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Changing tranny fluid - Bob Lawrence - 04-04-2006 11:22

Hi guys,
Want to get your feeling about changing the tranny fluid.
My bird has 130k on it and I don't find any records of the previous 3
owners changing the fluid.
Since we live in our bird fulltime and maybe take a trip once every
other month for a 3 dayer, no problem.
This Fri I'm going to get the oil changed (5k on engine rebuild) and
change the tranny fluid.
We will be traveling fulltime in 18 months and want to know if we
should change to synthetics.
I have notice the tranny temp gauge going up in stop and go traffic
and I have read the synthetics cut down on the heat factor.
Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how long does it last
before needing rechanging?
Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in there now (changing
it out, of course).
What think you?

Bob Lawrence
84 pt36
Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on the road.

Changing tranny fluid - Jay Darst - 04-04-2006 13:45

Bob,

By all means, change to Synthetic.

The correct and recomended fluid is Castrol Transynd. It is actually
manufactured by BP(British Petroleum, the same BP stations you see
all over the US). You may save yourself some money as the "Castrol"
name plate is expensive. I have a 5 gallon bucket of " BP Autran Syn
295 " with a part# 709707. Paid $139.90 for it. This is the EXACT
same stuff. BP makes it and Castrol markets it under their label.
(I have a very good friend in the petro business who is also very
well connected)

Because of the trans retarder producing severe heat and the fact
that the MTB654CR is rated for only 300HP and 950 Ft.Lbs. of torque,
it is my opinion that you need to take EVERY precaution you can to
prolong the life of your transmission.

Here is an article I found...

April 3, 2001 - Oklahoma City - Since Allison Transmission
introduced it in June 1999, the synthetic automatic transmission
fluid (ATF) TranSynd has proven itself in demanding motorhome
applications.

TranSynd, a co-branded ATF exclusively formulated by Castrol for
use in heavy-duty Allison Automatic Transmissions, extends oil drain
intervals for Allison automatic transmissions by up to 300%.

A nonretarder-equipped motorhome using 100% TranSynd can enjoy
Allison's recommended general duty interval at 100,000 miles between
oil changes. Severe duty motorhome applications using 100% TranSynd
can achieve 50,000 miles between oil changes. In either
applications, operators will get the substantial benefits of fewer
oil changes compared any other fluid recommended by Allison for
general or severe duty.

"Today's transmissions operate at higher temperatures and in far
more demanding conditions than in the past," says Lynn Gibboney,
manager of Tactical Marketing for Allison Transmission. "TranSynd
offers as much as four times longer oil drain intervals compared
with other automatic transmission fluids. In addition, the product
reduces fleet costs relating to maintenance, labor, filter
replacement and oil disposal."

TransSynd extends oil change guidelines for Allison transmissions
to 100,000 miles/48 months for general duty and 50,000 miles/24
months for severe duty. This compares to recommended changes for
conventional transmission fluids of 12,000 miles/6 months for severe
duty and 25,000 miles/12 months for general duty. TranSynd, which
is designed for use in most medium- and heavy-duty automatic
transmissions, also reduces maintenance cycles, increasing vehicle
up-time and fleet revenue.

Engineered for Allison Transmission by Castrol, TranSynd
dramatically extends drain intervals and lowers maintenance costs.
While TranSynd brings value to all motorhomes, it is especially
beneficial for use in those neededing a long lasting, proven ATF
solution.

Because TranSynd functions within wider operating temperature
ranges, it is ideal for use year-round in all climates. TranSynd
also is much more resistant to thermal breakdown than other fluids.
This ensures superior protection of transmission components and
extended fluid and transmission life.

TranSynd is not subject to the degradative properties of most
conventional fluids. In fact, in fleet test studies the product has
demonstrated dramatic performance over other ATFs in severe
applications. Perhaps most impressively, this includes an extension
of oil drain intervals by 300% and a reduction of fleet maintenance
hours by 75%.

Tests have shown significant operational benefits of TranSynd over
other products. These include:

Superior wear resistance


Greatly extended drain intervals

Superior protection of transmission components

Dramatic oxidation reduction

Far less sheardown

Significantly improved viscosity stability

Improved shift quality

Extended transmission life

Considerably reduced overall transmission life cycle costs

Lower fleet operating and maintenance expenses

TranSynd is bringing a whole new level of functionality and
performance to motorhome applications, one that is enabling
motorhome automatic transmissions to operate more efficiently,
productively, and for significantly less cost.

