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Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Gregg Kizer - 05-26-2008 10:24

GROUP Question:

What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular Type/ with high CCA rating")
are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would one go with when
replacing all three (3)battery units. It seems time has come to
replace out the three (3) engine batteries of which are presently a
Deep Cycle type (Wolverine Deep Cycle /brand of battery/ with
ThermOil Battery Technology) when aquiring this coach . My other
batteries (six Large Deep Cycle AGM) are AGM type for the "House
Service". I have a splite system battery set up for this '96 coach.

Does the various seating around of the coach while in storage (not
using coach, cold winter storage, etc...) warrant and best suit
the "Deep Cycle" type batteries vs the "Regular Type" for purpose of
starting my 60 Series Detroit engine??? This might be the reason for
the "Deep Cycle" type batteries on the "Engine" battery set-up that
is being used now.

Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@ $87.24 per battery
cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and replace them often
as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep Cycle" type
batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to the
various storage assignments of the coach and various charging issues
(cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger, etc.)?????

It seems that Blue Bird has the engine battery bank charging
controled by owner (me!!) to regulate the amount of engine battery
bank charge while sitting (shore power or generator power) and not
runing the engine (travel time) by design...

NOTE: With price of fuel, I am sure all our batteries will be more
in a directed storage stage of life of our coaches....Just a thougt!

WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements? I am sure
the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to the batteries to
keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment area vs. the
AGM type batteries as used in "House battery Service"...

Gregg Kizer
`96 WBSD `42
KB9BG (ham call)
New Castle, IN

Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Gregory OConnor - 05-26-2008 10:50

I dont know if having glass mat or other types of batteries in the
inverter storage bank should influence start battery choice when a
charger setting is used to boost both banks????
I would use regular high start amp commercial truck batteries. when
my 94 is stored for over a month I clip on a automatic trickle
charger I got at pepboys aprox $40 because the onboard chargers dont
maintain the start bank and I dont want to tie the two together at
the dash. I need to pick up a set myself. my start batteries are
wet cell /no maintenance but RobR clued me in on the hidden caps and
a hydrometer test proved uneven reading across the batteries. I
dont want to end up with electrical issues in the DDec caused by
batteries.

GregoryO'Connor

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg Kizer"
wrote:
>
> GROUP Question:
>
> What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular Type/ with high CCA
rating")
> are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would one go with
when
> replacing all three (3)battery units. It seems time has come to
> replace out the three (3) engine batteries of which are presently
a
> Deep Cycle type (Wolverine Deep Cycle /brand of battery/ with
> ThermOil Battery Technology) when aquiring this coach . My other
> batteries (six Large Deep Cycle AGM) are AGM type for the "House
> Service". I have a splite system battery set up for this '96
coach.
>
> Does the various seating around of the coach while in storage (not
> using coach, cold winter storage, etc...) warrant and best suit
> the "Deep Cycle" type batteries vs the "Regular Type" for purpose
of
> starting my 60 Series Detroit engine??? This might be the reason
for
> the "Deep Cycle" type batteries on the "Engine" battery set-up
that
> is being used now.
>
> Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@ $87.24 per
battery
> cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and replace them
often
> as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep Cycle" type
> batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to the
> various storage assignments of the coach and various charging
issues
> (cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger, etc.)?????
>
> It seems that Blue Bird has the engine battery bank charging
> controled by owner (me!!) to regulate the amount of engine battery
> bank charge while sitting (shore power or generator power) and not
> runing the engine (travel time) by design...
>
> NOTE: With price of fuel, I am sure all our batteries will be
more
> in a directed storage stage of life of our coaches....Just a
thougt!
>
> WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements? I am sure
> the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to the batteries to
> keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment area vs.
the
> AGM type batteries as used in "House battery Service"...
>
> Gregg Kizer
> `96 WBSD `42
> KB9BG (ham call)
> New Castle, IN
>

Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Pete Masterson - 05-26-2008 13:27

