Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) (/showthread.php?tid=6155) Pages: 1 2 |
Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Donald Watson - 12-28-2007 12:08 This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I have not yet changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission would dictate the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience was with a 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder about the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. He has apparently done some engineering. My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of FCs with manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a 3406B Cat and 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I could study the parts involved and learn more. Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I wonder how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was dialed in correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when necessary and lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be willing to spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not sure how much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new bell housing would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, the number of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in the optimum rpm range at any road speed. This is definitely 'food for thought'. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI ________________________________________ From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's Allison 653. Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed rig. ----- Original Message ----- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's are dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In other words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the road.... John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked well in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT as power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion that nothing else will work for me. > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't get better than that in my world. > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the race car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car and chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length at the stripe. It's all relative you know. Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Mike Hohnstein - 12-28-2007 16:35 I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop down to allow access. I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project in the fall of 08. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I have not yet changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission would dictate the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience was with a 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder about the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. He has apparently done some engineering. My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of FCs with manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a 3406B Cat and 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I could study the parts involved and learn more. Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I wonder how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was dialed in correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when necessary and lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be willing to spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not sure how much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new bell housing would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, the number of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in the optimum rpm range at any road speed. This is definitely 'food for thought'. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI ________________________________________ From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's Allison 653. Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed rig. ----- Original Message ----- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's are dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In other words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the road.... John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked well in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT as power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion that nothing else will work for me. > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't get better than that in my world. > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the race car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car and chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length at the stripe. It's all relative you know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - bubblerboy64 - 12-28-2007 17:30 Mike, You're gonna hafta speak english so we understand that. A brownie box what? Air shifter who? John Heckman central Pa 1973FC > > I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop down to allow access. > I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project in the fall of 08. > MH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Watson > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) > > > This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I have not yet > changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission would dictate > the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience was with a > 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder about > the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. He has > apparently done some engineering. > > My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of FCs with > manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a 3406B Cat and > 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I could study > the parts involved and learn more. > > Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I wonder > how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was dialed in > correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when necessary and > lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be willing to > spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not sure how > much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new bell housing > would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, the number > of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in the optimum > rpm range at any road speed. > > This is definitely 'food for thought'. > > Donn > '76 FC33 > South Kingstown, RI > > ________________________________________ > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his > Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... > > I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's Allison 653. > Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed rig. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bubblerboy64 > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's > Extended Gri... > > Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift > anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's are > dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In other > words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the > road.... > John Heckman > central Pa > 1973 FC > > > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked well > in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT as > power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even > some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion that > nothing else will work for me. > > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at > walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't get > better than that in my world. > > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the race > car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed > manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car and > chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my > shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a > youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand > what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by > hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 > mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length at > the stripe. It's all relative you know. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Mike Hohnstein - 12-28-2007 20:46 Auxillary 3 range transmission, used in truck applications before the advent of the Fuller/Roadranger. Air shifter is what it is. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:30 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) Mike, You're gonna hafta speak english so we understand that. A brownie box what? Air shifter who? John Heckman central Pa 1973FC > > I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop down to allow access. > I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project in the fall of 08. > MH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Watson > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) > > > This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I have not yet > changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission would dictate > the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience was with a > 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder about > the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. He has > apparently done some engineering. > > My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of FCs with > manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a 3406B Cat and > 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I could study > the parts involved and learn more. > > Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I wonder > how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was dialed in > correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when necessary and > lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be willing to > spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not sure how > much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new bell housing > would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, the number > of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in the optimum > rpm range at any road speed. > > This is definitely 'food for thought'. > > Donn > '76 FC33 > South Kingstown, RI > > ________________________________________ > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his > Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... > > I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's Allison 653. > Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed rig. