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+--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63)
+--- Thread: Engine & Tranny problems 2 (/showthread.php?tid=4736)
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - ronmarabito2002 - 04-27-2007 04:00
The slobber tubes come off the rocker box covers and provide a venting
of the crankcase. The blow-by is caused from compression leaking past
the rings and pressurizing the crankcase and blowing oil out through
the vents.
R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, wanderlodge@... wrote:
>
> At 04:12 PM 4/26/2007 -0000, R.E. (Ron) Marabito, TX 92WB40 wrote:
> >Another thought is that I could be experiencing more blow-by and thus
> >heating the oil more although that would probably cause me to blow oil
> >out the slobber tubes, which it does not.
> >R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
> Hey Ron, We met once, at a rally. Still birdless.
> Slobber tubes, I have heard so much about this pipe to driveway ?.
> What is source of this pipe ?
> Sorry if this is redundent question.
>
> AL
>
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - ronmarabito2002 - 04-27-2007 04:08
If the alarmstat doesn't solve or help the problem, I'll be definitely
looking at checking the radiator. Pretty majoy job however.
I would be more inclined to replace the core than rod it. I don't
want to take a chance that the transmission cooling core could leak
into the engine coolant. Just as soon have it all new.
R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
Currently in Monticello, UT and moving to Moab today.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
>
> I wonder if humid air is a better heat sink then cool air?? Here in
> California it is a common maintenance practice to pull and rod a
> radiator. The Radiator size and dynamics are set up to maintain a
> given range of temp. Too big a radiator, too cool a running temp is
> also not desired. If your rad is blocked in core or compramized on
> surface 20 or 30% I would think it could prove the 10% heat issue you
> have.???? I think pulling the radiator for rodding and inspection
> would never be a $waste even if it does not prove to be the cause of
> your heat issue
>
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptRomolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
>
> >
> > Basically the same as mine. I may stop in Albuquerque on the way
> back
> > home and pick up another alarmstat and try that. It does work, but
> > allows the temp to get to 200 before it kicks in. It then takes me
> > back to roughly 180 degrees and goes through the cycle again.
> > However, when pulling a grade, it allows the water temp to get to
> 210
> > and I don't like that.
> >
> > Your test is on pretty flat ground compared to what we are in
> > presently. Like I said, the oil temp reached 250 coming west out of
> > Durango, CO yesterday and it is not hot outside. Pretty good grade
> > but still not marked in the Western Mountain Directory.
> >
> > Another thought is that I could be experiencing more blow-by and
> thus
> > heating the oil more although that would probably cause me to blow
> oil
> > out the slobber tubes, which it does not.
> >
> > Transmission temps are just fine. Could be that I have a bad oil
> > temp. gauge or sending unit.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > Currently in Monticello, Utah and 7000 ft. elevation.
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> >
> > >
> > > That oil temperature is the absolute maximum allowable according
> to
> > my literature. My oil temperature routinely ran 235-240 on the flat
> > until I made a single change. While I haven't been able to pull a
> > grade of any consequence I have seen temperature reductions across
> the
> > board on the analog gauges.
> > >
> > > My set up is this: The radiator. In front of that is an a/c
> > condenser and the oil cooler for the power steering and the
> hydraulic
> > fan itself. The coolers cover a major part of the radiator cooling
> > surface. Water from the radiator is dispersed to the tranny,
> retarder
> > and engine oil cooler heat exchangers through a manifold to cool the
> > units. As water temp increases so does the temperature of those
> units.
> > >
> > > Earlier model BB's with the a/c condenser on the roof have the
> > benefit of cooler air ( road surface temperature, and that can be
> very
> > hot) passing over the radiator(ie.ours cools the condenser first
> and
> > then cools the radiator with the same road surface air.) That
> > indicates the air going through our radiator is proportionately
> > hotter than on earlier models. You can cut off the chassis a/c or
> > increase the air flow which you are doing with the fan override. In
> > theory, once water temperatures reach 195 degrees the Alarmstat
> should
> > place the fan in high mode and keep it on until temperatures back
> off
> > to about 187 degrees at which time the fan goes to idle mode. If it
> > never gets to 187 the fan should continue running full force and
> yield
> > the same results as the fan override.
> > >
> > > I'll post my temperatures Tuesday after our run to Talladega.
> They
> > will be actual realtime temps taken off the VMSpc from the DDEC as
> it
> > is receiving them. I have been jacking around with my system
> through
> > the winter and am interested to see the results.
> > >
> > > Your cooling issue could be the Alarmstat or a combination of that
> > and the radiator. I am currently working on the plumbing for my
> > radiator water flood system just in case I need it. MH gave me that
> > idea. If I lived in the Mountain West I for sure would have a
> > waterflood system to pull the mountains.
> > >
> > > I'm using a 190 degree Alarmstat now.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > Niceville, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: ronmarabito2002
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:56 PM
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> > >
> > >
> > > I've been suspicious that that could be the problem also, but
> with the
> > > fan on manual, the water temp is just fine and only gets to
> about 195
> > > when pulling a real good grade. The oil temp is more of a
> concern
> > > though and could be related to part of the radiator not cooling
> and
> > > can't handle the build-up. On a good grade, the oil temp is
> reaching
> > > around 250 degrees. Of course, we don't know how good the analog
> > > guage is either.
> > >
> > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > Currently in Monticello, Utah.
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to hear you are back rolling along. Did you pick up
> a bad
> > > load of fuel?
> > > > Running a little warm. It sounds like you were not using the
> > > chassis air. When you get ready and before pulling the radiator
> I'll
> > > tell you what I did on my coach. I imagine the systems are
> similar.
> > > I'm leaving on a trip tomorrow and will chart temperatures
> taken from
> > > the DDL through VMSpc and report them Tuesday.
> > > > I had been running a little warm and the problem turned out
> to be
> > > the Alarmstat not working correctly.
> > > >
> > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > Niceville, FL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: ronmarabito2002
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:33 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Dan for posting the update.
> > > >
> > > > I got the coach back on the road yesterday a few dollars
> poorer, but
> > > > not as bad as I thought it might be.
> > > >
> > > > Clogged fuel filter was the primary power problem. They
> finally
> > > > decided that unless they could duplicate the electrical
> > anomolly, they
> > > > were unable to diagnose the cause. They couldn't duplicate the
> > tranny
> > > > light flashing when turning left. First left turn I made after
> > > > departing the shop, Bingo, the flashing light. They said to
> ignore
> > > > the ECM Fault Code for now as everything seems to be running
> just
> > > fine.
> > > >
> > > > I am running a little warm and have put the fan in override
> mode to
> > > > make sure I keep temps under control. I've just about decided
> that I
> > > > have a radiator core replacement in the near future. With two
> other
> > > > cooling units in front of the radiator, it is very difficult
> to get
> > > > infra red temps around the radiator.
> > > >
> > > > The two house batteries that tested bad have been eliminated
> > from the
> > > > bank, so I now have the use of the other (6).
> > > >
> > > > Today, I never got the tranny light when turning hard left.
> > We'll see
> > > > how long that lasts.
> > > >
> > > > Then also today moving north on Hiway 491 towards Shiprock,
> in the
> > > > four corners area, a gravel truck passed me going the other
> way
> > and I
> > > > got 11 hits on the windshield. The driver side will
> definitely have
> > > > to be replaced.