The engine batteries require maximum CCA when starting. The rest of the time, they don't provide much juice to the system. You should get regular type with high CCA rating batteries for the three type 31A 12v engine batteries. If you want the convenience of minimum maintenance, then AGM batteries would be preferred. If you don't mind doing regular battery water checks, then the Sam's CLub commercial type battery ought to work OK. At the moment, I can't tell you exactly what I have as the previous owner purchased them -- but they're Deka brand AGM, with 1000 CCA (more or less). They are not specifically a deep cycle battery. Deep cycle design reduces the relative CCA and what you need to start the Series 60 is plenty of CCA.
Personally, I prefer the easy (no) maintenance of AGM design batteries. I'd be inclined to get Sam's Club or Costco batteries for the reasonable price. Costco sells compatible batteries in both AGM and regular wet cells.
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
"aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 26, 2008, at 3:24 PM, Gregg Kizer wrote:

GROUP Question:
What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular Type/ with high CCA rating")
are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would one go with when 
replacing all three (3)battery units.  <snip>
Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@ $87.24 per battery 
cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and replace them often 
as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep Cycle" type 
batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to the 
various storage assignments of the coach and various charging issues 
(cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger, etc.)?????
<Snip>
WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements?  I am sure 
the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to the batteries to 
keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment area vs. the 
AGM type batteries as used in "House battery Service"... 
Gregg Kizer
`96 WBSD `42
KB9BG (ham call)
New Castle, IN


Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - KB9BG - 05-26-2008 13:51

Thanks Greg for the reply, thus
the reason for the poll of members for I am very concern about the DDec
electrical issues also. My AGM batteries are Deka SeaMate & RV AGM brand
Absorbed Glass Mat Technology Deep Cycle with 198AH @ 20HR and 1110 CCA and
mention on the side of the batteries (6) that they are:

1.
Leak proof

2.
Superior Cycle Life

3.
Completely Maintenance
Free

4.
Heavy-Duty Power for
Trolling Motors, House Power and Accessory Loads

5.
Good for Engine
Starting

The above may be all advertising
issues to sell this type of battery!!!!!!!…

Now we have the issue of this
battery doing the 1110 CCA for purpose of starting the engine vs. three (3)
batteries hook together (I guess we can always use the relay switch to throw
all other House Batteries in needed situations…..).

With a split battery system the
House Batteries charge is set via my Xantrex control panels (2 panels for both
Xantrex inverter/charger units) when hook to shore power at the lowest (“Set
Incoming Breaker AMP”Wink setting (50,30,20,15,5 AMP choices) as to not hit
the charge cycle hard for a long period of time.

Wondering cost and convenient if One
(1) of these big boys battery would be better than the three Commercial
starting batteries in the long run? I’ve measured the tray for the
three present starting batteries and NO PROBLEM on fitting one (1) of
these battery in the area tray that now holds the three (3) starting batteries
now. I guess one would have to look at the total of three (3) vs. One (1)
battery as a thought. I agree that the float charge on the starting
batteries or battery if it would be the preferred route to protect the
investment of “DDec electrical issues” as you mentioned…

The Sam Club Commercial battery
was 950CCA as I remember, but I need to do the math with having three (3) vs.
one of the Deka SeaMate AGM battery @ 1110 CCA rating. The trouble with
three (3), is if one is bad it will affect all when hooked together vs. just
one (1) battery doing the job of three (3). I probably will have to check
in to the actual weight of each selection also (tray should hold it).

Let me know what you come up in thought
if you are in the market of replacing your “Engine Batteries” soon,
for there is the issue of these coaches doing more setting than rolling till
this fuel issue settles, in my personal thought.

Regards

Gregg W. Kizer İmage

From:
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Gregory OConnor

Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:51 PM

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Starting Batteries (Engine only!)



I dont know if having glass mat or other types
of batteries in the

inverter storage bank should influence start battery choice when a

charger setting is used to boost both banks????

I would use regular high start amp commercial truck batteries. when

my 94 is stored for over a month I clip on a automatic trickle

charger I got at pepboys aprox $40 because the onboard chargers dont

maintain the start bank and I dont want to tie the two together at

the dash. I need to pick up a set myself. my start batteries are

wet cell /no maintenance but RobR clued me in on the hidden caps and

a hydrometer test proved uneven reading across the batteries. I

dont want to end up with electrical issues in the DDec caused by

batteries.



