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Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 (/showthread.php?tid=3123) |
Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Eric Johnson - 08-10-2006 12:50 Hello Ernie & Company, I appreciate all the suggestions on installing a separate transmission cooler. From the website Tom recommended as cooler source they recommend a two pass cooler w/ dimensions of 22"X24"X1-1/2" plus a fan. There is quite a bit of space in between frame rails about 1/2 way back if you mount it in a horizontal orientation above the drive shaft and in front of retarder. Don't understand comments about the rediline compartment. You guys thinking to cut the compartment walls away and use the space for the cooler? Regards, Eric 84FC35SBWL2 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote: > > I believe the rediline was still in my FC. That is an excellent place for > another air intake and you Cat would love you for the modification. > > Ernie Ekberg > 83 PT40 > Livingston, Montana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Eric Johnson - 08-10-2006 13:01 Hi Bill, Ain't no doubt about it, this summer has been a hot one and that is playing a role in the heat problem. I think we are discussing a number of hardware mods that can help. Two important ideas that aren't getting much discussion are: 1. Driving technique. I found out the hard way that you want to proactively downshift to keep engine and fan rpms up. Flooring the accelerator and bogging the engine just makes the problem worse. You can't be in a hurry to get up the hill with a 3208 FC. 2. Ernie Collier of BB suggested installing a switch to manually bring the Facet fan on earlier while climbing a grade. I don't have that switch (some do) but will install one soon. Regards, Eric 84FC35SBWL2 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape" > > > > Gardner, > > More is always better in keeping the Cat running cool. > > But, I think some of the postings on high temps are related > to the outside Ambient temperatures. Some 3208's do not like > hills and mountains when the outside temp is over 90 degrees. > > Bill 88 FC Michigan > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw" > wrote: > > > > > > If I read the suggestions correctly, in an FC with the 4.88 > gears > > and towing something an auxillary trany cooler would almost be a > > must. > > > > Gardner Almost a be. > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" > > wrote: > > > > > > Ernie, Eric, Good location for a variety of things. I have seen > a > > > couple of older FC's with their redi-line removed, or not there > > use > > > that area for an extra air intake as well. Filter was in that > > area. The > > > heavy screen could be 1/4 squares "rabbit fence" type. > > > > > > ScottB > > > 86FC35 "RUBY" 4 Sale > > > SC > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Eric, on my 84 35 FC, the transmission cooler was installed > > under the > > > right > > > > front storage bay. It had a heavy mesh screen under that to > > protect > > > it from > > > > debris. Worked like a charm. > > > > > > > > Ernie Ekberg > > > > 83 PT40 > > > > Livingston, Montana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - davidkerryedwards - 08-10-2006 13:21 As someone posted earlier, turning on the winter switch and aux pump, making sure all gate valves are open, turning on the chassis heat and all the fans will add a significant amount of cooling capacity. It'll probably cook the people in the coach but for a few steep hills, it's a simple solution that requires no modifications. Kerry 82 FC 35 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson" wrote: > > Hi Bill, > Ain't no doubt about it, this summer has been a hot one and that is playing a role in the > heat problem. I think we are discussing a number of hardware mods that can help. Two > important ideas that aren't getting much discussion are: > 1. Driving technique. I found out the hard way that you want to proactively downshift to > keep engine and fan rpms up. Flooring the accelerator and bogging the engine just makes > the problem worse. You can't be in a hurry to get up the hill with a 3208 FC. > 2. Ernie Collier of BB suggested installing a switch to manually bring the Facet fan on > earlier while climbing a grade. I don't have that switch (some do) but will install one soon. > Regards, Eric > 84FC35SBWL2 > > Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Eric Johnson - 08-10-2006 14:47 Hi Ernie, Don't think I have a Rediline. There is no black metal louvered panel. Maybe WL2's didn't have such a thing. Front right compartment is just like the others and I keep tools in there. Thanks, Eric 84FC35SWL2 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote: > > ERic- did your Wanderlodge II have a Rediline? > On my FC, I didn't know I had a rediline till I opened the front curb side > compartment and looked behind the black metal louvered panel- there was this > "thing" back there. Of course, back in those days, I hadn't a clue what a > rediline was. The things we learn from these coaches!! > > Ernie Ekberg > 83 PT40 > Livingston, Montana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Scott - 08-10-2006 16:18 Eric, you probably do not have the rediline then. It looks like a small air compressor in there. It runs an outlet on the wall and the ice machine, while running down the road. It is an electric generator providing 110v from the CAT motor. Our 86FC has one and it still works fine. I would not replace it if it give up the ghost. It pulls 90amps when running. In todays world inverters are much more effecient in my opinion. If you do not have a rediline then you are there. Time to