LOL
Do you now think it also maybe an air tank issue as well or instead?
I'm not clear on this.
Thanks for all your advice and expertise.
We all appreciate you!
Ms. Bee
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - Itchintogo - 02-18-2013 21:57
If I know David it was a cup of coffee. Water just gets in his mouth.
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - Ms. Bee - 02-18-2013 22:06
(02-18-2013 21:57)Itchintogo Wrote: If I know David it was a cup of coffee. Water just gets in his mouth.
Well if it was a cup of coffee, it might not spill all the way across the country, but would it not get cold???
And if it were a glass of wine, would there be anything left to test his premise, after the first few miles?
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - davidbrady - 02-18-2013 23:33
(02-18-2013 22:06)Ms. Bee Wrote: Well if it was a cup of coffee, it might not spill all the way across the country, but would it not get cold???
And if it were a glass of wine, would there be anything left to test his premise, after the first few miles?
It was most definitely a cup of water. Anything else would mess up my standing wave calculations! yuck, yuck, yuck!
Yes Ms. Bee, you got it, (proceed to the head of your class
). I'd add that Wanderlodge didn't seem to have any rhyme or reason for whatever sway bar they chose. I've seen 1.75" and 2.125" diameter bars scattered throughout the LX/LXi production. Removing either bar is a huge improvement. I'd say, and so do others who have done it, that getting rid of either bar relieves probably 60% or so of the bounce. You can gain another 10% improvement thru careful Koni shock adjustment (with Koni FSD's on the tag and drive), tire pressure settings, and tag axle air pressure setting. The last 30 percent is still up for grabs! Ditching the bar has been corroborated with Ridewell. Bill Mattocks, long time Ridewell engineer, ordains the change saying that the suspension wasn't shipped with an anti-sway bar and doesn't require one.
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - davidbrady - 02-18-2013 23:55
(02-18-2013 21:11)al perna Wrote: So your saying , the BB bottoms out due to not having adequate pressure for the weight and force on some dips and bumps in the road ?
So they added an addition Tank that is dedicated to the front air bags ?
Nope, I'm not saying it's bottoming, in fact, I think it's virtually impossible to bottom. I'm saying it's stiff such that instead of absorbing a bump, the bump is transmitted thru the suspension and the bus body is tossed. One way of making it softer is by increasing the air volume in the air spring. We can't do that easily but we can add an addition air tank that's plumbed into an air spring with a length of hose. This has the effect of increasing the air volume in the air spring. And by carefully choosing the tank size, the length of the hose, and the diameter of the hose, we can place the softness at whatever frequency we want it. We can make it soft for bridge abutments, for instance. Prevost does this and so does Newell.
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - al perna - 02-19-2013 00:10
ok, understood . I think the coach is just set up for certain roads ??
I only seem to have a issue on roads that just arent the best . Put me on decent road way and she rides like a dream . would be interesting to see what you are thinking David ?
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - Ms. Bee - 02-19-2013 00:27
(02-18-2013 23:33)davidmbrady Wrote:(02-18-2013 22:06)Ms. Bee Wrote: Well if it was a cup of coffee, it might not spill all the way across the country, but would it not get cold???
And if it were a glass of wine, would there be anything left to test his premise, after the first few miles?
It was most definitely a cup of water. Anything else would mess up my standing wave calculations! yuck, yuck, yuck!
Yes Ms. Bee, you got it, (proceed to the head of your class
The other thing I think that is worth noting, while I'm being an all out brown noser,
is that the earlier LXi s (99's and 2000) were much weightier than the later LXi's, such as yours, David, a 2003, especially on the steer axle.I remember as a newbie speaking with you, David, for advice, when we were getting new Michelins tires put on, as to what our tire pressures should be. You told me to get the coach weighed, and how to weigh each axle separately, which we did, on a Cat Scale, and then use the Michelin chart for what tire pressure should be.
When I told you what I thought our tire pressure was supposed be according the chart, just to be able to check with you that my figures were correct, you were really surprised until I told you how much our coach weighed.
Our coach empty, new to us, no clothes or dishes or food or other stuff etc stored in it, just us and the dogs, topped 50k, and I think you told me yours weighed somewhere around or closer to 47K or 48K loaded?
I believe on the later models, BB made a concentrated effort to lighten the load, especially on the steer axle, as it was too heavy on the earlier LXi's, I'm pretty sure that there was a recall on the steer axle. On later models after beefing up the steer and they also then decreased the size of the fuel and holding tanks to help make the coach weigh less.
So Al, if he hasn't already, he should really have his coach weighed to check to see if his tire pressure is correct as you have suggested, since he has the same year as ours, one of the heavy, heavier models.
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - davidbrady - 02-19-2013 01:06
True, BB had so many axle Field Service Campaigns on the LXi lineup that they put the later buses on a diet. The earlier LXi's have a water tank in the pass thru bay, mine doesn't. Also, mine has a 260 gallon fuel tank as compared to the 300 gallon tank on the earlier ones. BB started with 14600# steer axles then 15500#, and finally 16000#. It would be worthwhile for Al to check the tag on his steer axle to make sure he's got an I160 for 16000#. But exceptions abound, Rob Robinson's '99 weighs in at 46750#. Mine's an 2002 and it weighs in at 47500, so it's heavier than Rob's. I have maple cabinetry as compared to laminate, also I now have hardwood floors but it originally came with a laminate resilient tile as compared to ceramic tile in some of the early ones. Some early LXi's had wood flooring which kept the weight down. Interior appointments factor into this too. Weights varied quite a bit from bird to bird throughout the LXi production run. But, clearly your correct Jennifer, at some point BB said, "let's see what we can do to reduce the weight". BTW, everything we're discussing here is for the 41' and 43'LXi built from 1998 thru 2003.
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - davidbrady - 02-19-2013 01:12
Al, here's what the anti-sway bar looks like. I took this off my bus:
RE: THE BLUE BIRD BOUNCE - Ms. Bee - 02-19-2013 11:10
2000 LXi
[attachment=40]
(02-18-2013 23:55)davidmbrady Wrote:(02-18-2013 21:11)al perna Wrote: So your saying , the BB bottoms out due to not having adequate pressure for the weight and force on some dips and bumps in the road ?
So they added an addition Tank that is dedicated to the front air bags ?
Nope, I'm not saying it's bottoming, in fact, I think it's virtually impossible to bottom. I'm saying it's stiff such that instead of absorbing a bump, the bump is transmitted thru the suspension and the bus body is tossed. One way of making it softer is by increasing the air volume in the air spring. We can't do that easily but we can add an addition air tank that's plumbed into an air spring with a length of hose. This has the effect of increasing the air volume in the air spring. And by carefully choosing the tank size, the length of the hose, and the diameter of the hose, we can place the softness at whatever frequency we want it. We can make it soft for bridge abutments, for instance. Prevost does this and so does Newell.
So, David that we are riding on more of an air cushion?