Now Oil Filters, was Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in Nashville

[mbulriss]

Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there is no
way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic tranny
fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.

In that same vein then, Alvie can't possibly have clean oil in a
diesel after 3,000 miles. Sorry, but synthetic users know that you
need very good oil filters to keep it clean or you are just wasting
money. Oil carries dirt, filters keep the oil clean.

To read *facts*, go to:
http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/moto...d_per\
formance_oil_filters.aspx
and read their FAQs

or the Donaldson filter site, they make filters, not oil:
http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/lube/lube.html
and
http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/exten...index.html

or even to the Amsoil filter site:
https://www.amsoil.com/filtration/index.aspx#

When you visit those three sites and look around, you will have
visited the 3 best oil filter providers IMO. By the way, the 6V&8V92
oil filter takes a Donaldson Endurance ELF7670 or a regular P551670.
Choose wisely.

Yes, you can keep the oil clean for 3000 miles like Alvie claims, but
not with pleated paper filters.

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
wrote:
>
> I'm having a hard time believing your story of clear oil in the 8V92
> after 3000 miles. The nature of the beast is to generate soot and
> that is what turns the oil black. Show me some laboratory oil
> analysis reports and I might believe you.
>
> We all tend to get the results we want.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "whynotam" wrote:
> >
> > Mike and all,
> >
> > I apologize for starting this huge controversy but quite frankly I
> > think you are 100% correct in stating that oil technology has
> > improved to the point where Detroit Diesels suggestions are way
> > behind the times. I can only speak from personal experience as I
> > don't have the oil industry back ground that Mike does but due to the
> > fact that I have used synthetic lubricants for many years and have
> > had very good success is the reason that I went with Amsoil's
> > recommendation to use the 15W40 in our 1993 8V92. The engine oil
> > consumption
> > dropped from 1 quart every 200 miles to around 1 quart per 600 miles.
> > With straight 40W Shell Rotella the oil was thin and black within the
> > first 500 miles but with the Amsoil it was still clear after 3000
> > miles same as in my Duramax Chevy after 7500 miles. Exhaust smoke was
> > also considerably reduced on the 8V92. Use what you like but be
> > assured there are definite advantages to the newer synthetic
> > formulations. My genes also seem to still be working fine
> >
> > Best to all,
> > Alvie Miller
> > 1993 WLWB on Amsoil 15W40
> > Arthur IL
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Alvie Miller - I rest my case!
> > >
> > > Pete, aren't you the same person that once said *ALL* DD engines
> > > require straight 40W? I also remember you later said jokingly
> > > something like "you are an old guy and all real DDs are 2-cycle" to
> > you.
> > >
> > > I guess I'm pressing my luck by not having any lubrication related
> > > failures,... you know, having used Amsoil since 1979 in general and
> > in
> > > my Birds since early 1997. Lots of other members are also using
> > Amsoil
> > > and other synthetics in their Birds.
> > >
> > > I know DD updated their 93K124 document on "ENGINE REQUIREMENTS —
> > > LUBRICATING OIL, FUEL AND FILTERS" in 2005, but that update was
> > mainly
> > > to update to reflect the newest API CI-4 rating. That document is
> > > almost entirely about the new series engines now and only mentions
> > the
> > > older 2-cycles by re-printing what has always been there. In their
> > > defense, I can't imagine why DD would spend $$$$$$$$ certifying the
> > > new breed of oils for an obsolete engine, but isn't it odd that they
> > > certify and recommend multi-weight synthetics and dino-based oils
> > for
> > > the newer engines?
> > >
> > > Just for the record, all my DD manuals I have ever had always said
> > you
> > > can use 15W-40 in colder climates, but recommend to change back to
> > > straight weight when temps rise to 'normal' again (above 40-50F? I
> > > think it was). Lubricating oils have come a long way from when DD
> > > started building the 2-cycles and was actively certifying oils for
> > > them. Multi-weight dino-based oils, circa 60s and 70s, did in fact
> > > break down incredibly fast when DD was actively building the 2-
> > cycles
> > > and actively certifying oils for them. Testing proved that the
> > > straight weight petroleum oils were much better back then for shear
> > > strength and thermal stability.
> > >
> > > Times change. The API standards have also evolved. The synthetics
> > > outperform petroleum based oils by a wide margin today. The way I
> > > understand it, the current generation of 15W-40 synthetics pass all
> > > requirements for the old straight weight petroleum 40. (Note: Even
> > > Mobil's Delvac 1 5W-40 is certified for the Series 60. And anything
> > > with 5W in it makes me shudder.)
> > >
> > > I compare the specs listed by DD against the actual specs of the
> > oil I
> > > use. Since we are talking Amsoil here, they used to make a
> > straight
> > > 40-weight diesel oil. Demand dropped to nothing, API standards
> > > changed, and now it is the 15W-40. I called and talked with their
> > > engineers before I went to that. (As the old 2-cycles get retired,
> > and
> > > the market for the old straight weight oils shrinks further, fewer
> > and
> > > fewer companies will even supply a straight-weight 40.)
> > >
> > > If you look at thermal stability and high shear strength, critical
> > > measurements for oil protection, the DD literature says: "In 15W-40
> > > grade oils, a HT/HS viscosity below 3.7 centipoise (cP) indicates
> > that
> > > the oil will not perform as a 40 grade oil at engine operating
> > > conditions." Amsoil's 15W-40 is measured at 4.4cP, well above DD
> > > minimum requirements. Checking DD Table 3.2 from their oil spec for
> > > 40W oil, the Amsoil 15W40 that Alvie mentioned meets all the
> > Kinematic
> > > Viscosity and the Viscosity Index requirements.
> > >
> > > Further, with the clean air acts and the decreases in sulfur
> > > requirements it is becoming a lot harder for the petroleum based
> > > fluids to meet the TBN (Total Base Number) requirements of the old
> > > 2-cycles - which is listed at a range of 7-10 TBN from the DD 40W
> > > chart. Now TBN is really a case where bigger is better. Amsoil's
> > TBN
> > > is 12.1 for their 15W-40. Total Base Number measures an oil's
> > > alkalinity and ability to neutralize acid using lab testing (ASTM D
> > > 2896 or D 4739) - acid production is generally considered bad for
> > your
> > > basic internal combustion engine.
> > >
> > > Finally, from the Amsoil web site:
> > > AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is recommended
> > > for use in diesel engines and other applications requiring any of
> > the
> > > listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines requiring API
> > SL,
> > > SJ, SH or ACEA A3.
> > >
> > > * API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
> > > * ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7
> > > * Global DHD-1
> > > * JASO DH-1
> > > * Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
> > > * DDC Power Guard 93K214
> > > * Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2
> > >
> > > Now I suppose they could be lying in print, but they probably have
> > > lawyers to prevent them from doing that unless they actually can
> > prove
> > > that they can meet those specs.
> > >
> > > Anyway, didn't mean to bludgeon the subject. I just wanted to set
> > the
> > > record straight. Newer doesn't mean bad. Otherwise the API, SAE
> > and
> > > ASTM testing wouldn't keep evolving. In the old days, if we got
> > 100k
> > > miles out of a car engine without a re-build it was fantastic. Now
> > > (with something at least resembling proper maintenance) people
> > > regularly get upwards of 250k. I've never had a Suburban with under
> > > 300k when I got rid of it, and they were all running good. Lots of
> > > that is due strictly to lubrication advances.
> > >
> > > FWIW,
> > >
> > > Mike Bulriss - gene pool still functioning fine thank you
> > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"- 8V92 running that nasty old Amsoil
> > > San Antonio, TX
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, PM7088@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The gene pool of home mechanics is purified by folks who: Use
> > > Amsoil in 2 cycle diesels, install K&N air filters and/or propane
> > > injectors and or sill "Chips" that increase their horsepower to the
> > > point that pistons melt.
> > > >
> > > > Pete
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > From: brad barton <bbartonwx@>
> > > > I always heard never to use anything but single-weight oil on my
> > > 8V92..never multigrade unless in a pinch.
> > > > FWIW
> > > >
> > > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > From: aamiller@
> > > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:41:17 +0000
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in Nashville
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > >
> > > > Do you like Amsoil also? I use the 15w40 heavy duty Marine in the
> > > > generator as well as the 8v92 and it is doing a great job. I
> > would
> > > > like to also switch the transmission fluid but haven't got it
> > done
> > > > yet. I also use Amsoil in the boys two BMW's, the wife's van, my
> > 05
> > > > Duramax pickup and in the tractor and mowers as well.
> > > >
> > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > 93 WLWB
> > > > Arthur IL
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the update. I'm going to change mine over to the
> > Amsoil
> > > > > equivalent of the Transynd, since I can get that cheaper. 1MPG
> > > > > increase is 20%!
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minvan"
> > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I call Prevost and they told me it is Transynd by Castrol.
> > > > > > http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also had a level 3 service which replaces all filters. In
> > the
> > > > > > Allison 6 speed I think there are 3 internal filters and of
> > > > course
> > > > > > all oil, fuel and air filters. They greased everything that
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > > grease and it also helped in the braking. I used to get a
> > noise
> > > > from
> > > > > > the front brake that was called normal but it has now quit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was told when I bought my coach that all the fluid &
> > filters
> > > > had
> > > > > > been changed but I really don't know for sure. But it did not
> > > > perform
> > > > > > like it does now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What I do know is that I'm up to 5.5 to 6 MPG from 4.5 to 4.8
> > > > > > according to the SilverLeaf VMSpc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Call it what you like, it's working for me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here's something to chew on. I don't know anything about H2O
> > > > helping
> > > > > > your fuel mileage but I know Propane injection works. On a
> > trip
> > > > last
> > > > > > summer I was at a Flying J in S.W. KY. At the RV island.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A trucker in a red and white Peterbuilt pulled in behind me.
> > I
> > > > > > thought that to strange in itself, so I went back to his
> > truck to
> > > > > > tell him I was going to be there a while for fuel and
> > propane.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He told me he was after propane. I asked why and he said he
> > had a
> > > > > > truck with propane injection and the outfit he drove for was
> > > > testing
> > > > > > the system on 20 or so trucks. I asked if it was working and
> > he
> > > > > > professed almost 2.5 MPG up on average.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know the guy whom works on
> > my
> > > > Ford
> > > > > > Powerstroke has a propane fire diesel pick up that with rip
> > and
> > > > > > snort, and he's getting better MPG than my truck gets
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid really made
> > a
> > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super smooth
> > > > shifting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HELLO! 1MPG from tranny fluid change!? Hey Kurt, feel free
> > to
> > > > > > > expound on the tranny fluid change. Synthetic I assume? I
> > > > have
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > putting that change off for a while since the dino tranny
> > fluid
> > > > was
> > > > > > > fresh, but for 1MPG.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - in need of a quick cheap 1MPG
> > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well you can tell I've been off the web for a while. My
> > > > computers
> > > > > > > > were infected by a Trojan virus late in Jan. It took a
> > while
> > > > and
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > new laptop to fix the problems. I lost a lot of files and
> > had
> > > > to
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > new credit cards. S.O.B.'s, "and I don't mean, Some Other
> > > > Bus" So
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > I repeat any request or post, or stuff you guys have
> > already
> > > > > > beaten
> > > > > > > > to death, forgive me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike your right; I do recall seeing that coach listed for
> > a
> > > > while
> > > > > > > > now. If it's truly a good deal it won't stick around for
> > > > long.
> > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > > go by Staley's if I have time just to look at her.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Paul, The Indulgence is safe at home and ready for this
> > > > weekend's
> > > > > > > > trip. I'm taking my daughter and 9 of her friends to
> > > > Nashville
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > their Senior Prom. Should be Hoot!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bye the way my coach is not for sale, I like all Birds,
> > but
> > > > the
> > > > > > PT-
> > > > > > > > 42's are my favorite flavor, maybe a 43 would due but I
> > would
> > > > not
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > to a 40 footer of any mfg. Yes you're right I'm spoiled!
> > All
> > > > I
> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > now is a Stacker Trailer that doesn't cost as much as my
> > > > coach,
> > > > > > so I
> > > > > > > > can load it up full of toys and its party time!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I had a full servicing done at Prevost Nashville a few
> > months
> > > > ago
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > it was well worth the money. All new filters & fluids,
> > the
> > > > new
> > > > > > tranny
> > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid really made
> > a
> > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super smooth
> > > > shifting.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > Jake is even smoother and not as radical, the jerking
> > upon
> > > > > > activation
> > > > > > > > has gone away. I'm a very happy camper. The brakes were
> > > > checked
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > wear and a full chassis lube, headlights adjusted and new
> > > > wiper
> > > > > > > > blades. She is ready to roll.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Damn the price of fuel! Full speed ahead!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > > > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Being rather partial to green coaches, I tend to watch
> > for
> > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > > one looks really good in the pictures, but it has been
> > on
> > > > > > > > consignment
> > > > > > > > > on Staley's lot for a *long* time. I distinctly
> > remember
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > (HEADLINER IN FRONT LOUNGE HAS DAMAGE AND NEEDS TO BE
> > > > REPAIRED)
> > > > > > > > > comment. Odd there are no pictures of the damage. As I
> > > > recall,
> > > > > > > > > someone went to see it and had posted a rather negative
> > > > > > review. I
> > > > > > > > > searched for that post but can't find it right now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If someone remembers that post or went to see the
> > coach,
> > > > please
> > > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > > us again.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (lot's of greeeeen, baby)
> > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I ran across this coach will surfing this morning.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I like it but I don't know anything about it's
> > history.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The link is listed below
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.staleycoach.com/48350.htm
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live
> > > Messenger. Get started!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Don Bradner]