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bubblerboy64 > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's > Extended Gri... > > Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift > anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's are > dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In other > words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the > road.... > John Heckman > central Pa > 1973 FC > > > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked well > in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT as > power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even > some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion that > nothing else will work for me. > > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at > walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't get > better than that in my world. > > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the race > car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed > manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car and > chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my > shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a > youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand > what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by > hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 > mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length at > the stripe. It's all relative you know. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Dorn Hetzel - 12-29-2007 05:59 Mike, Would that be applicable to a 77FC35 CAT3208 ? What would the end result be if so? Regards, Dorn Hetzel 77FC35 Hogansville, GA On Dec 29, 2007 3:46 AM, Mike Hohnstein <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote: > Auxillary 3 range transmission, used in truck applications before the > advent of the Fuller/Roadranger. Air shifter is what it is. > MH > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bubblerboy64 > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:30 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question > for John H.....) > > Mike, You're gonna hafta speak english so we understand that. A > brownie box what? Air shifter who? > John Heckman > central Pa > 1973FC > > > > > I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty > easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the > Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables > for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way > of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop > down to allow access. > > I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the > drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom > drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. > The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project > in the fall of 08. > > MH > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Donald Watson > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: > Question for John H.....) > > > > > > This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I > have not yet > > changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission > would dictate > > the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience > was with a > > 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder > about > > the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. > He has > > apparently done some engineering. > > > > My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of > FCs with > > manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a > 3406B Cat and > > 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I > could study > > the parts involved and learn more. > > > > Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I > wonder > > how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was > dialed in > > correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when > necessary and > > lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be > willing to > > spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not > sure how > > much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new > bell housing > > would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, > the number > > of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in > the optimum > > rpm range at any road speed. > > > > This is definitely 'food for thought'. > > > > Donn > > '76 FC33 > > South Kingstown, RI > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > On Behalf Of Mike > Hohnstein > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his > > Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... > > > > I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's > Allison 653. > > Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed > rig. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: bubblerboy64 > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his > Wanderlodge's > > Extended Gri... > > > > Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift > > anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's > are > > dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In > other > > words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the > > road.... > > John Heckman > > central Pa > > 1973 FC > > > > > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked > well > > in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT > as > > power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even > > some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > > > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion > that > > nothing else will work for me. > > > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at > > walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't > get > > better than that in my world. > > > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the > race > > car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed > > manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car > and > > chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my > > shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a > > youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand > > what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by > > hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 > > mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length > at > > the stripe. It's all relative you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Steve Pfiffner - 12-29-2007 06:23 This has been a great thread, but if my Allison was good I would be looking for the two speed rear end that would be a pretty easy swap. Finding which one and with ratios in the needed ranges is tough but it should be much cheaper and easier than a transmission swap. Steve.....Wannabee Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Mike Hohnstein - 12-29-2007 08:09 The Wanderlodge OEM rear axle doesn't retro fit to 2sp. The whole axle needs to be replaced, that's why I didn't go there. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Pfiffner To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) This has been a great thread, but if my Allison was good I would be looking for the two speed rear end that would be a pretty easy swap. Finding which one and with ratios in the needed ranges is tough but it should be much cheaper and easier than a transmission swap. Steve.....Wannabee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Mike Hohnstein - 12-29-2007 08:26 The unit I have is 14%, effective 4.55 final drive in OD off your 5.29. Eaton auxillary transmissions have a bunch of ratios. Adelman Truck Parts in Canton OH is where I got mine. Paid a grand for it with new bearings and seals. Had to fabricate a mounting arrangement, get new shafts made and do up a shifter. Probably took 30 hrs. My plan is to install the Roadranger this fall after we get back from out west. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Dorn Hetzel To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) Mike, Would that be applicable to a 77FC35 CAT3208 ? What would the end result be if so? Regards, Dorn Hetzel 77FC35 Hogansville, GA On Dec 29, 2007 3:46 AM, Mike Hohnstein <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote: > Auxillary 3 range transmission, used in truck applications before the > advent of the Fuller/Roadranger. Air shifter is what it is. > MH > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bubblerboy64 > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:30 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question > for John H.....) > > Mike, You're gonna hafta speak english so we understand that. A > brownie box what? Air shifter who? > John Heckman > central Pa > 1973FC > > > > > I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty > easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the > Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables > for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way > of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop > down to allow access. > > I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the > drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom > drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. > The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project > in the fall of 08. > > MH > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Donald Watson > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: > Question for John H.....) > > > > > > This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I > have not yet > > changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission > would dictate > > the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience > was with a > > 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder > about > > the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. > He has > > apparently done some engineering. > > > > My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of > FCs with > > manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a > 3406B Cat and > > 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I > could study > > the parts involved and learn more. > > > > Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I > wonder > > how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was > dialed in > > correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when > necessary and > > lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be > willing to > > spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not > sure how > > much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new > bell housing > > would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, > the number > > of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in > the optimum > > rpm range at any road speed. > > > > This is definitely 'food for thought'. > > > > Donn > > '76 FC33 > > South Kingstown, RI > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > On Behalf Of Mike > Hohnstein > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his > > Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... > > > > I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's > Allison 653. > > Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed > rig. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: bubblerboy64 > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his > Wanderlodge's > > Extended Gri... > > > > Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift > > anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's > are > > dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In > other > > words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the > > road.... > > John Heckman > > central Pa > > 1973 FC > > > > > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked > well > > in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT > as > > power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even > > some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > > > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion > that > > nothing else will work for me. > > > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at > > walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't > get > > better than that in my world. > > > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the > race > > car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed > > manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car > and > > chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my > > shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a > > youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand > > what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by > > hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 > > mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length > at > > the stripe. It's all relative you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Donald Watson - 12-30-2007 03:52 Mike - What "cables for the shifter" are you referring to? Is this some mechanical device to replace the shift tower we're familiar with in tractors? If this FC of yours is the coach with the 4.88 gear set, a single overdrive gear would give a gear reduction of .87 or a final result of 4.24. According to the following current Roadranger publication, these are the ratios for current 13 speed transmissions: http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@roadranger/documents/conte nt/rr_rrsl-0001.pdf 7th over (11th gear) = 1.00 (direct) 8th direct (12th gear) = .86 8th over (13th gear) = .73 I'm not sure why 7th over is direct. This reminds me of RTOO (double-overdrive) gearing. I mention RTO series because that was what I was familiar with and what are readily available, but Eaton/Fuller now offer a newer series of transmissions with higher torque ratings. The 18 speed transmissions now split the lower range which I find desirable for heavy loads, but not necessarily of interest in our application. This Eaton publication probably gives a more realistic representation of what one would find in a used RTO 12513 http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@roadranger/documents/conte nt/rr_apsl-0189.pdf 7th over (11th gear) = 1.34 8th direct (12th gear) = 1.00 (direct) 8th over (13th gear) = .87 I guess I'll have to play with a spreadsheet and figure out what rpm/speed I'll find in each gear based on various rear end ratios. I appreciate Mike's input on this topic. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:35 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop down to allow access. I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project in the fall of 08. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I have not yet changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission would dictate the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience was with a 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder about the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. He has apparently done some engineering. My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of FCs with manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a 3406B Cat and 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I could study the parts involved and learn more. Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I wonder how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was dialed in correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when necessary and lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be willing to spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not sure how much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new bell housing would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, the number of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in the optimum rpm range at any road speed. This is definitely 'food for thought'. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI ________________________________________ From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's Allison 653. Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed rig. ----- Original Message ----- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's are dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In other words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the road.... John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked well in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT as power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion that nothing else will work for me. > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't get better than that in my world. > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the race car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car and chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length at the stripe. It's all relative you know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) - Mike Hohnstein - 12-30-2007 05:21 google Tuthill Contols. My unit is a RTO6613, all I know is it drops 500 rpm when I grab OD and I did break in on the propane. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) Mike - What "cables for the shifter" are you referring to? Is this some mechanical device to replace the shift tower we're familiar with in tractors? If this FC of yours is the coach with the 4.88 gear set, a single overdrive gear would give a gear reduction of .87 or a final result of 4.24. According to the following current Roadranger publication, these are the ratios for current 13 speed transmissions: http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@roadranger/documents/conte nt/rr_rrsl-0001.pdf 7th over (11th gear) = 1.00 (direct) 8th direct (12th gear) = .86 8th over (13th gear) = .73 I'm not sure why 7th over is direct. This reminds me of RTOO (double-overdrive) gearing. I mention RTO series because that was what I was familiar with and what are readily available, but Eaton/Fuller now offer a newer series of transmissions with higher torque ratings. The 18 speed transmissions now split the lower range which I find desirable for heavy loads, but not necessarily of interest in our application. This Eaton publication probably gives a more realistic representation of what one would find in a used RTO 12513 http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@roadranger/documents/conte nt/rr_apsl-0189.pdf 7th over (11th gear) = 1.34 8th direct (12th gear) = 1.00 (direct) 8th over (13th gear) = .87 I guess I'll have to play with a spreadsheet and figure out what rpm/speed I'll find in each gear based on various rear end ratios. I appreciate Mike's input on this topic. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:35 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop down to allow access. I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project in the fall of 08. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I have not yet changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission would dictate the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience was with a 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder about the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. He has apparently done some engineering. My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of FCs with manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a 3406B Cat and 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I could study the parts involved and learn more. Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I wonder how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was dialed in correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when necessary and lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be willing to spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not sure how much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new bell housing would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, the number of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in the optimum rpm range at any road speed. This is definitely 'food for thought'. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI ________________________________________ From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's Allison 653. Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed rig. ----- Original Message ----- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's are dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In other words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the road.... John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked well in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT as power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion that nothing else will work for me. > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't get better than that in my world. > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the race car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car and chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length at the stripe. It's all relative you know. 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