> > > >
> > > > This is beginning to be the trip from Hell. Hope things
> settle down.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > Currently in Monticello, Utah and planning to play golf
> tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L.
> Fullenwider"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the update Dan.
> > > > >
> > > > > Safe travels,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > > > 84FC35
> > > > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > > > >
> > > > > At 08:28 PM 4/24/2007 +0000, you wrote:
> > > > > >Ron and Shirley are back on the road and headed towards
> > Gallup NM.
> > > > > >Ron will give a update when he has internet access.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dan, Albuquerque NM
> > > > > >BB BMC 37'
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just talked to the shop. Nothing on the electrical at
> this
> > > point,
> > > > > >but
> > > > > > > they found low fuel pressure, changed filters. I had
> asked
> > > them to
> > > > > > > change the air filter anyway, because it was needing it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They found a hole in one of the turbo boost pipes and
> > > repaired it.
> > > > > > > That alone could have caused some of the power loss. It
> says
> > > > > >nothing
> > > > > > > about the crazy throttle response where at full
> throttle, we
> > > only
> > > > > >got
> > > > > > > 1900 rpm and when backed off, we got the full 2200 rpm.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are getting ready to go do a new throttle response
> > test and
> > > > > >power
> > > > > > > test. I will talk with the manager shortly to see about
> > > having the
> > > > > > > batteries isolated and tested.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > More info a little later. I will not have internet in a
> little
> > > > > >while,
> > > > > > > so I may have to update you when I can find service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - bloomas - 04-27-2007 05:36
----- Original Message -----
From: ronmarabito2002
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
Ron I also replace the radiator core in 04/02 it
made a big difference.
Bob Loomas 1985 PT 36
If the alarmstat doesn't solve or help the problem, I'll be definitely
looking at checking the radiator. Pretty majoy job however.
I would be more inclined to replace the core than rod it. I don't
want to take a chance that the transmission cooling core could leak
into the engine coolant. Just as soon have it all new.
R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
Currently in Monticello, UT and moving to Moab today.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
>
> I wonder if humid air is a better heat sink then cool air?? Here in
> California it is a common maintenance practice to pull and rod a
> radiator. The Radiator size and dynamics are set up to maintain a
> given range of temp. Too big a radiator, too cool a running temp is
> also not desired. If your rad is blocked in core or compramized on
> surface 20 or 30% I would think it could prove the 10% heat issue you
> have.???? I think pulling the radiator for rodding and inspection
> would never be a $waste even if it does not prove to be the cause of
> your heat issue
>
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptRomolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
>
> >
> > Basically the same as mine. I may stop in Albuquerque on the way
> back
> > home and pick up another alarmstat and try that. It does work, but
> > allows the temp to get to 200 before it kicks in. It then takes me
> > back to roughly 180 degrees and goes through the cycle again.
> > However, when pulling a grade, it allows the water temp to get to
> 210
> > and I don't like that.
> >
> > Your test is on pretty flat ground compared to what we are in
> > presently. Like I said, the oil temp reached 250 coming west out of
> > Durango, CO yesterday and it is not hot outside. Pretty good grade
> > but still not marked in the Western Mountain Directory.
> >
> > Another thought is that I could be experiencing more blow-by and
> thus
> > heating the oil more although that would probably cause me to blow
> oil
> > out the slobber tubes, which it does not.
> >
> > Transmission temps are just fine. Could be that I have a bad oil
> > temp. gauge or sending unit.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > Currently in Monticello, Utah and 7000 ft. elevation.
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> >
> > >
> > > That oil temperature is the absolute maximum allowable according
> to
> > my literature. My oil temperature routinely ran 235-240 on the flat
> > until I made a single change. While I haven't been able to pull a
> > grade of any consequence I have seen temperature reductions across
> the
> > board on the analog gauges.
> > >
> > > My set up is this: The radiator. In front of that is an a/c
> > condenser and the oil cooler for the power steering and the
> hydraulic
> > fan itself. The coolers cover a major part of the radiator cooling
> > surface. Water from the radiator is dispersed to the tranny,
> retarder
> > and engine oil cooler heat exchangers through a manifold to cool the
> > units. As water temp increases so does the temperature of those
> units.
> > >
> > > Earlier model BB's with the a/c condenser on the roof have the
> > benefit of cooler air ( road surface temperature, and that can be
> very
> > hot) passing over the radiator(ie.ours cools the condenser first
> and
> > then cools the radiator with the same road surface air.) That
> > indicates the air going through our radiator is proportionately
> > hotter than on earlier models. You can cut off the chassis a/c or
> > increase the air flow which you are doing with the fan override. In
> > theory, once water temperatures reach 195 degrees the Alarmstat
> should
> > place the fan in high mode and keep it on until temperatures back
> off
> > to about 187 degrees at which time the fan goes to idle mode. If it
> > never gets to 187 the fan should continue running full force and
> yield
> > the same results as the fan override.
> > >
> > > I'll post my temperatures Tuesday after our run to Talladega.
> They
> > will be actual realtime temps taken off the VMSpc from the DDEC as
> it
> > is receiving them. I have been jacking around with my system
> through
> > the winter and am interested to see the results.
> > >
> > > Your cooling issue could be the Alarmstat or a combination of that
> > and the radiator. I am currently working on the plumbing for my
> > radiator water flood system just in case I need it. MH gave me that
> > idea. If I lived in the Mountain West I for sure would have a
> > waterflood system to pull the mountains.
> > >
> > > I'm using a 190 degree Alarmstat now.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > Niceville, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: ronmarabito2002
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:56 PM
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> > >
> > >
> > > I've been suspicious that that could be the problem also, but
> with the
> > > fan on manual, the water temp is just fine and only gets to
> about 195
> > > when pulling a real good grade. The oil temp is more of a
> concern
> > > though and could be related to part of the radiator not cooling
> and
> > > can't handle the build-up. On a good grade, the oil temp is
> reaching
> > > around 250 degrees. Of course, we don't know how good the analog
> > > guage is either.
> > >
> > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > Currently in Monticello, Utah.
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to hear you are back rolling along. Did you pick up
> a bad
> > > load of fuel?
> > > > Running a little warm. It sounds like you were not using the
> > > chassis air. When you get ready and before pulling the radiator
> I'll
> > > tell you what I did on my coach. I imagine the systems are
> similar.
> > > I'm leaving on a trip tomorrow and will chart temperatures
> taken from
> > > the DDL through VMSpc and report them Tuesday.
> > > > I had been running a little warm and the problem turned out
> to be
> > > the Alarmstat not working correctly.
> > > >
> > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > Niceville, FL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: ronmarabito2002
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:33 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Dan for posting the update.
> > > >
> > > > I got the coach back on the road yesterday a few dollars
> poorer, but
> > > > not as bad as I thought it might be.
> > > >
> > > > Clogged fuel filter was the primary power problem. They
> finally
> > > > decided that unless they could duplicate the electrical
> > anomolly, they
> > > > were unable to diagnose the cause. They couldn't duplicate the
> > tranny
> > > > light flashing when turning left. First left turn I made after
> > > > departing the shop, Bingo, the flashing light. They said to
> ignore
> > > > the ECM Fault Code for now as everything seems to be running
> just
> > > fine.
