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+--- Thread: Special request for a Bird wannabe (/showthread.php?tid=3990)
Special request for a Bird wannabe - birdshill123 - 12-11-2006 14:48
Don Bradner has been posting in this forum. He is looking for a Bird. I
dont know if anyone else is familiar with Don but he owns the Datastorm
users forum and has written a lot of specialized software for RV
satellite internet owners. Don posts on a lot of RV forums about
satellite internet and is extermely knowledgeable. He has helped
thousands of RV owners. I am posting all of the above as I would love
to see him get some help from PT40 owners in this forum. Don would be a
natural BB owner. Perhaps one of us knows of a good PT 40 that is for
sale.
Bruce 1988 FC35
Special request for a Bird wannabe - Jay Darst - 12-11-2006 15:26
Bruce,
I have been contacted by several owners interested in moving PT40's.
What years would he consider?
Jay Darst
85PT40
Springfield, IL
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
>
> Don Bradner has been posting in this forum. He is looking for a Bird.
I
> dont know if anyone else is familiar with Don but he owns the
Datastorm
> users forum and has written a lot of specialized software for RV
> satellite internet owners. Don posts on a lot of RV forums about
> satellite internet and is extermely knowledgeable. He has helped
> thousands of RV owners. I am posting all of the above as I would love
> to see him get some help from PT40 owners in this forum. Don would be
a
> natural BB owner. Perhaps one of us knows of a good PT 40 that is for
> sale.
>
> Bruce 1988 FC35
>
Special request for a Bird wannabe - David Brady - 12-11-2006 15:32
Hi Don,
Welcome to the list and best of luck finding a suitable bird.
David Brady
Datastormusers Member No.: 1836
'02 LXi, Smokey
Va
birdshill123 wrote:
> Don Bradner has been posting in this forum. He is looking for a Bird. I
> dont know if anyone else is familiar with Don but he owns the Datastorm
> users forum and has written a lot of specialized software for RV
> satellite internet owners. Don posts on a lot of RV forums about
> satellite internet and is extermely knowledgeable. He has helped
> thousands of RV owners. I am posting all of the above as I would love
> to see him get some help from PT40 owners in this forum. Don would be a
> natural BB owner. Perhaps one of us knows of a good PT 40 that is for
> sale.
>
> Bruce 1988 FC35
>
>
>
>
>
>
Special request for a Bird wannabe - Don Bradner - 12-11-2006 15:49
Guess I'll speak for myself on this one - thanks to Bruce for the intro.
I'm concentrating on the 90-94 years. I've been watching the market carefully
since around August 1, and I have a personal database built up from the various
sites showing 30 PT40s between 1988 and 1996. Since that point on a US swing we
visited Holland in Michigan, Snyder's in Virginia, Bleakley in Georgia, and
Motor Home Specialists in Texas, where we got to see a goodly number of Birds in
person.
Preference would be for mid-entry which would mean 1994 or later, unless they
did some custom prior to that. Since August 1, I'm only aware of one mid-entry
PT40 for sale, in Missouri. Listed at least since early July. On Friday, when I
became financially able to negotiate in earnest (a few months earlier than
expected, some things fell into place) I called the guy, and he sold it
Thursday.
The wife says "NO LAMINATE INTERIORS, WOOD ONLY" and that cuts the list exactly
in half. Budget removes 5 from my list - price too high to consider making an
insulting offer. $184K for a '94? $150K for a '90? I don't think so.
We are in California, so I give some preference to Birds in the west. There is a
'90 at Desert West in Phoenix that interests us, but I need some eyes-on with
it. I'm leaning towards using a professional inspection service, but I would
also love to get a PT40-savvy person to look at it. If there's someone who
combines both, I'd like to talk to them.
On 12/12/2006 at 3:26 AM Jay Darst wrote:
>Bruce,
>
>I have been contacted by several owners interested in moving PT40's.
>
>What years would he consider?
>
>Jay Darst
>85PT40
>Springfield, IL
>
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
>
>>
>> Don Bradner has been posting in this forum. He is looking for a Bird.
>I
>> dont know if anyone else is familiar with Don but he owns the
>Datastorm
>> users forum and has written a lot of specialized software for RV
>> satellite internet owners. Don posts on a lot of RV forums about
>> satellite internet and is extermely knowledgeable. He has helped
>> thousands of RV owners. I am posting all of the above as I would love
>> to see him get some help from PT40 owners in this forum. Don would be
>a
>> natural BB owner. Perhaps one of us knows of a good PT 40 that is for
>> sale.
