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+--- Thread: LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar (/showthread.php?tid=6254)
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - david brady - 01-22-2008 16:39
Folks,
As many of you know, I've been trying to get my LXi to ride better
for quite some time. I've added Koni FSD's to the rear, set the ride
height to spec, played with the tag axle air-bag pressure, and finely
calibrated my tire pressures. All of these efforts paid off but none
offered the big bang I was looking for. I've long been considering
disconnecting the front sway bar to see what effect it has on the
ride quality. As many of you know, the LXi was the first Wanderlodge
to be factory equipped with a front sway bar. The sway bar is 2.125"
in diameter and provides 2500 lbs/in of spring rate at the wheel.
Well, around 1000 miles ago I disconnected the bar and the results
are astonishing. Folks out there who have experience with aftermarket
sway bars know that they are quite effective in limiting lean in
turns and at sprucing up the steering response in general. What I
found after disconnecting mine is that the bird does lean more in a
turn, but the suspension quickly settles providing good turn-in and
corner stability. During crosswinds, I can feel the bird roll with
each gust, but the steering control isn't terribly effected. What is
changed dramatically is the ride. For the first time, my LXi's front
suspension actually absorbs bumps! In addition, gone is the
porpoising that I thought was endemic to the entire Wanderlodge line.
It turns out that my front air-bags offer 2500 lb/in of spring rate
at the wheel; the sway bar doubles this to 5000 lb/in. Also, the
front shocks are tuned to handle the dampening of the air-bags; the
sway bar is largely undamped. If I increase the Koni dampening to
include the sway bar, then on straight ahead bumps, the ride becomes
extremely harsh. The undamped sway bar causes the front end to
sometimes launch resulting in huge weight transfer to the rear axle,
right at the time that the rear axle is hitting the bump, causing the
rear axle to launch vertically, etc. All of that is gone. The bird
doesn't porpoise; it's front axle has independent wheel movement; and
it absorbs bumps instead of launching the vehicle into a rocking to-
and-fro frenzy. What a difference. As I stated earlier, there are
handling compromises, but to me the improvement in ride easily
outways the increase in driver dilligence in heavy crosswinds. What
I'd like to do is to try a lighter weight bar. Something on the order
of 500 to 1000 lbs/in of spring rate; or better yet, something like
HWH's Active Air. But for now, I'm enjoying the ride.
David Brady
'02 LXi, FL
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - Jon - 01-22-2008 18:11
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "david brady"
wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> As many of you know, I've been trying to get my LXi to ride better
> for quite some time. I've added Koni FSD's to the rear, set the
ride
> height to spec, played with the tag axle air-bag pressure, and
finely
> calibrated my tire pressures. All of these efforts paid off but
none
> offered the big bang I was looking for. I've long been considering
> disconnecting the front sway bar to see what effect it has on the
> ride quality. As many of you know, the LXi was the first
Wanderlodge
> to be factory equipped with a front sway bar. The sway bar is
2.125"
> in diameter and provides 2500 lbs/in of spring rate at the wheel.
> Well, around 1000 miles ago I disconnected the bar and the results
> are astonishing. Folks out there who have experience with
aftermarket
> sway bars know that they are quite effective in limiting lean in
> turns and at sprucing up the steering response in general. What I
> found after disconnecting mine is that the bird does lean more in a
> turn, but the suspension quickly settles providing good turn-in and
> corner stability. During crosswinds, I can feel the bird roll with
> each gust, but the steering control isn't terribly effected. What
is
> changed dramatically is the ride. For the first time, my LXi's
front
> suspension actually absorbs bumps! In addition, gone is the
> porpoising that I thought was endemic to the entire Wanderlodge
line.