As a long-time VMSpc user, I do not doubt that the 1 mpg increase was seen. The
problem is in ascribing a particular cause to the phenomenon, sort of like "I
have cancer, and I know it was because that crop-duster flew too close to my
house when I was 10 years old."

I routinely see 1 mpg or more difference in trip segments. Most commonly
West-to-East is better than East-to-West, because of prevailing winds, but also
due to wind anomalies and of course gradient direction. A good head wind can
knock a full mpg off, as a tail wind can add an mpg, for a difference of 2.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA
Hoping to head up the Oregon Coast tomorrow, and the forecast says I will have a
small tail wind

On 4/23/2008 at 3:06 PM mbulriss wrote:

>Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there is no
>way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic tranny
>fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.

[mbulriss]

Don,

I don't have that fancy VMSpc stuff. I have to do it the old fashion
way on each fill up, dividing miles by gallons with pencil or
calculator...... From what I read, I believe that you, Leroy and
others really like it, and it seems fairly accurate based on the posts
I have read.

Just out of curiosity, what has been your experience double-checking
the VMSpc box on mileage? I know my Jeep GC read-out on mpg isn't
even close. It's always waaaay optimistic by 3+mpg.

Thanks,

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> As a long-time VMSpc user, I do not doubt that the 1 mpg increase
was seen. The problem is in ascribing a particular cause to the
phenomenon, sort of like "I have cancer, and I know it was because
that crop-duster flew too close to my house when I was 10 years old."
>
> I routinely see 1 mpg or more difference in trip segments. Most
commonly West-to-East is better than East-to-West, because of
prevailing winds, but also due to wind anomalies and of course
gradient direction. A good head wind can knock a full mpg off, as a
tail wind can add an mpg, for a difference of 2.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Eureka, CA
> Hoping to head up the Oregon Coast tomorrow, and the forecast says I
will have a small tail wind
>
> On 4/23/2008 at 3:06 PM mbulriss wrote:
>
> >Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there is no
> >way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic tranny
> >fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
>

[Don Bradner]

Over the course of the 7K miles I've put on Blue Thunder so far, VMSpc runs
about 5.1 vs 5.3 measured by calculation. So, I always take a bit less fuel than
the "Tank Minder" on VMSpc says I will need, which is a good thing!

