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+--- Thread: Now Oils, was Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in Nashville (/showthread.php?tid=6629)
Now Oils, was Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in Nashville - mbulriss - 04-22-2008 05:44
Hey Alvie,
What you started was nothing more than an interesting dialog that we
can all learn from. There are good points on both sides. I'll
respond some to Bruce and Pete again later.
To me, a key plus for all of us in this exchange is that we all get to
learn from *documented* experiences like your oil consumption
improvement and Kurt's 1 mpg increase from simple fluid changes.
Then each person can make their own decision as to what they want to
do for them and their Bird.
In the end result, that's what the forum was started for, to exchange
ideas and facts to help us all keep our Birds running better and
longer. And these days, if that also translates to higher mpg, then
yippee!
Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "whynotam"
>
> Mike and all,
>
> I apologize for starting this huge
controversy but quite frankly I> think you are 100% correct in stating that oil technology has
> improved to the point where Detroit Diesels suggestions are way
> behind the times. I can only speak from personal experience as I
> don't have the oil industry back ground that Mike does but due to the
> fact that I have used synthetic lubricants for many years and have
> had very good success is the reason that I went with Amsoil's
> recommendation to use the 15W40 in our 1993 8V92. The engine oil
> consumption
> dropped from 1 quart every 200 miles to around 1 quart per 600 miles.
> With straight 40W Shell Rotella the oil was thin and black within the
> first 500 miles but with the Amsoil it was still clear after 3000
> miles same as in my Duramax Chevy after 7500 miles. Exhaust smoke was
> also considerably reduced on the 8V92. Use what you like but be
> assured there are definite advantages to the newer synthetic
> formulations. My genes also seem to still be working fine
>
> Best to all,
> Alvie Miller
> 1993 WLWB on Amsoil 15W40
> Arthur IL
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Alvie Miller - I rest my case!
> >
> > Pete, aren't you the same person that once said *ALL* DD engines
> > require straight 40W? I also remember you later said jokingly
> > something like "you are an old guy and all real DDs are 2-cycle" to
> you.
> >
> > I guess I'm pressing my luck by not having any lubrication related
> > failures,... you know, having used Amsoil since 1979 in general and
> in
> > my Birds since early 1997. Lots of other members are also using
> Amsoil
> > and other synthetics in their Birds.
> >
> > I know DD updated their 93K124 document on "ENGINE REQUIREMENTS â
> > LUBRICATING OIL, FUEL AND FILTERS" in 2005, but that update was
> mainly
> > to update to reflect the newest API CI-4 rating. That document is
> > almost entirely about the new series engines now and only mentions
> the
> > older 2-cycles by re-printing what has always been there. In their
> > defense, I can't imagine why DD would spend $$$$$$$$ certifying the
> > new breed of oils for an obsolete engine, but isn't it odd that they
> > certify and recommend multi-weight synthetics and dino-based oils
> for
> > the newer engines?
> >
> > Just for the record, all my DD manuals I have ever had always said
> you
> > can use 15W-40 in colder climates, but recommend to change back to
> > straight weight when temps rise to 'normal' again (above 40-50F? I
> > think it was). Lubricating oils have come a long way from when DD
> > started building the 2-cycles and was actively certifying oils for
> > them. Multi-weight dino-based oils, circa 60s and 70s, did in fact
> > break down incredibly fast when DD was actively building the 2-
> cycles
> > and actively certifying oils for them. Testing proved that the
> > straight weight petroleum oils were much better back then for shear
> > strength and thermal stability.
> >
> > Times change. The API standards have also evolved. The synthetics
> > outperform petroleum based oils by a wide margin today. The way I
> > understand it, the current generation of 15W-40 synthetics pass all
> > requirements for the old straight weight petroleum 40. (Note: Even
> > Mobil's Delvac 1 5W-40 is certified for the Series 60. And anything
> > with 5W in it makes me shudder.)
> >
> > I compare the specs listed by DD against the actual specs of the
> oil I
> > use. Since we are talking Amsoil here, they used to make a
> straight
> > 40-weight diesel oil. Demand dropped to nothing, API standards
> > changed, and now it is the 15W-40. I called and talked with their
> > engineers before I went to that. (As the old 2-cycles get retired,
> and
> > the market for the old straight weight oils shrinks further, fewer
> and
> > fewer companies will even supply a straight-weight 40.)