> It turns out that my front air-bags offer 2500 lb/in of spring rate
> at the wheel; the sway bar doubles this to 5000 lb/in. Also, the
> front shocks are tuned to handle the dampening of the air-bags; the
> sway bar is largely undamped. If I increase the Koni dampening to
> include the sway bar, then on straight ahead bumps, the ride
becomes
> extremely harsh. The undamped sway bar causes the front end to
> sometimes launch resulting in huge weight transfer to the rear
axle,
> right at the time that the rear axle is hitting the bump, causing
the
> rear axle to launch vertically, etc. All of that is gone. The bird
> doesn't porpoise; it's front axle has independent wheel movement;
and
> it absorbs bumps instead of launching the vehicle into a rocking to-
> and-fro frenzy. What a difference. As I stated earlier, there are
> handling compromises, but to me the improvement in ride easily
> outways the increase in driver dilligence in heavy crosswinds. What
> I'd like to do is to try a lighter weight bar. Something on the
order
> of 500 to 1000 lbs/in of spring rate; or better yet, something like
> HWH's Active Air. But for now, I'm enjoying the ride.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, FL
Well that is interesting. I wonder how many of the commercial
bluebird buses have this sway bar installed? Seems like the
Wanderlodge engineers mist something when they installed that
particular sway bar set up. Have you tried to contact the people at
the Bluebird company to see if they have a lighter set up? Well
anyway very interesting report and should it give a good heads up to
fellow owners of the Lxi's. Thanks
Jon
Bremerton
>
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - david brady - 01-23-2008 03:19
Jon,
I did speak to BB service personel explaining my experience. The
service folks had no issue with removing the bar regarding vehicle
handling dynamics. I want to emphasize that I removed the bar, not BB.
There's no question that the handling is "looser", but not excessively
so. I'd guess that it's much like any of the "bar-less" Wide Bodies.
The problem with the 2.125" bar is that in a corner, it holds up the
entire bus as opposed to working in conjunction with rear roll
stiffness. The rear of the bus has quite a bit of roll stiffness built
in. The stock front bar makes the LXi corner with virtually no lean. I
don't want a front bar to hold up the entire bus - way too stiff; it
almost eliminates independent front wheel motion.
David Brady
'02 LXi, FL
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jon"
>
> Well that is interesting. I wonder how many of the commercial
> bluebird buses have this sway bar installed? Seems like the
> Wanderlodge engineers mist something when they installed that
> particular sway bar set up. Have you tried to contact the people at
> the Bluebird company to see if they have a lighter set up? Well
> anyway very interesting report and should it give a good heads up to
> fellow owners of the Lxi's. Thanks
>
> Jon
> Bremerton
> >
>
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - martingregg598 - 01-23-2008 05:05
David, How about a electrically activated disconnect like on the new
Jeep Rubicon's, in low wind and straight roads, disconnect, in high
wind and roads with a lot of tight corners, push a button and connect.
I am sure that the same type of system could be made for larger bars
than the Jeep has.
Marty Gregg
95 BMC 37
Kennewick WA.
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - david brady - 01-23-2008 05:18
Hi Marty,
That thought has occurred to me. I'm also a big fan of rubicon lift
kits. The problem is that the bar is so darn stiff the auto
connect/disconnect would have to be engineered very well. The stock
vertical links on the LXi look much like shackles on a leaf spring
suspension. The shear bolts are 5/8" and mounted in double shear. At
these spring rates a quick connect vertical link is beyond my
abilities, plus space is very limited down there. I like the idea
though. I'm thinking active air. The new '09 uses HWH Active Air
without front or rear sway bars.
David Brady
'02 LXi, FL
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "martingregg598"
>
> David, How about a electrically activated disconnect like on the new
> Jeep Rubicon's, in low wind and straight roads, disconnect, in high
> wind and roads with a lot of tight corners, push a button and
connect.
> I am sure that the same type of system could be made for larger bars
> than the Jeep has.
> Marty Gregg
> 95 BMC 37
> Kennewick WA.
>
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - Pete Masterson - 01-23-2008 05:41
With your Florida home base, I realize you're rather far from the
west coast.
I can suggest contacting Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon.
(They may be able to refer you to some one closer to you.) See their
website:
<http://www.hendersonslineup.com>
They sell (and manufacture) a large number of suspension improvement
options for RVs -- and they've worked on several Wanderlodges,
including mine.
Looking at their web site, they sell Roadmaster anti-sway bars -- so
they might have a smaller one for you to try.
If you take your coach to them, they start out with a Road
Performance Assessment -- a trip of a few miles over a variety of
driving conditions -- where their technician analyzes the suspension
characteristics.
They'll then prepare a list of recommendations to improve your
coach's handling.
I used them when my coach was pulling to the right (constantly) and
had a out of balance tire vibration in the front end.
It was quickly found that the Blue Ox True Center steering damper
with trim adjustment was bent and jammed -- I also had a worn tie rod
end (drag link) and an out-of-round tire.
In addition to a new tire (purchased from Schawb tire across the
street), new tie rod components were installed and the steering
damper was replaced with the Henderson's manufactured Safe-T-Plus
steering damper with trim adjustment -- they also gave the adjustable
Koni shocks a slightly more resistant adjustment (one turn).
