+- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com)
+-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61)
+--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63)
+--- Thread: Want to buy Bluebird (/showthread.php?tid=6018)
Want to buy Bluebird - Jon - 11-26-2007 12:22
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jon"
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
>
> >
> > If you want it , buy it. If you cant afford it, borrow it.
> >
> > I understood 'Good reasons to finance stories' were
justifications
> > for making a financed purchase. A reflective look at my position
> > reveal that my "financing is for idiodt theories" ARE healing
> > justifications wence turned down for a loan.
> >
> >
> >
> > GregoryO'Connor
> > 94ptRomolandCa
> > "Motorhomes with slides are for idiots"
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright"
> >
> > >
> > > On Nov 23, 2007 1:35 PM, martingregg598
> > > >
> > > > Financing may be the way to go. Let's say that you are going
to
> > buy a
> > > > $100,000 plus BB. If you get a 20 year note at 6% interest
for
> > 100g,
> > > > the unit qualifies as a second home and you can deduct the
> > interest,
> > > > and you leave your 100g properly invested returning an
average
> > of say
> > > > 10 %, you are making a 4%- plus gain every year on your 100g
> > > > (depending on your specific tax situation).
> > >
> > > Sort of, not exactly. You need to take money out of that $100g
> every
> > > month to make the payments on the coach, so you're going to
slowly
> > > dwindle it down, reducing your return. Unless you make the
> payments
> > > out of your income, in which case I don't think you'll be all
that
> > > well off. Follow me here:
> > >
> > > In your example the payment would be $716.43 per month. If you
> take
> > > that same money and invest it at 10% over 20 years instead of
> paying
> > > it to the bank, compounded monthly you'd have almost $550k.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, if you leave your $100k in the bank for 20
> years
> > > and don't pay any extra into it because you're making payments
on
> > the
> > > coach, at the end of the 20 years you'd have about $730k.
> > >
> > > Now 730 - 550 = $180k. Interestingly enough, at the end of the
20
> > > years you'll have sent about $172k to the bank to pay for your
> $100k
> > > coach. Which leaves you only $8,000 ahead by financing it and
> > keeping
> > > your money in the bank.
> > >
> > > Let's look at the risk you get for your $8,000: You risk an
income
> > > crisis and not having the ability to repay your loan. If the
> market
> > > happens to be down about the same time, which is often the case
in
> > > financial hardships (Murphy's Law), you risk losing your
> portfolio
> > as
> > > you yank everything out in a down market to get the creditors
off
> > your
> > > back. You risk huge spikes in interest rates and fees should
you
> > miss
> > > a payment by accident.
> > >
> > > Is it worth it? Not to me. Assuming you have the discipline to
> > > re-invest the money you would have otherwise sent to the bank,
I'm
> > > paying cash for the coach and rebuilding my portfolio out of my
> > > income.
> > >
> > > Now, if you're actually able to itemize the interest out on your
> > > taxes, you might -- MIGHT -- be able to recover enough to make
it
> > > worth the effort. Typically, though, that isn't the case. The
> > standard
> > > deduction will typically be higher than the interest on the
coach
> so
> > > unless you have other major things to itemize, you're no money
> ahead
> > > with the tax man.
> > >
> > > In my experience, financing for the interest or tax savings is
> > usually
> > > a negative to zero sum game, or otherwise close enough as to
make
> it
> > > not worth the risk and/or the hassle.
> > >
> > > -Ryan
> > >
> >
> I guess I'm from the old school of financing and that is pay for it
> with cash!!! I really believe that is what is wrong with America
> economy today and that is everything is on time payments. What
> happen to the days that when you bought something and you paid for
it
> or you did not get it? Oh well if a person wants to pay 10 percent
> interest on anything than go for it but for me its cash only and
save
> paying the interest. Product of the depression with a depression
> attitude! Jon
>
> Jon
> Rebel Bird
On that cash items I was talking about I do use my credit card but
pay it oft at the end of the month. One big advantage to using the
credit card is that I have saved up enough points to take two round
trip flight anywhere in the USA for FREE this year. Jon
Rebel Bird
1978 Special
>
Want to buy Bluebird - Leroy Eckert - 11-26-2007 14:44
One needs a simultanious equation to figure out the tax man. There are far to
many variables. By the way, those points on the credit card which allow you to
fly free aren't free. It is taxable is income. After all, the good folks in DC
need their check every other week for the rest of their life. Of course, it
makes no difference if one is never audited.