GregoryO'Connor



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
"Gregg Kizer"

wrote:

>

> GROUP Question:

>

> What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular Type/ with high
CCA

rating")

> are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would one go with

when

> replacing all three (3)battery units. It seems time has come to

> replace out the three (3) engine batteries of which are presently

a

> Deep Cycle type (Wolverine Deep Cycle /brand of battery/ with

> ThermOil Battery Technology) when aquiring this coach . My other

> batteries (six Large Deep Cycle AGM) are AGM type for the "House

> Service". I have a splite system battery set up for this '96

coach.

>

> Does the various seating around of the coach while in storage (not

> using coach, cold winter storage, etc...) warrant and best suit

> the "Deep Cycle" type batteries vs the "Regular Type"
for purpose

of

> starting my 60 Series Detroit engine??? This might be the reason

for

> the "Deep Cycle" type batteries on the "Engine"
battery set-up

that

> is being used now.

>

> Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@ $87.24 per

battery

> cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and replace them

often

> as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep Cycle"
type

> batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to the

> various storage assignments of the coach and various charging

issues

> (cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger, etc.)?????

>

> It seems that Blue Bird has the engine battery bank charging

> controled by owner (me!!) to regulate the amount of engine battery

> bank charge while sitting (shore power or generator power) and not

> runing the engine (travel time) by design...

>

> NOTE: With price of fuel, I am sure all our batteries will be

more

> in a directed storage stage of life of our coaches....Just a

thougt!

>

> WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements? I am sure

> the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to the batteries
to

> keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment area vs.

the

> AGM type batteries as used in "House battery Service"...

>

> Gregg Kizer

> `96 WBSD `42

> KB9BG (ham call)

> New Castle, IN

>


Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - KB9BG - 05-26-2008 14:00

Pete:

Thanks for the reply and you might
view my reply to Greg on this issue…

I mentioned in my reply all the
findings on the Deka SeaMate & RV batteries that I have for the “House”
use. They have a part number of 8A4DM / 1420MCA as listed on each battery
with a 1110 CCA and 198AH @ 20HR. They list on the side of the battery
that it is “Good for Engine Starting” and I agree with you of not
having to mess with the watch of watering the batteries, etc. this would be the
preferred route as an end user….Thus the reason for my poll of GROUP thoughts…..

I might have to do more research
on the CCA issues, etc. on batteries in this application, but I was thinking in
regards to the coach setting with storage, high fuel issues for all of us.

Regards

Gregg W. Kizer İmage

From:
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Pete Masterson

Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 9:28 PM

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Starting Batteries (Engine only!)



The engine batteries require maximum CCA when starting. The rest of the
time, they don't provide much juice to the system. You should get regular type
with high CCA rating batteries for the three type 31A 12v engine batteries. If
you want the convenience of minimum maintenance, then AGM batteries would be
preferred. If you don't mind doing regular battery water checks, then the Sam's
CLub commercial type battery ought to work OK. At the moment, I can't tell you
exactly what I have as the previous owner purchased them -- but they're Deka
brand AGM, with 1000 CCA (more or less). They are not specifically a deep cycle
battery. Deep cycle design reduces the relative CCA and what you need to start
the Series 60 is plenty of CCA.

Personally, I prefer the easy (no) maintenance of AGM design
batteries. I'd be inclined to get Sam's Club or Costco batteries for the
reasonable price. Costco sells compatible batteries in both AGM and regular wet
cells.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"





On May 26, 2008, at 3:24 PM, Gregg Kizer wrote:




GROUP Question:

What batteries ("Deep Cycle" or "Regular
Type/ with high CCA rating")

are best for "Start Engine/ assignment duty" would
one go with when

replacing all three (3)battery units.<snip>

Would the Sam's Club "COMMERCIAL" type battery (@
$87.24 per battery

cost)= "31A 12V @ 950 CCA" work just as well and
replace them often

as needed or would one invest into the "AGM type Deep
Cycle" type

batteries for the over all perforamce and longivity due to
the

various storage assignments of the coach and various
charging issues

(cyles, engine charging, shore power/inverter-charger,
etc.)?????

<Snip>

WHAT WOULD YOU GO WITH when needing replacements? I am sure

the "ThermOil Battery Technology" was applied to
the batteries to

keep the corrision issue down in the battery compartment
area vs. the

AGM type batteries as used in "House battery
Service"...