TranSynd meets the Allison TES-295 Transmission Fluid Specification
for Severe Duty and Extended Drain Intervals. The product is also
approved to the General Motors DEXRONb IIIG Specification.

For more information, sales literature and spec sheets, contact your
Allison distributor, authorized dealer, visit us at
http://www.allisontransmission.com, or fax your request to Allison
Transmission at 1-800-252-5ATD, or write Allison Transmission, P.O.
Box 894, Speed Code PF8, Indianapolis, IN 46206-0894

Allison Transmission is the world's leading designer, manufacturer
and seller of medium- and heavy-duty automatic transmissions for
trucks, buses, off-road and military vehicles and RVs.

Welp, there you have it!
Jay Darst
85PT40 6V92 and MTB654CR
Springfield, IL

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> Want to get your feeling about changing the tranny fluid.
> My bird has 130k on it and I don't find any records of the
previous 3
> owners changing the fluid.
> Since we live in our bird fulltime and maybe take a trip once
every
> other month for a 3 dayer, no problem.
> This Fri I'm going to get the oil changed (5k on engine rebuild)
and
> change the tranny fluid.
> We will be traveling fulltime in 18 months and want to know if we
> should change to synthetics.
> I have notice the tranny temp gauge going up in stop and go
traffic
> and I have read the synthetics cut down on the heat factor.
> Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how long does it last
> before needing rechanging?
> Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in there now
(changing
> it out, of course).
> What think you?
>
> Bob Lawrence
> 84 pt36
> Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on the road.
>

Changing tranny fluid - John Suter - 04-05-2006 00:38

Hi Jay and welcome Bob,

Couple things we should mention "when" you change to
synthetics (in both your transmission and your engine,
and even if you don't). Many of the Allison
transmission models have more than one filter which
may require dropping the pan to locate.
Additionally, to achieve the full benefits from
synthetics requires purging the system of the old
non-synthetics and that may take one or more cycles of
somewhat shortened usage, in the absence of a complete
pressure purge.

Most importantly,
"More potential damage can occur from an over-filled
transmission, than an under-filled one" (cite: Allison
engineers, FMCA & Bluebird RIV seminars, numerous
years).

Upon refilling the system after drain, use the
minimum "cold" dipstick mark to achieve the initial
oil refill before starting the engine. Warm the
transmission temps to above 140 degrees in neutral at
normal idle. Cycle through Drive, Neutral, Reverse,
Neutral, Drive several times to purge trapped air
before checking "hot" dipstick mark for final "topping
off." If your transmission model is equipped with the
"electronic dipstick," you can perform these checks
from the driver's area.

Enjoy,

John Suter
2000LXi and previous PT40's


--- Jay Darst wrote:

> Bob,
>
> By all means, change to Synthetic.
>
> The correct and recomended fluid is Castrol
> Transynd. It is actually
> manufactured by BP(British Petroleum, the same BP
> stations you see
> all over the US). You may save yourself some money
> as the "Castrol"
> name plate is expensive. I have a 5 gallon bucket of
> " BP Autran Syn
> 295 " with a part# 709707. Paid $139.90 for it. This
> is the EXACT
> same stuff. BP makes it and Castrol markets it under
> their label.
> (I have a very good friend in the petro business who
> is also very
> well connected)
>
> Because of the trans retarder producing severe heat
> and the fact
> that the MTB654CR is rated for only 300HP and 950
> Ft.Lbs. of torque,
> it is my opinion that you need to take EVERY
> precaution you can to
> prolong the life of your transmission.
>
> Here is an article I found...
>
> April 3, 2001 - Oklahoma City - Since Allison
> Transmission
> introduced it in June 1999, the synthetic automatic
> transmission
> fluid (ATF) TranSynd has proven itself in demanding
> motorhome
> applications.
>
> TranSynd, a co-branded ATF exclusively formulated
> by Castrol for
> use in heavy-duty Allison Automatic Transmissions,
> extends oil drain
> intervals for Allison automatic transmissions by up
> to 300%.
>
> A nonretarder-equipped motorhome using 100%
> TranSynd can enjoy
> Allison's recommended general duty interval at
> 100,000 miles between
> oil changes. Severe duty motorhome applications
> using 100% TranSynd
> can achieve 50,000 miles between oil changes. In
> either
> applications, operators will get the substantial
> benefits of fewer
> oil changes compared any other fluid recommended by
> Allison for
> general or severe duty.
>
> "Today's transmissions operate at higher
> temperatures and in far
> more demanding conditions than in the past," says
> Lynn Gibboney,
> manager of Tactical Marketing for Allison
> Transmission. "TranSynd
> offers as much as four times longer oil drain
> intervals compared
> with other automatic transmission fluids. In
> addition, the product
> reduces fleet costs relating to maintenance, labor,
> filter
> replacement and oil disposal."
>
> TransSynd extends oil change guidelines for Allison
> transmissions
> to 100,000 miles/48 months for general duty and
> 50,000 miles/24
> months for severe duty. This compares to recommended
> changes for
> conventional transmission fluids of 12,000 miles/6
> months for severe
> duty and 25,000 miles/12 months for general duty.
> TranSynd, which
> is designed for use in most medium- and heavy-duty
> automatic
> transmissions, also reduces maintenance cycles,
> increasing vehicle
> up-time and fleet revenue.
>
> Engineered for Allison Transmission by Castrol,
> TranSynd
> dramatically extends drain intervals and lowers
> maintenance costs.
> While TranSynd brings value to all motorhomes, it
> is especially
> beneficial for use in those neededing a long
> lasting, proven ATF
> solution.
>
> Because TranSynd functions within wider operating
> temperature
> ranges, it is ideal for use year-round in all
> climates. TranSynd
> also is much more resistant to thermal breakdown
> than other fluids.
> This ensures superior protection of transmission
> components and
> extended fluid and transmission life.
>
> TranSynd is not subject to the degradative
> properties of most
> conventional fluids. In fact, in fleet test studies
> the product has
> demonstrated dramatic performance over other ATFs in
> severe
> applications. Perhaps most impressively, this
> includes an extension
> of oil drain intervals by 300% and a reduction of
> fleet maintenance
> hours by 75%.
>
> Tests have shown significant operational benefits of
> TranSynd over
> other products. These include:
>
> Superior wear resistance
>
>
> Greatly extended drain intervals
>
> Superior protection of transmission components
>
> Dramatic oxidation reduction
>
> Far less sheardown
>
> Significantly improved viscosity stability
>
> Improved shift quality
>
> Extended transmission life
>
> Considerably reduced overall transmission life
> cycle costs
>
> Lower fleet operating and maintenance expenses
>
> TranSynd is bringing a whole new level of
> functionality and
> performance to motorhome applications, one that is
> enabling
> motorhome automatic transmissions to operate more
> efficiently,
> productively, and for significantly less cost.
>
> TranSynd meets the Allison TES-295 Transmission
> Fluid Specification
> for Severe Duty and Extended Drain Intervals. The
> product is also
> approved to the General Motors DEXRONb IIIG
> Specification.
>
> For more information, sales literature and spec
> sheets, contact your
> Allison distributor, authorized dealer, visit us at
> http://www.allisontransmission.com, or fax your request to
> Allison
> Transmission at 1-800-252-5ATD, or write Allison
> Transmission, P.O.
> Box 894, Speed Code PF8, Indianapolis, IN 46206-0894
>
> Allison Transmission is the world's leading
> designer, manufacturer
> and seller of medium- and heavy-duty automatic
> transmissions for
> trucks, buses, off-road and military vehicles and
> RVs.
>
> Welp, there you have it!
> Jay Darst
> 85PT40 6V92 and MTB654CR
> Springfield, IL
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob
> Lawrence"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> > Want to get your feeling about changing the tranny
> fluid.
> > My bird has 130k on it and I don't find any
> records of the
> previous 3
> > owners changing the fluid.
> > Since we live in our bird fulltime and maybe take
> a trip once
> every
> > other month for a 3 dayer, no problem.
> > This Fri I'm going to get the oil changed (5k on
> engine rebuild)
> and
> > change the tranny fluid.
> > We will be traveling fulltime in 18 months and
> want to know if we
> > should change to synthetics.
> > I have notice the tranny temp gauge going up in
> stop and go
> traffic
> > and I have read the synthetics cut down on the
> heat factor.
> > Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how
> long does it last
> > before needing rechanging?
> > Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in
> there now
> (changing
> > it out, of course).
> > What think you?
> >
> > Bob Lawrence
> > 84 pt36
> > Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on
> the road.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Changing tranny fluid - Gregory OConnor - 04-05-2006 04:22