On 4/23/2008 at 3:38 PM mbulriss wrote:

>Don,
>
>I don't have that fancy VMSpc stuff. I have to do it the old fashion
>way on each fill up, dividing miles by gallons with pencil or
>calculator...... From what I read, I believe that you, Leroy and
>others really like it, and it seems fairly accurate based on the posts
>I have read.
>
>Just out of curiosity, what has been your experience double-checking
>the VMSpc box on mileage? I know my Jeep GC read-out on mpg isn't
>even close. It's always waaaay optimistic by 3+mpg.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Bulriss
>1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>>
>> As a long-time VMSpc user, I do not doubt that the 1 mpg increase
>was seen. The problem is in ascribing a particular cause to the
>phenomenon, sort of like "I have cancer, and I know it was because
>that crop-duster flew too close to my house when I was 10 years old."
>>
>> I routinely see 1 mpg or more difference in trip segments. Most
>commonly West-to-East is better than East-to-West, because of
>prevailing winds, but also due to wind anomalies and of course
>gradient direction. A good head wind can knock a full mpg off, as a
>tail wind can add an mpg, for a difference of 2.
>>
>> Don Bradner
>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>> Eureka, CA
>> Hoping to head up the Oregon Coast tomorrow, and the forecast says I
>will have a small tail wind
>>
>> On 4/23/2008 at 3:06 PM mbulriss wrote:
>>
>> >Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there is no
>> >way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic tranny
>> >fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Leroy Eckert]

I do not use mine on a regular basis. I use it on long trips and I used it to verify the accuracy of my coach gauges. I have found that my coach gauges are extremely accurate so I typically rely on them and do not bother plugging up the computer to the DDL. One less things the kids fingers can mess with. They can use the PSP.
My coach runs better fuel economy on average than does Don's. My most recent short trips were in the 5.8 range. Of course most of that is on flat land. Wind, mountains, your gross weight, the cruise speed you decide to use, and other factors cause mileage to vary, including generator usage which the VMSpc cannot measure.
So the mileage is what it is and probably will remain so. I am to the point that I do not get fired up about it any longer because I know I ain't gonna get 6.5. lol

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Roale Conversion

Don Bradner
wrote:

Over the course of the 7K miles I've put on Blue Thunder so far, VMSpc runs about 5.1 vs 5.3 measured by calculation. So, I always take a bit less fuel than the "Tank Minder" on VMSpc says I will need, which is a good thing!

On 4/23/2008 at 3:38 PM mbulriss wrote:

>Don,
>
>I don't have that fancy VMSpc stuff. I have to do it the old fashion
>way on each fill up, dividing miles by gallons with pencil or
>calculator...... From what I read, I believe that you, Leroy and
>others really like it, and it seems
fairly accurate based on the posts
>I have read.
>
>Just out of curiosity, what has been your experience double-checking
>the VMSpc box on mileage? I know my Jeep GC read-out on mpg isn't
>even close. It's always waaaay optimistic by 3+mpg.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Bulriss
>1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Don Bradner"
>...> wrote:
>>
>> As a long-time VMSpc user, I do not doubt that the 1 mpg increase
>was seen. The problem is in ascribing a particular cause to the
>phenomenon, sort of like "I have cancer, and I know it was because
>that crop-duster flew too close to my house when I was 10 years old."
>>
>> I routinely see 1 mpg or more difference in trip segments.
Most
>commonly West-to-East is better than East-to-West, because of
>prevailing winds, but also due to wind anomalies and of course
>gradient direction. A good head wind can knock a full mpg off, as a
>tail wind can add an mpg, for a difference of 2.
>>
>> Don Bradner
>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>> Eureka, CA
>> Hoping to head up the Oregon Coast tomorrow, and the forecast says I
>will have a small tail wind
>>
>> On 4/23/2008 at 3:06 PM mbulriss wrote:
>>
>> >Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there is no
>> >way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic tranny
>> >fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR...o8Wcj9tAcJ ] Try it now.[/url]

[bumpersbird]

Oh great Mike thanks for keeping me in the loop on this one.

All I can tell you is I spent $1,800.00 bucks to service my coach
with everything you can do to a 95 PT-42 with a series 60 and an
Allison 6 speed.

I haven't done the math by hand to determine mileage, but I always do
when I fill her up. The results to date on theVMSpc are very
accurate.

What is accurate is the coach is running better than ever, my
daughter even mentioned it to me on our way home last Sunday.

What isn't accurate are my coach gauges. I spent lots of time and $'S
trying to get them to function correctly and I finally gave up on
them. That's why I installed the Silverleaf VMSpc. Now I would not
drive without it. I'll go out on a limb here and say I would trust
the Detroit DDEC sooner than I would trust the old steam gauges.

An example the odometer on the coach, the odometer on the VMSpc and
the trip meter, have never reconciled with the same milage. The VMSpc
hour meter and the engine hour meter don't match. The only gauges I'm
sure are correct are the Speedo, Tach, and Volts. They read the same.

