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+-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61)
+--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63)
+--- Thread: 87-89FC Throttle Cable (/showthread.php?tid=3608)
87-89FC Throttle Cable - Rick B - 10-09-2006 08:22
After a recent experience, I would be a little reluctant
to tell someone that all BB parts are available or can be fabricated.
In a recent attempt to buy a throttle cable for our 87FC35, there were
none to be found, nor could we find someone to manufacture one, even
though we had the spec sheet on the cable. I even asked about
replacing everything including the accelerator pedal all the way to
the fuel pump, but apparently there is no such system available?
I post this as both a caution to others, as well as a request for
information. If someone has replaced such a cable on an 87-89FC, I
would be happy to hear where you bought and/or had the parts made.
The tricky part is apparently the one end of the cable where it has to
connect to an air cylinder.
- Rick
87FC35
Rochester, MN
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Do not be fearful, You made a good decision.
> All parts are available, or a substitute is available.
> A good truck parts place has it all or NAPA, and numerous
> internet businesses sell parts. Most parts are common to a truck
> or bus, The Interior RV stuff is easy to find.
> These BB Forums are great for information and support.
> So just start asking questions.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "eddiemoranii"
>
> >
> > We are buying Mr. Lawrence's 1984 PT-40!
> >
> > We live in central Florida and look forward to many many years of
> > enjoyment.
> >
> > So Bluebird (the company) does not support Vintage Birds? What
> will
> > that mean for us? I would assume that many many parts are still
> > available. I would also assume that parts that are not available
> can
> > be fabricated?
> >
> > What if we get hit by a truck and we damage the skin? Can we get
> new
> > skin?
> >
> > Thanks for your answers in advance and we look forward to picking
> > up "Southern Comfort" at the Lawrence's in a few weeks.
> >
> > Eddie
> >
>
87-89FC Throttle Cable - Mike Hohnstein - 10-09-2006 09:17
Find a Morse distributor in your town, they should be able to make one using the
original as a template. Twin Cities will have a Morse distributor for sure,
there is one in Waukesha. They can be cumbersome to deal with, but they are the
cable people.
The best way to deal with maintenance is to remove the component to be serviced
or replaced and match it up at the parts counter, cuts down on mistakes and
wasted effort. Engine belts are good example of matching the old to the "new".
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick B
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] 87-89FC Throttle Cable
After a recent experience, I would be a little reluctant
to tell someone that all BB parts are available or can be fabricated.
In a recent attempt to buy a throttle cable for our 87FC35, there were
none to be found, nor could we find someone to manufacture one, even
though we had the spec sheet on the cable. I even asked about
replacing everything including the accelerator pedal all the way to
the fuel pump, but apparently there is no such system available?
I post this as both a caution to others, as well as a request for
information. If someone has replaced such a cable on an 87-89FC, I
would be happy to hear where you bought and/or had the parts made.
The tricky part is apparently the one end of the cable where it has to
connect to an air cylinder.
- Rick
87FC35
Rochester, MN
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Do not be fearful, You made a good decision.
> All parts are available, or a substitute is available.
> A good truck parts place has it all or NAPA, and numerous
> internet businesses sell parts. Most parts are common to a truck
> or bus, The Interior RV stuff is easy to find.
> These BB Forums are great for information and support.
> So just start asking questions.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "eddiemoranii"
>
> >
> > We are buying Mr. Lawrence's 1984 PT-40!
> >
> > We live in central Florida and look forward to many many years of
> > enjoyment.
> >
> > So Bluebird (the company) does not support Vintage Birds? What
> will
> > that mean for us? I would assume that many many parts are still
> > available. I would also assume that parts that are not available
> can
> > be fabricated?
> >
> > What if we get hit by a truck and we damage the skin? Can we get
> new
> > skin?
> >
> > Thanks for your answers in advance and we look forward to picking
> > up "Southern Comfort" at the Lawrence's in a few weeks.
> >
> > Eddie
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
87-89FC Throttle Cable - Rick B - 10-09-2006 10:23
Hi Mike - thanks for the comment.
Unfortunately, Teleflex-Morse was not much help. The parts guy at the
local mechanic where I have had my Bluebird sitting for the last 3
weeks waiting for this part, spent a few days on the phone trying to
track one of these down, or find a place to make one. Nobody could do
it. I evan called Earl Davis at BB to see if he could call Teleflex
Morse and get more of a response out of them. I never heard back from
Earl, so I am guessing probably not.
