Why the rebuilds?

[Chuck Wheeler]

I do not know the real long term effects of ULSD. My local CAT dealer says
that there should be no problem if the engine is in good shape. I'm waiting
to see. I remember all the talk of failure when the unleaded fuels were
introduced in the 1970s. I was running a 66 ford pickup pretty hard pulling
a 4 horse trailer between Tehachapi and Santa Anita and was concerned. That
truck finally broke a timing chain in 1989 with 346,000+ miles on it. It
went the last 266,000 miles on unleaded.

I have 200,000+ miles on this 3208 and it is using some oil so a rebuild in
probably in the future with or without ULSD. The last 33,000 miles have
been with ULSD and so far so good. Time will tell....

- Chuck Wheeler-
FC 31SB Fort Worth TX


_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 5:41 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?



Very good point Chuck. That perhaps explains at least partly why
diesels work well in the vehicles in which they work well. Over the
road trucks and buses and taxi cabs to mention a few. I have heard
some mention that there are down sides to the low sulpher fuels.
Perhaps you or others might speak to that subject. I really don't
know a thing about diesel fuel. Might be time to learn a bit on that
subject since the credit card shows I am buying my share. Aw the ole
first of the month bills.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC

>
> One thing that leads to the shorter life of diesels in a RV is the
sulfur in
> the fuel. During the combustion cycle there is some sulfuric acid
produced.
> Then the RV is parked for extended periods of time and condensation
develops
> because of temperature changes. Now you have sulfuric acid and H2O
eating
> at your bearings and anything else that the oil is in contact
with. OTR
> rigs due not usually have this problem because they are run daily
for hours
> and the very little condensation is formed and what is is
evaporated due to
> the heat. This is one of the reasons that it is recommended to
change the
> oil before any extended storage. This may be one benefit of ULSD,
but I
> still have the oil changed if I know that our BB will not be
driven for
> awhile.
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@
yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:03 AM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@
yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?
>
>
>
> I think others have covered this subject very well and I likely
don't
> have much factual information to add (none actually)only to say I
> feel the pain with this thread. I have owned a bunch of diesel
> engined vehicles and contrary to what seems to be a commonly held
> believe diesels are not superior to gas engines. I held that option
> and I now feel they are, shall we say necessary. Possibly necessary
> evils might even be applied. Evil because when they are working
well
> they are wonderful but when they fail they are costly creatures to
> fix. My experience has been that the fuel savings are almost always
> balanced by increase repair and maintenance expenses. But what can
be
> done? These big vehicles require diesel engines. Others have
> suggested what can be done to reduce the chances of failures but
they
> happen. Some of the best advice I was given was to set a side funds
> for the expected (not unexpected) repairs and I am trying to do two
> things. Save that money and mentally prepare myself so that I am
not
> an emotional wreck when it happens. We know a couple things. The
> 3208 Cat is not the finest engine ever built. We also know not to
> overheat any engine, and that good maintenance is mandatory. Most
> all the other to does and not to does have been covered. My point
is
> simple it you "get into" this you have to have realistic
> expectations. I paid approximately 20K for my BB. I have my fingers
> crossed but I know that if the generator, engine and trans all
failed
> I'd have every bite the price of the MH in repairs and likely a lot
> more. This is the reality of playing the game we play. Would buying
> a new "cheap" MH for lets say $150K give you better service and
make
> a guy "feel" better. For some obviously it would. In the end you
> pays your money and you takes your chances. Better to know the
truth