> >
> > If you look at thermal stability and high shear strength, critical
> > measurements for oil protection, the DD literature says: "In 15W-40
> > grade oils, a HT/HS viscosity below 3.7 centipoise (cP) indicates
> that
> > the oil will not perform as a 40 grade oil at engine operating
> > conditions." Amsoil's 15W-40 is measured at 4.4cP, well above DD
> > minimum requirements. Checking DD Table 3.2 from their oil spec for
> > 40W oil, the Amsoil 15W40 that Alvie mentioned meets all the
> Kinematic
> > Viscosity and the Viscosity Index requirements.
> >
> > Further, with the clean air acts and the decreases in sulfur
> > requirements it is becoming a lot harder for the petroleum based
> > fluids to meet the TBN (Total Base Number) requirements of the old
> > 2-cycles - which is listed at a range of 7-10 TBN from the DD 40W
> > chart. Now TBN is really a case where bigger is better. Amsoil's
> TBN
> > is 12.1 for their 15W-40. Total Base Number measures an oil's
> > alkalinity and ability to neutralize acid using lab testing (ASTM D
> > 2896 or D 4739) - acid production is generally considered bad for
> your
> > basic internal combustion engine.
> >
> > Finally, from the Amsoil web site:
> > AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is recommended
> > for use in diesel engines and other applications requiring any of
> the
> > listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines requiring API
> SL,
> > SJ, SH or ACEA A3.
> >
> > * API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
> > * ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7
> > * Global DHD-1
> > * JASO DH-1
> > * Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
> > * DDC Power Guard 93K214
> > * Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2
> >
> > Now I suppose they could be lying in print, but they probably have
> > lawyers to prevent them from doing that unless they actually can
> prove
> > that they can meet those specs.
> >
> > Anyway, didn't mean to bludgeon the subject. I just wanted to set
> the
> > record straight. Newer doesn't mean bad. Otherwise the API, SAE
> and
> > ASTM testing wouldn't keep evolving. In the old days, if we got
> 100k
> > miles out of a car engine without a re-build it was fantastic. Now
> > (with something at least resembling proper maintenance) people
> > regularly get upwards of 250k. I've never had a Suburban with under
> > 300k when I got rid of it, and they were all running good. Lots of
> > that is due strictly to lubrication advances.
> >
> > FWIW,
> >
> > Mike Bulriss - gene pool still functioning fine thank you
> > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"- 8V92 running that nasty old Amsoil
> > San Antonio, TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, PM7088@ wrote:
> > >
> > > The gene pool of home mechanics is purified by folks who: Use
> > Amsoil in 2 cycle diesels, install K&N air filters and/or propane
> > injectors and or sill "Chips" that increase their horsepower to the
> > point that pistons melt.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: brad barton <bbartonwx@>
> > > I always heard never to use anything but single-weight oil on my
> > 8V92..never multigrade unless in a pinch.
> > > FWIW
> > >
> > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: aamiller@
> > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:41:17 +0000
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in Nashville
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > Do you like Amsoil also? I use the 15w40 heavy duty Marine in the
> > > generator as well as the 8v92 and it is doing a great job. I
> would
> > > like to also switch the transmission fluid but haven't got it
> done
> > > yet. I also use Amsoil in the boys two BMW's, the wife's van, my
> 05
> > > Duramax pickup and in the tractor and mowers as well.
> > >
> > > Alvie Miller
> > > 93 WLWB
> > > Arthur IL
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kurt,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the update. I'm going to change mine over to the
> Amsoil
> > > > equivalent of the Transynd, since I can get that cheaper. 1MPG
> > > > increase is 20%!
> > > >
> > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minvan"
> > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > I call Prevost and they told me it is Transynd by Castrol.
> > > > > http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
> > > > >
> > > > > I also had a level 3 service which replaces all filters. In
> the
> > > > > Allison 6 speed I think there are 3 internal filters and of
> > > course
> > > > > all oil, fuel and air filters. They greased everything that
> could
> > > be
> > > > > grease and it also helped in the braking. I used to get a
> noise
> > > from
> > > > > the front brake that was called normal but it has now quit.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was told when I bought my coach that all the fluid &
> filters
> > > had
> > > > > been changed but I really don't know for sure. But it did not
> > > perform
> > > > > like it does now.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I do know is that I'm up to 5.5 to 6 MPG from 4.5 to 4.8
> > > > > according to the SilverLeaf VMSpc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Call it what you like, it's working for me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's something to chew on. I don't know anything about H2O
> > > helping
> > > > > your fuel mileage but I know Propane injection works. On a
> trip
> > > last
> > > > > summer I was at a Flying J in S.W. KY. At the RV island.
