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+--- Thread: Should we even be looking at Old Birds? (/showthread.php?tid=6902)
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - campingleroy - 06-23-2008 16:47
My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a mid 80s
FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one with a
double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our current
coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on that.
But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really well, if
there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on what I
know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a mechanic do
every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical problems
concern me much less than mechanical ones.
My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is the
majority of the work something that an average person could do given
patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in over my
head.
I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit before
purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself into.
If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations on who.
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - bubblerboy64 - 06-24-2008 01:19
Leroy, I've had mine one year to date. The short answer is "go for
it". The nice thing is you can decide how much you want to do. It's
very much like vintage cars. You can buy one which needs a frame up
restoration or you that just needs cleaned up a little. You decide. I
wanted a vintage "Bird" and I wanted a project. Sounds like you are
cut from the same cloth. It's a buyers market and you can get into
this without selling the farm. The FC's are less complex then the
PT's and less money. The PT's are better for people who are traveling
long distances and or spending long periods of time in them. I've
done more on my coach then I thought I would be able to do. I have
jokingly said I am not as smart as a fifth grader and often do things
the hard way but for the most part I've been able to work through my
issues (with the help of this forum). I have and will farm out the
difficult stuff. The positive is that when you are finished you have
something of quality. So I say jump into the pool with the rest of
us. The water is fine. You'll meet some real nice people trust me.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
> including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a mid
80s
> FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one with
a
> double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
>
> I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our
current
> coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on
that.
> But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
> mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really well,
if
> there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on what I
> know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a mechanic
do
> every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical
problems
> concern me much less than mechanical ones.
>
> My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is the
> majority of the work something that an average person could do
given
> patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in over my
> head.
>
> I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit before
> purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself
into.
> If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations on
who.
>
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - Ryan Wright - 06-24-2008 04:39
> I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our current
> coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on that.
You'll be fine. A lot of the work on an old coach is fixing house
systems. If you can do basic household repairs (and it looks like you
can), you'll be able to maintain these. Don't be tempted to cut
corners and buy a cheap coach. Get something that has been well
maintained and doesn't need any repairs at the time of purchase. It
will cost you a bit more but will save you a lot of headaches later.
In my experience, a vehicle that has a lot of little things wrong has
been generally neglected and will have more ongoing maintenance
issues. If an owner can't be bothered to fix the musical horn, how do
I know he could be bothered to change fluids & filters, or to do
something about that slight over-temp issue?
> But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
> mechanically inclined though.
Yeah - you'll be fine. If you consider yourself mechanically inclined,
don't even worry about it. If you can and are willing to change oil
and fuel filters, the rest will come naturally. Always have some money
set aside for the inevitable - you ARE going to have things break that
you can't or don't want to fix. I've spent a couple grand having my
transmission looked at, several hundred dollars having my alternator
replaced, and another grand having my compressor replaced. I could
have taken care of the alternator and compressor myself, but really
didn't feel like doing it.
> My question is, should I steer away from these old birds?
Not at all! The fact is, you can buy a brand new vehicle and things
are still going to fail. Sure, you'll have a warranty for a brief
period, but that will soon go away and you'll be in the same boat. The
old birds are built like tanks. This is nothing like owning an old
version of any other coach. These are built to last and if you buy a
coach that doesn't have anything wrong with it, I don't believe your
maintenance will be any more intense whether you buy an 80's or a 90's
or a 2000's, of this or any other brand.
Maintenance is maintenance, you'll always have it. It's been quite
tolerable on my coach.
> Is the majority of the work something that an average person could do given
> patience and research/reading?
I think it is. If you're currently doing basic repairs on your house,
changing your car's own oil, filters, belts, etc, and if you can
generally troubleshoot basic automotive problems, then you'll be just
fine and I say, go for it!
-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - Wilhelmus Schreurs - 06-24-2008 05:05
Hi.
Well, I purchased a FC, and although I aminclined to do most of my own work, I have found this forum as well as a few other forums of great help.
I also have had very good success in taking it to shops which allow me to work with the mechanic, and to get better knowledge of the coach.
In addition to this forum, there are two other forums to get help from:
My opinion, these machines drive like no other M/H, and when camping here in the north, I know the bears are going to have a hard time getting at me LOL.
Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"Terrace, B.C. Canada
----- Original Message ----
From: campingleroy
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 9:47:47 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Should we even be looking at Old Birds?
My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a mid 80s
FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one with a
double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our current
coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on that.
But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really well, if
there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on what I
know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a mechanic do
every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical problems
concern me much less than mechanical ones.
My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is the
majority of the work something that an average person could do given
patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in over my
head.
I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit before
purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself into.
If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations on who.
From: campingleroy
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 9:47:47 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Should we even be looking at Old Birds?
My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a mid 80s
FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one with a
double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our current
coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on that.
But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really well, if
there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on what I
know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a mechanic do
every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical problems
concern me much less than mechanical ones.
My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is the
majority of the work something that an average person could do given
patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in over my
head.