Oh, by the way, I'm busy fantasizing over better things than fuel
mileage


Kurt Horvath
95PT-42 WLWB





--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there is
no
> way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic tranny
> fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
>
> In that same vein then, Alvie can't possibly have clean oil in a
> diesel after 3,000 miles. Sorry, but synthetic users know that you
> need very good oil filters to keep it clean or you are just wasting
> money. Oil carries dirt, filters keep the oil clean.
>
> To read *facts*, go to:
> http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-
english/motoroil/other_products/mobil_1_extended_performance_oil_filte
rs.aspx
> and read their FAQs
>
> or the Donaldson filter site, they make filters, not oil:
> http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/lube/lube.html
> and
> http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/exten...index.html
>
> or even to the Amsoil filter site:
> https://www.amsoil.com/filtration/index.aspx#
>
> When you visit those three sites and look around, you will have
> visited the 3 best oil filter providers IMO. By the way, the
6V&8V92
> oil filter takes a Donaldson Endurance ELF7670 or a regular
P551670.
> Choose wisely.
>
> Yes, you can keep the oil clean for 3000 miles like Alvie claims,
but
> not with pleated paper filters.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm having a hard time believing your story of clear oil in the
8V92
> > after 3000 miles. The nature of the beast is to generate soot and
> > that is what turns the oil black. Show me some laboratory oil
> > analysis reports and I might believe you.
> >
> > We all tend to get the results we want.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "whynotam"
wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike and all,
> > >
> > > I apologize for starting this huge controversy but quite
frankly I
> > > think you are 100% correct in stating that oil technology has
> > > improved to the point where Detroit Diesels suggestions are way
> > > behind the times. I can only speak from personal experience as
I
> > > don't have the oil industry back ground that Mike does but due
to the
> > > fact that I have used synthetic lubricants for many years and
have
> > > had very good success is the reason that I went with Amsoil's
> > > recommendation to use the 15W40 in our 1993 8V92. The engine
oil
> > > consumption
> > > dropped from 1 quart every 200 miles to around 1 quart per 600
miles.
> > > With straight 40W Shell Rotella the oil was thin and black
within the
> > > first 500 miles but with the Amsoil it was still clear after
3000
> > > miles same as in my Duramax Chevy after 7500 miles. Exhaust
smoke was
> > > also considerably reduced on the 8V92. Use what you like but be
> > > assured there are definite advantages to the newer synthetic
> > > formulations. My genes also seem to still be working fine
> > >
> > > Best to all,
> > > Alvie Miller
> > > 1993 WLWB on Amsoil 15W40
> > > Arthur IL
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Alvie Miller - I rest my case!
> > > >
> > > > Pete, aren't you the same person that once said *ALL* DD
engines
> > > > require straight 40W? I also remember you later said jokingly
> > > > something like "you are an old guy and all real DDs are 2-
cycle" to
> > > you.
> > > >
> > > > I guess I'm pressing my luck by not having any lubrication
related
> > > > failures,... you know, having used Amsoil since 1979 in
general and
> > > in
> > > > my Birds since early 1997. Lots of other members are also
using
> > > Amsoil
> > > > and other synthetics in their Birds.
> > > >
> > > > I know DD updated their 93K124 document on "ENGINE
REQUIREMENTS —
> > > > LUBRICATING OIL, FUEL AND FILTERS" in 2005, but that update
was
> > > mainly
> > > > to update to reflect the newest API CI-4 rating. That
document is
> > > > almost entirely about the new series engines now and only
mentions
> > > the
> > > > older 2-cycles by re-printing what has always been there. In
their
> > > > defense, I can't imagine why DD would spend $$$$$$$$
certifying the
> > > > new breed of oils for an obsolete engine, but isn't it odd
that they
> > > > certify and recommend multi-weight synthetics and dino-based
oils
> > > for
> > > > the newer engines?
> > > >
> > > > Just for the record, all my DD manuals I have ever had always
said
> > > you
> > > > can use 15W-40 in colder climates, but recommend to change
back to
> > > > straight weight when temps rise to 'normal' again (above 40-
50F? I
> > > > think it was). Lubricating oils have come a long way from
when DD
> > > > started building the 2-cycles and was actively certifying
oils for
> > > > them. Multi-weight dino-based oils, circa 60s and 70s, did in
fact
> > > > break down incredibly fast when DD was actively building the
2-
> > > cycles
> > > > and actively certifying oils for them. Testing proved that
the
> > > > straight weight petroleum oils were much better back then for
shear
> > > > strength and thermal stability.
> > > >
> > > > Times change. The API standards have also evolved. The
synthetics
> > > > outperform petroleum based oils by a wide margin today. The
way I
> > > > understand it, the current generation of 15W-40 synthetics
pass all
> > > > requirements for the old straight weight petroleum 40.
(Note: Even
> > > > Mobil's Delvac 1 5W-40 is certified for the Series 60. And
anything
> > > > with 5W in it makes me shudder.)
> > > >
> > > > I compare the specs listed by DD against the actual specs of
the
> > > oil I
> > > > use. Since we are talking Amsoil here, they used to make a
> > > straight
> > > > 40-weight diesel oil. Demand dropped to nothing, API
standards
> > > > changed, and now it is the 15W-40. I called and talked with
their
> > > > engineers before I went to that. (As the old 2-cycles get
retired,
> > > and
> > > > the market for the old straight weight oils shrinks further,
fewer
> > > and
> > > > fewer companies will even supply a straight-weight 40.)
> > > >
> > > > If you look at thermal stability and high shear strength,
critical
> > > > measurements for oil protection, the DD literature says: "In
15W-40
> > > > grade oils, a HT/HS viscosity below 3.7 centipoise (cP)
indicates
> > > that
> > > > the oil will not perform as a 40 grade oil at engine operating
> > > > conditions." Amsoil's 15W-40 is measured at 4.4cP, well
above DD
> > > > minimum requirements. Checking DD Table 3.2 from their oil
spec for
> > > > 40W oil, the Amsoil 15W40 that Alvie mentioned meets all the
> > > Kinematic
> > > > Viscosity and the Viscosity Index requirements.
> > > >
> > > > Further, with the clean air acts and the decreases in sulfur
> > > > requirements it is becoming a lot harder for the petroleum
based
> > > > fluids to meet the TBN (Total Base Number) requirements of
the old
> > > > 2-cycles - which is listed at a range of 7-10 TBN from the
DD 40W
> > > > chart. Now TBN is really a case where bigger is better.
Amsoil's
> > > TBN
> > > > is 12.1 for their 15W-40. Total Base Number measures an oil's
> > > > alkalinity and ability to neutralize acid using lab testing
(ASTM D
> > > > 2896 or D 4739) - acid production is generally considered bad
for
> > > your
> > > > basic internal combustion engine.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, from the Amsoil web site:
> > > > AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is
recommended
> > > > for use in diesel engines and other applications requiring
any of
> > > the
> > > > listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines
requiring API
> > > SL,
> > > > SJ, SH or ACEA A3.
> > > >
> > > > * API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
> > > > * ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7
> > > > * Global DHD-1
> > > > * JASO DH-1
> > > > * Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
> > > > * DDC Power Guard 93K214
> > > > * Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2
> > > >
> > > > Now I suppose they could be lying in print, but they probably
have
> > > > lawyers to prevent them from doing that unless they actually
can
> > > prove
> > > > that they can meet those specs.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, didn't mean to bludgeon the subject. I just wanted
to set
> > > the
> > > > record straight. Newer doesn't mean bad. Otherwise the API,
SAE
> > > and
> > > > ASTM testing wouldn't keep evolving. In the old days, if we
got
> > > 100k
> > > > miles out of a car engine without a re-build it was
fantastic. Now
> > > > (with something at least resembling proper maintenance) people
> > > > regularly get upwards of 250k. I've never had a Suburban
with under
> > > > 300k when I got rid of it, and they were all running good.
Lots of
> > > > that is due strictly to lubrication advances.
> > > >
> > > > FWIW,
> > > >
> > > > Mike Bulriss - gene pool still functioning fine thank you
> > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"- 8V92 running that nasty old Amsoil
> > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, PM7088@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The gene pool of home mechanics is purified by folks who:
Use
> > > > Amsoil in 2 cycle diesels, install K&N air filters and/or
propane
> > > > injectors and or sill "Chips" that increase their horsepower
to the
> > > > point that pistons melt.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pete
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > From: brad barton <bbartonwx@>
> > > > > I always heard never to use anything but single-weight oil
on my
> > > > 8V92..never multigrade unless in a pinch.
> > > > > FWIW
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > From: aamiller@
> > > > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:41:17 +0000
> > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in
Nashville
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you like Amsoil also? I use the 15w40 heavy duty Marine
in the
> > > > > generator as well as the 8v92 and it is doing a great job.
I
> > > would
> > > > > like to also switch the transmission fluid but haven't got
it
> > > done
> > > > > yet. I also use Amsoil in the boys two BMW's, the wife's
van, my
> > > 05
> > > > > Duramax pickup and in the tractor and mowers as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > > 93 WLWB
> > > > > Arthur IL
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
<mbulriss@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the update. I'm going to change mine over to
the
> > > Amsoil
> > > > > > equivalent of the Transynd, since I can get that cheaper.
1MPG
> > > > > > increase is 20%!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minvan"
> > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I call Prevost and they told me it is Transynd by
Castrol.
> > > > > > > http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also had a level 3 service which replaces all
filters. In
> > > the
> > > > > > > Allison 6 speed I think there are 3 internal filters
and of
> > > > > course
> > > > > > > all oil, fuel and air filters. They greased everything
that
> > > could
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > grease and it also helped in the braking. I used to get
a
> > > noise
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the front brake that was called normal but it has now
quit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was told when I bought my coach that all the fluid &
> > > filters
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > been changed but I really don't know for sure. But it
did not
> > > > > perform
> > > > > > > like it does now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What I do know is that I'm up to 5.5 to 6 MPG from 4.5
to 4.8
> > > > > > > according to the SilverLeaf VMSpc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Call it what you like, it's working for me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's something to chew on. I don't know anything
about H2O
> > > > > helping
> > > > > > > your fuel mileage but I know Propane injection works.
On a
> > > trip
> > > > > last
> > > > > > > summer I was at a Flying J in S.W. KY. At the RV
island.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A trucker in a red and white Peterbuilt pulled in
behind me.
> > > I
> > > > > > > thought that to strange in itself, so I went back to
his
> > > truck to
> > > > > > > tell him I was going to be there a while for fuel and
> > > propane.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > He told me he was after propane. I asked why and he
said he
> > > had a
> > > > > > > truck with propane injection and the outfit he drove
for was
> > > > > testing
> > > > > > > the system on 20 or so trucks. I asked if it was
working and
> > > he
> > > > > > > professed almost 2.5 MPG up on average.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know the guy whom
works on
> > > my
> > > > > Ford
> > > > > > > Powerstroke has a propane fire diesel pick up that with
rip
> > > and
> > > > > > > snort, and he's getting better MPG than my truck gets
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
<mbulriss@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
really made
> > > a
> > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
smooth
> > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HELLO! 1MPG from tranny fluid change!? Hey Kurt, feel
free
> > > to
> > > > > > > > expound on the tranny fluid change. Synthetic I
assume? I
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > putting that change off for a while since the dino
tranny
> > > fluid
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > fresh, but for 1MPG.....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - in need of a quick cheap
1MPG
> > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well you can tell I've been off the web for a
while. My
> > > > > computers
> > > > > > > > > were infected by a Trojan virus late in Jan. It
took a
> > > while
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > new laptop to fix the problems. I lost a lot of
files and
> > > had
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > new credit cards. S.O.B.'s, "and I don't mean, Some
Other
> > > > > Bus" So
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > I repeat any request or post, or stuff you guys
have
> > > already
> > > > > > > beaten
> > > > > > > > > to death, forgive me.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike your right; I do recall seeing that coach
listed for
> > > a
> > > > > while
> > > > > > > > > now. If it's truly a good deal it won't stick
around for
> > > > > long.
> > > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > > > go by Staley's if I have time just to look at her.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Paul, The Indulgence is safe at home and ready for
this
> > > > > weekend's
> > > > > > > > > trip. I'm taking my daughter and 9 of her friends
to
> > > > > Nashville
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > their Senior Prom. Should be Hoot!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bye the way my coach is not for sale, I like all
Birds,
> > > but
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > PT-
> > > > > > > > > 42's are my favorite flavor, maybe a 43 would due
but I
> > > would
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > to a 40 footer of any mfg. Yes you're right I'm
spoiled!
> > > All
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > now is a Stacker Trailer that doesn't cost as much
as my
> > > > > coach,
> > > > > > > so I
> > > > > > > > > can load it up full of toys and its party time!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I had a full servicing done at Prevost Nashville a
few
> > > months
> > > > > ago
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > it was well worth the money. All new filters &
fluids,
> > > the
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > tranny
> > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
really made
> > > a
> > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
smooth
> > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > Jake is even smoother and not as radical, the
jerking
> > > upon
> > > > > > > activation
> > > > > > > > > has gone away. I'm a very happy camper. The brakes
were
> > > > > checked
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > wear and a full chassis lube, headlights adjusted
and new
> > > > > wiper
> > > > > > > > > blades. She is ready to roll.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Damn the price of fuel! Full speed ahead!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > > > > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Being rather partial to green coaches, I tend to
watch
> > > for
> > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > > > one looks really good in the pictures, but it has
been
> > > on
> > > > > > > > > consignment
> > > > > > > > > > on Staley's lot for a *long* time. I distinctly
> > > remember
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > (HEADLINER IN FRONT LOUNGE HAS DAMAGE AND NEEDS
TO BE
> > > > > REPAIRED)
> > > > > > > > > > comment. Odd there are no pictures of the damage.
As I
> > > > > recall,
> > > > > > > > > > someone went to see it and had posted a rather
negative
> > > > > > > review. I
> > > > > > > > > > searched for that post but can't find it right
now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If someone remembers that post or went to see the
> > > coach,
> > > > > please
> > > > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > > > us again.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (lot's of greeeeen,
baby)
> > > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I ran across this coach will surfing this
morning.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I like it but I don't know anything about it's
> > > history.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The link is listed below
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.staleycoach.com/48350.htm
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows
Live
> > > > Messenger. Get started!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Leroy Eckert]