Gregg Kizer

`96 WBSD `42

KB9BG (ham call)

New Castle, IN


Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Pete Masterson - 05-26-2008 14:13

The three type 31 batteries have about 3000 CCA (at 0 degrees F) available -- about 1000 CCA each. The large house batteries (in my coach they're type 4D) have about 1100 CCA (0° F) -- so you'd still need 3 of them and there's no room. The house batteries are designed for slow, long period discharge. The engine batteries are designed for immediate quick supply of amps to drive the starter motor. They don't produce that amperage for very long, but they dump out a lot of power in a short time. That's the basis of the design differences between deep discharge and regular engine starting batteries.
Aside from the sometimes problems that 3 batteries cause, you're better off to stick with the three type 31s as originally designed.
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
"aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 26, 2008, at 6:51 PM, KB9BG wrote:

Thanks Greg for the reply, thus the reason for the poll of members for I am very concern about the DDec electrical issues also.  My AGM batteries are Deka SeaMate & RV AGM brand Absorbed Glass Mat Technology Deep Cycle with 198AH @ 20HR and 1110 CCA and mention on the side of the batteries (6) that they are:
 
1.      Leak proof
2.      Superior Cycle Life
3.      Completely Maintenance Free
4.      Heavy-Duty Power for Trolling Motors, House Power and Accessory Loads
5.      Good for Engine Starting
The above may be all advertising issues to sell this type of battery!!!!!!!…
 
Now we have the issue of this battery doing the 1110 CCA for purpose of starting the engine vs. three (3) batteries hook together (I guess we can always use the relay switch to throw all other House Batteries in needed situations…..).
 <snip>


Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Pete Masterson - 05-26-2008 14:22

Gregg,
I think another answer may have crossed this one. The previous owner installed Deka brand type 31 AGMs for the engine batteries and type 4D (8A4DM is a type 4D) Deka AGMs (probably the same model you list) for the house batteries. Due to a probably too-deep discharge while in various dealer's hands, my house batteries were not holding a reasonable charge. I replaced them with a different brand (best price) but otherwise similar type 4D AGM batteries and now I have no problem with the house batteries.
The original type 31s are still in use and seem to be doing the job. Once or twice, in the winter in Denver, I had to use the switch to join the house and engine batteries to get the DD to start up. (I've since learned to use the engine pre-heat more effectively.)
The key is the total CCA needed. 3 type 31 provide approximately 1000 CCA _each_ so 3 batteries together deliver a total of 3000 CCA. The Type 4D batteries offer about 1100 CCA (each) so it would still take 3 batteries to replace the 3 type 31s. And that's not practical as they won't fit. 
I think the AGMs are probably likely to handle the long sitting period better than regular wet cells, but wet cells, if properly maintained will last a very long time as well.
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
"aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 26, 2008, at 7:00 PM, KB9BG wrote:

Pete:
 
Thanks for the reply and you might view my reply to Greg on this issue…
 
I mentioned in my reply all the findings on the Deka SeaMate & RV batteries that I have for the “House” use.  They have a part number of 8A4DM / 1420MCA as listed on each battery with a 1110 CCA and 198AH @ 20HR.  They list on the side of the battery that it is “Good for Engine Starting” and I agree with you of not having to mess with the watch of watering the batteries, etc. this would be the preferred route as an end user….Thus the reason for my poll of GROUP thoughts…..
 
I might have to do more research on the CCA issues, etc. on batteries in this application, but I was thinking in regards to the coach setting with storage, high fuel issues for all of us.
 


Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - KB9BG - 05-26-2008 14:28

Pete:

Thanks for the reply and I feel
you got this all worked out! What brand did you end up going with on your
house batteries and how old are your Deka brand type 31 AGMs for the engine
batteries???? I am think the not having to water the batteries program might
be the route to take and go with the original design as the factory set up….

Regards

Gregg W. Kizer İmage

From:
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Pete Masterson

Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 10:22 PM

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Starting Batteries (Engine only!)



Gregg,

I think another answer may have crossed this one. The
previous owner installed Deka brand type 31 AGMs for the engine batteries and
type 4D (8A4DM is a type 4D) Deka AGMs (probably the same model you list) for
the house batteries. Due to a probably too-deep discharge while in various
dealer's hands, my house batteries were not holding a reasonable charge. I
replaced them with a different brand (best price) but otherwise similar type 4D
AGM batteries and now I have no problem with the house batteries.