The handling improvement was substantial and other (expensive)
additions that they could have suggested were deemed "probably
marginal" and not recommended. Indeed, they could easily have 'sold'
me on several unneeded products, but proved to be quite honest in
their suggestions.
In addition to the sway bars they offer, you might find a steering
damper may provide the additional precision to the steering you lose
without the current sway bar. They also offer Super Steer motion
control units -- these are added to the air lines feeding the air
bags to control their reaction rate to reduce sway, roll, and bounce.
See their web site for information about the various products they
offer and here's the URL for the motion control units.
<http://hendersonslineup.com/uncategorized/supersteer-motion-control-
unit/>
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
aeonix1@...
On Jan 22, 2008, at 9:39 PM, david brady wrote:
> Folks,
>
> As many of you know, I've been trying to get my LXi to ride better
> for quite some time. <snip> What
> I'd like to do is to try a lighter weight bar. Something on the order
> of 500 to 1000 lbs/in of spring rate; or better yet, something like
> HWH's Active Air. But for now, I'm enjoying the ride.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, FL
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - david brady - 01-23-2008 06:19
Thanks Pete,
I'll check Henderson's website. I spend a lot of time on the west coast
so a visit is a possibility. I'd like to explore the possibility of a
softer sway bar. I also plan to stiffen the front shocks slightly and
maybe lower the front ride height a smidge to regain some of my lost
handling. Quite franky, I like the way it handles w/o the bar. Feels
more bus like. (Don't plan to do laps at Leguna Seca any time soon)! It
will be interesting to see how HWH's active air performs on the new '09
bus. That may also be a possible upgrade. Right now, I'm thrilled with
the "new" bus ride I have. I've driven Prevost' and my LXi rides pretty
close at this point.
David Brady
'02 LXi, FL (just visiting)
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> With your Florida home base, I realize you're rather far from the
> west coast.
>
> I can suggest contacting Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon.
> (They may be able to refer you to some one closer to you.) See their
> website:
> <http://www.hendersonslineup.com>
>
>
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - brad barton - 01-23-2008 06:45
David,
Sounds fascinating. That's one of the biggest disappointments I have with my beautiful coach- the porpoising. I'm going to study your notes more carefully and may have mine removed before my western trip in about a month.
Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - david brady - 01-23-2008 06:54
Brad,
I removed the two vertical links and swung the bar up and secured it
out of the way. After a thousand miles I'm sure that mine won't be
going back on, so I do plan to completely remove the bar. Removing the
links and swinging the bar out of the way is quick and easy, then you
can go for a test drive on a bumpy road to see what you think.
David Brady
'02 LXi, Fl
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, brad barton <bbartonwx@...>
wrote:
>
>
> David,
> Sounds fascinating. That's one of the biggest disappointments I have
with my beautiful coach- the porpoising. I'm going to study your notes
more carefully and may have mine removed before my western trip in
about a month. Brad Barton 00LXiDFWbbartonwx@...
> _________________________________________________________________
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?
ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
>
LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar - brad barton - 01-23-2008 07:02
David,
I might just have that done. I don't have the facility for it myself. I've been on some bridges and overpasses that have such a vertical undulating frequency that I have to slow down to get better control. I even worry about blowing an airbag or a tire. And I had the shocks tightened up with I first got it. Driving a Newell for five years (no tag) I would have to struggle on a really bad crosswind..and I enjoy the lateral stability of the Blue Bird with the tag. But what you've found is very interesting. I'm also still struggling with the tag solenoid releasing the following tag on rough roads at slow speed. I think I'll have it bypassed completely out.
Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: dmb993@...
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:54:58 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: LXi Front Anti-Sway Bar
Brad,
I removed the two vertical links and swung the bar up and secured it
out of the way. After a thousand miles I'm sure that mine won't be
going back on, so I do plan to completely remove the bar. Removing the
links and swinging the bar out of the way is quick and easy, then you
can go for a test drive on a bumpy road to see what you think.
David Brady
'02 LXi, Fl
--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", brad barton <bbartonwx@.<WBR>..>
wrote:
>
>
> David,
> Sounds fascinating. That's one of the biggest disappointments I have
with my beautiful coach- the porpoising. I'm going to study your notes
more carefully and may have mine removed before my western trip in
about a month. Brad Barton 00LXiDFWbbartonwx@...
> _____________________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com/share. html?
ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_ 012008
>
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!