> > > >
> > > > I am running a little warm and have put the fan in override
> mode to
> > > > make sure I keep temps under control. I've just about decided
> that I
> > > > have a radiator core replacement in the near future. With two
> other
> > > > cooling units in front of the radiator, it is very difficult
> to get
> > > > infra red temps around the radiator.
> > > >
> > > > The two house batteries that tested bad have been eliminated
> > from the
> > > > bank, so I now have the use of the other (6).
> > > >
> > > > Today, I never got the tranny light when turning hard left.
> > We'll see
> > > > how long that lasts.
> > > >
> > > > Then also today moving north on Hiway 491 towards Shiprock,
> in the
> > > > four corners area, a gravel truck passed me going the other
> way
> > and I
> > > > got 11 hits on the windshield. The driver side will
> definitely have
> > > > to be replaced.
> > > >
> > > > This is beginning to be the trip from Hell. Hope things
> settle down.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > Currently in Monticello, Utah and planning to play golf
> tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L.
> Fullenwider"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the update Dan.
> > > > >
> > > > > Safe travels,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > > > 84FC35
> > > > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > > > >
> > > > > At 08:28 PM 4/24/2007 +0000, you wrote:
> > > > > >Ron and Shirley are back on the road and headed towards
> > Gallup NM.
> > > > > >Ron will give a update when he has internet access.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dan, Albuquerque NM
> > > > > >BB BMC 37'
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just talked to the shop. Nothing on the electrical at
> this
> > > point,
> > > > > >but
> > > > > > > they found low fuel pressure, changed filters. I had
> asked
> > > them to
> > > > > > > change the air filter anyway, because it was needing it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They found a hole in one of the turbo boost pipes and
> > > repaired it.
> > > > > > > That alone could have caused some of the power loss. It
> says
> > > > > >nothing
> > > > > > > about the crazy throttle response where at full
> throttle, we
> > > only
> > > > > >got
> > > > > > > 1900 rpm and when backed off, we got the full 2200 rpm.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are getting ready to go do a new throttle response
> > test and
> > > > > >power
> > > > > > > test. I will talk with the manager shortly to see about
> > > having the
> > > > > > > batteries isolated and tested.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > More info a little later. I will not have internet in a
> little
> > > > > >while,
> > > > > > > so I may have to update you when I can find service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - ronmarabito2002 - 04-27-2007 10:48
Thanks Bob for both messages.
R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
Currently in Moab, Utah till the 6th of May
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bloomas"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ronmarabito2002
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:08 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> Ron I also replace the radiator core in 04/02 it
> made a big difference.
> Bob Loomas 1985 PT 36
>
>
> If the alarmstat doesn't solve or help the problem, I'll be definitely
> looking at checking the radiator. Pretty majoy job however.
>
> I would be more inclined to replace the core than rod it. I don't
> want to take a chance that the transmission cooling core could leak
> into the engine coolant. Just as soon have it all new.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> Currently in Monticello, UT and moving to Moab today.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
>
> >
> > I wonder if humid air is a better heat sink then cool air?? Here in
> > California it is a common maintenance practice to pull and rod a
> > radiator. The Radiator size and dynamics are set up to maintain a
> > given range of temp. Too big a radiator, too cool a running temp is
> > also not desired. If your rad is blocked in core or compramized on
> > surface 20 or 30% I would think it could prove the 10% heat
issue you
> > have.???? I think pulling the radiator for rodding and inspection
> > would never be a $waste even if it does not prove to be the
cause of
> > your heat issue
> >
> > GregoryO'Connor
> > 94ptRomolandCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> >
> > >
> > > Basically the same as mine. I may stop in Albuquerque on the way
> > back
> > > home and pick up another alarmstat and try that. It does work, but
> > > allows the temp to get to 200 before it kicks in. It then takes me
> > > back to roughly 180 degrees and goes through the cycle again.
> > > However, when pulling a grade, it allows the water temp to get to
> > 210
> > > and I don't like that.
> > >
> > > Your test is on pretty flat ground compared to what we are in
> > > presently. Like I said, the oil temp reached 250 coming west
out of
> > > Durango, CO yesterday and it is not hot outside. Pretty good grade
> > > but still not marked in the Western Mountain Directory.
> > >
> > > Another thought is that I could be experiencing more blow-by and
> > thus
> > > heating the oil more although that would probably cause me to
blow
> > oil
> > > out the slobber tubes, which it does not.
> > >
> > > Transmission temps are just fine. Could be that I have a bad oil
> > > temp. gauge or sending unit.
> > >
> > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > Currently in Monticello, Utah and 7000 ft. elevation.
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> > >
> > > >
> > > > That oil temperature is the absolute maximum allowable
according
> > to
> > > my literature. My oil temperature routinely ran 235-240 on the
flat
> > > until I made a single change. While I haven't been able to pull a
> > > grade of any consequence I have seen temperature reductions
across
> > the
> > > board on the analog gauges.
> > > >
> > > > My set up is this: The radiator. In front of that is an a/c
> > > condenser and the oil cooler for the power steering and the
> > hydraulic
> > > fan itself. The coolers cover a major part of the radiator cooling
> > > surface. Water from the radiator is dispersed to the tranny,
> > retarder
> > > and engine oil cooler heat exchangers through a manifold to
cool the
> > > units. As water temp increases so does the temperature of those
> > units.
> > > >
> > > > Earlier model BB's with the a/c condenser on the roof have the
> > > benefit of cooler air ( road surface temperature, and that can be
> > very
> > > hot) passing over the radiator(ie.ours cools the condenser first
> > and
> > > then cools the radiator with the same road surface air.) That
> > > indicates the air going through our radiator is proportionately
> > > hotter than on earlier models. You can cut off the chassis a/c or
> > > increase the air flow which you are doing with the fan
override. In
> > > theory, once water temperatures reach 195 degrees the Alarmstat
> > should
> > > place the fan in high mode and keep it on until temperatures back
> > off
> > > to about 187 degrees at which time the fan goes to idle mode.
If it
> > > never gets to 187 the fan should continue running full force and
> > yield
> > > the same results as the fan override.
> > > >
> > > > I'll post my temperatures Tuesday after our run to Talladega.
> > They
> > > will be actual realtime temps taken off the VMSpc from the
DDEC as
> > it
> > > is receiving them. I have been jacking around with my system
> > through
> > > the winter and am interested to see the results.
> > > >
> > > > Your cooling issue could be the Alarmstat or a combination
of that
> > > and the radiator. I am currently working on the plumbing for my
> > > radiator water flood system just in case I need it. MH gave me
that
> > > idea. If I lived in the Mountain West I for sure would have a
> > > waterflood system to pull the mountains.
> > > >
> > > > I'm using a 190 degree Alarmstat now.
> > > >
> > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > Niceville, FL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: ronmarabito2002
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:56 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've been suspicious that that could be the problem also, but
> > with the
> > > > fan on manual, the water temp is just fine and only gets to
> > about 195
> > > > when pulling a real good grade. The oil temp is more of a
> > concern
> > > > though and could be related to part of the radiator not cooling
> > and
> > > > can't handle the build-up. On a good grade, the oil temp is
> > reaching
> > > > around 250 degrees. Of course, we don't know how good the analog
> > > > guage is either.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > Currently in Monticello, Utah.
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm happy to hear you are back rolling along. Did you pick up
> > a bad
> > > > load of fuel?