Nothing is free in life, it just appears that way. lol
Jon
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jon"
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
>
> >
> > If you want it , buy it. If you cant afford it, borrow it.
> >
> > I understood 'Good reasons to finance stories' were
justifications
> > for making a financed purchase. A reflective look at my position
> > reveal that my "financing is for idiodt theories" ARE healing
> > justifications wence turned down for a loan.
> >
> >
> >
> > GregoryO'Connor
> > 94ptRomolandCa
> > "Motorhomes with slides are for idiots"
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright"
> >
> > >
> > > On Nov 23, 2007 1:35 PM, martingregg598
> > > >
> > > > Financing may be the way to go. Let's say that you are going
to
> > buy a
> > > > $100,000 plus BB. If you get a 20 year note at 6% interest
for
> > 100g,
> > > > the unit qualifies as a second home and you can deduct the
> > interest,
> > > > and you leave your 100g properly invested returning an
average
> > of say
> > > > 10 %, you are making a 4%- plus gain every year on your 100g
> > > > (depending on your specific tax situation).
> > >
> > > Sort of, not exactly. You need to take money out of that $100g
> every
> > > month to make the payments on the coach, so you're going to
slowly
> > > dwindle it down, reducing your return. Unless you make the
> payments
> > > out of your income, in which case I don't think you'll be all
that
> > > well off. Follow me here:
> > >
> > > In your example the payment would be $716.43 per month. If you
> take
> > > that same money and invest it at 10% over 20 years instead of
> paying
> > > it to the bank, compounded monthly you'd have almost $550k.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, if you leave your $100k in the bank for 20
> years
> > > and don't pay any extra into it because you're making payments
on
> > the
> > > coach, at the end of the 20 years you'd have about $730k.
> > >
> > > Now 730 - 550 = $180k. Interestingly enough, at the end of the
20
> > > years you'll have sent about $172k to the bank to pay for your
> $100k
> > > coach. Which leaves you only $8,000 ahead by financing it and
> > keeping
> > > your money in the bank.
> > >
> > > Let's look at the risk you get for your $8,000: You risk an
income
> > > crisis and not having the ability to repay your loan. If the
> market
> > > happens to be down about the same time, which is often the case
in
> > > financial hardships (Murphy's Law), you risk losing your
> portfolio
> > as
> > > you yank everything out in a down market to get the creditors
off
> > your
> > > back. You risk huge spikes in interest rates and fees should
you
> > miss
> > > a payment by accident.
> > >
> > > Is it worth it? Not to me. Assuming you have the discipline to
> > > re-invest the money you would have otherwise sent to the bank,
I'm
> > > paying cash for the coach and rebuilding my portfolio out of my
> > > income.
> > >
> > > Now, if you're actually able to itemize the interest out on your
> > > taxes, you might -- MIGHT -- be able to recover enough to make
it
> > > worth the effort. Typically, though, that isn't the case. The
> > standard
> > > deduction will typically be higher than the interest on the
coach
> so
> > > unless you have other major things to itemize, you're no money
> ahead
> > > with the tax man.
> > >
> > > In my experience, financing for the interest or tax savings is
> > usually
> > > a negative to zero sum game, or otherwise close enough as to
make
> it
> > > not worth the risk and/or the hassle.