Bob, I just had a trans service at the Allison dealer it was less
than $180.00 for that part of the service. I opted to use the oil-
oil because it would be more affordable to drop the pan and change
every 20 thousand miles or with every other engine oil change. I
like the idea of looking at the filter and pan every 20. The second
reason I did not take the synthetic oil was I think it will take 3 or
4 changes to evacuate the trans of oil-oil ( t-converter, valve
bodies). Third reason is I tend to be cheap (actually no. 1). Reason
four is I dont have a need to push the bus past the limits of oil-oil
temp stress warnings (if stress causes heat in oil-oil and less heat
in syn-oil, how will I know to back off the stress).

Gregory O'Connor
cheap and trying to avoid stress

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> Want to get your feeling about changing the tranny fluid.
> My bird has 130k on it and I don't find any records of the previous
3
> owners changing the fluid.
> Since we live in our bird fulltime and maybe take a trip once every
> other month for a 3 dayer, no problem.
> This Fri I'm going to get the oil changed (5k on engine rebuild)
and
> change the tranny fluid.
> We will be traveling fulltime in 18 months and want to know if we
> should change to synthetics.
> I have notice the tranny temp gauge going up in stop and go traffic
> and I have read the synthetics cut down on the heat factor.
> Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how long does it last
> before needing rechanging?
> Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in there now
(changing
> it out, of course).
> What think you?
>
> Bob Lawrence
> 84 pt36
> Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on the road.
>

Changing tranny fluid - Bob Lawrence - 04-05-2006 11:51

Hi John,
When you say a shorter usage, what do you recommend when to redue.
Sounds like synthetic is the way to go for me.
Bob
84 PT36
Tacoma, Wa. (Where we finally have sun for a couple of days)

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, John Suter
wrote:
> Additionally, to achieve the full benefits from
> synthetics requires purging the system of the old
> non-synthetics and that may take one or more cycles of
> somewhat shortened usage, in the absence of a complete
> pressure purge.

Changing tranny fluid - Bob Lawrence - 04-05-2006 12:10

Thanks Greg for your info...seems like the way to go..gotta thunk
about it...thanks again.
Bob

> Bob, I just had a trans service at the Allison dealer it was less
> than $180.00 for that part of the service. I opted to use the oil-
> oil because it would be more affordable to drop the pan and change
> every 20 thousand miles or with every other engine oil change. I
> like the idea of looking at the filter and pan every 20. The
second
> reason I did not take the synthetic oil was I think it will take 3
or
> 4 changes to evacuate the trans of oil-oil ( t-converter, valve
> bodies). Third reason is I tend to be cheap (actually no. 1).
Reason
> four is I dont have a need to push the bus past the limits of oil-
oil
> temp stress warnings (if stress causes heat in oil-oil and less
heat
> in syn-oil, how will I know to back off the stress).
>
> Gregory O'Connor
> cheap and trying to avoid stress
>

Changing tranny fluid - Bob Lawrence - 04-05-2006 12:12

Thanks Jay, for the article.
Will make a decision on Fri when it gets done...thanks again.
Bob
>
> By all means, change to Synthetic.
>

> Welp, there you have it!
> Jay Darst
> 85PT40 6V92 and MTB654CR
> Springfield, IL

Changing tranny fluid - Tom Warner - 04-05-2006 12:45

Actually in my opinion changing to synthetic in a transmission or a
diesel engine that is not being used in what is called "severe
service" is penny wise and pound foolish. Its kind of like putting a
full race 427 Corvette engine in a minicooper. A bluebird has a
transmission and engine oil temperature gauge. If you are
consistently running in the safe range for both and they are not
overheating then there is absolutely no reason to use synthetic oil.
Dextron 3 will work just fine and for longer then you and I together
hope to live. Most owners are only putting a few thousand miles a
year on their coaches. Its easy and quick to drain the fluid out of
the transmission pan, change the external filter and refill with Dextron 3.

Most transmission problems are caused by not properly servicing and
using it and not due to the kind of fluid used. Watch the temperature
gauges and be nice to the transmission and it will be nice to you.