>>
>> Bruce 1988 FC35
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Don Bradner
http://www.arcatapet.net
Special request for a Bird wannabe - Tom Warner - 12-11-2006 16:22
A recommendation for you . NOTHING is impossible when it comes to
buying any motorhome. A 1997 Bluebird LXI just sold for less then
$170,000 and a 1991 Prevost Liberty is for sale right now for less
then $170,000 at Paul Davis in Dallas Texas. With the market like
it is right now and if you are a knowledgable buyer anything is
possible. People pass away and coaches need to be sold to settle an
estate. Or people just get sick of advertising the coaches and want
to sell now. How about on vintage birds a 1993 for $123,000 with
53.000 miles on it? Bird connection has a ton of them . Remember
price is not everything. You might save a little on a coach and then
spends lots getting it up to snuff.
tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40
At 10:49 PM 12/11/2006, you wrote:
>Guess I'll speak for myself on this one - thanks to Bruce for the intro.
>
>I'm concentrating on the 90-94 years. I've been watching the market
>carefully since around August 1, and I have a personal database
>built up from the various sites showing 30 PT40s between 1988 and
>1996. Since that point on a US swing we visited Holland in Michigan,
>Snyder's in Virginia, Bleakley in Georgia, and Motor Home
>Specialists in Texas, where we got to see a goodly number of Birds in person.
>
>Preference would be for mid-entry which would mean 1994 or later,
>unless they did some custom prior to that. Since August 1, I'm only
>aware of one mid-entry PT40 for sale, in Missouri. Listed at least
>since early July. On Friday, when I became financially able to
>negotiate in earnest (a few months earlier than expected, some
>things fell into place) I called the guy, and he sold it Thursday.
>
>The wife says "NO LAMINATE INTERIORS, WOOD ONLY" and that cuts the
>list exactly in half. Budget removes 5 from my list - price too high
>to consider making an insulting offer. $184K for a '94? $150K for a
>'90? I don't think so.
>
>We are in California, so I give some preference to Birds in the
>west. There is a '90 at Desert West in Phoenix that interests us,
>but I need some eyes-on with it. I'm leaning towards using a
>professional inspection service, but I would also love to get a
>PT40-savvy person to look at it. If there's someone who combines
>both, I'd like to talk to them.
>
>On 12/12/2006 at 3:26 AM Jay Darst wrote:
>
> >Bruce,
> >
> >I have been contacted by several owners interested in moving PT40's.
> >
> >What years would he consider?
> >
> >Jay Darst
> >85PT40
> >Springfield, IL
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
> >
> >>
> >> Don Bradner has been posting in this forum. He is looking for a Bird.
> >I
> >> dont know if anyone else is familiar with Don but he owns the
> >Datastorm
> >> users forum and has written a lot of specialized software for RV
> >> satellite internet owners. Don posts on a lot of RV forums about
> >> satellite internet and is extermely knowledgeable. He has helped
> >> thousands of RV owners. I am posting all of the above as I would love
> >> to see him get some help from PT40 owners in this forum. Don would be
> >a
> >> natural BB owner. Perhaps one of us knows of a good PT 40 that is for
> >> sale.
> >>
> >> Bruce 1988 FC35
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>Don Bradner
>http://www.arcatapet.net
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Special request for a Bird wannabe - Don Bradner - 12-11-2006 17:17
I had an e-mail asking if the Phoenix Bird I was interested in was a different
one, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to specify which one it is. It can be seen
here:
http://www.bus-link.net/1990/1990Blue40Wander/1990Blue40Wander.htm
I should have included that in the first place, and asked if anyone is familiar
with it. Could be owned by a member here, for all that I know; it is a
consignment sale.
Don Bradner
http://www.arcatapet.net
Special request for a Bird wannabe - erniecarpet@... - 12-11-2006 19:56
Don- Ralph Fullenwider and Jeff Miller offer the inspection service you
desire.
Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, tx
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Special request for a Bird wannabe - Don Bradner - 12-12-2006 04:36
On 12/11/2006 at 11:22 PM Tom Warner wrote:
>A recommendation for you . NOTHING is impossible when it comes to
>buying any motorhome. A 1997 Bluebird LXI just sold for less then
>$170,000 and a 1991 Prevost Liberty is for sale right now for less
>then $170,000 at Paul Davis in Dallas Texas. With the market like
>it is right now and if you are a knowledgable buyer anything is
>possible. People pass away and coaches need to be sold to settle an
>estate. Or people just get sick of advertising the coaches and want
>to sell now. How about on vintage birds a 1993 for $123,000 with
>53.000 miles on it? Bird connection has a ton of them . Remember
>price is not everything. You might save a little on a coach and then
>spends lots getting it up to snuff.
I guess I don't understand the recommendation you are trying to convey? You
mention coaches selling at or below market value, of which there are legions
available, then conclude with two sentences that imply that is not a good thing
from a buyer's perspective? I mentioned a couple I tossed from my personal
choice list for price, a 94 for $184K, and a 90 for $150K. Nothing about that
was intended to imply anything about the quality of either, just how
out-of-market they were.
