State Your Engine Problem Areas

[bingomaster05]

Hi All,

I could easily ask which of the big three engines is the best, Cat.,
Cummins or DD..but I won't. Naturally each owner will speak of the
virtues of their particular engine. Therefore, I would like to know
the problem areas with each engine. You as owners know what they are;
pesky leaks, hard to work on, uses oil ect... By getting info on the
weaknesses of each motor, helps me to decide which is really the best
powerplant. I know that I will get a ton of response to this post,
you guys have the best forum with the most knowledgable members. Also,
does the MPG change with the powerplant? Thanks till next time.

Dan Thomas
Central PA
Really Wannabe

[Don Bradner]

It probably matters a great deal which Cat, which Cummins, which DD. In my last
three coaches I've had Cat (3126B), Cummins (ISL), and DD (8V92TA). The Cat had
been abused/poorly maintained by the previous owner, and had its share of
troubles including oil leaks, a seized idler pulley that disintegrated and
caused a lot of grief, etc. The Cummins was far and away the highest
power/weight ratio I've experienced - 370HP on 30K including toad. It ran well
for 63,000 miles, but did experience a cracked exhaust manifold, turbo that was
discovered to be coming apart when the manifold was removed, and fuel leaks from
the pump accumulator (twice). It got the best mileage of the 3, at 8.3MPG
average for the 63K miles.

I worried most about the DD before getting it, because there are a lot of
negatives written about the 2-stroke engines. I suspect it is actually the most
rugged engine I've had so far, with the most significant difffernece being that
the much more modern computers in the Cummins, with the Allison 3000, would keep
the vehicle owner from doing overly bad things that are possible with an older
engine. Includes over-revving and over-heating. So far through 4K miles this one
has been trouble-free, and is averaging about 5.2MPG.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting today by Satellite from Golden, Colorado

On 9/21/2007 at 6:15 PM bingomaster05 wrote:

>Hi All,
>
> I could easily ask which of the big three engines is the best, Cat.,
>Cummins or DD..but I won't. Naturally each owner will speak of the
>virtues of their particular engine. Therefore, I would like to know
>the problem areas with each engine. You as owners know what they are;
>pesky leaks, hard to work on, uses oil ect... By getting info on the
>weaknesses of each motor, helps me to decide which is really the best
>powerplant. I know that I will get a ton of response to this post,
>you guys have the best forum with the most knowledgable members. Also,
>does the MPG change with the powerplant? Thanks till next time.
>
>Dan Thomas
>Central PA
>Really Wannabe

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---DON:
Never had DD or Cummins engines. Had three birds; 77FC33 with a
3208NA, 165,000 miles..nice engine but used a bit of
oil......currently have the 90SP36 with the 3208 Turbo, only 41,000
miles on it and it runs great!...my third BIRD was a 1980 FC31 with
a professionaly rebuilt 3208NA with 3 ring pistons in it..wow..what
an engine..built tight, never used oil and had plenty of power...when
I sold it reluctantly last year, Naughty & I drove it from VEGAS to
Birhmingham AND it honestly did not use oil!! The engine was
powerful and tight.....loved that 80FC31..drove it like a pickup
truck.....highly recommend a 31FC to anyone looking for an old
bird...it is all we needed......had to part with it though because
nobody wanted to pay me anything for my beautiful 90SP...and shippers
wanted $15,000 to ship the 80FC31 to Australia.......
well that's it from here...We are in Sydney, Australia this week
heading up NORTH to warmer weather in our "new" Campervan waiting for
the next Texas Holdem Tourney in late October...LOL
Regards to all at RIV.
Hank & Naty
90SP36...Stored in VEGAS