The original type 31s are still in use and seem to be doing
the job. Once or twice, in the winter in Denver, I had to use the switch to
join the house and engine batteries to get the DD to start up. (I've since
learned to use the engine pre-heat more effectively.)

The key is the total CCA needed. 3 type 31 provide
approximately 1000 CCA _each_ so 3 batteries together deliver a total of 3000
CCA. The Type 4D batteries offer about 1100 CCA (each) so it would still take 3
batteries to replace the 3 type 31s. And that's not practical as they won't
fit.

I think the AGMs are probably likely to handle the long
sitting period better than regular wet cells, but wet cells, if properly
maintained will last a very long time as well.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"





On May 26, 2008, at 7:00 PM, KB9BG wrote:




Pete:

Thanks for the reply and you might
view my reply to Greg on this issue…

I mentioned in my reply all the
findings on the Deka SeaMate & RV batteries that I have for the “House”
use. They have a part number of 8A4DM / 1420MCA as listed on each battery
with a 1110 CCA and 198AH @ 20HR. They list on the side of the battery
that it is “Good for Engine Starting” and I agree with you of not having to
mess with the watch of watering the batteries, etc. this would be the preferred
route as an end user….Thus the reason for my poll of GROUP thoughts…..

I might have to do more research
on the CCA issues, etc. on batteries in this application, but I was thinking in
regards to the coach setting with storage, high fuel issues for all of us.


Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - Pete Masterson - 05-26-2008 14:48

The Deka type 31s are about 4+ years old, now. 
My house batteries are now about 2 years old. They're Fullriver brand, part number FR4D2. I ordered them from DC Battery Specialists. I believe they were shipped from Florida -- but their delivered cost was less than the quotes I got from some other battery dealers.
<http://www.dcbattery.com/>
The downside of the Fullriver battery is that the type 4D model is _slightly_ larger in physical size than the standard type 4D. I had to cut the rear of the battery tray and weld a piece of angle iron to make the battery trays about 1-1/2 inches deeper to hold the batteries. The two that go in the engine compartment just barely fit, but one of the hold-downs had to be modified to work (as did all the top brackets of the hold-downs). Also, I had to modify one of my battery cables, though the others all fit ok.
So, in the end, they proved to be more trouble than the competitive price suggested. Nonetheless, I'm happy with them, but had I known about the slight size difference, I wouldn't have gotten them.
I believe these batteries are most commonly used in home solar installations, so the physical size isn't as critical.
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
"aeonix1@mac.com"
On May 26, 2008, at 7:28 PM, KB9BG wrote:

Pete:
 
Thanks for the reply and I feel you got this all worked out!  What brand did you end up going with on your house batteries and how old are your Deka brand type 31 AGMs for the engine batteries????  I am think the not having to water the batteries program might be the route to take and go with the original design as the factory set up….
 
Regards
Gregg W. Kizer  
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com ["WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"] On Behalf Of Pete Masterson
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 10:22 PM
To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Starting Batteries (Engine only!)
 

Gregg,

 
I think another answer may have crossed this one. The previous owner installed Deka brand type 31 AGMs for the engine batteries and type 4D (8A4DM is a type 4D) Deka AGMs (probably the same model you list) for the house batteries. Due to a probably too-deep discharge while in various dealer's hands, my house batteries were not holding a reasonable charge. I replaced them with a different brand (best price) but otherwise similar type 4D AGM batteries and now I have no problem with the house batteries.
 
The original type 31s are still in use and seem to be doing the job. Once or twice, in the winter in Denver, I had to use the switch to join the house and engine batteries to get the DD to start up. (I've since learned to use the engine pre-heat more effectively.)
 
The key is the total CCA needed. 3 type 31 provide approximately 1000 CCA _each_ so 3 batteries together deliver a total of 3000 CCA. The Type 4D batteries offer about 1100 CCA (each) so it would still take 3 batteries to replace the 3 type 31s. And that's not practical as they won't fit. 
 
I think the AGMs are probably likely to handle the long sitting period better than regular wet cells, but wet cells, if properly maintained will last a very long time as well.
 