> before you stick your feet into the water of ole BB MH's. That all
> being said. I wish all of us the best of possible luck and enjoy
the
> freedom and fun and try to be realistic and not worry about the
> negatives. Nothing comes cheap and especially not MH's and boats.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC converted to Cat 3208
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ 40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com, "whistles_n_bells"
> > wrote:
> > > Hope you don't mind the post - I'm still a Wannabe - but
> > > fortunate enough to still have the opportunity to "run."
> >
> > Joe/Pappy,
> >
> > Mind the post? Shoot I always pay attention to the voice of
> > experience. Post away. Your professional driving experiences help
> us
> > all be better owner/operators. That's what we're here for - to
> learn
> > from one another.
> >
> > Mike Bulriss
> > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > San Antonio, TX
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ 40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com, "whistles_n_bells"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I suppose one could compare the operation of a bus type
> motorhome -
> > > Wanderlodge, Newell, Prevost - with the operation of our own
> bodies.
> > > It takes good preventive maintenance and "smart running" and the
> > > obligatory physicals.
> > >
> > >
> > > If we sit around for a bit, then try to go out and run or do
some
> > > strenuous exercise without a good warm-up period, we are going
> to be
> > > huffing and puffing for a while - hopefully not causing any
> damage.
> > >
> > >
> > > All the working systems in the Birds - and some SOBs - are
> complex
> > > and well engineered. Constant care is mandatory if longevity is
> to be
> > > achieved. I have a neighbor who owns an Alpine (Western RV)
with
> a 400
> > > HP Cummins and Allison six-speed; however, it sits for months
at
> a time
> > > - it receives little "exercise" It's veins (waters
> > > lines) suffer sitting idle, as do it's "lungs" (air systems
> > > including dryer) also do not get to flex - fittings, seals,
plugs
> > > etc. Of course it's heart - that CAT, DD or Cummins - will
suffer
> a
> > > form of congestive heart failure from not running frequently.
> Yes, tires
> > > need to flex continuously for a long and productive life. The
man
> has
> > > continuous problems with his coach - he doesn't run it enough. I
> > > have suggested that he take it out on the Interstate and run it
> for an
> > > hour once a week to let it stretch it's legs and breath.
> > >
> > >
> > > During my many years OTR, taking care of my equipment was (is)
> > > paramount. Although I did not (do not) perform major maintenance
> > > functions, being aware of the condition of my equipment is part
of
> > > survival on the road. I was fortunate that I started fleet
> driving in
> > > the fifties, we did not have cell phones, CB radios and the
other
> > > conveniences of communication that we enjoy today. When I left a
> > > terminal on the start of a 400 mile trip, that coach had to be
> > > up-to-snuff. It's no fun being broken down with 4o or so
> passengers
> > > in the middle of nowhere - particularly in cold weather. As
> drivers,
> > > we were sure to write-up mechanical discrepancies - and
followed-
> up
> > > on corrective action by our mechanics. Those habits stuck. The
> buses I
> > > drive typically go anywhere from 300,000 to 500,000 miles
between
> > > rebuilds on the M11 Cummins - if they are run according to
book,
> and
> > > depending upon the experience level of the drivers - and their
> > > compliance with operating procedures - and competent mechanics.
We
> > > do a lot of mountain driving, more two-lane roads than
> Interstates.
> > > Keeps me young.
> > >
> > >
> > > Granted, there are so many variables that come into play with
> each coach
> > > - location, type of driving conditions (flat running,
mountains),
> > > weather, climate, storage, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hope you don't mind the post - I'm still a Wannabe - but
> > > fortunate enough to still have the opportunity to "run."
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe (Pappy) Hagan
> > > St. George, UT
> > > (Wannabe)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[ronmarabito2002]