In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> It probably matters a great deal which Cat, which Cummins, which
DD. In my last three coaches I've had Cat (3126B), Cummins (ISL), and
DD (8V92TA). The Cat had been abused/poorly maintained by the
previous owner, and had its share of troubles including oil leaks, a
seized idler pulley that disintegrated and caused a lot of grief,
etc. The Cummins was far and away the highest power/weight ratio I've
experienced - 370HP on 30K including toad. It ran well for 63,000
miles, but did experience a cracked exhaust manifold, turbo that was
discovered to be coming apart when the manifold was removed, and fuel
leaks from the pump accumulator (twice). It got the best mileage of
the 3, at 8.3MPG average for the 63K miles.
>
> I worried most about the DD before getting it, because there are a
lot of negatives written about the 2-stroke engines. I suspect it is
actually the most rugged engine I've had so far, with the most
significant difffernece being that the much more modern computers in
the Cummins, with the Allison 3000, would keep the vehicle owner from
doing overly bad things that are possible with an older engine.
Includes over-revving and over-heating. So far through 4K miles this
one has been trouble-free, and is averaging about 5.2MPG.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Posting today by Satellite from Golden, Colorado
>
> On 9/21/2007 at 6:15 PM bingomaster05 wrote:
>
> >Hi All,
> >
> > I could easily ask which of the big three engines is the best,
Cat.,
> >Cummins or DD..but I won't. Naturally each owner will speak of
the
> >virtues of their particular engine. Therefore, I would like to
know
> >the problem areas with each engine. You as owners know what they
are;
> >pesky leaks, hard to work on, uses oil ect... By getting info on
the
> >weaknesses of each motor, helps me to decide which is really the
best
> >powerplant. I know that I will get a ton of response to this
post,
> >you guys have the best forum with the most knowledgable members.
Also,
> >does the MPG change with the powerplant? Thanks till next time.
> >
> >Dan Thomas
> >Central PA
> >Really Wannabe
>

[David Brady]

DD S60, 80K miles, no problems, no oil usage, 7 to 7.5 mpg,
gobs of power, wonderful mechanical noise that'll frighten most
women and children. Oil pressure: 40 to 55psi at 1800 rpm down
to 25 psi at idle, water temp: 180 to 205 deg F, turbo pyrometer: up
to 1200 deg F, turbo boost: 30 psi max. 500 hp. I bought the
coach for the motor.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

bingomaster05 wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I could easily ask which of the big three engines is the best, Cat.,
> Cummins or DD..but I won't. Naturally each owner will speak of the
> virtues of their particular engine. Therefore, I would like to know
> the problem areas with each engine. You as owners know what they are;
> pesky leaks, hard to work on, uses oil ect... By getting info on the
> weaknesses of each motor, helps me to decide which is really the best
> powerplant. I know that I will get a ton of response to this post,
> you guys have the best forum with the most knowledgable members. Also,
> does the MPG change with the powerplant? Thanks till next time.
>
> Dan Thomas
> Central PA
> Really Wannabe
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: 9/19/2007
3:59 PM
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Hohnstein]

Actually it's an "engine" and it's not good to spend much time @ 1200, very bad.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: David Brady
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] State Your Engine Problem Areas


DD S60, 80K miles, no problems, no oil usage, 7 to 7.5 mpg,
gobs of power, wonderful mechanical noise that'll frighten most
women and children. Oil pressure: 40 to 55psi at 1800 rpm down
to 25 psi at idle, water temp: 180 to 205 deg F, turbo pyrometer: up
to 1200 deg F, turbo boost: 30 psi max. 500 hp. I bought the
coach for the motor.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

bingomaster05 wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I could easily ask which of the big three engines is the best, Cat.,
> Cummins or DD..but I won't. Naturally each owner will speak of the
> virtues of their particular engine. Therefore, I would like to know
> the problem areas with each engine. You as owners know what they are;
> pesky leaks, hard to work on, uses oil ect... By getting info on the
> weaknesses of each motor, helps me to decide which is really the best
> powerplant. I know that I will get a ton of response to this post,
> you guys have the best forum with the most knowledgable members. Also,
> does the MPG change with the powerplant? Thanks till next time.
>
> Dan Thomas
> Central PA
> Really Wannabe
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: 9/19/2007
3:59 PM
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David Brady]

Hi Mike,

Ahh, I'm a Pennsylvania boy, it'll always be a motor!