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
"aeonix1@mac.com"
 


 
On May 26, 2008, at 7:00 PM, KB9BG wrote:

Pete:
 
Thanks for the reply and you might view my reply to Greg on this issue…
 
I mentioned in my reply all the findings on the Deka SeaMate & RV batteries that I have for the “House” use.  They have a part number of 8A4DM / 1420MCA as listed on each battery with a 1110 CCA and 198AH @ 20HR.  They list on the side of the battery that it is “Good for Engine Starting” and I agree with you of not having to mess with the watch of watering the batteries, etc. this would be the preferred route as an end user….Thus the reason for my poll of GROUP thoughts…..
 
I might have to do more research on the CCA issues, etc. on batteries in this application, but I was thinking in regards to the coach setting with storage, high fuel issues for all of us.
 


Starting Batteries (Engine only!) - KB9BG - 05-26-2008 15:03

Pete:

Thanks for the information and
update…

Regards

Gregg W. Kizer İmage

’96 WBSD 42’

New Castle, IN

KB9BG (ham call)

From:
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Pete Masterson

Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 10:49 PM

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Starting Batteries (Engine only!)



The Deka type 31s are about 4+ years old, now.

My house batteries are now about 2 years old. They're
Fullriver brand, part number FR4D2. I ordered them from DC Battery Specialists.
I believe they were shipped from Florida -- but their delivered cost was less
than the quotes I got from some other battery dealers.

<http://www.dcbattery.com/>

The downside of the Fullriver battery is that the type 4D
model is _slightly_ larger in physical size than the standard type 4D. I had to
cut the rear of the battery tray and weld a piece of angle iron to make the
battery trays about 1-1/2 inches deeper to hold the batteries. The two that go
in the engine compartment just barely fit, but one of the hold-downs had to be
modified to work (as did all the top brackets of the hold-downs). Also, I had
to modify one of my battery cables, though the others all fit ok.

So, in the end, they proved to be more trouble than the
competitive price suggested. Nonetheless, I'm happy with them, but had I known
about the slight size difference, I wouldn't have gotten them.

I believe these batteries are most commonly used in home
solar installations, so the physical size isn't as critical.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"





On May 26, 2008, at 7:28 PM, KB9BG wrote:




Pete:

Thanks for the reply and I feel
you got this all worked out! What brand did you end up going with on your
house batteries and how old are your Deka brand type 31 AGMs for the engine
batteries???? I am think the not having to water the batteries program might
be the route to take and go with the original design as the factory set up….

Regards

Gregg W. Kizer

From:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
["WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"]On Behalf OfPete Masterson

Sent:Monday, May 26, 2008
10:22 PM

To:"WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"

Subject:Re:
[WanderlodgeForum] Starting Batteries (Engine only!)



Gregg,

I think another answer may have
crossed this one. The previous owner installed Deka brand type 31 AGMs for the
engine batteries and type 4D (8A4DM is a type 4D) Deka AGMs (probably the same
model you list) for the house batteries. Due to a probably too-deep discharge
while in various dealer's hands, my house batteries were not holding a
reasonable charge. I replaced them with a different brand (best price) but
otherwise similar type 4D AGM batteries and now I have no problem with the
house batteries.

The original type 31s are still in
use and seem to be doing the job. Once or twice, in the winter in Denver, I had
to use the switch to join the house and engine batteries to get the DD to start
up. (I've since learned to use the engine pre-heat more effectively.)

The key is the total CCA needed. 3
type 31 provide approximately 1000 CCA _each_ so 3 batteries together deliver a
total of 3000 CCA. The Type 4D batteries offer about 1100 CCA (each) so it
would still take 3 batteries to replace the 3 type 31s. And that's not
practical as they won't fit.

I think the AGMs are probably
likely to handle the long sitting period better than regular wet cells, but wet
cells, if properly maintained will last a very long time as well.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"







On May 26, 2008, at 7:00 PM, KB9BG
wrote:







Pete:

Thanks for the reply and you might
view my reply to Greg on this issue…

I mentioned in my reply all the
findings on the Deka SeaMate & RV batteries that I have for the “House”
use. They have a part number of 8A4DM / 1420MCA as listed on each battery
with a 1110 CCA and 198AH @ 20HR. They list on the side of the battery
that it is “Good for Engine Starting” and I agree with you of not having to
mess with the watch of watering the batteries, etc. this would be the preferred
route as an end user….Thus the reason for my poll of GROUP thoughts…..

I might have to do more research
on the CCA issues, etc. on batteries in this application, but I was thinking in
regards to the coach setting with storage, high fuel issues for all of us.