Eventually we got a diagram of the cable from Bendix, but no one could
make it, not even the place Holland Motor Homes contracted to make
similar cables a few years ago. There is apparently something
different about the end of this cable that has everyone baffled.
Granted, he didn't walk or ship the cable around to people, but he
couldn't even get someone who thought they could make one to even
bother trying that.
Right now the mechanic is working on trying to fix/modify my cable to
make it work. Hopefully the fix will work, and will last a long, long
time, but I'd like to come up with a "Plan B" in case it doesn't.
I'll post more info on this when I get the BB back.
P.S. - This all started when Dave Thompson and I swapped coaches on a
drive home after the Albert Lea rally. It was clear he was getting
full throttle in his bird and I was not. I had my throttle cable
'fixed' a year or so ago when it broke, but the fix was not working
quite right, so we started the search for a new cable. Apparently the
way the cable was originally installed, it rubbed on something which
caused the initial failure.
*** A warning to those with an 87-89 FC to check your cables for wear ***
- Rick
87FC35
Rochester, MN
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> Find a Morse distributor in your town, they should be able to make
one using the original as a template. Twin Cities will have a Morse
distributor for sure, there is one in Waukesha. They can be
cumbersome to deal with, but they are the cable people.
> The best way to deal with maintenance is to remove the component to
be serviced or replaced and match it up at the parts counter, cuts
down on mistakes and wasted effort. Engine belts are good example of
matching the old to the "new".
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick B
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:22 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] 87-89FC Throttle Cable
>
>
> After a recent experience, I would be a little reluctant
> to tell someone that all BB parts are available or can be fabricated.
>
> In a recent attempt to buy a throttle cable for our 87FC35, there were
> none to be found, nor could we find someone to manufacture one, even
> though we had the spec sheet on the cable. I even asked about
> replacing everything including the accelerator pedal all the way to
> the fuel pump, but apparently there is no such system available?
>
> I post this as both a caution to others, as well as a request for
> information. If someone has replaced such a cable on an 87-89FC, I
> would be happy to hear where you bought and/or had the parts made.
> The tricky part is apparently the one end of the cable where it has to
> connect to an air cylinder.
>
> - Rick
> 87FC35
> Rochester, MN
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Eddie,
> >
> > Do not be fearful, You made a good decision.
> > All parts are available, or a substitute is available.
> > A good truck parts place has it all or NAPA, and numerous
> > internet businesses sell parts. Most parts are common to a truck
> > or bus, The Interior RV stuff is easy to find.
> > These BB Forums are great for information and support.
> > So just start asking questions.
> >
> > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "eddiemoranii"
> >
> > >
> > > We are buying Mr. Lawrence's 1984 PT-40!
> > >
> > > We live in central Florida and look forward to many many years of
> > > enjoyment.
> > >
> > > So Bluebird (the company) does not support Vintage Birds? What
> > will
> > > that mean for us? I would assume that many many parts are still
> > > available. I would also assume that parts that are not available
> > can
> > > be fabricated?
> > >
> > > What if we get hit by a truck and we damage the skin? Can we get
> > new
> > > skin?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your answers in advance and we look forward to picking
> > > up "Southern Comfort" at the Lawrence's in a few weeks.
> > >
> > > Eddie
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
87-89FC Throttle Cable - Ralph L. Fullenwider - 10-09-2006 10:46
Rick:
I had 2 cables made for my '85 FC. I went through my local Napa store ( who
also does machine work for all the local car clubs) and he had a place in
OKC to make cables. Not sure if it is the same type of cable you need.
Ralph
At 08:22 PM 10/9/2006 +0000, you wrote:
>After a recent experience, I would be a little reluctant
>to tell someone that all BB parts are available or can be fabricated.
>
>In a recent attempt to buy a throttle cable for our 87FC35, there were
>none to be found, nor could we find someone to manufacture one, even
>though we had the spec sheet on the cable. I even asked about
>replacing everything including the accelerator pedal all the way to
>the fuel pump, but apparently there is no such system available?
>
>I post this as both a caution to others, as well as a request for
>information. If someone has replaced such a cable on an 87-89FC, I
>would be happy to hear where you bought and/or had the parts made.
>The tricky part is apparently the one end of the cable where it has to
>connect to an air cylinder.