I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit before
purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself into.
If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations on who.
[url=http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com/]Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now!
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - Henry Jay Hannigan - 06-24-2008 05:10
LEROY:
I've had three birds; 77FC33...80FC31 and current 90SP36.....
the first two are "bulletproof" and the SP is luxurious.
Recommend u do your homework on what was added to birds each model
year. For example 77 to early 80 was leaf springs and no airbags
with the 210NA cat 3208. later 80 models had added weight, air bags,
levelers, bath mod's 3208 mod's etc.
If I was "starting over" I would seek an early 1980FC31 without
airbags and levelers in good nic.
hopefully the engine has been redone and the tranny is in good shape
with no plate damage and the interior has been redone and it has been
stored inside.
How's that for a dreamlist??
LOL
Regards,
Hank
90SP36
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright"
>
> > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our
current
> > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on
that.
>
> You'll be fine. A lot of the work on an old coach is fixing house
> systems. If you can do basic household repairs (and it looks like
you
> can), you'll be able to maintain these. Don't be tempted to cut
> corners and buy a cheap coach. Get something that has been well
> maintained and doesn't need any repairs at the time of purchase. It
> will cost you a bit more but will save you a lot of headaches later.
> In my experience, a vehicle that has a lot of little things wrong
has
> been generally neglected and will have more ongoing maintenance
> issues. If an owner can't be bothered to fix the musical horn, how
do
> I know he could be bothered to change fluids & filters, or to do
> something about that slight over-temp issue?
>
> > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
> > mechanically inclined though.
>
> Yeah - you'll be fine. If you consider yourself mechanically
inclined,
> don't even worry about it. If you can and are willing to change oil
> and fuel filters, the rest will come naturally. Always have some
money
> set aside for the inevitable - you ARE going to have things break
that
> you can't or don't want to fix. I've spent a couple grand having my
> transmission looked at, several hundred dollars having my alternator
> replaced, and another grand having my compressor replaced. I could
> have taken care of the alternator and compressor myself, but really
> didn't feel like doing it.
>
> > My question is, should I steer away from these old birds?
>
> Not at all! The fact is, you can buy a brand new vehicle and things
> are still going to fail. Sure, you'll have a warranty for a brief
> period, but that will soon go away and you'll be in the same boat.
The
> old birds are built like tanks. This is nothing like owning an old
> version of any other coach. These are built to last and if you buy a
> coach that doesn't have anything wrong with it, I don't believe your
> maintenance will be any more intense whether you buy an 80's or a
90's
> or a 2000's, of this or any other brand.
>
> Maintenance is maintenance, you'll always have it. It's been quite
> tolerable on my coach.
>
> > Is the majority of the work something that an average person
could do given
> > patience and research/reading?
>
> I think it is. If you're currently doing basic repairs on your
house,
> changing your car's own oil, filters, belts, etc, and if you can
> generally troubleshoot basic automotive problems, then you'll be
just
> fine and I say, go for it!
>
> -Ryan
> '86 PT-40 8V92
>
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - michaelhohnstein - 06-24-2008 05:35
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying selling
and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real well and
I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even a Newell.
That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who wish to
get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are much easier
to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing radiator.
86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not good.
Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a very
welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF trans is a
great piece and features OD.
My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine cover,
charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison is backed
by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake retarder.
I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line of work
I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the newer
version, and it's all done for you.
MH
>
> My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
> including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a mid
80s
> FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one
with a
> double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
>
> I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our
current
> coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on
that.
> But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
> mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really
well, if
> there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on what
I
> know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a mechanic
do
> every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical
problems
> concern me much less than mechanical ones.
>
> My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is the
> majority of the work something that an average person could do
given
> patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in over
my
> head.
>
> I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit before
> purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself
into.
> If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations on
who.
>
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - Henry Jay Hannigan - 06-24-2008 05:48
MIKE:
All the things u say are true AND I have all of that in my 90SP
especially the GREAT ZF transmission...the largest transmission
mmaker in europe..they make trannys for BMW's and Mercedes etc.
As for my START recommendation at a low budget entry price, The
80FC31 is NOT underpowered and the valve adjust is not something the
wife can do and I would hope the Swingout radiator mod has been
made...maybe Leroy can find a 1980FC31 with a swingout radiator for
less than 20 grand verses finding a 1987 of your recommedation for
probably over 40 grand.....WE do not know his budget from what he
wrote. LOL hope all is well in texas.....Naty & I will get to a
Texas rally when Deisel drops below
$3............."Dream...Dream..Dream!"
Regards,
Hank
90SP36
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
>
>
> I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying selling
> and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real well
and
> I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even a Newell.
> That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who wish to
> get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are much easier
> to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing radiator.
> 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not good.
> Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a very
> welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF trans is
a
> great piece and features OD.
> My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine cover,
> charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison is
backed
> by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake retarder.
> I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line of work
> I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the newer
> version, and it's all done for you.