modify the compartment. ScottB 86FC35 "RUBY" 4 SALE SC --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson" wrote: > > Hi Ernie, > Don't think I have a Rediline. There is no black metal louvered panel. Maybe WL2's didn't > have such a thing. Front right compartment is just like the others and I keep tools in > there. > Thanks, Eric > 84FC35SWL2 > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote: > > > > ERic- did your Wanderlodge II have a Rediline? > > On my FC, I didn't know I had a rediline till I opened the front curb side > > compartment and looked behind the black metal louvered panel- there was this > > "thing" back there. Of course, back in those days, I hadn't a clue what a > > rediline was. The things we learn from these coaches!! > > > > Ernie Ekberg > > 83 PT40 > > Livingston, Montana > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Howard O. Truitt - 08-10-2006 23:17 Scottt, I have never heard of turning on the winter/summer switch and the aux. pump for extra radiator cooling. How much have you seen this help. Do you need to have the heaters in the coach turned on. Little things like this is what makes this a great site. Howard Truitt Camilla, Ga. 86 PT40 ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 Hey Bill, I would agree. In our 86FC when coolant temps approach 220* I am hitting the winter/summer switch and turning on the aux pump. If that does not help then the fan override is next. If that is no help the I am looking for a place to stop. Something is wrong. Believe me I know the cost of CAT heads,gaskets, rad cleaning, new water pump etc. ($5k) Been there. Mike has a "lil speriance" himself. I would tend to agree with him. The oil may handle the temps but my CAT doesnt like em. Plus I ALWAYS cool the engine down before shut down. Anything I can do to help the old girl, I will try. She may be old but she can still dance! ScottB 86FC35 "RUBY" 4 SALE SC --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape" wrote: > > > > Hey Mike & Eric, > > The BB manual in the Blue Box states that the normal > oil temp for the 3208 should be between 200 and 250. > > BB did not build the 3208, 250 degrees sounds really high, > And gage readings could be off by atleast 10%. > > My 2 cents, > > Bill 88 FC Michigan > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson" > wrote: > > > > Hello Mike, > > I understand that radiator spray systems are nothing new. I've > been aware of them for a > > number of years. Glad to hear you use one and that it gives you > good results. > > > > I respect the fact that you have a lot of experience, however you > are not the only person > > that has some knowledge to share on our website. None of us has > the corner on > > everything there is to know about these coaches. Your experience > and knowledge are > > valuable to all of us but some of what you think you know may be > wrong. > > > > I hope all of us can continue to share the best of what we know > but also be willing to listen > > to the views of others without being critical or abusive. > > > > I wish you many happy Blue Bird miles. > > Regards, Eric > > 84FC35SBWL2 > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" > <MHOHNSTEIN@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Yo, Johnson, it's NOT an IDEA. It's on my vehicle and it > actually works, per my oil pan > > temp gage and my water temp gage. Nothing new about, just because > it seems to be > > unfamilar to you. Just returned from a 4000 mile trip to Idaho > and am going back next > > month so I get on down the road too. As far as temperature > limits, that's experience, I've > > got a lot of it and it's OK if you want to ignore it my advice, > it's your engine. > > > MH > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eric Johnson > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:40 PM > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 > > > > > > > > > Hello Again Chuck, > > > Mike's idea about a spray bar will improve cooling capacity on > a hot, dry, day, but not > > sure > > > where he gets the max numbers on coolant and oil. Important to > remember the > > > thermostat doesn't fully open until 185ºF. Radiator cap > pressure rating of 7 psig, > > altitude > > > and coolant composition set how hot you can run the radiator > before you boil over. > > > Engine oil can safely operate at sustained temperatures of 220- > 240ºF and for shorter > > > periods as high as 300ºF with no problems given normal oil > changes. > > > Regards, Eric > > > 84FC35SBWL2 > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson" > > > > > > > > > Hello Chuck, > > > > My 3208 is in the front rather than the back but your > experiences were much like > > mine > > > > while climbing mountain passes in Colorado. Not sure you can > expect any lower > > > > temperatures than what you're getting in hot summer weather. > I found on my coach > > > that > > > > it helps some to gear down as your speed drops off to keep > RPM's up so the fan > > cools > > > > better and the engine load is reduced. > > > > Regards, Eric > > > > 84FC35SBWL2 > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "williamcharrison" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just came back from a long trip and noticed that at every > extended > > > > > grade climb the temp gauge would start climbing toward 220. > > > > > It never reached 220 but the level increase alarms me. I > have > > > > > cleaned the radiator and put new belts on all around. The > oil temp > > > > > also climbs to about 230 (though I don't know what the > danger level > > > > > is). The thermostat was replaced before my first trip this > year > > > > > and I had no similar problems, but then