Chuck: The ULSD definitely increases wear. My last oil test revealed
an increase wear with tin. I was not running a treatment at the time.
I am now using a good fuel treatment and hope that solves the
problem. It might based upon information from my filter company experts.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Wheeler"
wrote:
>
> I do not know the real long term effects of ULSD. My local CAT
dealer says
> that there should be no problem if the engine is in good shape. I'm
waiting
> to see. I remember all the talk of failure when the unleaded fuels were
> introduced in the 1970s. I was running a 66 ford pickup pretty hard
pulling
> a 4 horse trailer between Tehachapi and Santa Anita and was
concerned. That
> truck finally broke a timing chain in 1989 with 346,000+ miles on
it. It
> went the last 266,000 miles on unleaded.
>
> I have 200,000+ miles on this 3208 and it is using some oil so a
rebuild in
> probably in the future with or without ULSD. The last 33,000 miles have
> been with ULSD and so far so good. Time will tell....
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 5:41 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?
>
>
>
> Very good point Chuck. That perhaps explains at least partly why
> diesels work well in the vehicles in which they work well. Over the
> road trucks and buses and taxi cabs to mention a few. I have heard
> some mention that there are down sides to the low sulpher fuels.
> Perhaps you or others might speak to that subject. I really don't
> know a thing about diesel fuel. Might be time to learn a bit on that
> subject since the credit card shows I am buying my share. Aw the ole
> first of the month bills.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>
> >
> > One thing that leads to the shorter life of diesels in a RV is the
> sulfur in
> > the fuel. During the combustion cycle there is some sulfuric acid
> produced.
> > Then the RV is parked for extended periods of time and condensation
> develops
> > because of temperature changes. Now you have sulfuric acid and H2O
> eating
> > at your bearings and anything else that the oil is in contact
> with. OTR
> > rigs due not usually have this problem because they are run daily
> for hours
> > and the very little condensation is formed and what is is
> evaporated due to
> > the heat. This is one of the reasons that it is recommended to
> change the
> > oil before any extended storage. This may be one benefit of ULSD,
> but I
> > still have the oil changed if I know that our BB will not be
> driven for
> > awhile.
> > - Chuck Wheeler-
> > FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:03 AM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?
> >
> >
> >
> > I think others have covered this subject very well and I likely
> don't
> > have much factual information to add (none actually)only to say I
> > feel the pain with this thread. I have owned a bunch of diesel
> > engined vehicles and contrary to what seems to be a commonly held
> > believe diesels are not superior to gas engines. I held that option
> > and I now feel they are, shall we say necessary. Possibly necessary
> > evils might even be applied. Evil because when they are working
> well
> > they are wonderful but when they fail they are costly creatures to
> > fix. My experience has been that the fuel savings are almost always
> > balanced by increase repair and maintenance expenses. But what can
> be
> > done? These big vehicles require diesel engines. Others have
> > suggested what can be done to reduce the chances of failures but
> they
> > happen. Some of the best advice I was given was to set a side funds
> > for the expected (not unexpected) repairs and I am trying to do two
> > things. Save that money and mentally prepare myself so that I am
> not
> > an emotional wreck when it happens. We know a couple things. The
> > 3208 Cat is not the finest engine ever built. We also know not to
> > overheat any engine, and that good maintenance is mandatory. Most
> > all the other to does and not to does have been covered. My point
> is
> > simple it you "get into" this you have to have realistic
> > expectations. I paid approximately 20K for my BB. I have my fingers
> > crossed but I know that if the generator, engine and trans all
> failed
> > I'd have every bite the price of the MH in repairs and likely a lot
> > more. This is the reality of playing the game we play. Would buying
> > a new "cheap" MH for lets say $150K give you better service and
> make
> > a guy "feel" better. For some obviously it would. In the end you
> > pays your money and you takes your chances. Better to know the
> truth
> > before you stick your feet into the water of ole BB MH's. That all
> > being said. I wish all of us the best of possible luck and enjoy
> the
> > freedom and fun and try to be realistic and not worry about the
> > negatives. Nothing comes cheap and especially not MH's and boats.