>
>- Rick
>87FC35
>Rochester, MN
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
>wrote:
> >
> >
> > Eddie,
> >
> > Do not be fearful, You made a good decision.
> > All parts are available, or a substitute is available.
> > A good truck parts place has it all or NAPA, and numerous
> > internet businesses sell parts. Most parts are common to a truck
> > or bus, The Interior RV stuff is easy to find.
> > These BB Forums are great for information and support.
> > So just start asking questions.
> >
> > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "eddiemoranii"
> >
> > >
> > > We are buying Mr. Lawrence's 1984 PT-40!
> > >
> > > We live in central Florida and look forward to many many years of
> > > enjoyment.
> > >
> > > So Bluebird (the company) does not support Vintage Birds? What
> > will
> > > that mean for us? I would assume that many many parts are still
> > > available. I would also assume that parts that are not available
> > can
> > > be fabricated?
> > >
> > > What if we get hit by a truck and we damage the skin? Can we get
> > new
> > > skin?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your answers in advance and we look forward to picking
> > > up "Southern Comfort" at the Lawrence's in a few weeks.
> > >
> > > Eddie
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Safe travels,
Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
87-89FC Throttle Cable - one_dusty_hoot - 10-09-2006 11:09
Hey Rick,
Hate that your having a tough time getting the throttle cable
replaced, maybe the mechanic can fabricate something good that will
never give you any more problems.
Now, if you please, what do you see caused the cable failure?
Where is it? What do you think needs to be done to prevent this?
Anything you can pass along would be helpful and much appreciated.
Bob Janes, 87FC35 Greenville, SC
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Rick B"
>
> Hi Mike - thanks for the comment.
>
> Unfortunately, Teleflex-Morse was not much help. The parts guy at
the
> local mechanic where I have had my Bluebird sitting for the last 3
> weeks waiting for this part, spent a few days on the phone trying to
> track one of these down, or find a place to make one. Nobody could
do
> it. I evan called Earl Davis at BB to see if he could call Teleflex
> Morse and get more of a response out of them. I never heard back
from
> Earl, so I am guessing probably not.
>
> Eventually we got a diagram of the cable from Bendix, but no one
could
> make it, not even the place Holland Motor Homes contracted to make
> similar cables a few years ago. There is apparently something
> different about the end of this cable that has everyone baffled.
> Granted, he didn't walk or ship the cable around to people, but he
> couldn't even get someone who thought they could make one to even
> bother trying that.
>
> Right now the mechanic is working on trying to fix/modify my cable
to
> make it work. Hopefully the fix will work, and will last a long,
long
> time, but I'd like to come up with a "Plan B" in case it doesn't.
> I'll post more info on this when I get the BB back.
>
> P.S. - This all started when Dave Thompson and I swapped coaches on
a
> drive home after the Albert Lea rally. It was clear he was getting
> full throttle in his bird and I was not. I had my throttle cable
> 'fixed' a year or so ago when it broke, but the fix was not working
> quite right, so we started the search for a new cable. Apparently
the
> way the cable was originally installed, it rubbed on something which
> caused the initial failure.
> *** A warning to those with an 87-89 FC to check your cables for
wear ***
>
> - Rick
> 87FC35
> Rochester, MN
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> >
> > Find a Morse distributor in your town, they should be able to make
> one using the original as a template. Twin Cities will have a Morse
> distributor for sure, there is one in Waukesha. They can be
> cumbersome to deal with, but they are the cable people.
> > The best way to deal with maintenance is to remove the component
to
> be serviced or replaced and match it up at the parts counter, cuts
> down on mistakes and wasted effort. Engine belts are good example
of
> matching the old to the "new".
> > MH
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rick B
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:22 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] 87-89FC Throttle Cable
> >
> >
> > After a recent experience, I would be a little reluctant
> > to tell someone that all BB parts are available or can be
fabricated.
> >
> > In a recent attempt to buy a throttle cable for our 87FC35,
there were
> > none to be found, nor could we find someone to manufacture one,
even
> > though we had the spec sheet on the cable. I even asked about
> > replacing everything including the accelerator pedal all the
way to
> > the fuel pump, but apparently there is no such system available?
> >
> > I post this as both a caution to others, as well as a request
for
> > information. If someone has replaced such a cable on an 87-
89FC, I
> > would be happy to hear where you bought and/or had the parts
made.