A couple of ideas on your gauges. Mine work great and are very accurate as per my VMSpc.
Go to ww2.tflx.com and you may find the answer. Senders/sensors cannot be installed with pipe dope because it causes false readings. Make certain you have the correct sender because if a PO installed the wrong one for the gauge it will not register correctly. Find the main ground for the gauges probably in the lower load center and check the integrity.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

bumpersbird wrote:

Oh great Mike thanks for keeping me in the loop on this one.

All I can tell you is I spent $1,800.00 bucks to service my coach
with everything you can do to a 95 PT-42 with a series 60 and an
Allison 6 speed.

I haven't done the math by hand to determine mileage, but I always do
when I fill her up. The results to date on theVMSpc are very
accurate.

What is accurate is the coach is running better than ever, my
daughter even mentioned it to me on our way home last Sunday.

What isn't accurate are my coach gauges. I spent lots of time and $'S
trying to get them to function correctly and I finally gave up on
them. That's why I installed the Silverleaf VMSpc. Now I would not
drive without it. I'll go out on a limb here and say I would trust
the Detroit DDEC sooner than I would trust the old steam gauges.

An example the odometer on the coach, the odometer
on the VMSpc and
the trip meter, have never reconciled with the same milage. The VMSpc
hour meter and the engine hour meter don't match. The only gauges I'm
sure are correct are the Speedo, Tach, and Volts. They read the same.

Oh, by the way, I'm busy fantasizing over better things than fuel
mileage

Kurt Horvath
95PT-42 WLWB

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss" <mbulriss@..<wbr>.>
wrote:
>
> Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there is
no
> way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic tranny
> fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
>
> In that same vein then, Alvie can't possibly have clean oil in a
> diesel after 3,000 miles. Sorry, but synthetic users know that you
> need very good oil filters to keep it clean or you are just
wasting
> money. Oil carries dirt, filters keep the oil clean.
>
> To read *facts*, go to:
> http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-
english/motoroil/other_products/mobil_1_extended_performance_oil_filte
rs.aspx
> and read their FAQs
>
> or the Donaldson filter site, they make filters, not oil:
> http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/lube/lube.html
> and
> http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/extendedservice/index.html
>
> or even to the Amsoil filter site:
> https://www.amsoil.com/filtration/index.aspx#
>
> When you visit those three sites and look around, you
will have
> visited the 3 best oil filter providers IMO. By the way, the
6V&8V92
> oil filter takes a Donaldson Endurance ELF7670 or a regular
P551670.
> Choose wisely.
>
> Yes, you can keep the oil clean for 3000 miles like Alvie claims,
but
> not with pleated paper filters.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "ronmarabito2002"
> > wrote:
> >
> > I'm having a hard time believing your story of clear oil in the
8V92
> > after 3000 miles. The nature of the beast is to generate soot and
> > that is what turns the oil black. Show me some laboratory oil
> > analysis reports and I might believe you.
> >
> > We all tend to
get the results we want.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> >
> > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "whynotam"
wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike and all,
> > >
> > > I apologize for starting this huge controversy but quite
frankly I
> > > think you are 100% correct in stating that oil technology has
> > > improved to the point where Detroit Diesels suggestions are way
> > > behind the times. I can only speak from personal experience as
I
> > > don't have the oil industry back ground that Mike does but due
to the
> > > fact that I have used synthetic lubricants for many years and
have
> > > had very good success is the reason that I went with Amsoil's
> > >
recommendation to use the 15W40 in our 1993 8V92. The engine
oil
> > > consumption
> > > dropped from 1 quart every 200 miles to around 1 quart per 600
miles.
> > > With straight 40W Shell Rotella the oil was thin and black
within the
> > > first 500 miles but with the Amsoil it was still clear after
3000
> > > miles same as in my Duramax Chevy after 7500 miles. Exhaust
smoke was
> > > also considerably reduced on the 8V92. Use what you like but be
> > > assured there are definite advantages to the newer synthetic
> > > formulations. My genes also seem to still be working fine
> > >
> > > Best to all,
> > > Alvie Miller
> > > 1993 WLWB on Amsoil 15W40
> > > Arthur IL
> > >
> > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Alvie Miller - I rest my case!
> > > >
> > > > Pete, aren't you the same person that once said *ALL* DD
engines
> > > > require straight 40W? I also remember you later said jokingly
> > > > something like "you are an old guy and all real DDs are 2-
cycle" to
> > > you.
> > > >
> > > > I guess I'm pressing my luck by not having any lubrication
related
> > > > failures,... you know, having used Amsoil since 1979 in
general and
> > > in
> > > > my Birds since early 1997. Lots of other members are also
using
> > > Amsoil
> > > > and other synthetics in their
Birds.
> > > >
> > > > I know DD updated their 93K124 document on "ENGINE
REQUIREMENTS —
> > > > LUBRICATING OIL, FUEL AND FILTERS" in 2005, but that update
was
> > > mainly
> > > > to update to reflect the newest API CI-4 rating. That
document is
> > > > almost entirely about the new series engines now and only
mentions
> > > the
> > > > older 2-cycles by re-printing what has always been there. In
their
> > > > defense, I can't imagine why DD would spend $$$$$$$$
certifying the
> > > > new breed of oils for an obsolete engine, but isn't it odd
that they
> > > > certify and recommend multi-weight synthetics and dino-based
oils
> > > for
> > > > the newer engines?
> > > >
> > > > Just for the
record, all my DD manuals I have ever had always
said
> > > you
> > > > can use 15W-40 in colder climates, but recommend to change
back to
> > > > straight weight when temps rise to 'normal' again (above 40-
50F? I
> > > > think it was). Lubricating oils have come a long way from
when DD
> > > > started building the 2-cycles and was actively certifying
oils for
> > > > them. Multi-weight dino-based oils, circa 60s and 70s, did in
fact
> > > > break down incredibly fast when DD was actively building the
2-
> > > cycles
> > > > and actively certifying oils for them. Testing proved that
the
> > > > straight weight petroleum oils were much better back then for
shear
> > > > strength and thermal stability.
> > > >
> > > > Times
change. The API standards have also evolved. The
synthetics
> > > > outperform petroleum based oils by a wide margin today. The
way I
> > > > understand it, the current generation of 15W-40 synthetics
pass all
> > > > requirements for the old straight weight petroleum 40.
(Note: Even
> > > > Mobil's Delvac 1 5W-40 is certified for the Series 60. And
anything
> > > > with 5W in it makes me shudder.)
> > > >
> > > > I compare the specs listed by DD against the actual specs of
the
> > > oil I
> > > > use. Since we are talking Amsoil here, they used to make a
> > > straight
> > > > 40-weight diesel oil. Demand dropped to nothing, API
standards
> > > > changed, and now it is the 15W-40. I called and talked with
their
> > > >
engineers before I went to that. (As the old 2-cycles get
retired,
> > > and
> > > > the market for the old straight weight oils shrinks further,
fewer
> > > and
> > > > fewer companies will even supply a straight-weight 40.)
> > > >
> > > > If you look at thermal stability and high shear strength,
critical
> > > > measurements for oil protection, the DD literature says: "In
15W-40
> > > > grade oils, a HT/HS viscosity below 3.7 centipoise (cP)
indicates
> > > that
> > > > the oil will not perform as a 40 grade oil at engine operating
> > > > conditions." Amsoil's 15W-40 is measured at 4.4cP, well
above DD
> > > > minimum requirements. Checking DD Table 3.2 from their oil
spec for
> > > > 40W oil, the Amsoil 15W40 that Alvie mentioned
meets all the
> > > Kinematic
> > > > Viscosity and the Viscosity Index requirements.
> > > >
> > > > Further, with the clean air acts and the decreases in sulfur
> > > > requirements it is becoming a lot harder for the petroleum
based
> > > > fluids to meet the TBN (Total Base Number) requirements of
the old
> > > > 2-cycles - which is listed at a range of 7-10 TBN from the
DD 40W
> > > > chart. Now TBN is really a case where bigger is better.
Amsoil's
> > > TBN
> > > > is 12.1 for their 15W-40. Total Base Number measures an oil's
> > > > alkalinity and ability to neutralize acid using lab testing
(ASTM D
> > > > 2896 or D 4739) - acid production is generally considered bad
for
> > > your
> > > > basic internal combustion
engine.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, from the Amsoil web site:
> > > > AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is
recommended
> > > > for use in diesel engines and other applications requiring
any of
> > > the
> > > > listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines
requiring API
> > > SL,
> > > > SJ, SH… or ACEA A3.
> > > >
> > > > * API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
> > > > * ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7
> > > > * Global DHD-1
> > > > * JASO DH-1
> > > > * Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
> > > > * DDC Power Guard 93K214
> > > > * Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2
> > > >
> > > > Now I suppose they could be lying in print, but they probably
have