> >
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC converted to Cat 3208
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > yahoogroups.com, "whistles_n_bells"
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hope you don't mind the post - I'm still a Wannabe - but
> > > > fortunate enough to still have the opportunity to "run."
> > >
> > > Joe/Pappy,
> > >
> > > Mind the post? Shoot I always pay attention to the voice of
> > > experience. Post away. Your professional driving experiences help
> > us
> > > all be better owner/operators. That's what we're here for - to
> > learn
> > > from one another.
> > >
> > > Mike Bulriss
> > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > San Antonio, TX
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > yahoogroups.com, "whistles_n_bells"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I suppose one could compare the operation of a bus type
> > motorhome -
> > > > Wanderlodge, Newell, Prevost - with the operation of our own
> > bodies.
> > > > It takes good preventive maintenance and "smart running" and the
> > > > obligatory physicals.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If we sit around for a bit, then try to go out and run or do
> some
> > > > strenuous exercise without a good warm-up period, we are going
> > to be
> > > > huffing and puffing for a while - hopefully not causing any
> > damage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > All the working systems in the Birds - and some SOBs - are
> > complex
> > > > and well engineered. Constant care is mandatory if longevity is
> > to be
> > > > achieved. I have a neighbor who owns an Alpine (Western RV)
> with
> > a 400
> > > > HP Cummins and Allison six-speed; however, it sits for months
> at
> > a time
> > > > - it receives little "exercise" It's veins (waters
> > > > lines) suffer sitting idle, as do it's "lungs" (air systems
> > > > including dryer) also do not get to flex - fittings, seals,
> plugs
> > > > etc. Of course it's heart - that CAT, DD or Cummins - will
> suffer
> > a
> > > > form of congestive heart failure from not running frequently.
> > Yes, tires
> > > > need to flex continuously for a long and productive life. The
> man
> > has
> > > > continuous problems with his coach - he doesn't run it enough. I
> > > > have suggested that he take it out on the Interstate and run it
> > for an
> > > > hour once a week to let it stretch it's legs and breath.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > During my many years OTR, taking care of my equipment was (is)
> > > > paramount. Although I did not (do not) perform major maintenance
> > > > functions, being aware of the condition of my equipment is part
> of
> > > > survival on the road. I was fortunate that I started fleet
> > driving in
> > > > the fifties, we did not have cell phones, CB radios and the
> other
> > > > conveniences of communication that we enjoy today. When I left a
> > > > terminal on the start of a 400 mile trip, that coach had to be
> > > > up-to-snuff. It's no fun being broken down with 4o or so
> > passengers
> > > > in the middle of nowhere - particularly in cold weather. As
> > drivers,
> > > > we were sure to write-up mechanical discrepancies - and
> followed-
> > up
> > > > on corrective action by our mechanics. Those habits stuck. The
> > buses I
> > > > drive typically go anywhere from 300,000 to 500,000 miles
> between
> > > > rebuilds on the M11 Cummins - if they are run according to
> book,
> > and
> > > > depending upon the experience level of the drivers - and their
> > > > compliance with operating procedures - and competent mechanics.
> We
> > > > do a lot of mountain driving, more two-lane roads than
> > Interstates.
> > > > Keeps me young.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Granted, there are so many variables that come into play with
> > each coach
> > > > - location, type of driving conditions (flat running,
> mountains),
> > > > weather, climate, storage, etc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hope you don't mind the post - I'm still a Wannabe - but
> > > > fortunate enough to still have the opportunity to "run."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Joe (Pappy) Hagan
> > > > St. George, UT
> > > > (Wannabe)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Tin is in the bearings, iron is in the sleves and valves. If excess
iron or alumnium, I would look at the fuel ????? Did they say how
the fuels could fill your test with tin? I would send in the oil
filter if you have concern. the larger particles dont show up in
oilsample tests. I dont do oil sampling because the news is never
good. Its like looking out at the street to see if your car is stolen
yet.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
wrote:
>
> Chuck: The ULSD definitely increases wear. My last oil test
revealed
