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We Were Warned in 1998 - Printable Version

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We Were Warned in 1998 - Dorn Hetzel - 05-13-2008 10:59

You'd be better off to just do a veggie conversion with a start-up/shut-down diesel tank
if you want to burn veggie. Veggie burners have their issues too, but at least they're not snake oil Smile

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Al <"al@pcambulance.net"> wrote:


Brad,

RUN FAR AWAY FROM THAT STUFF. I have been on biodiesel forums for

over 3 years now and their are many accounts of this product clogging

injectors. If you are looking for cheap fuel, there is only one way

to that that is safe and well tested! Long story short, this snake

oil is supposed to thin out the oil. Only way to do that is by a

chemical process. I run 6 hours acid reaction and then 6 hours with

a base reaction. You are never going to stir in some ingredients and

filter and have anything close.



Al Johnson

'96 BMC B100

Mandeville, Louisiana



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", brad barton <bbartonwx@...>

wrote:


>

> I know we have Al who's into bio diesel. Has anyone tried

the "diesel secret" formula of heavily filtered non-hydrogenated oil

and catalyst (basically lye)? If they're not a bunch of chalatans,

that seems like a much simpler approach. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you.
> http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?

ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008

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We Were Warned in 1998 - brad barton - 05-13-2008 11:01

Sounds pretty definitive. Thanks Al.

BradBarton00LXiDFW bbartonwx@...


To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: al@...
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:55:43 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: We Were Warned in 1998


Brad,
RUN FAR AWAY FROM THAT STUFF. I have been on biodiesel forums for
over 3 years now and their are many accounts of this product clogging
injectors. If you are looking for cheap fuel, there is only one way
to that that is safe and well tested! Long story short, this snake
oil is supposed to thin out the oil. Only way to do that is by a
chemical process. I run 6 hours acid reaction and then 6 hours with
a base reaction. You are never going to stir in some ingredients and
filter and have anything close.

Al Johnson
'96 BMC B100
Mandeville, Louisiana

--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", brad barton <bbartonwx@.<WBR>..>
wrote:
>
> I know we have Al who's into bio diesel. Has anyone tried
the "diesel secret" formula of heavily filtered non-hydrogenated oil
and catalyst (basically lye)? If they're not a bunch of chalatans,
that seems like a much simpler approach. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you.
> http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?
ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008
>


Windows Live SkyDrive lets you share files with faraway friends. Start sharing.

We Were Warned in 1998 - Mike Hohnstein - 05-13-2008 11:23


IF you have a supply of clean consistent quality veg oil, you can run it strait after it is heated to 160 degrees before the pump. It's goes like this, ya start on dino fuel, then change over to veg when it's up to temp. The fuel tank is heated by coolant via a copper coil in the fuel tank. Reverse the process for shut down. Idle long enough to displace the veg oil in the pump and lines with dino fuel. Obviously this requires two tanks, but it seems like the best way to use veg oil to me. The problem with breaking down the viscosity of the veg oil is consistency. Making bio with all the right equipment and experience is a good thing. However, the 'quick and dirty' additive programs make me very nervous. It only takes one major problem that screws up your fuel system to knock all the potential saving out of the park for years.
Using veg oil is a worthy activity, but it takes commitment and tenacity. Most folks are better off just payin' the price for the dino fuel.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: "bbartonwx@hotmail.com"
To: "wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: We Were Warned in 1998


I know we have Al who's into bio diesel. Has anyone tried the "diesel secret" formula of heavily filtered non-hydrogenated oil and catalyst (basically lye)? If they're not a bunch of chalatans, that seems like a much simpler approach.

BradBarton00LXiDFW "bbartonwx@hotmail.com"


İmage

With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. Connect on the go.



We Were Warned in 1998 - Pete Masterson - 05-13-2008 12:27

I find them interesting, especially from a moderate distance. They wouldn't bother me. However, the several large windmill farms (Altamont Pass in the SF Bay Area) have discovered that they're a significant hazard to birds. It seems that the birds of prey are attracted to the fields beneath the wind mills. The fields are kept trimmed, reducing cover for the rodents, etc. so the falcons, eagles, etc. come for easy meals -- but they don't always realize that the blades are turning and a lot of birds are getting killed. 
Also, since were in the "Pacific flyway" for migrating birds, there are also some ecological fall out from that. There are certain times of year when the wind mills are not operated because of the risk to the birds.
Always lots of unintended consequences...
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
"aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 13, 2008, at 11:13 AM, Ryan Wright wrote:

<snip>
Farmers with cheap, remote and windy land that nobody wants to live on
are now finding their property spiking in value. Wind farm operators
are paying several thousand dollars per year, per tower, and the
footprint is so small that the farmer can continue to grow crops. It's
a win-win to me. A friend of mine is about to inherit property with
residual wind farm income over a quarter million dollars a year. Ten
years ago, his father's farm was only worth what they could grow on
it.