> > > > > Running a little warm. It sounds like you were not using the
> > > > chassis air. When you get ready and before pulling the radiator
> > I'll
> > > > tell you what I did on my coach. I imagine the systems are
> > similar.
> > > > I'm leaving on a trip tomorrow and will chart temperatures
> > taken from
> > > > the DDL through VMSpc and report them Tuesday.
> > > > > I had been running a little warm and the problem turned out
> > to be
> > > > the Alarmstat not working correctly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > > Niceville, FL
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: ronmarabito2002
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:33 PM
> > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Dan for posting the update.
> > > > >
> > > > > I got the coach back on the road yesterday a few dollars
> > poorer, but
> > > > > not as bad as I thought it might be.
> > > > >
> > > > > Clogged fuel filter was the primary power problem. They
> > finally
> > > > > decided that unless they could duplicate the electrical
> > > anomolly, they
> > > > > were unable to diagnose the cause. They couldn't duplicate the
> > > tranny
> > > > > light flashing when turning left. First left turn I made after
> > > > > departing the shop, Bingo, the flashing light. They said to
> > ignore
> > > > > the ECM Fault Code for now as everything seems to be running
> > just
> > > > fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am running a little warm and have put the fan in override
> > mode to
> > > > > make sure I keep temps under control. I've just about decided
> > that I
> > > > > have a radiator core replacement in the near future. With two
> > other
> > > > > cooling units in front of the radiator, it is very difficult
> > to get
> > > > > infra red temps around the radiator.
> > > > >
> > > > > The two house batteries that tested bad have been eliminated
> > > from the
> > > > > bank, so I now have the use of the other (6).
> > > > >
> > > > > Today, I never got the tranny light when turning hard left.
> > > We'll see
> > > > > how long that lasts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then also today moving north on Hiway 491 towards Shiprock,
> > in the
> > > > > four corners area, a gravel truck passed me going the other
> > way
> > > and I
> > > > > got 11 hits on the windshield. The driver side will
> > definitely have
> > > > > to be replaced.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is beginning to be the trip from Hell. Hope things
> > settle down.
> > > > >
> > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > > Currently in Monticello, Utah and planning to play golf
> > tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L.
> > Fullenwider"
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the update Dan.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Safe travels,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > > > > 84FC35
> > > > > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 08:28 PM 4/24/2007 +0000, you wrote:
> > > > > > >Ron and Shirley are back on the road and headed towards
> > > Gallup NM.
> > > > > > >Ron will give a update when he has internet access.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Dan, Albuquerque NM
> > > > > > >BB BMC 37'
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just talked to the shop. Nothing on the electrical at
> > this
> > > > point,
> > > > > > >but
> > > > > > > > they found low fuel pressure, changed filters. I had
> > asked
> > > > them to
> > > > > > > > change the air filter anyway, because it was needing it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They found a hole in one of the turbo boost pipes and
> > > > repaired it.
> > > > > > > > That alone could have caused some of the power loss. It
> > says
> > > > > > >nothing
> > > > > > > > about the crazy throttle response where at full
> > throttle, we
> > > > only
> > > > > > >got
> > > > > > > > 1900 rpm and when backed off, we got the full 2200 rpm.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are getting ready to go do a new throttle response
> > > test and
> > > > > > >power
> > > > > > > > test. I will talk with the manager shortly to see about
> > > > having the
> > > > > > > > batteries isolated and tested.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > More info a little later. I will not have internet in a
> > little
> > > > > > >while,
> > > > > > > > so I may have to update you when I can find service.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - Leroy Eckert - 04-30-2007 07:55
Hey Greg:
I just got back from the largest redneck party in the universe that is
Talladega.
I have a lot of raw data that I collected on the trip that I will be posting as
soon as I can organize it into a chart. Hopefully tonight. I even got to pull
some bunny hills in the Birmingham area.
For a while I have known that Alarmstat value artificially pushes water temp,
tranny temp, retarder temp and engine oil temps higher.
As well, I have always thought the fan override robs power and have always used
fan override as you do, to cool the components. I may be rethinking that now.
One very interesting piece of data that I collected is this. In all three
configurations, Alarmsat controlled, chassis a/c on(fan at 1800rpm) and fan
override on(1800 RPM, chassis a/c off and out of the system) , I was able to
pull 501HP and 1447FtLbs of torque at 100% throttle, engine load 100%. Those
are the top numbers. Boost was 22psi. These numbers occurred at about 1900 rpm.
It is hard to drive the bus and write but these numbers are very close.
My analog gauges are closer than one could have imagined.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory OConnor
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
Leroy, I like the idea of the Rad irrigation system. I thought of
using grey water but Mike noted that not much water was needed. I
think you will need several sprays as the airflow dynamics will
change dramatically with a 2,000 rpm driven fan.
Fan override allow the operator to screw up the cooling system
engineering real time. I use it to keep the fan from cycling on and
off and I use it to cool the tranny on a retarder held hill decend as
I am not sure the tranny temp will turn the fan on. I ( now) always
wait for the bus to turn the fan on and keep it on via the override
if I think the road will remain hard climbing. Folks that turn the
fan on prior to a hill climb rob the ground drive of almost 10 % of
the HP that is used up running the fan. I am interested in seeing
your results Temp vs temp vs rpm at a given stress and ambient.
GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> That oil temperature is the absolute maximum allowable according to
my literature. My oil temperature routinely ran 235-240 on the flat
until I made a single change. While I haven't been able to pull a
grade of any consequence I have seen temperature reductions across
the board on the analog gauges.
>
> My set up is this: The radiator. In front of that is an a/c
condenser and the oil cooler for the power steering and the hydraulic
fan itself. The coolers cover a major part of the radiator cooling
surface. Water from the radiator is dispersed to the tranny,
retarder and engine oil cooler heat exchangers through a manifold to
cool the units. As water temp increases so does the temperature of
those units.
>
> Earlier model BB's with the a/c condenser on the roof have the
benefit of cooler air ( road surface temperature, and that can be
very hot) passing over the radiator(ie.ours cools the condenser
first and then cools the radiator with the same road surface air.)
That indicates the air going through our radiator is proportionately
hotter than on earlier models. You can cut off the chassis a/c or
increase the air flow which you are doing with the fan override. In
theory, once water temperatures reach 195 degrees the Alarmstat
should place the fan in high mode and keep it on until temperatures
back off to about 187 degrees at which time the fan goes to idle
mode. If it never gets to 187 the fan should continue running full
force and yield the same results as the fan override.
>
> I'll post my temperatures Tuesday after our run to Talladega.
They will be actual realtime temps taken off the VMSpc from the DDEC
as it is receiving them. I have been jacking around with my system
through the winter and am interested to see the results.
>
> Your cooling issue could be the Alarmstat or a combination of that
and the radiator. I am currently working on the plumbing for my
radiator water flood system just in case I need it. MH gave me that
idea. If I lived in the Mountain West I for sure would have a
waterflood system to pull the mountains.