> an increase wear with tin. I was not running a treatment at the
time.
> I am now using a good fuel treatment and hope that solves the
> problem. It might based upon information from my filter company
experts.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Wheeler"
> wrote:
> >
> > I do not know the real long term effects of ULSD. My local CAT
> dealer says
> > that there should be no problem if the engine is in good shape.
I'm
> waiting
> > to see. I remember all the talk of failure when the unleaded
fuels were
> > introduced in the 1970s. I was running a 66 ford pickup pretty
hard
> pulling
> > a 4 horse trailer between Tehachapi and Santa Anita and was
> concerned. That
> > truck finally broke a timing chain in 1989 with 346,000+ miles on
> it. It
> > went the last 266,000 miles on unleaded.
> >
> > I have 200,000+ miles on this 3208 and it is using some oil so a
> rebuild in
> > probably in the future with or without ULSD. The last 33,000
miles have
> > been with ULSD and so far so good. Time will tell....
> >
> > - Chuck Wheeler-
> > FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
bubblerboy64
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 5:41 PM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?
> >
> >
> >
> > Very good point Chuck. That perhaps explains at least partly why
> > diesels work well in the vehicles in which they work well. Over
the
> > road trucks and buses and taxi cabs to mention a few. I have
heard
> > some mention that there are down sides to the low sulpher fuels.
> > Perhaps you or others might speak to that subject. I really don't
> > know a thing about diesel fuel. Might be time to learn a bit on
that
> > subject since the credit card shows I am buying my share. Aw the
ole
> > first of the month bills.
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> > >
> > > One thing that leads to the shorter life of diesels in a RV is
the
> > sulfur in
> > > the fuel. During the combustion cycle there is some sulfuric
acid
> > produced.
> > > Then the RV is parked for extended periods of time and
condensation
> > develops
> > > because of temperature changes. Now you have sulfuric acid and
H2O
> > eating
> > > at your bearings and anything else that the oil is in contact
> > with. OTR
> > > rigs due not usually have this problem because they are run
daily
> > for hours
> > > and the very little condensation is formed and what is is
> > evaporated due to
> > > the heat. This is one of the reasons that it is recommended to
> > change the
> > > oil before any extended storage. This may be one benefit of
ULSD,
> > but I
> > > still have the oil changed if I know that our BB will not be
> > driven for
> > > awhile.
> > > - Chuck Wheeler-
> > > FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: WanderlodgeForum@ 40yahoogroups.com>
> > yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@ 40yahoogroups.com>
> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:03 AM
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@ 40yahoogroups.com>
> > yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think others have covered this subject very well and I likely
> > don't
> > > have much factual information to add (none actually)only to say
I
> > > feel the pain with this thread. I have owned a bunch of diesel
> > > engined vehicles and contrary to what seems to be a commonly
held
> > > believe diesels are not superior to gas engines. I held that
option
> > > and I now feel they are, shall we say necessary. Possibly
necessary
> > > evils might even be applied. Evil because when they are working
> > well
> > > they are wonderful but when they fail they are costly creatures
to
> > > fix. My experience has been that the fuel savings are almost
always
> > > balanced by increase repair and maintenance expenses. But what
can
> > be
> > > done? These big vehicles require diesel engines. Others have
> > > suggested what can be done to reduce the chances of failures
but
> > they
> > > happen. Some of the best advice I was given was to set a side
funds
> > > for the expected (not unexpected) repairs and I am trying to do
two
> > > things. Save that money and mentally prepare myself so that I
am
> > not
> > > an emotional wreck when it happens. We know a couple things.
The
> > > 3208 Cat is not the finest engine ever built. We also know not
to
> > > overheat any engine, and that good maintenance is mandatory.
Most
> > > all the other to does and not to does have been covered. My
point
> > is
> > > simple it you "get into" this you have to have realistic
> > > expectations. I paid approximately 20K for my BB. I have my
fingers
> > > crossed but I know that if the generator, engine and trans all
> > failed
> > > I'd have every bite the price of the MH in repairs and likely a
lot
> > > more. This is the reality of playing the game we play. Would
buying
> > > a new "cheap" MH for lets say $150K give you better service and