> > The tricky part is apparently the one end of the cable where it
has to
> > connect to an air cylinder.
> >
> > - Rick
> > 87FC35
> > Rochester, MN
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Eddie,
> > >
> > > Do not be fearful, You made a good decision.
> > > All parts are available, or a substitute is available.
> > > A good truck parts place has it all or NAPA, and numerous
> > > internet businesses sell parts. Most parts are common to a
truck
> > > or bus, The Interior RV stuff is easy to find.
> > > These BB Forums are great for information and support.
> > > So just start asking questions.
> > >
> > > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "eddiemoranii"
> > >
> > > >
> > > > We are buying Mr. Lawrence's 1984 PT-40!
> > > >
> > > > We live in central Florida and look forward to many many
years of
> > > > enjoyment.
> > > >
> > > > So Bluebird (the company) does not support Vintage Birds?
What
> > > will
> > > > that mean for us? I would assume that many many parts are
still
> > > > available. I would also assume that parts that are not
available
> > > can
> > > > be fabricated?
> > > >
> > > > What if we get hit by a truck and we damage the skin? Can
we get
> > > new
> > > > skin?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your answers in advance and we look forward to
picking
> > > > up "Southern Comfort" at the Lawrence's in a few weeks.
> > > >
> > > > Eddie
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
87-89FC Throttle Cable - w3ww - 10-09-2006 12:14
Rick,
Good Luck!
I'll also agree with Bob..............Anything you can pass along would be
extremely appreciated.
Don Mohney
87FC35
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
87-89FC Throttle Cable - Mike Hohnstein - 10-09-2006 12:51
Send me the print or a pic of the cable in your vehicle, off forum, Rick.
mhohnstein@...
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick B
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] 87-89FC Throttle Cable
After a recent experience, I would be a little reluctant
to tell someone that all BB parts are available or can be fabricated.
In a recent attempt to buy a throttle cable for our 87FC35, there were
none to be found, nor could we find someone to manufacture one, even
though we had the spec sheet on the cable. I even asked about
replacing everything including the accelerator pedal all the way to
the fuel pump, but apparently there is no such system available?
I post this as both a caution to others, as well as a request for
information. If someone has replaced such a cable on an 87-89FC, I
would be happy to hear where you bought and/or had the parts made.
The tricky part is apparently the one end of the cable where it has to
connect to an air cylinder.
- Rick
87FC35
Rochester, MN
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Do not be fearful, You made a good decision.
> All parts are available, or a substitute is available.
> A good truck parts place has it all or NAPA, and numerous
> internet businesses sell parts. Most parts are common to a truck
> or bus, The Interior RV stuff is easy to find.
> These BB Forums are great for information and support.
> So just start asking questions.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "eddiemoranii"
>
> >
> > We are buying Mr. Lawrence's 1984 PT-40!
> >
> > We live in central Florida and look forward to many many years of
> > enjoyment.
> >
> > So Bluebird (the company) does not support Vintage Birds? What
> will
> > that mean for us? I would assume that many many parts are still
> > available. I would also assume that parts that are not available
> can
> > be fabricated?
> >
> > What if we get hit by a truck and we damage the skin? Can we get
> new
> > skin?
> >
> > Thanks for your answers in advance and we look forward to picking
> > up "Southern Comfort" at the Lawrence's in a few weeks.
> >
> > Eddie
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
87-89FC Throttle Cable - Gary Miller - 10-09-2006 13:05
Rick,
Have you tried Holland Motor Homes, in Holland. The previous parts
manager had made up several of the cables you seek when Wanderlodge
stopped refreshing it's supply of them several years ago. Not sure
who the current parts manager is, but perhaps he'll know where to
find any leftovers in their supply.
Gary Miller
83 FC 33
Milwaukee area
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Rick B"
>
> After a recent experience, I would be a little reluctant
> to tell someone that all BB parts are available or can be
fabricated.
>
> In a recent attempt to buy a throttle cable for our 87FC35, there
were
> none to be found, nor could we find someone to manufacture one,
even
> though we had the spec sheet on the cable. I even asked about
> replacing everything including the accelerator pedal all the way to
> the fuel pump, but apparently there is no such system available?
>
> I post this as both a caution to others, as well as a request for
> information. If someone has replaced such a cable on an 87-89FC,
I
> would be happy to hear where you bought and/or had the parts made.
> The tricky part is apparently the one end of the cable where it
has to
> connect to an air cylinder.