> > >
> > > -Ryan
> > >
> >
> I guess I'm from the old school of financing and that is pay for it
> with cash!!! I really believe that is what is wrong with America
> economy today and that is everything is on time payments. What
> happen to the days that when you bought something and you paid for
it
> or you did not get it? Oh well if a person wants to pay 10 percent
> interest on anything than go for it but for me its cash only and
save
> paying the interest. Product of the depression with a depression
> attitude! Jon
>
> Jon
> Rebel Bird
On that cash items I was talking about I do use my credit card but
pay it oft at the end of the month. One big advantage to using the
credit card is that I have saved up enough points to take two round
trip flight anywhere in the USA for FREE this year. Jon
Rebel Bird
1978 Special
>
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 "Smoke N Mirrors"
Dahlonega, GA
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Want to buy Bluebird - Ryan Wright - 11-26-2007 15:08
On Nov 26, 2007 2:15 PM, Don Bradner
>
> This discussion has wandered rather far from RVing except perhaps this one.
>
> With the large capacity of my bird, I only buy at Flying J, and using their
> website I pick the best Flying J - often bypass a couple to get to the one
> with the best price. I use a Mastercard that gives cash back, AND get the
> cash discount price, AND get 1c per gallon off besides. That makes it
> definitely a better deal than cash. Even with a safe I'm not interested in
> carrying the thousand$ necessary to pay just for fuel on a long trip.
You'll get no arguments from me on carrying a credit card to pay for
large purchases instead of risking cash. I'm not so anti-credit card I
can't see the plain logic in that plan. Likewise with Dorn's 3% card -
if it gives back more than the cash discount, it might be worth it.
Though I'm really, really curious now, how do you manage to pay with a
credit card and get the cash discount plus another 1 cent per gallon?
-Ryan
Want to buy Bluebird - Leroy Eckert - 11-26-2007 15:28
I like to save money as well as anyone. If you have found a way to get $30 bucks
back without being taxable income on 150 gallons or more, please share it with
us. When I get to the point that 1c per gallon cash($1.50 on 150 gallons) is
important to me I will advertise my beautiful coach for sale on this site.
Don Bradner
This discussion has wandered rather far from RVing except perhaps this one.
With the large capacity of my bird, I only buy at Flying J, and using their
website I pick the best Flying J - often bypass a couple to get to the one with
the best price. I use a Mastercard that gives cash back, AND get the cash
discount price, AND get 1c per gallon off besides. That makes it definitely a
better deal than cash. Even with a safe I'm not interested in carrying the
thousand$ necessary to pay just for fuel on a long trip.
On 11/26/2007 at 1:10 PM Ryan Wright wrote:
> I also get a
>nice little discount when I pay cash for my coach fuel instead of
>whipping out the plastic.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 "Smoke N Mirrors"
Dahlonega, GA
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Want to buy Bluebird - Don Bradner - 11-26-2007 16:10
Flying J RV card (free). FJ rules say: FJ card allows purchase of RV fuel with a
credit card, at the truck pumps, for the cash price, and an additional 1c per
gallon off.
Details:
You cannot use a VISA card, but Mastercard is fine.
You cannot swipe a credit card at the pump, but you can swipe the FJ card to
authorize the pump. Choose "Cash" and Enter for any question like unit number
that is not applicable.
Pump, then pull forward, go inside and pay, handing over both cards and say "RV
on xx (island number) already pumped"
That will get you 6 cents for cash, 1 cent for the FJ card, and whatever you can
get in CC rebates. Mine only does 1% on diesel (5% on gas).
So, to answer Leroy, I don't get $30 on 150 gallons, only a bit over $15, and I
do it without carrying a lot of cash.
On 11/26/2007 at 7:08 PM Ryan Wright wrote:
>Though I'm really, really curious now, how do you manage to pay with a
>credit card and get the cash discount plus another 1 cent per gallon?
Want to buy Bluebird - mbulriss - 11-26-2007 16:55
> You cannot swipe a credit card at the pump, but you can swipe the
> FJ card to authorize the pump. Choose "Cash" and Enter for any
> question like unit number that is not applicable.
>
That's not my experience at all. After I swipe the FJ RV card, it
asks how you are paying. I choose credit and it then asks for the
credit card. Then I swipe the credit card. When I go in, the ticket
is already printed with all the discounts. I make up a number for the
unit number and enter my current mileage for the hub meter reading.