> > make
> > > a guy "feel" better. For some obviously it would. In the end
you
> > > pays your money and you takes your chances. Better to know the
> > truth
> > > before you stick your feet into the water of ole BB MH's. That
all
> > > being said. I wish all of us the best of possible luck and
enjoy
> > the
> > > freedom and fun and try to be realistic and not worry about the
> > > negatives. Nothing comes cheap and especially not MH's and
boats.
> > >
> > > John Heckman
> > > central Pa
> > > 1973 FC converted to Cat 3208
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > yahoogroups.com, "whistles_n_bells"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Hope you don't mind the post - I'm still a Wannabe - but
> > > > > fortunate enough to still have the opportunity to "run."
> > > >
> > > > Joe/Pappy,
> > > >
> > > > Mind the post? Shoot I always pay attention to the voice of
> > > > experience. Post away. Your professional driving experiences
help
> > > us
> > > > all be better owner/operators. That's what we're here for -
to
> > > learn
> > > > from one another.
> > > >
> > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > yahoogroups.com, "whistles_n_bells"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I suppose one could compare the operation of a bus type
> > > motorhome -
> > > > > Wanderlodge, Newell, Prevost - with the operation of our
own
> > > bodies.
> > > > > It takes good preventive maintenance and "smart running"
and the
> > > > > obligatory physicals.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If we sit around for a bit, then try to go out and run or
do
> > some
> > > > > strenuous exercise without a good warm-up period, we are
going
> > > to be
> > > > > huffing and puffing for a while - hopefully not causing any
> > > damage.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > All the working systems in the Birds - and some SOBs - are
> > > complex
> > > > > and well engineered. Constant care is mandatory if
longevity is
> > > to be
> > > > > achieved. I have a neighbor who owns an Alpine (Western RV)
> > with
> > > a 400
> > > > > HP Cummins and Allison six-speed; however, it sits for
months
> > at
> > > a time
> > > > > - it receives little "exercise" It's veins (waters
> > > > > lines) suffer sitting idle, as do it's "lungs" (air systems
> > > > > including dryer) also do not get to flex - fittings, seals,
> > plugs
> > > > > etc. Of course it's heart - that CAT, DD or Cummins - will
> > suffer
> > > a
> > > > > form of congestive heart failure from not running
frequently.
> > > Yes, tires
> > > > > need to flex continuously for a long and productive life.
The
> > man
> > > has
> > > > > continuous problems with his coach - he doesn't run it
enough. I
> > > > > have suggested that he take it out on the Interstate and
run it
> > > for an
> > > > > hour once a week to let it stretch it's legs and breath.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > During my many years OTR, taking care of my equipment was
(is)
> > > > > paramount. Although I did not (do not) perform major
maintenance
> > > > > functions, being aware of the condition of my equipment is
part
> > of
> > > > > survival on the road. I was fortunate that I started fleet
> > > driving in
> > > > > the fifties, we did not have cell phones, CB radios and the
> > other
> > > > > conveniences of communication that we enjoy today. When I
left a
> > > > > terminal on the start of a 400 mile trip, that coach had to
be
> > > > > up-to-snuff. It's no fun being broken down with 4o or so
> > > passengers
> > > > > in the middle of nowhere - particularly in cold weather. As
> > > drivers,
> > > > > we were sure to write-up mechanical discrepancies - and
> > followed-
> > > up
> > > > > on corrective action by our mechanics. Those habits stuck.
The
> > > buses I
> > > > > drive typically go anywhere from 300,000 to 500,000 miles
> > between
> > > > > rebuilds on the M11 Cummins - if they are run according to
> > book,
> > > and
> > > > > depending upon the experience level of the drivers - and
their
> > > > > compliance with operating procedures - and competent
mechanics.
> > We
> > > > > do a lot of mountain driving, more two-lane roads than
> > > Interstates.
> > > > > Keeps me young.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Granted, there are so many variables that come into play
with
> > > each coach
> > > > > - location, type of driving conditions (flat running,
> > mountains),
> > > > > weather, climate, storage, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope you don't mind the post - I'm still a Wannabe - but
> > > > > fortunate enough to still have the opportunity to "run."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe (Pappy) Hagan
> > > > > St. George, UT
> > > > > (Wannabe)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[PM7088@...]