the temperature > was in the 70's > > > > > and on the last trip it was in the 90's. > > > > > > > > > > Chuck Harrison > > > > > Akron, Ohio > > > > > 90SP36 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date: 8/9/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Scott - 08-11-2006 03:49 Hey Howard, the winter/summer switch opens a spolan that allows the water to travel further through the chassis heat system, instead of going through the hot water tank then back to the CAT (remember I have a FC) This is the same as in a car when you see high temps start turn on the heater. It helps but not drastically, but it does help. I try that before the fan because the fan is loud. Since I had the radiator work, water pump I do not see the high coolant temps. A simple check of the radiator is to take a infared temp gun and "shoot" the radiator in various places from top to bottom, often times if the radiator has "stuff" that has settled in the bottom of it (kinda common) it will show a temperature difference. Some radiators are only cooling on 1/2 or 2/3 of the capacity of the radiator. Hence high temps under slight loads and time for some maintenace. ScottB 86FC35 "RUBY" 4 SALE SC --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Howard O. Truitt" > > Scottt, > I have never heard of turning on the winter/summer switch and the aux. pump for extra radiator cooling. How much have you seen this help. Do you need to have the heaters in the coach turned on. > Little things like this is what makes this a great site. > Howard Truitt > Camilla, Ga. > 86 PT40 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:49 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 > > > Hey Bill, I would agree. In our 86FC when coolant temps approach 220* > I am hitting the winter/summer switch and turning on the aux pump. If > that does not help then the fan override is next. If that is no help > the I am looking for a place to stop. Something is wrong. > > Believe me I know the cost of CAT heads,gaskets, rad cleaning, new > water pump etc. ($5k) Been there. Mike has a "lil speriance" himself. > I would tend to agree with him. The oil may handle the temps but my > CAT doesnt like em. Plus I ALWAYS cool the engine down before shut > down. > > Anything I can do to help the old girl, I will try. She may be old > but she can still dance! > > ScottB > 86FC35 "RUBY" 4 SALE > SC > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Mike & Eric, > > > > The BB manual in the Blue Box states that the normal > > oil temp for the 3208 should be between 200 and 250. > > > > BB did not build the 3208, 250 degrees sounds really high, > > And gage readings could be off by atleast 10%. > > > > My 2 cents, > > > > Bill 88 FC Michigan > > > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson" > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello Mike, > > > I understand that radiator spray systems are nothing new. I've > > been aware of them for a > > > number of years. Glad to hear you use one and that it gives you > > good results. > > > > > > I respect the fact that you have a lot of experience, however you > > are not the only person > > > that has some knowledge to share on our website. None of us has > > the corner on > > > everything there is to know about these coaches. Your experience > > and knowledge are > > > valuable to all of us but some of what you think you know may be > > wrong. > > > > > > I hope all of us can continue to share the best of what we know > > but also be willing to listen > > > to the views of others without being critical or abusive. > > > > > > I wish you many happy Blue Bird miles. > > > Regards, Eric > > > 84FC35SBWL2 > > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Yo, Johnson, it's NOT an IDEA. It's on my vehicle and it > > actually works, per my oil pan > > > temp gage and my water temp gage. Nothing new about, just because > > it seems to be > > > unfamilar to you. Just returned from a 4000 mile trip to Idaho > > and am going back next > > > month so I get on down the road too. As far as temperature > > limits, that's experience, I've > > > got a lot of it and it's OK if you want to ignore it my advice, > > it's your engine. > > > > MH > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Eric Johnson > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:40 PM > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Again Chuck, > > > > Mike's idea about a spray bar will improve cooling capacity > on > > a hot, dry, day, but not > > > sure > > > > where he gets the max numbers on coolant and oil. Important > to > > remember the > > > > thermostat doesn't fully open until 185ºF. Radiator cap > > pressure rating of 7 psig, > > > altitude > > > > and coolant composition set how hot you can run the radiator > > before you boil over. > > > > Engine oil can safely operate at sustained temperatures of > 220- > > 240ºF and for shorter > > > > periods as high as 300ºF with no problems given normal oil > > changes. > > > > Regards, Eric > > > > 84FC35SBWL2 > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson" > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Chuck, > > > > > My 3208 is in the front rather than the back but your > > experiences were much like > > > mine > > > > > while climbing mountain passes in Colorado. Not sure you > can > > expect any lower > > > > > temperatures than what you're getting in hot summer > weather. > > I found on my coach > > > > that > > > > > it helps some to gear down as your speed drops off to keep > > RPM's up so the fan > > > cools > > > > > better and the engine load is reduced. > > > > > Regards, Eric > > > > > 84FC35SBWL2 > > > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "williamcharrison" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Just came back from a long trip and noticed that at every > > extended > > > > > > grade climb the temp gauge would start climbing toward > 220. > > > > > > It never reached 220 but the level increase alarms me. I > > have > > > > > > cleaned the radiator and put new belts on all around. The > > oil temp > > > > > > also climbs to about 230 (though I don't know what the > > danger level > > > > > > is). The thermostat was replaced before my first trip > this > > year > > > > > > and I had no similar problems, but then the temperature > > was in the 70's > > > > > > and on the last trip it was in the 90's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck Harrison > > > > > > Akron, Ohio > > > > > > 90SP36 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date: 8/9/2006 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Jeff Miller - 08-11-2006 13:50 No. With the 250hp in '84, there were some high-ambient- temp/towing/mountain issues with transmission temperatures, BB recognized this and offered an upgrade to an external trans cooler like the '87-'89 had, ... abandoning the in-radiator cooler and adding the new one to the outlet hose from the radiator. Running Allison Transynd (synthetic) or Mobil 1 synthetic will lower transmission temps, it is better at carrying the heat away from the transmission. For the transmissions with internal retarders I consider it a must, ... but that's me. Many people have no problems running with a toad and running normal thransmission temperatures, and the 4.89:1 gears are short enough that the RPMs are kept fairly high. If you end up with low RPMs and torque- converter out of lockup for extended periods, you will see higher temps. The '84-up models have a transmission temperature gauge, makes it easier to watch. - Jeff Miller in Holland, MI --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw" wrote: > > > If I read the suggestions correctly, in an FC with the 4.88 gears > and towing something an auxillary trany cooler would almost be a > must. > > Gardner Almost a be. Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Jeff Miller - 08-11-2006 14:05 The turbo engine could use a tranny cooler in more extreme conditions, but I felt that the cooler installation in Ernie's old 'bird, an air/oil cooler on the bottom surface of the RF compartment with a rock-guard was an excellent addition on the outlet of the radiator-cooler. With the 250hp, 4.63:1 gears, towing, and a lead-foot I never saw alarming temperatures in that rig running 15psi boost on any mountain I could find. The airflow under that compartment is excellent, and high-pressure (high-density), enough that you'll notice the foam insulation is eroded away on those compartments in many coaches. The air there is pressurized by the air trying to get around the front of the moving coach, and having to squeeze between the ground and bumper. The differential in speed between the coach and the road makes the air quite turbulent, also good for cooling. Try synthetic fluids also, most people on RV forums agree that it runs cooler in automatic transmissions. - Jeff Miller in Holland, MI --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson" wrote: > > Hello Ernie & Company, > I appreciate all the suggestions on installing a separate transmission cooler. From the > website Tom recommended as cooler source they recommend a two pass cooler w/ > dimensions of 22"X24"X1-1/2" plus a fan. There is quite a bit of space in between frame > rails about 1/2 way back if you mount it in a horizontal orientation above the drive shaft > and in front of retarder. Don't understand comments about the rediline compartment. > You guys thinking to cut the compartment walls away and use the space for the cooler? > Regards, Eric > 84FC35SBWL2 > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote: > > > > I believe the rediline was still in my FC. That is an excellent place for > > another air intake and you Cat would love you for the modification. > > > > Ernie Ekberg > > 83 PT40 > > Livingston, Montana > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36 - Gardner Yeaw - 08-11-2006 14:26 Jeff, Thanks. I am very green around the edges and as a result I want to be sure I don't damage anything (like the tranny) out of ignorance. Your input is appreciated very much. Gardner..Real close to a BE. --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller" > > No. > > With the 250hp in '84, there were some high-ambient- > temp/towing/mountain issues with transmission temperatures, BB > recognized this and offered an upgrade to an external trans cooler like > the '87-'89 had, ... abandoning the in-radiator cooler and adding the > new one to the outlet hose from the radiator. > > Running Allison Transynd (synthetic) or Mobil 1 synthetic will lower > transmission temps, it is better at carrying the heat away from the > transmission. For the transmissions with internal retarders I consider > it a must, ... but that's me. > > Many people have no problems running with a toad and running normal > thransmission temperatures, and the 4.89:1 gears are short enough that > the RPMs are kept fairly high. If you end up with low RPMs and torque- > converter out of lockup for extended periods, you will see higher temps. > > The '84-up models have a transmission temperature gauge, makes it > easier to watch. > > - Jeff Miller > in Holland, MI > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw" > wrote: > > > > > > If I read the suggestions correctly, in an FC with the 4.88 gears > > and towing something an auxillary trany cooler would almost be a > > must. > > > > Gardner Almost a be. > |