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Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold - Printable Version

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Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold - timvasqz - 12-24-2008 04:27

Glenn if it is possible to do the trade with minimal effort, I think
I would revisit the inverter use of a modern green midsize refer to
replace the amonia setup in my bus. I was looking at putting a mid
size compressor style refer/refridge in the area I park our bus to
transfer refer goods when docked because electric to run the boiler
on the ammonia system seems high. Our rate for 200% of allotment is
around $0.35 per kilowatt hour in Romoland.
the mid size combos have tags that claim they cost only $43 per the
year to run at$0.16 per kilowatt. The math????
4300 / 16 = 269 Kilowatts per year. 269 KW / 365 days = .7363
Kilowatts per the day to run.
Does anyone know of conversion math necessry to calc the battery
needed to invert 1 kw per the day??GregoryO'Connor ofTim&Greg
94ptCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn Allen"
wrote:
>
>
>
> I replaced our refrigerator last year and did not have to remove
the windshield. I did
> remove the doors off the refer and the restraining strap on the
entry door. It was tight, but
> it fit with no problem.
>
> Glenn
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "timvasqz" wrote:
> >
> > I like the amonia refers as we tailgate and drycamp alot. to
> > replace an entire box I understand the windshield needs to come
out.
> > here is where I would go to buy new mechanicals for the
origional
> > refer
> > http://www.rvmobile.com/
> >
> > look at the cooling unit column and run those hyperlinks
> >
> >
> > GregoryO'Connor ofTim&Greg
> > 94ptCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the continued replies, folks.
> > >
> > > 1. Haven't checked the gas regulator... but my LP furnaces are
all
> > > operating simultaneously and producing plenty of hot air, so
I'm
> > > assuming nothing is wrong there.
> > >
> > > 2. I'm parked at home and the coach is level.
> > >
> > > 3. The exhaust fans up top are turned off.
> > >
> > > 4. Lastly... I now have a mild, but easily discernible,
ammonia
> > smell
> > > in the fridge. Sad ... That can''t be good?
> > >
> > > -Ryan
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 7:06 AM, sfedeli3 <sfedeli3@> wrote:
> > > > Ryan (and others)- Have you checked the performance of the
gas
> > > > regulator? I was attempting to fire up my smoker yesterday
and
> > could
> > > > not get the flame to come up very high- turns out that the
> > regulator
> > > > was not working "as well" in colder temps and was freezing
up.
> > > > Replaced it with a new regulator and everything was fine. If
your
> > > > coach has the original gas regulator(s) in the refer
compartment
> > and
> > > > on the tank- that "could" be your problem.
> > > >
> > > > Shane Fedeli
> > > > 85PT40
> > > > Hershey, PA
> > >
> >
>

Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold - Pete Masterson - 12-24-2008 07:08

Watts divided by volts = amps so 1000 watts (1 kW)/120 volts = 8.33 amps.
Since that is used over a period of 1 day (24 hours), that's an average of about .35 amps per hour.
Figure in some loss due to the inverter, so about .5 amps per hour is the use at 120 VAC.
Then converting the 120 v amps to 12 v amps, you get an average of about 5 amps per hour from the battery. Actual consumption at a point in time may be higher -- so you also need to check the peak draw. What is the refrigerator's nominal power rating (amps or watts) when it is running? The battery will 'feel' the actual draw, so it may draw down more quickly than it would if the average draw was the actual draw due to the physics of batteries.
Check Consumer's Reports -- the energy calculation on _some_ refrigerators is bogus (you use much more than they claim) but on others it is OK. So, check the energy use as calculated by CR before you commit to buying a particular unit.
Having an all-electric coach with a standard 22 cu ft side-by-side door home-style refrigerator, I can assure you that's it's practical to not have an LP gas refrigerator. I would suggest using a true sine wave inverter (if possible) to get better efficiency from the refrigerator motor. The modified sine wave inverters cause the motor to run hotter, using more electricity (than spec) and probably diminishing the eventual life span of the refrigerator compressor motor.
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)
El Sobrante CA
"aeonix1@mac.com"
On Dec 24, 2008, at 8:27 AM, timvasqz wrote:

Glenn if it is possible to do the trade with minimal effort, I think 
I would revisit the inverter use of a modern green midsize refer to 
replace the amonia setup in my bus.  I was looking at putting a mid 
size compressor style refer/refridge in the area I park our bus to 
transfer refer goods when docked because electric to run the boiler 
on the ammonia system seems high. Our rate for 200% of allotment is 
around $0.35 per kilowatt hour in Romoland. 
the mid size combos have tags that claim they cost only $43 per the 
year to run at$0.16 per kilowatt. The math???? 
4300 / 16 = 269 Kilowatts per year.  269 KW / 365 days = .7363 
Kilowatts per the day to run. 
Does anyone know of  conversion math necessry to calc the battery 
needed to invert 1 kw per the day??GregoryO'Connor ofTim&Greg
94ptCa


Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold - timvasqz - 12-24-2008 13:48

Pete, thanks, I guess all the math is dependent on too many
factors. I think I will do an actual world test. when I pick up a
refer/fridge for my shop, I'll plug it into the inverter and check
the amp spent over a 24 hour period. The other advantage of a
compressor refer is capturing the heat from the spent compressor
energy in the winter.
Back to our constant shade tree addons and garage engineering for
the sake of cold Pepsi. I think bluebird got things wrong from the
start. in my outside refer compartment the refer coil is over a foot
from the wall on one side (refer is angled). boiler heat is intended
to be used to process the ammonia as the gas rises in the coil and
the heat passivly disapates up a natural convection of venting air.
gradual cooling is intended. here is some more info on the dynamic
http://www.rvmobile.com/Tech/Trouble/vent.htm