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gregory OConnor"
Tin is in the bearings, iron is in the sleves and valves. If excess
iron or alumnium, I would look at the fuel ????? Did they say how
the fuels could fill your test with tin? I would send in the oil
filter if you have concern. the larger particles dont show up in
oilsample tests. I dont do oil sampling because the news is never
good. Its like looking out at the street to see if your car is stolen
yet. > >

No agreement here.
The importance of oil analysis is watching the tends. It's nice to know that
your bearings are unhappy before you're 500 miles from home.

Pete
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gregory OConnor]

Pete, with oilsampling, you and Ron are surly in a more informative
position then I. The problem with the information is Trends prove need
for major service or repair that add too much pressure for $ action or
caution for use. Newer Cat products have identifiers in various
bearings that allow oil contents to define what bearing is wearing out.
Without that pinpoint of issue, the information more or less says "UTT
OH, time to replace everything"
Antifreeze in the oil is an informative find but the chance that you
will find that the headgasket just started to leak prior to your 10,000
mile oilchange is slim.

They say the first signs of aging is grey hair. Bald, I never acted to
correct the issue until I was old enough to realize any vain attemt
would be invain.
GregoryO'Connor


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, PM7088@... wrote
No agreement here.
> The importance of oil analysis is watching the tends. It's nice to
know that your bearings are unhappy before you're 500 miles from home.
>
> Pete

>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Gregory OConnor"
> Tin is in the bearings, iron is in the sleves and valves. If excess
> iron or alumnium, I would look at the fuel ????? Did they say how
> the fuels could fill your test with tin? I would send in the oil
> filter if you have concern. the larger particles dont show up in
> oilsample tests. I dont do oil sampling because the news is never
> good. Its like looking out at the street to see if your car is stolen
> yet. > >
>
>> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[putneyflash@...>]

A 3208 should go about 250,000 miles before overhaul, I have seen some go as
high as 500,000 miles.. Because it is a parent block engine ( no liners) The
block usually is oversized to 10, 20, 50 thousands and this requires new pistons
and rings. Like howard said the early guys had a lot of problems, NO 1 of all
times was the valve springs, they would break. Cat replaced every set in a 3208
in a on highway application. Number 7 and 8 pistons would gald due to over
heating. bigger theromstats solved this. Early models have low compresson on one
bank causing a lot of white smoke at start up. If it is turbo or turbo and after
cooled all these problems were solved before production.
I think now it is a good sound engine use a good grade 15-40 oil.
You can also buy a remaned short block or long block from cat as a repair
option, Don't buy one with a crankshaft turned 50 thousandth.

> From: "Howard O. Truitt" > Date: 2007/09/04 Tue AM 08:53:31 EDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?
>
> Ron,
> I understand your comments. My partner was the shop manager, head mechanic
and supervisor over the drivers. We assigned a driver to a truck and he had to
answer for the truck.
> Howard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ronmarabito2002
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:00 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?
>
>
> Howard: You are overlooking the fact that the trucks do not belong to
> the drivers, thus they usually could care less about the maintenance
> and the any warnings from the vehicle. If they run them into the
> ground, it's no skin off their nose.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Howard O. Truitt"
> wrote:
> >
> > Kerry,
> > I was before retiring the senior partner and ceo of a food service
> company here in Georgia.
> > We ran a fleet of refrigerated trucks powered with 3208 cats and we
> sure had our troubles. We did employ some very able mechinics to work
> on them in our garage.
> > Howard
> > 86 PT40
> > Camilla, Ga.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: davidkerryedwards
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 1:03 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?
> >
> >
> > It would be interesting to know the comparative life spans of
> engines in bus applications
> > vs. engines in motorhome applications. With buses there is
> generally (at least with
> > schoolbuses), a mechanic who is responsible for their mechanical
> health. There isn't such
> > a mechanic with most motorhomes, and many people who buy
> motorhomes are not
> > themselves mechanics, meaning a problem which might be caught
> early and fixed is not
> > as likely to be detected in a motorhome, particularly pushers
> where sounds and smells are
> > a long way from the driver. Add to that the fact that people with
> enough $$ to buy these
> > coaches new, are of advanced age with sensory skills past their
> prime.
> > My Fc had the engine replaced at 75k. Records show a rod went thru
> the block. Don't
> > know why, but those kinds of events usually give some kind of warning.
> >
> > Kerry
> > 82 FC 35
> > Denver
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bingomaster05"
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge
> within the
> > > next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> > > coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel
> engine is
> > > capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> > > listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> > > slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> > > maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for
> extended
> > > periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think
> they
> > > are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it
> harder
> > > to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
> > >
> > > Dan Thomas
> > > PT 40 (soon)
> > > Central PA
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/977 - Release Date:
> 8/28/2007 4:29 PM
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/977 - Release Date: 8/28/2007
4:29 PM
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Howard O. Truitt]

Hi Folks,
R.E. Brake aka The Putney Flash was service manager for the Cat dealer in
Albany, Ga. He is now a Cat special project manager for the military. He knows a
lot of what he speaks. FWIW.
Howard T.,


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]