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+--- Thread: Over heating -- followup and question (/showthread.php?tid=3379)
Over heating -- followup and question - krminyl@... - 09-08-2006 06:35
Pete,
From what I've heard, the chassis (coach) air is very efficient, and does in
fact put out quite a bit of cold air when it is working. Most BB owners
find using the genset and the roof (or basement) airs when their coach air quits
working, and rarely get it fixed (due to the cost of freon and cost of
converting to R134) being satisfied with the genset/110v A/C units.
If your system is R134, and seems to hold a charge, I'd without a doubt, try
to use the chassis air before having to use the genset route. Unless I can
find someone to convert my old R12 (freon) chassis air to R134 for next to
nothing, I'll continue to use the genset route in lieu of my non-working chassis
AC, but it would sure be nice to have the old chassis air working.
Can't help you with the potential leak areas...lots of hoses, connectors,
dryers, evaporators, etc., that could be a possible culprit. I wouldn't check
for leaks until I knew for sure it's leaking!! What did the radiator shop
recommend?
Kevin McKeown
Yorba Linda, CA
86 38 PT
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over heating -- followup and question - Pete Masterson - 09-08-2006 10:12
Picked up my coach from the radiator shop a couple of hours ago. When
I arrived, the shop had it idling and all warmed up. Upon looking at
the breather tube, I could see a fine mist being expelled... and
drifting under the radiator and back through thanks to the air
currents with the fan. Looks like an extension on the breather tube
would be an excellent idea to reduce the tendency to build up the oil-
dust mixture.
Question about the AC system (not the roof ACs): The radiator shop
also services AC systems and found the AC had 'zero' freon (134a).
The coach had sat for 6 months from the time it was traded in until I
bought it. While the dealer may have started it up from time to time,
I doubt that was very frequent -- and he may not have turned on the
AC. So, I presume that a seal in the system dried out and allowed the
refrigerant to escape. The shop, after loading 9 lbs of 134a, was
unable to find any leaks in the system --- but had no access to the
lines from the rear to the front of the coach as they are hidden
somewhere as they run along the coach frame rails. Are there any
likely leak spots between the front and rear of the coach? Where
would I look to trace the AC lines? Does anyone have any comments
about keeping the "automotive" AC working? (I don't expect much from
it, but a little cool air up front while on the road would be nice --
especially when the sun is beating in the window.)
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over heating -- followup and question - Leroy Eckert - 09-08-2006 11:02
Pete:
I think you said you have a Series 60. I'm not familar with the breather tube
set upon the Series 60. For info, my 8v92 has two rubber tubes ( slobber
tubes) which hang down to about 1" off the highway. They do not drop oil but
if they did it would fall on the highway. Could you run the same set up?
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Masterson
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com ; wanderlodge@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:12 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Over heating -- followup and question
Picked up my coach from the radiator shop a couple of hours ago. When
I arrived, the shop had it idling and all warmed up. Upon looking at
the breather tube, I could see a fine mist being expelled... and
drifting under the radiator and back through thanks to the air
currents with the fan. Looks like an extension on the breather tube
would be an excellent idea to reduce the tendency to build up the oil-
dust mixture.
Question about the AC system (not the roof ACs): The radiator shop
also services AC systems and found the AC had 'zero' freon (134a).
The coach had sat for 6 months from the time it was traded in until I
bought it. While the dealer may have started it up from time to time,
I doubt that was very frequent -- and he may not have turned on the
AC. So, I presume that a seal in the system dried out and allowed the
refrigerant to escape. The shop, after loading 9 lbs of 134a, was
unable to find any leaks in the system --- but had no access to the
lines from the rear to the front of the coach as they are hidden
somewhere as they run along the coach frame rails. Are there any
likely leak spots between the front and rear of the coach? Where
would I look to trace the AC lines? Does anyone have any comments
about keeping the "automotive" AC working? (I don't expect much from
it, but a little cool air up front while on the road would be nice --
especially when the sun is beating in the window.)