> MH
>
>
> >
> > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
> > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a mid
> 80s
> > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one
> with a
> > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> >
> > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our
> current
> > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on
> that.
> > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
> > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really
> well, if
> > there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on what
> I
> > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a mechanic
> do
> > every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical
> problems
> > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> >
> > My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is the
> > majority of the work something that an average person could do
> given
> > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in over
> my
> > head.
> >
> > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit before
> > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself
> into.
> > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations
on
> who.
> >
>
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - Jon - 06-24-2008 05:53
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
>
>
> I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying selling
> and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real well
and
> I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even a Newell.
> That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who wish to
> get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are much easier
> to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing radiator.
> 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not good.
> Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a very
> welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF trans is
a
> great piece and features OD.
> My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine cover,
> charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison is
backed
> by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake retarder.
> I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line of work
> I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the newer
> version, and it's all done for you.
> MH
>
>
> >
> > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
> > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a mid
> 80s
> > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one
> with a
> > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> >
> > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our
> current
> > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on
> that.
> > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
> > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really
> well, if
> > there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on what
> I
> > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a mechanic
> do
> > every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical
> problems
> > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> >
> > My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is the
> > majority of the work something that an average person could do
> given
> > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in over
> my
> > head.
> >
> > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit before
> > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself
> into.
> > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations
on
> who.
I would just say this and that is buy from a person who loves his old
coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has been done.
As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000 miles and my
coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my old coach
gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know they were made
for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> >
>
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - bubblerboy64 - 06-24-2008 07:04
Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target. You
certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the later FC's
are considerably improved and being newer should in theory at least
be in better condition. That being said there is always the debate as
to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers a PT. I
have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my thoughts
are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to it a little
(or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to decide. I
was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree that you
should invest in some travel and time to investigate a number of
these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference and how
you are going to use the coach are the critical things to consider.
I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of long runs
I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for more then
two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to match it to
your use as well as your pocket book.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> >
> >
> > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying selling
> > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real well
> and
> > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even a
Newell.
> > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who wish
to
> > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are much
easier
> > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing
radiator.
> > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not good.
> > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a very
> > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF trans
is
> a
> > great piece and features OD.
> > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine cover,
> > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison is
> backed
> > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake retarder.
> > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line of work
> > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the newer
> > version, and it's all done for you.
> > MH
> >
> >
> > >
> > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
> > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a
mid
> > 80s
> > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one
> > with a
> > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > >
> > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our
> > current
> > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over
on
> > that.
> > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be
very
> > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really
> > well, if
> > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on
what
> > I
> > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a
mechanic
> > do
> > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical
> > problems
> > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > >
> > > My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is
the
> > > majority of the work something that an average person could do
> > given
> > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in
over
> > my
> > > head.
> > >
> > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit
before
> > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself
> > into.
> > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations
> on
> > who.
>
>
> I would just say this and that is buy from a person who loves his
old
> coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has been
done.
> As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000 miles and
my
> coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my old coach
> gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know they were
made
> for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > >
> >
>
Should we even be looking at Old Birds? - Michael - 06-24-2008 08:29
I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63 Bluebird
conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose this bus
to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator, etc.. I
did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a trailer
full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with ground
clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36 from
Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush, fancy, and
strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for me. So old
or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-for-buck"
kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
Just another 2 cents...
Michael
78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
Mesa, Az
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
wrote:
>
> Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target. You
> certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the later FC's
> are considerably improved and being newer should in theory at least
> be in better condition. That being said there is always the debate
as
> to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers a PT. I
> have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my thoughts
> are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to it a
little
> (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to decide.
I
> was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree that
you
> should invest in some travel and time to investigate a number of
> these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference and how
> you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
consider.
> I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of long
runs
> I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for more then
> two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to match it to
> your use as well as your pocket book.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > >
> > >
> > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying
selling
> > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real
well
> > and
> > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even a
> Newell.
> > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who
wish
> to
> > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are much
> easier
> > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing
> radiator.
> > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not
good.
> > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a very
> > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF trans
> is
> > a
> > > great piece and features OD.
> > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine cover,
> > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison is
> > backed
> > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake retarder.
> > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line of
work
> > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the
newer
> > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > MH
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage
birds,
> > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a
> mid
> > > 80s
> > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The
one
> > > with a
> > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > >
> > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our
> > > current
> > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over
> on
> > > that.
> > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be
> very
> > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really
> > > well, if
> > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on
> what
> > > I
> > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a
> mechanic
> > > do
> > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical
> > > problems
> > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > >
> > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is
> the
> > > > majority of the work something that an average person could
do
> > > given
> > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in
> over
> > > my
> > > > head.
> > > >
> > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit
> before
> > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting
myself
> > > into.
> > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
recommendations
> > on
> > > who.
> >
> >
> > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who loves his
> old
> > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has been
> done.
> > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000 miles and
> my
> > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my old
coach
> > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know they were
> made
> > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > >
> > >
> >
>