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1982 FC35 (for sale soon)
1985 PT40


At 07:51 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
>Hi John,
>When you say a shorter usage, what do you recommend when to redue.
>Sounds like synthetic is the way to go for me.
>Bob
>84 PT36
>Tacoma, Wa. (Where we finally have sun for a couple of days)
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, John Suter
>wrote:
> > Additionally, to achieve the full benefits from
> > synthetics requires purging the system of the old
> > non-synthetics and that may take one or more cycles of
> > somewhat shortened usage, in the absence of a complete
> > pressure purge.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Changing tranny fluid - John Suter - 04-05-2006 12:51

Hi Bob,

I try to avoid speculation in favor of facts
whenever possible so the best answer I can offer is
the objective: to purge the system of the residual
non-synthetics, and achieve a true 100% synthetics as
soon as possible.

When I began the switch to synthetics (engine and
transmission; coach and cars), I asked that the
systems be "pressure purged" (blown out) and during
the first year I observed the same fluid and filter
schedule as prior to switching. Others may argue that
is super-cautious. My feeble response would be, "I
can more easily afford a bit on the extra fluid and
filters rather than on any catastrophic costly
failure." My only caveat is to be your own judge, but
try to avoid the "penny wise and pound foolish"
syndrome.

Another thing I learned along the way is to watch
for misleading terms such as products and services
labeled "blended synthetics" which are not true 100%
synthetics. This term, and others like it found in
small print, are especially common in the automobile
field.

John


--- Bob Lawrence wrote:

> Hi John,
> When you say a shorter usage, what do you recommend
> when to redue.
> Sounds like synthetic is the way to go for me.
> Bob
> 84 PT36
> Tacoma, Wa. (Where we finally have sun for a couple
> of days)
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, John Suter
>
> wrote:
> > Additionally, to achieve the full benefits from
> > synthetics requires purging the system of the old
> > non-synthetics and that may take one or more
> cycles of
> > somewhat shortened usage, in the absence of a
> complete
> > pressure purge.
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Changing tranny fluid - Rob Robinson - 04-05-2006 16:12

John I am not a fan of purging a tranny. In fact my SOB tranny came with a
warning from Ford not to hook up to any system that forced the fluid out. I've
just switched the Bird over to Transynd and after the recommended mileage I'll
dump the stuff and refill with Transynd again for what Allison recognizes as
100% synthetic. Of course it won't be exactly 100% but it is close enough for
Allison so I'll except their recommended change intervals for synthetic from
then on.

Rob, Sue & Merlin
94 WLWB


Quoting John Suter :

>
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
>
>
>   I try to avoid speculation in favor of facts
>
> whenever possible so the best answer I can offer is
>
> the objective: to purge the system of the residual
>
> non-synthetics, and achieve a true 100% synthetics as
>
> soon as possible.
>
>
>
>   When I began the switch to synthetics (engine and
>
> transmission; coach and cars), I asked that the
>
> systems be "pressure purged" (blown out) and during
>
> the first year I observed the same fluid and filter
>
> schedule as prior to switching. Others may argue that
>
> is super-cautious. My feeble response would be, "I
>
> can more easily afford a bit on the extra fluid and
>
> filters rather than on any catastrophic costly
>
> failure." My only caveat is to be your own judge, but
>
> try to avoid the "penny wise and pound foolish"
>
> syndrome.
>
>
>
>   Another thing I learned along the way is to watch
>
> for misleading terms such as products and services
>
> labeled "blended synthetics" which are not true 100%
>
> synthetics. This term, and others like it found in
>
> small print, are especially common in the automobile
>
> field.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Bob Lawrence wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi John,
>
> > When you say a shorter usage, what do you recommend
>
> > when to redue.
>
> > Sounds like synthetic is the way to go for me.
>
> > Bob
>
> > 84 PT36
>
> > Tacoma, Wa. (Where we finally have sun for a couple
>
> > of days)
>
> >
>
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, John Suter
>
> >
>
> > wrote:
>
> > >   Additionally, to achieve the full benefits from
>
> > > synthetics requires purging the system of the old
>
> > > non-synthetics and that may take one or more
>
> > cycles of
>
> > > somewhat shortened usage, in the absence of a
>
> > complete
>
> > > pressure purge.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
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