> > > > >
> > > > > A trucker in a red and white Peterbuilt pulled in behind me.
> I
> > > > > thought that to strange in itself, so I went back to his
> truck to
> > > > > tell him I was going to be there a while for fuel and
> propane.
> > > > >
> > > > > He told me he was after propane. I asked why and he said he
> had a
> > > > > truck with propane injection and the outfit he drove for was
> > > testing
> > > > > the system on 20 or so trucks. I asked if it was working and
> he
> > > > > professed almost 2.5 MPG up on average.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know the guy whom works on
> my
> > > Ford
> > > > > Powerstroke has a propane fire diesel pick up that with rip
> and
> > > > > snort, and he's getting better MPG than my truck gets
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid really made
> a
> > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super smooth
> > > shifting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HELLO! 1MPG from tranny fluid change!? Hey Kurt, feel free
> to
> > > > > > expound on the tranny fluid change. Synthetic I assume? I
> > > have
> > > > > been
> > > > > > putting that change off for a while since the dino tranny
> fluid
> > > was
> > > > > > fresh, but for 1MPG.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - in need of a quick cheap 1MPG
> > > upgrade
> > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well you can tell I've been off the web for a while. My
> > > computers
> > > > > > > were infected by a Trojan virus late in Jan. It took a
> while
> > > and
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > new laptop to fix the problems. I lost a lot of files and
> had
> > > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > new credit cards. S.O.B.'s, "and I don't mean, Some Other
> > > Bus" So
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > I repeat any request or post, or stuff you guys have
> already
> > > > > beaten
> > > > > > > to death, forgive me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike your right; I do recall seeing that coach listed for
> a
> > > while
> > > > > > > now. If it's truly a good deal it won't stick around for
> > > long.
> > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > go by Staley's if I have time just to look at her.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Paul, The Indulgence is safe at home and ready for this
> > > weekend's
> > > > > > > trip. I'm taking my daughter and 9 of her friends to
> > > Nashville
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > their Senior Prom. Should be Hoot!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bye the way my coach is not for sale, I like all Birds,
> but
> > > the
> > > > > PT-
> > > > > > > 42's are my favorite flavor, maybe a 43 would due but I
> would
> > > not
> > > > > go
> > > > > > > to a 40 footer of any mfg. Yes you're right I'm spoiled!
> All
> > > I
> > > > > need
> > > > > > > now is a Stacker Trailer that doesn't cost as much as my
> > > coach,
> > > > > so I
> > > > > > > can load it up full of toys and its party time!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had a full servicing done at Prevost Nashville a few
> months
> > > ago
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > it was well worth the money. All new filters & fluids,
> the
> > > new
> > > > > tranny
> > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid really made
> a
> > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super smooth
> > > shifting.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > Jake is even smoother and not as radical, the jerking
> upon
> > > > > activation
> > > > > > > has gone away. I'm a very happy camper. The brakes were
> > > checked
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > wear and a full chassis lube, headlights adjusted and new
> > > wiper
> > > > > > > blades. She is ready to roll.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Damn the price of fuel! Full speed ahead!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Being rather partial to green coaches, I tend to watch
> for
> > > > > them.
> > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > one looks really good in the pictures, but it has been
> on
> > > > > > > consignment
> > > > > > > > on Staley's lot for a *long* time. I distinctly
> remember
> > > the
> > > > > > > > (HEADLINER IN FRONT LOUNGE HAS DAMAGE AND NEEDS TO BE
> > > REPAIRED)
> > > > > > > > comment. Odd there are no pictures of the damage. As I
> > > recall,
> > > > > > > > someone went to see it and had posted a rather negative
> > > > > review. I
> > > > > > > > searched for that post but can't find it right now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If someone remembers that post or went to see the
> coach,
> > > please
> > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > us again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (lot's of greeeeen, baby)
> > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I ran across this coach will surfing this morning.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I like it but I don't know anything about it's
> history.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The link is listed below
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.staleycoach.com/48350.htm
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live
> > Messenger. Get started!
> > >
> >
>