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over heating -- followup and question - Jerry - 09-08-2006 11:06
Pete, did they evacuate the system and make sure it would hold a vacuum for
at least 30min? If so, you most probably have a small leak which is not
uncommon. I would certainly keep it charged up and operating. When and if
it leaks down again, R134a is about $5.00 for a 12oz can at WalMart and you
can charge it back up yourself. Get yourself a good set of gauges, SnapOn
sell a good set, and check the pressures with it working correctly, you'll
then know where they should be if outside temps are close. I would
primarily just keep the suction pressure at the correct pressure. There are
some good sites on the internet that can bring you up to speed on
maintaining and repair of these systems.
Jerry
MS Gulf Coast
Looking and Listening
_____
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Masterson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:12 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com; wanderlodge@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Over heating -- followup and question
Picked up my coach from the radiator shop a couple of hours ago. When
I arrived, the shop had it idling and all warmed up. Upon looking at
the breather tube, I could see a fine mist being expelled... and
drifting under the radiator and back through thanks to the air
currents with the fan. Looks like an extension on the breather tube
would be an excellent idea to reduce the tendency to build up the oil-
dust mixture.
Question about the AC system (not the roof ACs): The radiator shop
also services AC systems and found the AC had 'zero' freon (134a).
The coach had sat for 6 months from the time it was traded in until I
bought it. While the dealer may have started it up from time to time,
I doubt that was very frequent -- and he may not have turned on the
AC. So, I presume that a seal in the system dried out and allowed the
refrigerant to escape. The shop, after loading 9 lbs of 134a, was
unable to find any leaks in the system --- but had no access to the
lines from the rear to the front of the coach as they are hidden
somewhere as they run along the coach frame rails. Are there any
likely leak spots between the front and rear of the coach? Where
would I look to trace the AC lines? Does anyone have any comments
about keeping the "automotive" AC working? (I don't expect much from
it, but a little cool air up front while on the road would be nice --
especially when the sun is beating in the window.)
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@mac.
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over heating -- followup and question - Pete Masterson - 09-08-2006 11:33
Leroy,
The breather on the Series 60 is a single tube ... it appears to be
rubber (and may be lengthened and/or easily re-routed). Things were a
bit hot so I'll take a look at the engine tomorrow after everything
has cooled down.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Sep 8, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Leroy Eckert wrote:
> Pete:
> I think you said you have a Series 60. I'm not familar with the
> breather tube set upon the Series 60. For info, my 8v92 has two
> rubber tubes ( slobber tubes) which hang down to about 1" off the
> highway. They do not drop oil but if they did it would fall on the
> highway. Could you run the same set up?
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over heating -- followup and question - Pete Masterson - 09-08-2006 12:20
Jerry,
Good info... I'm not aware exactly what the shop did to test the
system... he stated that he did not find any leaks -- and said
something about 'dye' in the system.
I can get the gauges, etc. and will learn how to keep the system
charged up. As you say, small leaks aren't uncommon.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Sep 8, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Jerry wrote:
> Pete, did they evacuate the system and make sure it would hold a
> vacuum for
> at least 30min? If so, you most probably have a small leak which
> is not
> uncommon. I would certainly keep it charged up and operating.
> When and if
> it leaks down again, R134a is about $5.00 for a 12oz can at WalMart
> and you
> can charge it back up yourself. Get yourself a good set of gauges,
> SnapOn
> sell a good set, and check the pressures with it working correctly,
> you'll
> then know where they should be if outside temps are close. I would
> primarily just keep the suction pressure at the correct pressure.
> There are
> some good sites on the internet that can bring you up to speed on
> maintaining and repair of these systems.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over heating -- followup and question - Mike Hohnstein - 09-08-2006 12:46
The dye is green, and I believe it will glow with black light. It's easy to
spot and will show a leak easily. It's normal to add freon bi-annually.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Masterson
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Over heating -- followup and question
Jerry,
Good info... I'm not aware exactly what the shop did to test the
system... he stated that he did not find any leaks -- and said
something about 'dye' in the system.
I can get the gauges, etc. and will learn how to keep the system
charged up. As you say, small leaks aren't uncommon.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Sep 8, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Jerry wrote:
> Pete, did they evacuate the system and make sure it would hold a
> vacuum for
> at least 30min? If so, you most probably have a small leak which
> is not
> uncommon. I would certainly keep it charged up and operating.