I'm doing what I can to be an informed buyer in all respects; knowing what the
ballpark price is, is part of that
Here's what I'm aware of now in 90-94 PT40s for sale, asking price and mileage
(I have a lot more data on each, but this is just for a general market
overview):
1990
$79,500 90000
$90,000 173000
$96,500 123500
$105,000 112000
$140,000 25000 (note: this is the one I had above at $150K, the BBC price, but
I saw it last night on rvtraderonline for $140K)
1991
$93,000 181000
$95,000 104000
$99,999 58000
$119,000 98000
$129,000 40000
$140,000 87000
1992
$123,600 102000
$128,000 118000
1993
$105,000 125000
$110,000 113000
$110,000 145000
$119,500 79000 (another one where the BBC price is higher, $123,500 and
$129,500 in the same listing)
$123,000 59500
$135,000 77000
$135,000 103000
1994
$119,000 119000
$126,000 93000
$129,000 143000 (this is the mid-entry. Sold for $125K last week)
$139,000 120000
$150,000 39000
$155,900 145000
$185,500 86000
I did not include some at dealerships that choose not to list prices - don't
like that particular game.
Negotiation of prices is tough for someone like me. I hate dickering. I look at
that last one at $185500, and I say "it looks to me like $135K is about right,
but if I offer 135K they will come back with $160K and then what do I do. If I
offer $85K to try to work to the middle/market price, how could they consider me
a serious buyer?"
Price is not the only consideration by any means - if it were I would be
pursuing the lowest, but there are other things that rate a number of the
lower-priced ones further down our particular list.
Don Bradner
http://www.arcatapet.net
Special request for a Bird wannabe - Tom Warner - 12-12-2006 04:58
Don you have already done many many more work then the average buyer
goes thru so you must be a serious buyer AND an informed one. This is
what I meant keeping in mind that you already know exactly what you
are looking for.
Make up a list of questions you can ask up front and I would suggest
you look at the list on the vintage bird site to start. Add that you
want closeup clear pictures of everything important that you are
interested in and I would suggest you use http://www.mrolivers.com as a
model, its excellent in my opinion. Ask the sellers to make the list
out. If they are an honest seller and you inform them up front that
you are in the market right now to buy BUT you are not willing to
travel all over the country looking at coaches only to be
disappointed when arriving there, then I believe you will get a good
response. After seeing the information offer them a price that you
feel is reasonable to YOU based on the coaches condition. Thats what
I have done on the most recent purchases I made on every car and
truck etc. It works and they know you are a serious buyer if you go
to all of this trouble. I would add that it makes sense on something
this expensive to have Ralph check the coach out before money changes
hands. You might even add a sentence to them to the effect that if
you go to all of this expense then you expect the seller to pay
Ralphs expenses if there is something that has been misrepresented.
tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40
At 11:36 AM 12/12/2006, you wrote:
>On 12/11/2006 at 11:22 PM Tom Warner wrote:
>
> >A recommendation for you . NOTHING is impossible when it comes to
> >buying any motorhome. A 1997 Bluebird LXI just sold for less then
> >$170,000 and a 1991 Prevost Liberty is for sale right now for less
> >then $170,000 at Paul Davis in Dallas Texas. With the market like
> >it is right now and if you are a knowledgable buyer anything is
> >possible. People pass away and coaches need to be sold to settle an
> >estate. Or people just get sick of advertising the coaches and want
> >to sell now. How about on vintage birds a 1993 for $123,000 with
> >53.000 miles on it? Bird connection has a ton of them . Remember
> >price is not everything. You might save a little on a coach and then
> >spends lots getting it up to snuff.
>
>I guess I don't understand the recommendation you are trying to
>convey? You mention coaches selling at or below market value, of
>which there are legions available, then conclude with two sentences
>that imply that is not a good thing from a buyer's perspective? I
>mentioned a couple I tossed from my personal choice list for price,
>a 94 for $184K, and a 90 for $150K. Nothing about that was intended
>to imply anything about the quality of either, just how
>out-of-market they were.
>
>I'm doing what I can to be an informed buyer in all respects;
>knowing what the ballpark price is, is part of that
>
>Here's what I'm aware of now in 90-94 PT40s for sale, asking price
>and mileage (I have a lot more data on each, but this is just for a
>general market overview):
>
>1990
>$79,500 90000
>$90,000 173000
>$96,500 123500
>$105,000 112000
>$140,000 25000 (note: this is the one I had above at $150K,
>the BBC price, but I saw it last night on rvtraderonline for $140K)
>
>1991
>$93,000 181000
>$95,000 104000
>$99,999 58000
>$119,000 98000
>$129,000 40000
>$140,000 87000
>
>1992
>$123,600 102000
>$128,000 118000
>
>1993
>$105,000 125000
>$110,000 113000
>$110,000 145000
>$119,500 79000 (another one where the BBC price is higher,
>$123,500 and $129,500 in the same listing)
>$123,000 59500
>$135,000 77000
>$135,000 103000
>
>1994
>$119,000 119000
>$126,000 93000
>$129,000 143000 (this is the mid-entry. Sold for $125K last week)
>$139,000 120000
>$150,000 39000
>$155,900 145000
>$185,500 86000
>
>I did not include some at dealerships that choose not to list prices
>- don't like that particular game.