>
> I'm using a 190 degree Alarmstat now.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ronmarabito2002
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:56 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
>
>
> I've been suspicious that that could be the problem also, but
with the
> fan on manual, the water temp is just fine and only gets to about
195
> when pulling a real good grade. The oil temp is more of a concern
> though and could be related to part of the radiator not cooling
and
> can't handle the build-up. On a good grade, the oil temp is
reaching
> around 250 degrees. Of course, we don't know how good the analog
> guage is either.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> Currently in Monticello, Utah.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> >
> > I'm happy to hear you are back rolling along. Did you pick up a
bad
> load of fuel?
> > Running a little warm. It sounds like you were not using the
> chassis air. When you get ready and before pulling the radiator
I'll
> tell you what I did on my coach. I imagine the systems are
similar.
> I'm leaving on a trip tomorrow and will chart temperatures taken
from
> the DDL through VMSpc and report them Tuesday.
> > I had been running a little warm and the problem turned out to
be
> the Alarmstat not working correctly.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > Niceville, FL
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ronmarabito2002
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:33 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> >
> >
> > Thanks Dan for posting the update.
> >
> > I got the coach back on the road yesterday a few dollars
poorer, but
> > not as bad as I thought it might be.
> >
> > Clogged fuel filter was the primary power problem. They finally
> > decided that unless they could duplicate the electrical
anomolly, they
> > were unable to diagnose the cause. They couldn't duplicate the
tranny
> > light flashing when turning left. First left turn I made after
> > departing the shop, Bingo, the flashing light. They said to
ignore
> > the ECM Fault Code for now as everything seems to be running
just
> fine.
> >
> > I am running a little warm and have put the fan in override
mode to
> > make sure I keep temps under control. I've just about decided
that I
> > have a radiator core replacement in the near future. With two
other
> > cooling units in front of the radiator, it is very difficult to
get
> > infra red temps around the radiator.
> >
> > The two house batteries that tested bad have been eliminated
from the
> > bank, so I now have the use of the other (6).
> >
> > Today, I never got the tranny light when turning hard left.
We'll see
> > how long that lasts.
> >
> > Then also today moving north on Hiway 491 towards Shiprock, in
the
> > four corners area, a gravel truck passed me going the other way
and I
> > got 11 hits on the windshield. The driver side will definitely
have
> > to be replaced.
> >
> > This is beginning to be the trip from Hell. Hope things settle
down.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > Currently in Monticello, Utah and planning to play golf
tomorrow.
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the update Dan.
> > >
> > > Safe travels,
> > >
> > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > 84FC35
> > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > >
> > > At 08:28 PM 4/24/2007 +0000, you wrote:
> > > >Ron and Shirley are back on the road and headed towards
Gallup NM.
> > > >Ron will give a update when he has internet access.
> > > >
> > > >Dan, Albuquerque NM
> > > >BB BMC 37'
> > > >
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just talked to the shop. Nothing on the electrical at this
> point,
> > > >but
> > > > > they found low fuel pressure, changed filters. I had asked
> them to
> > > > > change the air filter anyway, because it was needing it.
> > > > >
> > > > > They found a hole in one of the turbo boost pipes and
> repaired it.
> > > > > That alone could have caused some of the power loss. It
says
> > > >nothing
> > > > > about the crazy throttle response where at full throttle,
we
> only
> > > >got
> > > > > 1900 rpm and when backed off, we got the full 2200 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are getting ready to go do a new throttle response
test and
> > > >power
> > > > > test. I will talk with the manager shortly to see about
> having the
> > > > > batteries isolated and tested.
> > > > >
> > > > > More info a little later. I will not have internet in a
little
> > > >while,
> > > > > so I may have to update you when I can find service.
> > > > >
> > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - Leroy Eckert - 04-30-2007 13:45
Raw Info: For anyone interested- Various Temperatures
1990 8v92 DDEC II TAC, Allison HT-755CR 5 Speed
1990 WB-40 recorded 4/26 and 4/30 over 471SM
Data recorded at OAT- 87F(except as noted in a thunderstorm)
All Data Recorded on the Flat at 67 MPH except as noted.
Alarmstat Controlled-No Chassis a/c(190 degree Alarmstat installed)(Factory is
195 degrees)
Analog (a)
Gauges VMSpc Boost Pyro MPG
Water Temp
High 190 191 6 510 6.0
Low 182(b) 182 6 510 6.0
Engine Oil 225 n/a©
Tranny 170 n/a
Retarder 230 n/a
Chassis a/c On( Fan Approx 1800 RPM)
Water Temp
Stable 180 182 6 510 6.0
Oil Temp 220 n/a
Tranny 170 n/a
Retarder 230 n/a
Fan Override On-Chassis A/C Off(Fan approx 1800 RPM)
Water Temp
Stable 175 177 6 510 6.0
Oil Temp 215 n/a
Tranny 170 n/a
Retarder 230 n/a
Maximum Water Temp 193 one mile grade
Maximum Pyro Temp 625 one mile grade
(a) Reading Received from DDEC II real time through VMSpc
(b) Interpolated using marking tape on the gauges
© Not available from VMSpc on DDEC II
Boost Analysis Boost MPH MPG
Rate 6 60 6.0
6 65 5.8
20 65 2.3
Recorded from DDEC II through VMSpc
Gauge Analysis Analog GPS VMSpc
Speedometer(MPH) 45 45 45.1
55 55 55
65 65 64.9
Real Time Power
Analysis Max HP Max Torque Throttle Boost
Alarmstat 501 1447 100% 22
Chassis a/c on 501 1447 100% 22
Fan Override on 501 1447 100% 22
Trip Odometer Odometer GPS Var %
Trip 473.3 471.17 2.13 .004
Speedo Miles 481.0 471.17 9.83 .02
Oil Pressure- From VMSpc Real Time DDEC II
Max Hot- 72psi
Idle Hot 16psi
Fuel Temperature- 96.5
Water Temperature Decrease in a Driving Rain- 11 degrees
This makes my head hurt but it supports my theory that a 195 degree Alarmstat
artificially increases water temperature to the upper limit of 210 degrees. The
data also supports that air flow is King here particularly for those folks in
the West.
Alarmstat---My theory- A 195 degree Alarmstat is behind the temperature power
curve air flow wise and does not have a chance in an extended grade climb. The
radiator cooling water must traverse numerous feet of hose to cool all of the
components, tranny, retarder, oil etc.. By the time the fan comes on it cannot
cool it efficiently. The Alarmstat has a 8-10 degree operating range.
It is quite possible that humid air cools more rapidly than dry air.
Evaporating moisture, rain storm, man made water flood may help supercool the
radiator. I'm not an engineer but I am looking very closely at the above
numbers.
My bus seems to like these numbers. I know I do. I have very little residue
from my slobber tubes which in my opinion means lower temps and less blow by.
I find it very interesting that HP and Torque is virtually unchanged in the
three possible fan configurations.
I do not suggest you do what I have done. I have reported the actual numbers
for your study over a beer. lol
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory OConnor
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
Leroy, I like the idea of the Rad irrigation system. I thought of
using grey water but Mike noted that not much water was needed. I
think you will need several sprays as the airflow dynamics will
change dramatically with a 2,000 rpm driven fan.
Fan override allow the operator to screw up the cooling system
engineering real time. I use it to keep the fan from cycling on and
off and I use it to cool the tranny on a retarder held hill decend as
I am not sure the tranny temp will turn the fan on. I ( now) always
wait for the bus to turn the fan on and keep it on via the override
if I think the road will remain hard climbing. Folks that turn the
fan on prior to a hill climb rob the ground drive of almost 10 % of
the HP that is used up running the fan. I am interested in seeing
your results Temp vs temp vs rpm at a given stress and ambient.
GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> That oil temperature is the absolute maximum allowable according to
my literature. My oil temperature routinely ran 235-240 on the flat
until I made a single change. While I haven't been able to pull a
grade of any consequence I have seen temperature reductions across
the board on the analog gauges.
>
> My set up is this: The radiator. In front of that is an a/c
condenser and the oil cooler for the power steering and the hydraulic
fan itself. The coolers cover a major part of the radiator cooling
surface. Water from the radiator is dispersed to the tranny,
retarder and engine oil cooler heat exchangers through a manifold to
cool the units. As water temp increases so does the temperature of
those units.
>
> Earlier model BB's with the a/c condenser on the roof have the
benefit of cooler air ( road surface temperature, and that can be
very hot) passing over the radiator(ie.ours cools the condenser
first and then cools the radiator with the same road surface air.)
That indicates the air going through our radiator is proportionately
hotter than on earlier models. You can cut off the chassis a/c or
increase the air flow which you are doing with the fan override. In
theory, once water temperatures reach 195 degrees the Alarmstat
should place the fan in high mode and keep it on until temperatures
back off to about 187 degrees at which time the fan goes to idle
mode. If it never gets to 187 the fan should continue running full
force and yield the same results as the fan override.
>
> I'll post my temperatures Tuesday after our run to Talladega.
They will be actual realtime temps taken off the VMSpc from the DDEC
as it is receiving them. I have been jacking around with my system
through the winter and am interested to see the results.
>
> Your cooling issue could be the Alarmstat or a combination of that
and the radiator. I am currently working on the plumbing for my
radiator water flood system just in case I need it. MH gave me that
idea. If I lived in the Mountain West I for sure would have a
waterflood system to pull the mountains.
>
> I'm using a 190 degree Alarmstat now.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ronmarabito2002
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:56 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
>
>
> I've been suspicious that that could be the problem also, but
with the
> fan on manual, the water temp is just fine and only gets to about
195
> when pulling a real good grade. The oil temp is more of a concern
> though and could be related to part of the radiator not cooling
and
> can't handle the build-up. On a good grade, the oil temp is
reaching
> around 250 degrees. Of course, we don't know how good the analog
> guage is either.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> Currently in Monticello, Utah.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> >
> > I'm happy to hear you are back rolling along. Did you pick up a
bad
> load of fuel?
> > Running a little warm. It sounds like you were not using the
> chassis air. When you get ready and before pulling the radiator
I'll
> tell you what I did on my coach. I imagine the systems are
similar.
> I'm leaving on a trip tomorrow and will chart temperatures taken
from
> the DDL through VMSpc and report them Tuesday.
> > I had been running a little warm and the problem turned out to
be
> the Alarmstat not working correctly.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > Niceville, FL
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ronmarabito2002
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:33 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> >
> >
> > Thanks Dan for posting the update.
> >
> > I got the coach back on the road yesterday a few dollars
poorer, but
> > not as bad as I thought it might be.
> >
> > Clogged fuel filter was the primary power problem. They finally
> > decided that unless they could duplicate the electrical
anomolly, they
> > were unable to diagnose the cause. They couldn't duplicate the
tranny
> > light flashing when turning left. First left turn I made after
> > departing the shop, Bingo, the flashing light. They said to
ignore
> > the ECM Fault Code for now as everything seems to be running
just
> fine.
> >
> > I am running a little warm and have put the fan in override
mode to
> > make sure I keep temps under control. I've just about decided
that I
> > have a radiator core replacement in the near future. With two
other
> > cooling units in front of the radiator, it is very difficult to
get
> > infra red temps around the radiator.
> >
> > The two house batteries that tested bad have been eliminated
from the
> > bank, so I now have the use of the other (6).
> >
> > Today, I never got the tranny light when turning hard left.
We'll see
> > how long that lasts.
> >
> > Then also today moving north on Hiway 491 towards Shiprock, in
the
> > four corners area, a gravel truck passed me going the other way
and I
> > got 11 hits on the windshield. The driver side will definitely
have
> > to be replaced.
> >
> > This is beginning to be the trip from Hell. Hope things settle
down.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > Currently in Monticello, Utah and planning to play golf
tomorrow.
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the update Dan.
> > >
> > > Safe travels,
> > >
> > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > 84FC35
> > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > >
> > > At 08:28 PM 4/24/2007 +0000, you wrote:
> > > >Ron and Shirley are back on the road and headed towards
Gallup NM.
> > > >Ron will give a update when he has internet access.
> > > >
> > > >Dan, Albuquerque NM
> > > >BB BMC 37'
> > > >
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just talked to the shop. Nothing on the electrical at this
> point,
> > > >but
> > > > > they found low fuel pressure, changed filters. I had asked
> them to
> > > > > change the air filter anyway, because it was needing it.
> > > > >
> > > > > They found a hole in one of the turbo boost pipes and
> repaired it.
> > > > > That alone could have caused some of the power loss. It
says
> > > >nothing
> > > > > about the crazy throttle response where at full throttle,
we
> only
> > > >got
> > > > > 1900 rpm and when backed off, we got the full 2200 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are getting ready to go do a new throttle response
test and
> > > >power
> > > > > test. I will talk with the manager shortly to see about
> having the
> > > > > batteries isolated and tested.
> > > > >
> > > > > More info a little later. I will not have internet in a
little
> > > >while,
> > > > > so I may have to update you when I can find service.
> > > > >
> > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - Leroy Eckert - 04-30-2007 14:29
Well, this post did not come over worth a damn. I'll scan it and place it
somewhere else. I sent it in chart form with headings and it did not work
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Leroy Eckert
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
Raw Info: For anyone interested- Various Temperatures
1990 8v92 DDEC II TAC, Allison HT-755CR 5 Speed
1990 WB-40 recorded 4/26 and 4/30 over 471SM
Data recorded at OAT- 87F(except as noted in a thunderstorm)
All Data Recorded on the Flat at 67 MPH except as noted.
Alarmstat Controlled-No Chassis a/c(190 degree Alarmstat installed)(Factory is
195 degrees)
Analog (a)
Gauges VMSpc Boost Pyro MPG
Water Temp
High 190 191 6 510 6.0
Low 182(b) 182 6 510 6.0
Engine Oil 225 n/a©
Tranny 170 n/a
Retarder 230 n/a
Chassis a/c On( Fan Approx 1800 RPM)
Water Temp
Stable 180 182 6 510 6.0
Oil Temp 220 n/a
Tranny 170 n/a
Retarder 230 n/a
Fan Override On-Chassis A/C Off(Fan approx 1800 RPM)
Water Temp
Stable 175 177 6 510 6.0
Oil Temp 215 n/a
Tranny 170 n/a
Retarder 230 n/a
Maximum Water Temp 193 one mile grade
Maximum Pyro Temp 625 one mile grade
(a) Reading Received from DDEC II real time through VMSpc
(b) Interpolated using marking tape on the gauges
© Not available from VMSpc on DDEC II
Boost Analysis Boost MPH MPG
Rate 6 60 6.0
6 65 5.8
20 65 2.3
Recorded from DDEC II through VMSpc
Gauge Analysis Analog GPS VMSpc
Speedometer(MPH) 45 45 45.1
55 55 55
65 65 64.9
Real Time Power
Analysis Max HP Max Torque Throttle Boost
Alarmstat 501 1447 100% 22
Chassis a/c on 501 1447 100% 22
Fan Override on 501 1447 100% 22
Trip Odometer Odometer GPS Var %
Trip 473.3 471.17 2.13 .004
Speedo Miles 481.0 471.17 9.83 .02
Oil Pressure- From VMSpc Real Time DDEC II
Max Hot- 72psi
Idle Hot 16psi
Fuel Temperature- 96.5
Water Temperature Decrease in a Driving Rain- 11 degrees
This makes my head hurt but it supports my theory that a 195 degree Alarmstat
artificially increases water temperature to the upper limit of 210 degrees. The
data also supports that air flow is King here particularly for those folks in
the West.