> When and if
> it leaks down again, R134a is about $5.00 for a 12oz can at WalMart
> and you
> can charge it back up yourself. Get yourself a good set of gauges,
> SnapOn
> sell a good set, and check the pressures with it working correctly,
> you'll
> then know where they should be if outside temps are close. I would
> primarily just keep the suction pressure at the correct pressure.
> There are
> some good sites on the internet that can bring you up to speed on
> maintaining and repair of these systems.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over heating -- followup and question - Tom Warner - 09-08-2006 12:56
Touchy subject Kevin..changing the R12 system to R134a. If you can
do the work yourself its cheap. I have done 2 coaches so far and
several of my cars and both BB put out really cold air (39-40 degrees).
The cheap way. If your compressor is good, remove it and dump the oil
and replace with pag oil. Change the hose fittings from R12 to
R134a. Change the drier and expansion valve and then recharge with
R134a (about 80% of the R12 weight on your tag)..
The best way: Buy a new or reman compressor for R134a ( it will have
the correct R134a fittings), put the appropriate amount of oil in the
drier and compressor, button it up and charge with 80% of the R12
weight shown in your owners manual. About $300.
Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40 (not done yet)
At 06:35 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
>Pete,
>
> From what I've heard, the chassis (coach) air is very efficient,
> and does in
>fact put out quite a bit of cold air when it is working. Most BB owners
>find using the genset and the roof (or basement) airs when their
>coach air quits
>working, and rarely get it fixed (due to the cost of freon and cost of
>converting to R134) being satisfied with the genset/110v A/C units.
>
>If your system is R134, and seems to hold a charge, I'd without a doubt, try
>to use the chassis air before having to use the genset route. Unless I can
>find someone to convert my old R12 (freon) chassis air to R134 for next to
>nothing, I'll continue to use the genset route in lieu of my
>non-working chassis
> AC, but it would sure be nice to have the old chassis air working.
>
>Can't help you with the potential leak areas...lots of hoses, connectors,
>dryers, evaporators, etc., that could be a possible culprit. I
>wouldn't check
>for leaks until I knew for sure it's leaking!! What did the radiator shop
>recommend?
>
>Kevin McKeown
>Yorba Linda, CA
>86 38 PT
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Over heating -- followup and question - Leroy Eckert - 09-10-2006 08:56
Pete:
Did the service shop paint your new radiator? Is it copper or aluminum? I have
often wondered if painting the exterior fins reduces cooling capacity.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Masterson
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Over heating -- followup and question
Leroy,
The breather on the Series 60 is a single tube ... it appears to be
rubber (and may be lengthened and/or easily re-routed). Things were a
bit hot so I'll take a look at the engine tomorrow after everything
has cooled down.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Sep 8, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Leroy Eckert wrote:
> Pete:
> I think you said you have a Series 60. I'm not familar with the
> breather tube set upon the Series 60. For info, my 8v92 has two
> rubber tubes ( slobber tubes) which hang down to about 1" off the
> highway. They do not drop oil but if they did it would fall on the
> highway. Could you run the same set up?
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over heating -- followup and question - Pete Masterson - 09-10-2006 09:07
The radiator was painted. And I noticed that they paint all the
radiators in their shop that they're servicing ... there was a rack
with a bunch of radiators that were just painted... I saw that they
have a fan blowing air through the newly painted radiators ...
probably to keep the paint from clogging the air passages.
I guess you'd have to ask an engineer about the value of painting a
radiator. However, the trade off of heat retention vs. protection
from external corrosion might favor the paint.
I forgot to ask what material the new core was made of... I'll call
'em Monday and ask. (But I think it is aluminum.)
The new core has a very different design than the old core. The old
core had flattened tubes for the passage of water. The tubes were
lined up (like soldiers in formation). The new core has many more
round tubes that are set on a diagonal from one another. The
alignment is every other row. The radiator shop I used does radiator
rebuilds for one of the smaller local transit districts and they use
the same radiator design in the transit busses (that travel all over
the region in relatively hot weather and many hills.)
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Sep 10, 2006, at 1:56 PM, Leroy Eckert wrote:
> Pete:
>
> Did the service shop paint your new radiator? Is it copper or
> aluminum? I have often wondered if painting the exterior fins
> reduces cooling capacity.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]