I use the Discover "gas" card and get up to 5% cash back. Used to
have no cap, then they caught on and it is now capped the 5% rebate at
some modest (ridiculous) amount like the first $150/month. Then you
go to the tiered rebate structure for other purchases. I hit 'em hard
before the 5% cap went on! Seems like I had something like $220 or
more in rebates the first year.
FWIW,
Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Txas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
>
> Flying J RV card (free). FJ rules say: FJ card allows purchase of RV
fuel with a credit card, at the truck pumps, for the cash price, and
an additional 1c per gallon off.
>
> Details:
>
> You cannot use a VISA card, but Mastercard is fine.
>
> You cannot swipe a credit card at the pump, but you can swipe the FJ
card to authorize the pump. Choose "Cash" and Enter for any question
like unit number that is not applicable.
>
> Pump, then pull forward, go inside and pay, handing over both cards
and say "RV on xx (island number) already pumped"
>
> That will get you 6 cents for cash, 1 cent for the FJ card, and
whatever you can get in CC rebates. Mine only does 1% on diesel (5% on
gas).
>
> So, to answer Leroy, I don't get $30 on 150 gallons, only a bit over
$15, and I do it without carrying a lot of cash.
>
> On 11/26/2007 at 7:08 PM Ryan Wright wrote:
>
> >Though I'm really, really curious now, how do you manage to pay with a
> >credit card and get the cash discount plus another 1 cent per gallon?
>
Want to buy Bluebird - Don Bradner - 11-26-2007 17:26
The cc working at the truck islands is unusual, in my experience. In most cases
I've seen, they only accept "fleet" cards, and I get a reject if I try my
Mastercard. I admit that I rarely try anymore, easy enough to pay inside. I also
buy a lot of my fuel in Arizona, and your method would probably end up paying
the truck cash rate, while my way gets another 8 cents per gallon off for being
an RV (tax difference).
I don't like capped rebates. I use a Shell card for all personal purchases,
which has no limit but has to be taken out in Gasoline. I average about $40 per
month in rebates, which unfortunately I use up with today's gas prices.
For my business I use an uncapped 1% Chase card, and average $35,000 per month
in purchases. That's a nice $4200 per year in rebates. Cash, paid at my choosing
in increments of $50 at a time.
Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA
On 11/27/2007 at 4:55 AM mbulriss wrote:
>> You cannot swipe a credit card at the pump, but you can swipe the
>> FJ card to authorize the pump. Choose "Cash" and Enter for any
>> question like unit number that is not applicable.
>>
>
>That's not my experience at all. After I swipe the FJ RV card, it
>asks how you are paying. I choose credit and it then asks for the
>credit card. Then I swipe the credit card. When I go in, the ticket
>is already printed with all the discounts. I make up a number for the
>unit number and enter my current mileage for the hub meter reading.
>
>I use the Discover "gas" card and get up to 5% cash back. Used to
>have no cap, then they caught on and it is now capped the 5% rebate at
>some modest (ridiculous) amount like the first $150/month. Then you
>go to the tiered rebate structure for other purchases. I hit 'em hard
>before the 5% cap went on! Seems like I had something like $220 or
>more in rebates the first year.
>
>FWIW,
>
>Mike Bulriss
>1991 WB40 "Txas Minivan"
>San Antonio, TX
Want to buy Bluebird - Dorn Hetzel - 11-27-2007 02:06
Don,
Check out emigrantdirect.com , they will give you an uncapped 1.4% paid
twice a year to your savings account if you keep $10,000 in savings with
them, on which they pay 4.75% which is pretty decent in it's own right...
Regards,
Dorn Hetzel
77FC35
Hogansville, GA
On Nov 27, 2007 12:26 AM, Don Bradner
> The cc working at the truck islands is unusual, in my experience. In
> most cases I've seen, they only accept "fleet" cards, and I get a reject if
> I try my Mastercard. I admit that I rarely try anymore, easy enough to pay
> inside. I also buy a lot of my fuel in Arizona, and your method would
> probably end up paying the truck cash rate, while my way gets another 8
> cents per gallon off for being an RV (tax difference).