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

Mike Hohnstein wrote:
>
> Actually it's an "engine" and it's not good to spend much time @ 1200,
> very bad.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Brady
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] State Your Engine Problem Areas
>
> DD S60, 80K miles, no problems, no oil usage, 7 to 7.5 mpg,
> gobs of power, wonderful mechanical noise that'll frighten most
> women and children. Oil pressure: 40 to 55psi at 1800 rpm down
> to 25 psi at idle, water temp: 180 to 205 deg F, turbo pyrometer: up
> to 1200 deg F, turbo boost: 30 psi max. 500 hp. I bought the
> coach for the motor.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> bingomaster05 wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I could easily ask which of the big three engines is the best, Cat.,
> > Cummins or DD..but I won't. Naturally each owner will speak of the
> > virtues of their particular engine. Therefore, I would like to know
> > the problem areas with each engine. You as owners know what they are;
> > pesky leaks, hard to work on, uses oil ect... By getting info on the
> > weaknesses of each motor, helps me to decide which is really the best
> > powerplant. I know that I will get a ton of response to this post,
> > you guys have the best forum with the most knowledgable members. Also,
> > does the MPG change with the powerplant? Thanks till next time.
> >
> > Dan Thomas
> > Central PA
> > Really Wannabe
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date:
> 9/19/2007 3:59 PM
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: 9/19/2007
3:59 PM
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Pete Masterson]

Within limits, engines of the same general horsepower with the same
approximate age will have similar fuel use and other factors in a BB WL.

The real difference is that different engines are mated to very
different coaches. An 82 FC may be a nice coach -- it will have the
3208 Cat -- but it's a very different coach than my 95 PT42 with the
DD Series 60. The 82 will also get a couple of MPG better than I
usually get -- but then my coach likely weighs 15 to 20 thousand
pounds more than an 82 FC.

The engine was a factor in my choosing the coach I purchased. I was
attracted to the DD Series 60 primarily because it is a currently
produced engine and finding qualified mechanical help should not be a
problem. Some of the older engines have been out of production for
such a long time that finding qualified (knowledgeable) help is
difficult as the "old guys" have mostly retired.

I don't know that your question is one that has any general answers.
All will be hard to work on. These are busses, not over the road
trucks that tend to have more accessible engine compartments.

All the engines are very sensitive to overheating -- I think that is
the key reason for early rebuilds. The overheating sensitivity
applies to all the engines used in BBs -- Cat, DD, and Cummins. The
two cycle DD engines (6V92, 8V92) tend to dribble oil -- and that's a
factor of their 2 cycle design. Perhaps others will know of specific
problem areas with the other engines used. I've had some heating
issues with my DD Series 60, but I had the radiator core replaced and
that has solved the problem. (I also clean it from time to time to
avoid the build-up of oily dirt that is a problem for all rear-engine
(pusher) RVs.)

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
aeonix1@...



On Sep 21, 2007, at 11:15 AM, bingomaster05 wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I could easily ask which of the big three engines is the best, Cat.,
> Cummins or DD..but I won't. Naturally each owner will speak of the
> virtues of their particular engine. Therefore, I would like to know
> the problem areas with each engine. You as owners know what they are;
> pesky leaks, hard to work on, uses oil ect... By getting info on the
> weaknesses of each motor, helps me to decide which is really the best
> powerplant. I know that I will get a ton of response to this post,
> you guys have the best forum with the most knowledgable members. Also,
> does the MPG change with the powerplant? Thanks till next time.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gregory OConnor]

This is easy, No matter what powerplant, the inturuptive factor is
always the operator/owner.

The best one to buy is always the most expensive. the difference
between each choice seems to be a $20,000 reflection.

choice is more a matter of budget than want.

I want a Carrara but drive a Vega
GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bingomaster05"
wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I could easily ask which of the big three engines is the best,
Cat.,
> Cummins or DD..but I won't. Naturally each owner will speak of the
> virtues of their particular engine. Therefore, I would like to
know
> the problem areas with each engine. You as owners know what they
are;
> pesky leaks, hard to work on, uses oil ect... By getting info on
the
> weaknesses of each motor, helps me to decide which is really the
best
> powerplant. I know that I will get a ton of response to this
post,
> you guys have the best forum with the most knowledgable members.
Also,
> does the MPG change with the powerplant? Thanks till next time.
>
> Dan Thomas
> Central PA
> Really Wannabe
>