Alarmstat---My theory- A 195 degree Alarmstat is behind the temperature power
curve air flow wise and does not have a chance in an extended grade climb. The
radiator cooling water must traverse numerous feet of hose to cool all of the
components, tranny, retarder, oil etc.. By the time the fan comes on it cannot
cool it efficiently. The Alarmstat has a 8-10 degree operating range.
It is quite possible that humid air cools more rapidly than dry air.
Evaporating moisture, rain storm, man made water flood may help supercool the
radiator. I'm not an engineer but I am looking very closely at the above
numbers.
My bus seems to like these numbers. I know I do. I have very little residue
from my slobber tubes which in my opinion means lower temps and less blow by.
I find it very interesting that HP and Torque is virtually unchanged in the
three possible fan configurations.
I do not suggest you do what I have done. I have reported the actual numbers
for your study over a beer. lol
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory OConnor
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
Leroy, I like the idea of the Rad irrigation system. I thought of
using grey water but Mike noted that not much water was needed. I
think you will need several sprays as the airflow dynamics will
change dramatically with a 2,000 rpm driven fan.
Fan override allow the operator to screw up the cooling system
engineering real time. I use it to keep the fan from cycling on and
off and I use it to cool the tranny on a retarder held hill decend as
I am not sure the tranny temp will turn the fan on. I ( now) always
wait for the bus to turn the fan on and keep it on via the override
if I think the road will remain hard climbing. Folks that turn the
fan on prior to a hill climb rob the ground drive of almost 10 % of
the HP that is used up running the fan. I am interested in seeing
your results Temp vs temp vs rpm at a given stress and ambient.
GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> That oil temperature is the absolute maximum allowable according to
my literature. My oil temperature routinely ran 235-240 on the flat
until I made a single change. While I haven't been able to pull a
grade of any consequence I have seen temperature reductions across
the board on the analog gauges.
>
> My set up is this: The radiator. In front of that is an a/c
condenser and the oil cooler for the power steering and the hydraulic
fan itself. The coolers cover a major part of the radiator cooling
surface. Water from the radiator is dispersed to the tranny,
retarder and engine oil cooler heat exchangers through a manifold to
cool the units. As water temp increases so does the temperature of
those units.
>
> Earlier model BB's with the a/c condenser on the roof have the
benefit of cooler air ( road surface temperature, and that can be
very hot) passing over the radiator(ie.ours cools the condenser
first and then cools the radiator with the same road surface air.)
That indicates the air going through our radiator is proportionately
hotter than on earlier models. You can cut off the chassis a/c or
increase the air flow which you are doing with the fan override. In
theory, once water temperatures reach 195 degrees the Alarmstat
should place the fan in high mode and keep it on until temperatures
back off to about 187 degrees at which time the fan goes to idle
mode. If it never gets to 187 the fan should continue running full
force and yield the same results as the fan override.
>
> I'll post my temperatures Tuesday after our run to Talladega.
They will be actual realtime temps taken off the VMSpc from the DDEC
as it is receiving them. I have been jacking around with my system
through the winter and am interested to see the results.
>
> Your cooling issue could be the Alarmstat or a combination of that
and the radiator. I am currently working on the plumbing for my
radiator water flood system just in case I need it. MH gave me that
idea. If I lived in the Mountain West I for sure would have a
waterflood system to pull the mountains.
>
> I'm using a 190 degree Alarmstat now.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ronmarabito2002
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:56 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
>
>
> I've been suspicious that that could be the problem also, but
with the
> fan on manual, the water temp is just fine and only gets to about
195
> when pulling a real good grade. The oil temp is more of a concern
> though and could be related to part of the radiator not cooling
and
> can't handle the build-up. On a good grade, the oil temp is
reaching
> around 250 degrees. Of course, we don't know how good the analog
> guage is either.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> Currently in Monticello, Utah.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> >
> > I'm happy to hear you are back rolling along. Did you pick up a
bad
> load of fuel?
> > Running a little warm. It sounds like you were not using the
> chassis air. When you get ready and before pulling the radiator
I'll
> tell you what I did on my coach. I imagine the systems are
similar.
> I'm leaving on a trip tomorrow and will chart temperatures taken
from
> the DDL through VMSpc and report them Tuesday.
> > I had been running a little warm and the problem turned out to
be
> the Alarmstat not working correctly.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > Niceville, FL
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ronmarabito2002
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:33 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
> >
> >
> > Thanks Dan for posting the update.
> >
> > I got the coach back on the road yesterday a few dollars
poorer, but
> > not as bad as I thought it might be.
> >
> > Clogged fuel filter was the primary power problem. They finally
> > decided that unless they could duplicate the electrical
anomolly, they
> > were unable to diagnose the cause. They couldn't duplicate the
tranny
> > light flashing when turning left. First left turn I made after
> > departing the shop, Bingo, the flashing light. They said to
ignore
> > the ECM Fault Code for now as everything seems to be running
just
> fine.
> >
> > I am running a little warm and have put the fan in override
mode to
> > make sure I keep temps under control. I've just about decided
that I
> > have a radiator core replacement in the near future. With two
other
> > cooling units in front of the radiator, it is very difficult to
get
> > infra red temps around the radiator.
> >
> > The two house batteries that tested bad have been eliminated
from the
> > bank, so I now have the use of the other (6).
> >
> > Today, I never got the tranny light when turning hard left.
We'll see
> > how long that lasts.
> >
> > Then also today moving north on Hiway 491 towards Shiprock, in
the
> > four corners area, a gravel truck passed me going the other way
and I
> > got 11 hits on the windshield. The driver side will definitely
have
> > to be replaced.
> >
> > This is beginning to be the trip from Hell. Hope things settle
down.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > Currently in Monticello, Utah and planning to play golf
tomorrow.
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the update Dan.
> > >
> > > Safe travels,
> > >
> > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > 84FC35
> > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > >
> > > At 08:28 PM 4/24/2007 +0000, you wrote:
> > > >Ron and Shirley are back on the road and headed towards
Gallup NM.
> > > >Ron will give a update when he has internet access.
> > > >
> > > >Dan, Albuquerque NM
> > > >BB BMC 37'
> > > >
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just talked to the shop. Nothing on the electrical at this
> point,
> > > >but
> > > > > they found low fuel pressure, changed filters. I had asked
> them to
> > > > > change the air filter anyway, because it was needing it.
> > > > >
> > > > > They found a hole in one of the turbo boost pipes and
> repaired it.