GregoryO'Connor of Tim&Greg
94ptca

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> Watts divided by volts = amps so 1000 watts (1 kW)/120 volts =
8.33
> amps.
>
> Since that is used over a period of 1 day (24 hours), that's an
> average of about .35 amps per hour.
>
> Figure in some loss due to the inverter, so about .5 amps per hour
is
> the use at 120 VAC.
>
> Then converting the 120 v amps to 12 v amps, you get an average
of
> about 5 amps per hour from the battery. Actual consumption at a
point
> in time may be higher -- so you also need to check the peak draw.
> What is the refrigerator's nominal power rating (amps or watts)
when
> it is running? The battery will 'feel' the actual draw, so it may
> draw down more quickly than it would if the average draw was the
> actual draw due to the physics of batteries.
>
> Check Consumer's Reports -- the energy calculation on _some_
> refrigerators is bogus (you use much more than they claim) but on
> others it is OK. So, check the energy use as calculated by CR
before
> you commit to buying a particular unit.
>
> Having an all-electric coach with a standard 22 cu ft side-by-
side
> door home-style refrigerator, I can assure you that's it's
practical
> to not have an LP gas refrigerator. I would suggest using a true
sine
> wave inverter (if possible) to get better efficiency from the
> refrigerator motor. The modified sine wave inverters cause the
motor
> to run hotter, using more electricity (than spec) and probably
> diminishing the eventual life span of the refrigerator compressor
motor.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)
> <http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html>
> El Sobrante CA
> aeonix1@...
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2008, at 8:27 AM, timvasqz wrote:
>
> > Glenn if it is possible to do the trade with minimal effort, I
think
> > I would revisit the inverter use of a modern green midsize refer
to
> > replace the amonia setup in my bus. I was looking at putting a
mid
> > size compressor style refer/refridge in the area I park our bus
to
> > transfer refer goods when docked because electric to run the
boiler
> > on the ammonia system seems high. Our rate for 200% of allotment
is
> > around $0.35 per kilowatt hour in Romoland.
> > the mid size combos have tags that claim they cost only $43 per
the
> > year to run at$0.16 per kilowatt. The math????
> > 4300 / 16 = 269 Kilowatts per year. 269 KW / 365 days = .7363
> > Kilowatts per the day to run.
> > Does anyone know of conversion math necessry to calc the battery
> > needed to invert 1 kw per the day??GregoryO'Connor ofTim&Greg
> > 94ptCa
> >
>

Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold - Joyce and Richard Hayden - 12-26-2008 13:28



Ryan,
There is a guy here in Everett, WA that sells re-built refers if your interested. I also believe he sells re-built cooling units as well. However, as I understand it, he will not ship. You would need to make the trip over the pass to get it. Let me know if you are interested and I'll do some more checking for you.
Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "erniecarpet@aol.com"
To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold


That ammonia smell means that you will be in the market for a new fridge. Sorry, the old one is toast. Ernie-83PT40 in Texas


-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Wright <"ryanpwright@gmail.com">
To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 4:40 pm
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold


Thanks for the continued replies, folks.

1. Haven't checked the gas regulator... but my LP furnaces are all
operating simultaneously and producing plenty of hot air, so I'm
assuming nothing is wrong there.

2. I'm parked at home and the coach is level.

3. The exhaust fans up top are turned off.

4. Lastly... I now have a mild, but easily discernible, ammonia smell
in the fridge. Sad ... That can''t be good?

-Ryan

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 7:06 AM, sfedeli3 <"sfedeli3%40comcast.net"> wrote:
> Ryan (and others)- Have you checked the performance of the gas
> regulator? I was attempting to fire up my smoker yesterday and could
> not get the flame to come up very high- turns out that the regulator
> was not working "as well" in colder temps and was freezing up.
> Replaced it with a new regulator and everything was fine. If your
> coach has the original gas regulator(s) in the refer compartment and
> on the tank- that "could" be your problem.
>
> Shane Fedeli
> 85PT40
> Hershey, PA




Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold - Joyce and Richard Hayden - 12-26-2008 13:33



Ryan,
This is the guy I mentioned in previous post. I stand corrected, apparently he will ship cooling units but not whole units. That's a good thing if that is the way you want to go.
Thanks Gregory for the info. I had forgotten the name but only remembered he was in Everett.
Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Petrover1@aol.com"
To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:30 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Fridge quit cooling in the deep cold


I like the amonia refers as we tailgate and drycamp alot. to
replace an entire box I understand the windshield needs to come out.
here is where I would go to buy new mechanicals for the origional
refer
http://www.rvmobile.com/

look at the cooling unit column and run those hyperlinks

GregoryO'Connor ofTim&Greg
94ptCa

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Ryan Wright"
...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the continued replies, folks.
>
> 1. Haven't checked the gas regulator... but my LP furnaces are all
> operating simultaneously and producing plenty of hot air, so I'm
> assuming nothing is wrong there.
>
> 2. I'm parked at home and the coach is level.
>
> 3. The exhaust fans up top are turned off.
>
> 4. Lastly... I now have a mild, but easily discernible, ammonia
smell
> in the fridge. Sad ... That can''t be good?
>
> -Ryan
>
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 7:06 AM, sfedeli3 <sfedeli3@..<WBR>.> wrote:
> > Ryan (and others)- Have you checked the performance of the gas
> > regulator? I was attempting to fire up my smoker yesterday and
could
> > not get the flame to come up very high- turns out that the
regulator
> > was not working "as well" in colder temps and was freezing up.
> > Replaced it with a new regulator and everything was fine. If your
> > coach has the original gas regulator(s) in the refer compartment
and
> > on the tank- that "could" be your problem.
> >
> > Shane Fedeli
> > 85PT40
> > Hershey, PA
>