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+--- Thread: Let's talk about heat... (/showthread.php?tid=4034)
Let's talk about heat... - Pete Masterson - 12-19-2006 14:05
I have a '95 [PT]42 diagonal aisle -- all electric (no LP gas). I
have the AquaHot 431 for heat and domestic hot water.
I'm trying to wrap my brain around the various controls:
I have 3 Dometic thermostats located in the bedroom (rear), in the
center and above the driver. These operate the three AC units when
set to "AC" and (apparently) operate the Aquahot heat when set to "GAS".
The rear thermostat works as expected and heat blows out from both
sides behind the (side island) bed. The fan that moves the heat is
barely audible.
The center thermostat operates a radiator beneath the kitchen
cabinets and another one beneath one of the sofas toward the front.
The fan for the radiator beneath the kitchen cabinets sounds like a
jet taking off ... but (thankfully) the one under the sofa is barely
audible.
Now here's where it gets interesting. The thermostat above the driver
doesn't seem to do much, if anything, with the heat. There appears to
be a radiator in the dashboard area and a very gentle bit of heat
comes out. If a fan is running, I can't hear it. I would expect this
heat would be controlled by the front thermostat, but it seems to
work in connection with the center one. (I haven't had the
opportunity to experiment more fully.) Of course, if the center heat
is on, the loud fan from under the kitchen cabinets drowns out any
fan noise from the other fans (making it hard to detect from sound
alone which is working). Question: Is there any way to adjust the fan
speed and/or make it quieter? (the fan speed switch on the thermostat
has no effect).
Finally, the AquaHot has radiators and fans in the basement with a
"cold" thermostat that allows setting the temperature as low as 40
degrees. If the thermostats in the "upstairs" are all off, then the
fans come on, but I didn't detect any heat (perhaps I didn't wait
long enough). Does the basement heat work independently of the other
heat?
In addition, I have 3 thermostats (square-shaped) that control
electric heat. Two of the electric heaters are in the bathroom with
two thermostats. This is convenient as you can make the bathroom
rather toasty during a shower and you can also select the heater that
doesn't burn your feet depending on where you're standing in the
bathroom.
The third thermostat is right next to the Dometic one in the center
of the coach. When a switch is set to "cool" it operates the roof
mounted ventilator fan. When the switch is set to "heat" there's a
loud "click" but nothing happens. I can see a grill similar to those
in the bathroom for an electric heater under the kitchen cabinets --
I presume this is an electric heater like those in the bathroom, but
it apparently isn't working. (What kind of heater is this? Where can
I get parts or replacements?)
In addition, there is, apparently a chassis heating system that's
controlled by the same controller that operates the chassis AC. It
blows out warm air through the same vents that the chassis AC uses. I
don't know if it provides heat elsewhere in the coach.
There is a switch on the dashboard called "hydronic heat" -- I have
this switch on (since I want the heat to work) -- but what, exactly,
does it do? Will the Aquahot work with it off? Or, does this use heat
from the engine?
Lastly, the Aquahot burner (runs on diesel) doesn't come on
consistently with the arrival of heat. Is there an electric heating
element as well? Does this provide initial/low heat levels?
Any help with these questions will be appreciated. (I've spent time
with the blue box --- but it's very general and isn't very specific
about the heating system.) We're in the midst of a "cold snap" where
the lows have been around 28 (highs in mid 50s) ... so I want to be
sure that nothing will freeze up, so I've got the heat on in the
bedroom at 50 degrees or so and the basement does seem warmer than
the outside air in the morning. The coach also has 30 Amps of shore
power (keeping the batteries up) in its present state.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let's talk about heat... - Fred Hulse - 12-20-2006 08:40
Pete
You should have only two zones for your Aqua hot. Center & rear.
The front under dash heater is most likely electric, and is controlled by
the front thermostat.
Then you should have a bathroom Thermostat to control the heater in there.
Fred & Jeanne Hulse
Morristown Arizona
1997 mid door Wanderlodge WB41
Let's talk about heat... - Pete Masterson - 12-20-2006 09:09
Fred,
Thanks... that helps. The front thermostat didn't seem to matter
where it was set (or it it were on or off) -- it had no effect on the
heat.
The center thermostat seems to control everything except the bedroom.
The bath has 2 thermostats and 2 electric heaters.
The heat coming out of the dash seems to be controlled by the center
thermostat ... but it's barely noticeable.
I note that the AquaHot radiators that are under things (like the
kitchen counter) has a particular type of grating that's similar to
the opening under the front dash. There are 3 electric heaters, 2 in
the bath and one under the kitchen counters... but it doesn't work,
so far as I can tell.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Dec 20, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Fred Hulse wrote:
>
> Pete
> You should have only two zones for your Aqua hot. Center & rear.