> > > > > That alone could have caused some of the power loss. It
says
> > > >nothing
> > > > > about the crazy throttle response where at full throttle,
we
> only
> > > >got
> > > > > 1900 rpm and when backed off, we got the full 2200 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are getting ready to go do a new throttle response
test and
> > > >power
> > > > > test. I will talk with the manager shortly to see about
> having the
> > > > > batteries isolated and tested.
> > > > >
> > > > > More info a little later. I will not have internet in a
little
> > > >while,
> > > > > so I may have to update you when I can find service.
> > > > >
> > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - Don Bradner - 05-01-2007 04:09
Did you edit the parameters for your engine? The 475 doesn't exist in the
profiles, and both HP and torque are calculated based on the engine profile - It
sounds like you are using the 500.
Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting on the road by satellite from
Lincoln City, Oregon
Headed north
On 4/30/2007 at 2:55 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>Hey Greg:
>I just got back from the largest redneck party in the universe that is
>Talladega.
> I have a lot of raw data that I collected on the trip that I will be
>posting as soon as I can organize it into a chart. Hopefully tonight. I
>even got to pull some bunny hills in the Birmingham area.
>For a while I have known that Alarmstat value artificially pushes water
>temp, tranny temp, retarder temp and engine oil temps higher.
>As well, I have always thought the fan override robs power and have always
>used fan override as you do, to cool the components. I may be rethinking
>that now. One very interesting piece of data that I collected is this.
>In all three configurations, Alarmsat controlled, chassis a/c on(fan at
>1800rpm) and fan override on(1800 RPM, chassis a/c off and out of the
>system) , I was able to pull 501HP and 1447FtLbs of torque at 100%
>throttle, engine load 100%. Those are the top numbers. Boost was 22psi.
>These numbers occurred at about 1900 rpm. It is hard to drive the bus and
>write but these numbers are very close.
>
>My analog gauges are closer than one could have imagined.
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - Leroy Eckert - 05-01-2007 07:36
I am using that because mine is not the California 450HP version, is reported
to be 475HP and there is no option for it in the program. The program gave me
the data which I really wanted to see, primarily temperatures. The numbers
received completely support my previous test results over the past 8 months.
If the engine is putting out 475HP instead of 500HP and I can change the
program I'll sure do that. Otherwise, I'll not be concerned about 25hp. If I
can change the parameters, I would only expect to see slightly lower Power
Analysis numbers distributed the same across the board in the three fan
configurations.
Pretty nice little system to monitor the engine.
Were you able to get the Raw temperature and other data that I posted from my
trip? If the program is reading the DDECII properly and I believe it is, I find
it very interesting that HP is not decreased by 10%(50hp or 47.5hp as the case
may be) when the hydraulic fan is on.
How far North are you going?
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Bradner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
Did you edit the parameters for your engine? The 475 doesn't exist in the
profiles, and both HP and torque are calculated based on the engine profile - It
sounds like you are using the 500.
Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting on the road by satellite from
Lincoln City, Oregon
Headed north
On 4/30/2007 at 2:55 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>Hey Greg:
>I just got back from the largest redneck party in the universe that is
>Talladega.
> I have a lot of raw data that I collected on the trip that I will be
>posting as soon as I can organize it into a chart. Hopefully tonight. I
>even got to pull some bunny hills in the Birmingham area.
>For a while I have known that Alarmstat value artificially pushes water
>temp, tranny temp, retarder temp and engine oil temps higher.
>As well, I have always thought the fan override robs power and have always
>used fan override as you do, to cool the components. I may be rethinking
>that now. One very interesting piece of data that I collected is this.
>In all three configurations, Alarmsat controlled, chassis a/c on(fan at
>1800rpm) and fan override on(1800 RPM, chassis a/c off and out of the
>system) , I was able to pull 501HP and 1447FtLbs of torque at 100%
>throttle, engine load 100%. Those are the top numbers. Boost was 22psi.
>These numbers occurred at about 1900 rpm. It is hard to drive the bus and
>write but these numbers are very close.
>
>My analog gauges are closer than one could have imagined.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Engine & Tranny problems 2 - Gregory OConnor - 05-01-2007 11:47
Leroy, I dont know that the HP will read less with the fan on. I
think it is more a loss of 40hp with the fan because it is directed
to the effort of running the fan at the expense of the ground drive.
When I added a jake to a truck they refered to the holding power as
HorsePower of hold???? I wonder if your computer has a way to read
the HP backpressure hold with and without the Allison Retarder? I am
curious if You and DonB have the same HP hold. I think Don has an
different Allison and a larger external retarder (like Curts 87)?????
I wait for the computer to turn on the fan in my hydrolic driven PT .
In my Dump truck Cummins N14 the fan is on an air clutch with a belt,
Like the FC's. I turn it on via a 'fan on switch' prior to a hill
(boxsprings Riverside 60/215)when I can back off of the RPM's. I
hate clutching up the fan at high rpms.
Talladega has nothing on the crowd in Fontana. When I rolled in with
my lodge a spectator said " We was gonna bring ours to stay'n but
it'sa doublewide."
GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa 'SingleWide NoSlide'
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> I am using that because mine is not the California 450HP version,
is reported to be 475HP and there is no option for it in the program.
The program gave me the data which I really wanted to see, primarily
temperatures. The numbers received completely support my previous
test results over the past 8 months.
> If the engine is putting out 475HP instead of 500HP and I can
change the program I'll sure do that. Otherwise, I'll not be
concerned about 25hp. If I can change the parameters, I would only
expect to see slightly lower Power Analysis numbers distributed the
same across the board in the three fan configurations.
> Pretty nice little system to monitor the engine.
> Were you able to get the Raw temperature and other data that I
posted from my trip? If the program is reading the DDECII properly
and I believe it is, I find it very interesting that HP is not
decreased by 10%(50hp or 47.5hp as the case may be) when the
hydraulic fan is on.
> How far North are you going?
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Bradner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
>
>
> Did you edit the parameters for your engine? The 475 doesn't
exist in the profiles, and both HP and torque are calculated based on
the engine profile - It sounds like you are using the 500.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Posting on the road by satellite from
> Lincoln City, Oregon
> Headed north
>
> On 4/30/2007 at 2:55 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> >Hey Greg:
> >I just got back from the largest redneck party in the universe
that is
> >Talladega.
> > I have a lot of raw data that I collected on the trip that I
will be
> >posting as soon as I can organize it into a chart. Hopefully
tonight. I
> >even got to pull some bunny hills in the Birmingham area.
> >For a while I have known that Alarmstat value artificially
pushes water
> >temp, tranny temp, retarder temp and engine oil temps higher.
> >As well, I have always thought the fan override robs power and
have always
> >used fan override as you do, to cool the components. I may be
rethinking
> >that now. One very interesting piece of data that I collected is
this.
> >In all three configurations, Alarmsat controlled, chassis a/c on
(fan at
> >1800rpm) and fan override on(1800 RPM, chassis a/c off and out
of the
> >system) , I was able to pull 501HP and 1447FtLbs of torque at
100%
> >throttle, engine load 100%. Those are the top numbers. Boost was
22psi.
> >These numbers occurred at about 1900 rpm. It is hard to drive
the bus and
> >write but these numbers are very close.
> >
> >My analog gauges are closer than one could have imagined.
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