>
>Negotiation of prices is tough for someone like me. I hate
>dickering. I look at that last one at $185500, and I say "it looks
>to me like $135K is about right, but if I offer 135K they will come
>back with $160K and then what do I do. If I offer $85K to try to
>work to the middle/market price, how could they consider me a serious buyer?"
>
>Price is not the only consideration by any means - if it were I
>would be pursuing the lowest, but there are other things that rate a
>number of the lower-priced ones further down our particular list.
>
>
>
>
>Don Bradner
>http://www.arcatapet.net
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Special request for a Bird wannabe - Leroy Eckert - 12-12-2006 06:54
Three years ago we were in your shoes. We began searching with our eyes wide
open, without any knowledge and a heavy dose of Cavet Emptor. We did what you
are doing, gathering data on coaches. We identified, looked at and eliminated
about 13 coaches Bluebird and Prevost before taking one last shot at it. We
found a Prevost in the Trader rag and a Bird on the net. You know, I can tell
ya it gets pricey running around looking at motorhomes.
We looked at the Prevost in Tampa and bought the Bird on the spot in Wilmington,
NC. In our case, we paid the asking price because the owner wasn't budging one
dollar. He did not accept my offer and he did not run me off. It was more than
I wanted to pay but time has proven I got what I paid for. The coach was well
cared for and the paper work in order. The owner was a knowledgable Bird owner,
had 2 prior to the one we bought, and is now a Prevost owner getting ready to
return to a Bird. He pointed out everything he knew and was honest about it.
We have remained friends and meet at the races at Talladega.
I wouldn't suggest anyone follow our path, just sharing our experience. If you
don't feel good about inspecting the Bird to Be someone out there who knows will
do it for you. Don't be afraid to make an offer, pick the price you are willing
to pay and see what happens. You never know, you might own a Bird. If it
doesn't work out, there is another one out there.
Personally, I would not sell my coach for $140,000.00 because I cannot replace
what I have for that kind of money.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 "Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Bradner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Special request for a Bird wannabe
Guess I'll speak for myself on this one - thanks to Bruce for the intro.
I'm concentrating on the 90-94 years. I've been watching the market carefully
since around August 1, and I have a personal database built up from the various
sites showing 30 PT40s between 1988 and 1996. Since that point on a US swing we
visited Holland in Michigan, Snyder's in Virginia, Bleakley in Georgia, and
Motor Home Specialists in Texas, where we got to see a goodly number of Birds in
person.
Preference would be for mid-entry which would mean 1994 or later, unless they
did some custom prior to that. Since August 1, I'm only aware of one mid-entry
PT40 for sale, in Missouri. Listed at least since early July. On Friday, when I
became financially able to negotiate in earnest (a few months earlier than
expected, some things fell into place) I called the guy, and he sold it
Thursday.
The wife says "NO LAMINATE INTERIORS, WOOD ONLY" and that cuts the list
exactly in half. Budget removes 5 from my list - price too high to consider
making an insulting offer. $184K for a '94? $150K for a '90? I don't think so.
We are in California, so I give some preference to Birds in the west. There is
a '90 at Desert West in Phoenix that interests us, but I need some eyes-on with
it. I'm leaning towards using a professional inspection service, but I would
also love to get a PT40-savvy person to look at it. If there's someone who
combines both, I'd like to talk to them.
On 12/12/2006 at 3:26 AM Jay Darst wrote:
>Bruce,
>
>I have been contacted by several owners interested in moving PT40's.
>
>What years would he consider?
>
>Jay Darst
>85PT40
>Springfield, IL
>
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
>
>>
>> Don Bradner has been posting in this forum. He is looking for a Bird.
>I
>> dont know if anyone else is familiar with Don but he owns the
>Datastorm
>> users forum and has written a lot of specialized software for RV
>> satellite internet owners. Don posts on a lot of RV forums about
>> satellite internet and is extermely knowledgeable. He has helped
>> thousands of RV owners. I am posting all of the above as I would love
>> to see him get some help from PT40 owners in this forum. Don would be
>a
>> natural BB owner. Perhaps one of us knows of a good PT 40 that is for
>> sale.
>>
>> Bruce 1988 FC35
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Don Bradner
http://www.arcatapet.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]