>
> - Rick
> 87FC35
> Rochester, MN
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Eddie,
> >
> > Do not be fearful, You made a good decision.
> > All parts are available, or a substitute is available.
> > A good truck parts place has it all or NAPA, and numerous
> > internet businesses sell parts. Most parts are common to a
truck
> > or bus, The Interior RV stuff is easy to find.
> > These BB Forums are great for information and support.
> > So just start asking questions.
> >
> > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "eddiemoranii"
> >
> > >
> > > We are buying Mr. Lawrence's 1984 PT-40!
> > >
> > > We live in central Florida and look forward to many many years
of
> > > enjoyment.
> > >
> > > So Bluebird (the company) does not support Vintage Birds?
What
> > will
> > > that mean for us? I would assume that many many parts are
still
> > > available. I would also assume that parts that are not
available
> > can
> > > be fabricated?
> > >
> > > What if we get hit by a truck and we damage the skin? Can we
get
> > new
> > > skin?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your answers in advance and we look forward to
picking
> > > up "Southern Comfort" at the Lawrence's in a few weeks.
> > >
> > > Eddie
> > >
> >
>
87-89FC Throttle Cable - Rick B - 10-11-2006 08:01
Hi Gary,
We spent several days going back and forth with Scott at Holland Motor
Homes in Holland on whether or not he had the cables. I thought I
remembered a thread awhile back about Ken (previous parts guy) making
up this particular cable, so it is the first place I started. I even
went as far as asking your brother Jeff to stop in over there and find
the cable (and he was nice enough to take the time to do that - thanks
again Jeff!). Eventually Scott e-mailed a picture of the cable he has
to the parts guy at the local shop here, and it was confirmed to be
the wrong cable. I uploaded a diagram of the cable into the Files
sectrion for future reference. Stephen Birtles or Mike Honhstein may
have a lead on places that are capable of making such cables, so that
is the next step. I was able to get my old cable working for now, but
I still want to find this cable to have a backup.
Rick
87FC35
Rochester, MN
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
>
> Rick,
>
> Have you tried Holland Motor Homes, in Holland. The previous parts
> manager had made up several of the cables you seek when Wanderlodge
> stopped refreshing it's supply of them several years ago. Not sure
> who the current parts manager is, but perhaps he'll know where to
> find any leftovers in their supply.
>
> Gary Miller
> 83 FC 33
> Milwaukee area
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Rick B"
> >
> > After a recent experience, I would be a little reluctant
> > to tell someone that all BB parts are available or can be
> fabricated.
> >
> > In a recent attempt to buy a throttle cable for our 87FC35, there
> were
> > none to be found, nor could we find someone to manufacture one,
> even
> > though we had the spec sheet on the cable. I even asked about
> > replacing everything including the accelerator pedal all the way to
> > the fuel pump, but apparently there is no such system available?
> >
> > I post this as both a caution to others, as well as a request for
> > information. If someone has replaced such a cable on an 87-89FC,
> I
> > would be happy to hear where you bought and/or had the parts made.
> > The tricky part is apparently the one end of the cable where it
> has to
> > connect to an air cylinder.
> >
> > - Rick
> > 87FC35
> > Rochester, MN
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Eddie,
> > >
> > > Do not be fearful, You made a good decision.
> > > All parts are available, or a substitute is available.
> > > A good truck parts place has it all or NAPA, and numerous
> > > internet businesses sell parts. Most parts are common to a
> truck
> > > or bus, The Interior RV stuff is easy to find.
> > > These BB Forums are great for information and support.
> > > So just start asking questions.
> > >
> > > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "eddiemoranii"
> > >
> > > >
> > > > We are buying Mr. Lawrence's 1984 PT-40!
> > > >
> > > > We live in central Florida and look forward to many many years
> of
> > > > enjoyment.
> > > >
> > > > So Bluebird (the company) does not support Vintage Birds?
> What
> > > will
> > > > that mean for us? I would assume that many many parts are
> still
> > > > available. I would also assume that parts that are not
> available
> > > can
> > > > be fabricated?
> > > >
> > > > What if we get hit by a truck and we damage the skin? Can we
> get
> > > new
> > > > skin?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your answers in advance and we look forward to
> picking
> > > > up "Southern Comfort" at the Lawrence's in a few weeks.
> > > >
> > > > Eddie
> > > >
> > >
> >
>