We Were Warned in 1998 - Dorn Hetzel - 05-13-2008 12:34

One good thing about the migration to larger and larger turbine units is that as the blade diameter goes up, the RPM goes down.

At some point in that progression, they will probably cease to be much of a danger to birds.


I saw some blades being trucked across Texas last week that were easily 125 to 150 feet long and 3 or 4 feet in spoke diameter where they attached to the hub. I wouldn't have wanted to be the trucker trying to maneuver those loads Smile


Average wind velocity rises with the height above ground, so taller and taller towers with bigger and bigger turbines are definitely the future. I think the big ones make much less annoying noise also, much lower frequency.


-Dorn
77FC35
Hogansville, GA

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Pete Masterson <"aeonix1@mac.com"> wrote:



I find them interesting, especially from a moderate distance. They wouldn't bother me. However, the several large windmill farms (Altamont Pass in the SF Bay Area) have discovered that they're a significant hazard to birds. It seems that the birds of prey are attracted to the fields beneath the wind mills. The fields are kept trimmed, reducing cover for the rodents, etc. so the falcons, eagles, etc. come for easy meals -- but they don't always realize that the blades are turning and a lot of birds are getting killed.

Also, since were in the "Pacific flyway" for migrating birds, there are also some ecological fall out from that. There are certain times of year when the wind mills are not operated because of the risk to the birds.
Always lots of unintended consequences...
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
"aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 13, 2008, at 11:13 AM, Ryan Wright wrote:

<snip>
Farmers with cheap, remote and windy land that nobody wants to live on
are now finding their property spiking in value. Wind farm operators
are paying several thousand dollars per year, per tower, and the
footprint is so small that the farmer can continue to grow crops. It's
a win-win to me. A friend of mine is about to inherit property with
residual wind farm income over a quarter million dollars a year. Ten
years ago, his father's farm was only worth what they could grow on
it.



We Were Warned in 1998 - Don Bradner - 05-13-2008 13:29

On 5/13/2008 at 8:34 PM Dorn Hetzel wrote:

>One good thing about the migration to larger and larger turbine units is
>that as the blade diameter goes up, the RPM goes down.
>
>At some point in that progression, they will probably cease to be much of a
>danger to birds.

Might be a wash. Double the diameter, halve the RPMs, and have a blade tip speed
that is exactly the same.

However I suspect it is the big blades that cause the greatest grief. Consider a
big one around 5 RPM, so a blade goes by (3-bladed) every 4 seconds. Sort of
like a bird flying low across the road where cars are passing every 4 seconds
(and the bird gets hit). They would never consider it if the gap between cars
was a tenth of a second.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting today by satellite from Wenatchee, WA

We Were Warned in 1998 - Ryan Wright - 05-14-2008 17:24

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Pete Masterson wrote:
>
> The fields are kept trimmed, reducing cover for the rodents, etc. so
> the falcons, eagles, etc. come for easy meals -- but they don't always
> realize that the blades are turning and a lot of birds are getting killed.

Fact is, they don't kill that many birds in the grand scheme of
things. The Altamont Pass turbines are the worst offenders - these are
an old design placed right into the path of migratory birds. New
designs kill far fewer birds. Still, the death rate is infinitesimally
tiny compared to other sources: In the United States, cars and trucks
wipe out millions of birds each year, while 100 million to 1 billion
birds collide with windows, compared to an average of 2.19 bird deaths
per turbine per year. (source:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php) So, it's
not that we don't care about birds, but the problem has been blown way
out of proportion. Even so, researchers are actively trying to reduce
bird deaths and they're succeeding:

Compare the old turbine design:
http://images.usatoday.com/tech/_photos/2005/01/05/turbines-main.jpg

With the new:
http://www.currykerlinger.com/images/pic-kansasturbines150L.jpg

The new are much prettier, and the blades are huge and blunt and move
very slow, thus being much safer for birds. The new design are the
style they've put in around my city.

In the end, though, none of this electricity business helps our RVs.
It's great for cars - new battery technologies will make EVs or
parallel-hybrids a wise choice for a lot of us in the very near
future. Average expected cost to power a Tesla Roadster is only a
penny per mile. Even my 70-mpg hybrid Honda Insight costs twenty times
that at $3.50/gallon gas. So I'll snap up an electric car as soon as I
can buy one for the cost of a normal car. But, in order to push my old
Wanderlodge down the road, someone's going to have to develop Mr.
Fusion... You couldn't put enough batteries on board to pull this old
beast more than a couple of miles.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92