>
> I don't like capped rebates. I use a Shell card for all personal
> purchases, which has no limit but has to be taken out in Gasoline. I average
> about $40 per month in rebates, which unfortunately I use up with today's
> gas prices.
>
> For my business I use an uncapped 1% Chase card, and average $35,000 per
> month in purchases. That's a nice $4200 per year in rebates. Cash, paid at
> my choosing in increments of $50 at a time.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Eureka, CA
>
>
> On 11/27/2007 at 4:55 AM mbulriss wrote:
>
> >> You cannot swipe a credit card at the pump, but you can swipe the
> >> FJ card to authorize the pump. Choose "Cash" and Enter for any
> >> question like unit number that is not applicable.
> >>
> >
> >That's not my experience at all. After I swipe the FJ RV card, it
> >asks how you are paying. I choose credit and it then asks for the
> >credit card. Then I swipe the credit card. When I go in, the ticket
> >is already printed with all the discounts. I make up a number for the
> >unit number and enter my current mileage for the hub meter reading.
> >
> >I use the Discover "gas" card and get up to 5% cash back. Used to
> >have no cap, then they caught on and it is now capped the 5% rebate at
> >some modest (ridiculous) amount like the first $150/month. Then you
> >go to the tiered rebate structure for other purchases. I hit 'em hard
> >before the 5% cap went on! Seems like I had something like $220 or
> >more in rebates the first year.
> >
> >FWIW,
> >
> >Mike Bulriss
> >1991 WB40 "Txas Minivan"
> >San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Want to buy Bluebird - Pete Masterson - 11-27-2007 02:21
American Express also works at the Flying J 'commercial' pumps. Last
year AmEx had a 3% rebate on purchases at "service stations" (but
some Flying Js show up as "convenience stores" so they didn't qualify
for the AmEx rebate). I also have a MasterCard (Chase Freedom Card)
that gives a 2% rebate on all fuel purchases, but it has a monthly
maximum limit.
I have a FMCA "RV Real Value Member" card -- also free -- if you're
an FMCA member. (FMCA membership has many other benefits that may be
of interest -- or not.)
The Flying J RV cards can be used to release the pump at the computer
terminal rather than walking in to the "fuel desk" inside.
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Lockhart Texas
On Nov 26, 2007, at 10:10 PM, Don Bradner wrote:
> Flying J RV card (free). FJ rules say: FJ card allows purchase of
> RV fuel with a credit card, at the truck pumps, for the cash price,
> and an additional 1c per gallon off.
>
> Details:
>
> You cannot use a VISA card, but Mastercard is fine.
>
> You cannot swipe a credit card at the pump, but you can swipe the
> FJ card to authorize the pump. Choose "Cash" and Enter for any
> question like unit number that is not applicable.
>
> Pump, then pull forward, go inside and pay, handing over both cards
> and say "RV on xx (island number) already pumped"
>
> That will get you 6 cents for cash, 1 cent for the FJ card, and
> whatever you can get in CC rebates. Mine only does 1% on diesel (5%
> on gas).
>
> So, to answer Leroy, I don't get $30 on 150 gallons, only a bit
> over $15, and I do it without carrying a lot of cash.
>
> On 11/26/2007 at 7:08 PM Ryan Wright wrote:
>
>> Though I'm really, really curious now, how do you manage to pay
>> with a
>> credit card and get the cash discount plus another 1 cent per gallon?
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Want to buy Bluebird - Don Bradner - 11-27-2007 04:26
I am an FMCA member, but I wanted to note that there is no membership
requirement (in any organization) to get an RV Real Value card. If Flying J ever
gets their FlyingJ.com website fixed (it has been having terrible problems) you
can apply for one there, or at any FJ fuel counter.
On 11/27/2007 at 8:21 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
>I have a FMCA "RV Real Value Member" card -- also free -- if you're
>an FMCA member. (FMCA membership has many other benefits that may be
>of interest -- or not.)