> The front under dash heater is most likely electric, and is
> controlled by
> the front thermostat.
> Then you should have a bathroom Thermostat to control the heater in
> there.
>
> Fred & Jeanne Hulse
> Morristown Arizona
> 1997 mid door Wanderlodge WB41
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let's talk about heat... - g_man1146 - 12-20-2006 09:53
Hi Pete,
Although I am not familiar with your AquaHot setup, I can tell you
how the AquaHot #431 is set up in my '99.
I have three zones of heat supplied by the AquaHot PLUS a bay loop
that provides heat there.
I have the Dometic three zone AC/Heat control that operates all
three air conditioners BUT ONLY controls TWO heat zones (Bedroom and
kitchen/living area including a heat exchanger under the dash). The
third AquaHot heat zone is in the bathroom and controlled by a
Robert Shaw thermostat identical to the one next to it that controls
the bathroom electric heat. All fans are a very quiet "computer
type" cooling fan. there are two in each heat exchanger.
<<SNIPS>>
> The fan for the radiator beneath the kitchen cabinets sounds like
ajet taking off ... but (thankfully) the one under the sofa is
barely audible.
I had a broken mount on the fan for the heat exchanger under the
kitchen sink. It is located so it is vulnerable when winterizing the
instant hot. The blades were rubbing slightly and the repair
resulted in whisper quiet operation. If it is just a noisy fan you
may be able to swap it out with the pancake type used in the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Now here's where it gets interesting. The thermostat above the
driver doesn't seem to do much, if anything, with the heat. There
appears to be a radiator in the dashboard area and a very gentle bit
of heat comes out. If a fan is running, I can't hear it. I would
expect this heat would be controlled by the front thermostat, but
it seems to work in connection with the center one.
On my coach that heat exchanger is controlled by the center
thermostat. Because it is farthest from the AquaHot you may need to
adjust the valve that feeds that loop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Finally, the AquaHot has radiators and fans in the basement with a
> "cold" thermostat that allows setting the temperature as low as 40
> degrees. If the thermostats in the "upstairs" are all off, then
the fans come on, but I didn't detect any heat (perhaps I didn't
wait long enough). Does the basement heat work independently of
the other > heat?
I believe the bay zone is a slave from the bathroom loop. If you
don't run this zone no hot water will circulate through the bay heat
exchangers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> In addition, I have 3 thermostats (square-shaped) that control
> electric heat. Two of the electric heaters are in the bathroom
with two thermostats. This is convenient as you can make the
bathroom rather toasty during a shower and you can also select the
heater that > doesn't burn your feet depending on where you're
standing in the bathroom.
AS previously stated the second thermostat in the bathroom is the
AquaHot heat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> The third thermostat is right next to the Dometic one in the
center of the coach. When a switch is set to "cool" it operates the
roof mounted ventilator fan. When the switch is set to "heat"
there's a loud "click" but nothing happens. I can see a grill
similar to those in the bathroom for an electric heater under the
kitchen cabinets. I presume this is an electric heater like those in
the bathroom, but it apparently isn't working. (What kind of heater
is this? Where can I get parts or replacements?)
These are 120VAC "toe space heaters "Cadet" and other companies make
them. First see if there is an additional thermostat on the front of
the heater - is yes, turn it all the way up. If not, turn the power
off and pull out your dead heater. See if there is an overheat
protection device inside (some were on the front) and reset it.
NOTE: If it tripped there is a reason, usually they become clogged
with dust/lint and if so vacuum it out well before putting it back.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> In addition, there is, apparently a chassis heating system that's
> controlled by the same controller that operates the chassis AC.
It blows out warm air through the same vents that the chassis AC
uses. I don't know if it provides heat elsewhere in the coach.
On my '90 without AquaHot there were additional chassis heaters. On
this coach with AquaHot there are no additional chassis heaters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> There is a switch on the dashboard called "hydronic heat" -- I
have this switch on (since I want the heat to work) -- but what,
exactly,> does it do? Will the Aquahot work with it off? Or, does
this use heat from the engine?
This switch activates the circuit for the AquaHot's diesel burner.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Lastly, the Aquahot burner (runs on diesel) doesn't come on
> consistently with the arrival of heat. Is there an electric
heating element as well? Does this provide initial/low heat levels?
The AquaHot boiler gets its heat from three separate sources; An
electric element when connected to shore or generator, the diesel
(Webasto) burner and from an engine loop when the bus engine is
running. The diesel burner is set to come on when the boiler
temperature falls below 190 degrees and the dash "Hydronic Heat"
switch is ON. The electric element has a 198 degree thermostat and
that will operate whether or not the dash switch is ON, as long as
the circuit breaker (mine is marked "Hot Water") is on and you have
120 VAC.
You can still download manuals from Vehicle Systems web site if your
blue box does not have what you need.
Rich D. '99LXi43' CT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Any help with these questions will be appreciated. (I've spent
time
> with the blue box --- but it's very general and isn't very
specific
> about the heating system.) We're in the midst of a "cold snap"
where
> the lows have been around 28 (highs in mid 50s) ... so I want to
be
> sure that nothing will freeze up, so I've got the heat on in the
> bedroom at 50 degrees or so and the basement does seem warmer
than
> the outside air in the morning. The coach also has 30 Amps of
shore
> power (keeping the batteries up) in its present state.
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
> El Sobrante, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Let's talk about heat... - Pete Masterson - 12-20-2006 10:42
Rich ...
Thank you ... this explains a lot!
I guess there are a few differences between my 95 and your 99 ... but
your description helps me.
My bath only has electric toe space heaters -- two of them --
controlled by two Robert Shaw thermostats. There's no hot water
radiators in the bath at all. With the diagonal aisle version of the
floor plan, the bathroom is to one side of the aisle that passes on
the curb side. There is one electric heater under the sink and the
second electric heater is under a full-height closet that's right
next to the toilet. It's an intelligent arrangement as you can have
the "other" heat on and not have it burning your foot depending on
where in the bathroom you may be.
In an experiment I finished a few minutes ago, I find that my
basement heat is the third zone from the Aquahot (I counted 3
outgoing pipes from the Aquahot boiler ...). The basement heat comes
on independently from the interior zones. (Just as well... as I've
been afraid that an unexpected freeze during the night might damage
something. I can leave the basement thermostat "on" at 40 or so ...
and not worry that something else needs to be on as well.)
I'll pull the electric heater from under the kitchen counter and try
to figure out what's going on with it (repair or replace as
necessary) and I'll dig around and try to see what's up with the fan
for the water radiator under the sink.
This is one of those times when knowing what "normal" is makes a big
difference. Thank you for the help in understanding this system.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Dec 20, 2006, at 1:53 PM, g_man1146 wrote:
> Hi Pete,
>
> Although I am not familiar with your AquaHot setup, I can tell you
> how the AquaHot #431 is set up in my '99.
> <snip>
> Rich D. '99LXi43' CT
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let's talk about heat... - Fred Hulse - 12-20-2006 11:43
Pete
You will need to turn on your dash switch for air conditioner # 1 for your
living room heaters to work.
And there is a thermostat also for them.
Fred & Jeanne Hulse
Morristown Arizona
1997 Wanderlodge WB41
Let's talk about heat... - g_man1146 - 12-21-2006 08:44
Pete,
Here is a link to replacement toe-space heaters. I think you will find
an exact fit in case you can't repair yours.
http://www.cadetco.com/show_product.php?prodid=1005
The 120VAC models come in 750 watt and 1000 watt.
Rich D. '99LXi43' CT
Let's talk about heat... - Pete Masterson - 12-21-2006 12:36
RIch,
Thanks.... I'll file that link. Turning on the center AC switch on
the dash board did the trick ... the toe-space heater under the
kitchen cabinets now works. (Now I just have to clean 'em all...)
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Dec 21, 2006, at 12:44 PM, g_man1146 wrote:
> Pete,
>
> Here is a link to replacement toe-space heaters. I think you will find
> an exact fit in case you can't repair yours.
>
> http://www.cadetco.com/show_product.php?prodid=1005
>
> The 120VAC models come in 750 watt and 1000 watt.
>
> Rich D. '99LXi43' CT
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let's talk about heat... - Curt Sprenger - 12-21-2006 15:18
Pete,
I hope you are writing all this down so it's available as a reminder for
the future. I find I have to retrain myself between winter and summer
operation. The new 'Birds have way more STUFF then my old '87.
Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, Calif.
Pete Masterson wrote:
>RIch,
>
>Thanks.... I'll file that link. Turning on the center AC switch on
>the dash board did the trick ... the toe-space heater under the
>kitchen cabinets now works. (Now I just have to clean 'em all...)
>
>Pete Masterson
>aeonix1@...
>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
>El Sobrante, CA
>
>
>
>
>On Dec 21, 2006, at 12:44 PM, g_man1146 wrote:
>
>
>
>>Pete,
>>
>>Here is a link to replacement toe-space heaters. I think you will find
>>an exact fit in case you can't repair yours.
>>
>>http://www.cadetco.com/show_product.php?prodid=1005
>>
>>The 120VAC models come in 750 watt and 1000 watt.
>>
>>Rich D. '99LXi43' CT
>>
>>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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