> > > > lawyers to prevent them from doing that unless they actually
can
> > > prove
> > > > that they can meet those specs.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, didn't mean to bludgeon the subject. I just wanted
to set
> > > the
> > > > record straight. Newer doesn't mean bad. Otherwise the API,
SAE
> > > and
> > > > ASTM testing wouldn't keep evolving. In the old days, if we
got
> > > 100k
> > > > miles out of a car engine without a re-build it was
fantastic. Now
> > > > (with something at least resembling proper maintenance) people
> > > > regularly get upwards of 250k. I've never had a Suburban
with under
> > > > 300k when I got rid of it, and they were all running good.
Lots of
> > > > that is due strictly to
lubrication advances.
> > > >
> > > > FWIW,
> > > >
> > > > Mike Bulriss - gene pool still functioning fine thank you
> > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"- 8V92 running that nasty old Amsoil
> > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", PM7088@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The gene pool of home mechanics is purified by folks who:
Use
> > > > Amsoil in 2 cycle diesels, install K&N air filters and/or
propane
> > > > injectors and or sill "Chips" that increase their horsepower
to the
> > > > point that pistons melt.
> > > > >
> > > > >
Pete
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > From: brad barton <bbartonwx@>
> > > > > I always heard never to use anything but single-weight oil
on my
> > > > 8V92..never multigrade unless in a pinch.
> > > > > FWIW
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > > From: aamiller@
> > > > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:41:17 +0000
> > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in
Nashville
> >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you like Amsoil also? I use the 15w40 heavy duty Marine
in the
> > > > > generator as well as the 8v92 and it is doing a great job.
I
> > > would
> > > > > like to also switch the transmission fluid but haven't got
it
> > > done
> > > > > yet. I also use Amsoil in the boys two BMW's, the wife's
van, my
> > > 05
> > > > > Duramax pickup and in the tractor and mowers as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > > 93 WLWB
> > > > > Arthur IL
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"

<mbulriss@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the update. I'm going to change mine over to
the
> > > Amsoil
> > > > > > equivalent of the Transynd, since I can get that cheaper.
1MPG
> > > > > > increase is 20%!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minvan"
> > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > Mike,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I call Prevost and they told me it is Transynd by
Castrol.
> > > > > > > http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also had a level 3 service which replaces all
filters. In
> > > the
> > > > > > > Allison 6 speed I think there are 3 internal filters
and of
> > > > > course
> > > > > > > all oil, fuel and air filters. They greased everything
that
> > > could
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > grease and it also helped in the braking. I used to get
a
> > > noise
> > > >
> from
> > > > > > > the front brake that was called normal but it has now
quit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was told when I bought my coach that all the fluid &
> > > filters
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > been changed but I really don't know for sure. But it
did not
> > > > > perform
> > > > > > > like it does now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What I do know is that I'm up to 5.5 to 6 MPG from 4.5
to 4.8
> > > > > > > according to the SilverLeaf VMSpc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Call it what you like, it's working for me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's something to chew on. I don't know
anything
about H2O
> > > > > helping
> > > > > > > your fuel mileage but I know Propane injection works.
On a
> > > trip
> > > > > last
> > > > > > > summer I was at a Flying J in S.W. KY. At the RV
island.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A trucker in a red and white Peterbuilt pulled in
behind me.
> > > I
> > > > > > > thought that to strange in itself, so I went back to
his
> > > truck to
> > > > > > > tell him I was going to be there a while for fuel and
> > > propane.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > He told me he was after propane. I asked why and he
said he
> > > had a
> > > > > > > truck with propane
injection and the outfit he drove
for was
> > > > > testing
> > > > > > > the system on 20 or so trucks. I asked if it was
working and
> > > he
> > > > > > > professed almost 2.5 MPG up on average.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know the guy whom
works on
> > > my
> > > > > Ford
> > > > > > > Powerstroke has a propane fire diesel pick up that with
rip
> > > and
> > > > > > > snort, and he's getting better MPG than my truck gets
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
<mbulriss@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
really made
> > > a
> > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
smooth
> > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> HELLO! 1MPG from tranny fluid change!? Hey Kurt, feel
free
> > > to
> > > > > > > > expound on the tranny fluid change. Synthetic I
assume? I
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > putting that change off for a while since the dino
tranny
> > > fluid
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > fresh, but for 1MPG.....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - in need of a quick cheap
1MPG
> > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well you can tell I've been off the web for a
while. My
> > > > > computers
> > > > > > > > > were infected by a Trojan virus late in Jan. It
took a
> > > while
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > new laptop to fix the problems. I lost a lot of
files and
> > > had
> > > > >
to
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > new credit cards. S.O.B.'s, "and I don't mean, Some
Other
> > > > > Bus" So
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > I repeat any request or post, or stuff you guys
have
> > > already
> > > > > > > beaten
> > > > > > > > > to death, forgive me.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike your right; I do recall seeing that coach
listed for
> > > a
> > > > > while
> > > > > > > > > now. If it's truly a good deal it won't stick
around for
> > > > > long.
> > > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > > > go by Staley's if I have
time just to look at her.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Paul, The Indulgence is safe at home and ready for
this
> > > > > weekend's
> > > > > > > > > trip. I'm taking my daughter and 9 of her friends
to
> > > > > Nashville
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > their Senior Prom. Should be Hoot!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bye the way my coach is not for sale, I like all
Birds,
> > > but
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > PT-
> > > > > > > > > 42's are my favorite flavor, maybe a 43 would due
but I
> > > would
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > to a 40 footer of any mfg. Yes you're right I'm
spoiled!
> > > All
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > now is a Stacker Trailer that doesn't cost as much
as my
> > > > > coach,
> > > > > > > so I
> > > > > > > > > can load it up full of toys and its party time!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I had a full servicing done at Prevost Nashville a
few
> > > months
> > > > > ago
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > it was well worth the money. All new filters &
fluids,
> > > the
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > tranny

> > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
really made
> > > a
> > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
smooth
> > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > Jake is even smoother and not as radical, the
jerking
> > > upon
> > > > > > > activation
> > > > > > > > > has gone away. I'm a very happy camper. The brakes
were
> > > > > checked
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > wear and a full chassis lube, headlights adjusted
and new
> > > > > wiper
> > > > > > > > > blades. She is ready to roll.
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Damn the price of fuel! Full speed ahead!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
> > > > > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Being rather partial to green coaches, I tend to
watch
> > > for
> >
> > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > > > one looks really good in the pictures, but it has
been
> > > on
> > > > > > > > > consignment
> > > > > > > > > > on Staley's lot for a *long* time. I distinctly
> > > remember
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > (HEADLINER IN FRONT LOUNGE HAS DAMAGE AND NEEDS
TO BE
> > > > > REPAIRED)
> > > > > > > > > > comment. Odd there are no pictures of the damage.
As I
> > > > > recall,
> > > > > > > > > > someone went to see it and had posted a rather
negative
> > > > > > > review. I
> > > > > > > > > > searched for
that post but can't find it right
now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If someone remembers that post or went to see the
> > > coach,
> > > > > please
> > > > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > > > us again.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (lot's of greeeeen,
baby)
> > > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I ran across this coach will surfing this
morning.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I like it but I don't know anything about it's
> > > history.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The link is listed below
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.staleycoach.com/48350.htm
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > >
> > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows
Live
> > > > Messenger. Get started!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR...o8Wcj9tAcJ ] Try it now.[/url]

[bumpersbird]

That was all done still malfunctioning.New gauges & senders/sensors
from BB second time bought from telflex direct third time from some
guy in Calif.
Kurt Horvath 95 Pt-42 WLWB

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert
wrote:
>
> A couple of ideas on your gauges. Mine work great and are very
accurate as per my VMSpc.
> Go to ww2.tflx.com and you may find the answer. Senders/sensors
cannot be installed with pipe dope because it causes false readings.
Make certain you have the correct sender because if a PO installed
the wrong one for the gauge it will not register correctly. Find the
main ground for the gauges probably in the lower load center and
check the integrity.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> bumpersbird wrote: Oh
great Mike thanks for keeping me in the loop on this one.
>
> All I can tell you is I spent $1,800.00 bucks to service my coach
> with everything you can do to a 95 PT-42 with a series 60 and an
> Allison 6 speed.
>
> I haven't done the math by hand to determine mileage, but I always
do
> when I fill her up. The results to date on theVMSpc are very
> accurate.
>
> What is accurate is the coach is running better than ever, my
> daughter even mentioned it to me on our way home last Sunday.
>
> What isn't accurate are my coach gauges. I spent lots of time and
$'S
> trying to get them to function correctly and I finally gave up on
> them. That's why I installed the Silverleaf VMSpc. Now I would not
> drive without it. I'll go out on a limb here and say I would trust
> the Detroit DDEC sooner than I would trust the old steam gauges.
>
> An example the odometer on the coach, the odometer on the VMSpc
and
> the trip meter, have never reconciled with the same milage. The
VMSpc
> hour meter and the engine hour meter don't match. The only gauges
I'm
> sure are correct are the Speedo, Tach, and Volts. They read the
same.
>
> Oh, by the way, I'm busy fantasizing over better things than fuel
> mileage
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95PT-42 WLWB
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there
is
> no
> > way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic
tranny
> > fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
> >
> > In that same vein then, Alvie can't possibly have clean oil in a
> > diesel after 3,000 miles. Sorry, but synthetic users know that
you
> > need very good oil filters to keep it clean or you are just
wasting
> > money. Oil carries dirt, filters keep the oil clean.
> >
> > To read *facts*, go to:
> > http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-
>
english/motoroil/other_products/mobil_1_extended_performance_oil_filte
> rs.aspx
> > and read their FAQs
> >
> > or the Donaldson filter site, they make filters, not oil:
> > http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/lube/lube.html
> > and
> > http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/exten...index.html
> >
> > or even to the Amsoil filter site:
> > https://www.amsoil.com/filtration/index.aspx#
> >
> > When you visit those three sites and look around, you will have
> > visited the 3 best oil filter providers IMO. By the way, the
> 6V&8V92
> > oil filter takes a Donaldson Endurance ELF7670 or a regular
> P551670.
> > Choose wisely.
> >
> > Yes, you can keep the oil clean for 3000 miles like Alvie
claims,
> but
> > not with pleated paper filters.
> >
> > Mike Bulriss
> > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > San Antonio, TX
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm having a hard time believing your story of clear oil in
the
> 8V92
> > > after 3000 miles. The nature of the beast is to generate soot
and
> > > that is what turns the oil black. Show me some laboratory oil
> > > analysis reports and I might believe you.
> > >
> > > We all tend to get the results we want.
> > >
> > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "whynotam"

> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike and all,
> > > >
> > > > I apologize for starting this huge controversy but quite
> frankly I
> > > > think you are 100% correct in stating that oil technology
has
> > > > improved to the point where Detroit Diesels suggestions are
way
> > > > behind the times. I can only speak from personal experience
as
> I
> > > > don't have the oil industry back ground that Mike does but
due
> to the
> > > > fact that I have used synthetic lubricants for many years
and
> have
> > > > had very good success is the reason that I went with
Amsoil's
> > > > recommendation to use the 15W40 in our 1993 8V92. The engine
> oil
> > > > consumption
> > > > dropped from 1 quart every 200 miles to around 1 quart per
600
> miles.
> > > > With straight 40W Shell Rotella the oil was thin and black
> within the
> > > > first 500 miles but with the Amsoil it was still clear after
> 3000
> > > > miles same as in my Duramax Chevy after 7500 miles. Exhaust
> smoke was
> > > > also considerably reduced on the 8V92. Use what you like but
be
> > > > assured there are definite advantages to the newer synthetic
> > > > formulations. My genes also seem to still be working fine
> > > >
> > > > Best to all,
> > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > 1993 WLWB on Amsoil 15W40
> > > > Arthur IL
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
<mbulriss@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Alvie Miller - I rest my case!
> > > > >
> > > > > Pete, aren't you the same person that once said *ALL* DD
> engines
> > > > > require straight 40W? I also remember you later said
jokingly
> > > > > something like "you are an old guy and all real DDs are 2-
> cycle" to
> > > > you.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess I'm pressing my luck by not having any lubrication
> related
> > > > > failures,... you know, having used Amsoil since 1979 in
> general and
> > > > in
> > > > > my Birds since early 1997. Lots of other members are also
> using
> > > > Amsoil
> > > > > and other synthetics in their Birds.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know DD updated their 93K124 document on "ENGINE
> REQUIREMENTS —
> > > > > LUBRICATING OIL, FUEL AND FILTERS" in 2005, but that
update
> was
> > > > mainly
> > > > > to update to reflect the newest API CI-4 rating. That
> document is
> > > > > almost entirely about the new series engines now and only
> mentions
> > > > the
> > > > > older 2-cycles by re-printing what has always been there.
In
> their
> > > > > defense, I can't imagine why DD would spend $$$$$$$$
> certifying the
> > > > > new breed of oils for an obsolete engine, but isn't it odd
> that they
> > > > > certify and recommend multi-weight synthetics and dino-
based
> oils
> > > > for
> > > > > the newer engines?
> > > > >
> > > > > Just for the record, all my DD manuals I have ever had
always
> said
> > > > you
> > > > > can use 15W-40 in colder climates, but recommend to change
> back to
> > > > > straight weight when temps rise to 'normal' again (above
40-
> 50F? I
> > > > > think it was). Lubricating oils have come a long way from
> when DD
> > > > > started building the 2-cycles and was actively certifying
> oils for
> > > > > them. Multi-weight dino-based oils, circa 60s and 70s, did
in
> fact
> > > > > break down incredibly fast when DD was actively building
the
> 2-
> > > > cycles
> > > > > and actively certifying oils for them. Testing proved
that
> the
> > > > > straight weight petroleum oils were much better back then
for
> shear
> > > > > strength and thermal stability.
> > > > >
> > > > > Times change. The API standards have also evolved. The
> synthetics
> > > > > outperform petroleum based oils by a wide margin today.
The
> way I
> > > > > understand it, the current generation of 15W-40 synthetics
> pass all
> > > > > requirements for the old straight weight petroleum 40.
> (Note: Even
> > > > > Mobil's Delvac 1 5W-40 is certified for the Series 60.
And
> anything
> > > > > with 5W in it makes me shudder.)
> > > > >
> > > > > I compare the specs listed by DD against the actual specs
of
> the
> > > > oil I
> > > > > use. Since we are talking Amsoil here, they used to make
a
> > > > straight
> > > > > 40-weight diesel oil. Demand dropped to nothing, API
> standards
> > > > > changed, and now it is the 15W-40. I called and talked
with
> their
> > > > > engineers before I went to that. (As the old 2-cycles get
> retired,
> > > > and
> > > > > the market for the old straight weight oils shrinks
further,
> fewer
> > > > and
> > > > > fewer companies will even supply a straight-weight 40.)
> > > > >
> > > > > If you look at thermal stability and high shear strength,
> critical
> > > > > measurements for oil protection, the DD literature
says: "In
> 15W-40
> > > > > grade oils, a HT/HS viscosity below 3.7 centipoise (cP)
> indicates
> > > > that
> > > > > the oil will not perform as a 40 grade oil at engine
operating
> > > > > conditions." Amsoil's 15W-40 is measured at 4.4cP, well
> above DD
> > > > > minimum requirements. Checking DD Table 3.2 from their
oil
> spec for
> > > > > 40W oil, the Amsoil 15W40 that Alvie mentioned meets all
the
> > > > Kinematic
> > > > > Viscosity and the Viscosity Index requirements.
> > > > >
> > > > > Further, with the clean air acts and the decreases in
sulfur
> > > > > requirements it is becoming a lot harder for the petroleum
> based
> > > > > fluids to meet the TBN (Total Base Number) requirements of
> the old
> > > > > 2-cycles - which is listed at a range of 7-10 TBN from
the
> DD 40W
> > > > > chart. Now TBN is really a case where bigger is better.
> Amsoil's
> > > > TBN
> > > > > is 12.1 for their 15W-40. Total Base Number measures an
oil's
> > > > > alkalinity and ability to neutralize acid using lab
testing
> (ASTM D
> > > > > 2896 or D 4739) - acid production is generally considered
bad
> for
> > > > your
> > > > > basic internal combustion engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, from the Amsoil web site:
> > > > > AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is
> recommended
> > > > > for use in diesel engines and other applications requiring
> any of
> > > > the
> > > > > listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines
> requiring API
> > > > SL,
> > > > > SJ, SH or ACEA A3.
> > > > >
> > > > > * API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
> > > > > * ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7
> > > > > * Global DHD-1
> > > > > * JASO DH-1
> > > > > * Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
> > > > > * DDC Power Guard 93K214
> > > > > * Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2
> > > > >
> > > > > Now I suppose they could be lying in print, but they
probably
> have
> > > > > lawyers to prevent them from doing that unless they
actually
> can
> > > > prove
> > > > > that they can meet those specs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, didn't mean to bludgeon the subject. I just
wanted
> to set
> > > > the
> > > > > record straight. Newer doesn't mean bad. Otherwise the
API,
> SAE
> > > > and
> > > > > ASTM testing wouldn't keep evolving. In the old days, if
we
> got
> > > > 100k
> > > > > miles out of a car engine without a re-build it was
> fantastic. Now
> > > > > (with something at least resembling proper maintenance)
people
> > > > > regularly get upwards of 250k. I've never had a Suburban
> with under
> > > > > 300k when I got rid of it, and they were all running
good.
> Lots of
> > > > > that is due strictly to lubrication advances.
> > > > >
> > > > > FWIW,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Bulriss - gene pool still functioning fine thank you
> > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"- 8V92 running that nasty old
Amsoil
> > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, PM7088@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The gene pool of home mechanics is purified by folks
who:
> Use
> > > > > Amsoil in 2 cycle diesels, install K&N air filters and/or
> propane
> > > > > injectors and or sill "Chips" that increase their
horsepower
> to the
> > > > > point that pistons melt.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pete
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > > From: brad barton <bbartonwx@>
> > > > > > I always heard never to use anything but single-weight
oil
> on my
> > > > > 8V92..never multigrade unless in a pinch.
> > > > > > FWIW
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > From: aamiller@
> > > > > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:41:17 +0000
> > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in
> Nashville
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you like Amsoil also? I use the 15w40 heavy duty
Marine
> in the
> > > > > > generator as well as the 8v92 and it is doing a great
job.
> I
> > > > would
> > > > > > like to also switch the transmission fluid but haven't
got
> it
> > > > done
> > > > > > yet. I also use Amsoil in the boys two BMW's, the wife's
> van, my
> > > > 05
> > > > > > Duramax pickup and in the tractor and mowers as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > > > 93 WLWB
> > > > > > Arthur IL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the update. I'm going to change mine over
to
> the
> > > > Amsoil
> > > > > > > equivalent of the Transynd, since I can get that
cheaper.
> 1MPG
> > > > > > > increase is 20%!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minvan"
> > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I call Prevost and they told me it is Transynd by
> Castrol.
> > > > > > > >
http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also had a level 3 service which replaces all
> filters. In
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Allison 6 speed I think there are 3 internal filters
> and of
> > > > > > course
> > > > > > > > all oil, fuel and air filters. They greased
everything
> that
> > > > could
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > grease and it also helped in the braking. I used to
get
> a
> > > > noise
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the front brake that was called normal but it has
now
> quit.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I was told when I bought my coach that all the fluid
&
> > > > filters
> > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > been changed but I really don't know for sure. But
it
> did not
> > > > > > perform
> > > > > > > > like it does now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I do know is that I'm up to 5.5 to 6 MPG from
4.5
> to 4.8
> > > > > > > > according to the SilverLeaf VMSpc.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Call it what you like, it's working for me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here's something to chew on. I don't know anything
> about H2O
> > > > > > helping
> > > > > > > > your fuel mileage but I know Propane injection
works.
> On a
> > > > trip
> > > > > > last
> > > > > > > > summer I was at a Flying J in S.W. KY. At the RV
> island.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A trucker in a red and white Peterbuilt pulled in
> behind me.
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > thought that to strange in itself, so I went back to
> his
> > > > truck to
> > > > > > > > tell him I was going to be there a while for fuel
and
> > > > propane.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He told me he was after propane. I asked why and he
> said he
> > > > had a
> > > > > > > > truck with propane injection and the outfit he drove
> for was
> > > > > > testing
> > > > > > > > the system on 20 or so trucks. I asked if it was
> working and
> > > > he
> > > > > > > > professed almost 2.5 MPG up on average.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know the guy whom
> works on
> > > > my
> > > > > > Ford
> > > > > > > > Powerstroke has a propane fire diesel pick up that
with
> rip
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > snort, and he's getting better MPG than my truck gets
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> <mbulriss@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
> really made
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
> smooth
> > > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > HELLO! 1MPG from tranny fluid change!? Hey Kurt,
feel
> free
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > expound on the tranny fluid change. Synthetic I
> assume? I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > putting that change off for a while since the dino
> tranny
> > > > fluid
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > fresh, but for 1MPG.....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - in need of a quick
cheap
> 1MPG
> > > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Well you can tell I've been off the web for a
> while. My
> > > > > > computers
> > > > > > > > > > were infected by a Trojan virus late in Jan. It
> took a
> > > > while
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > new laptop to fix the problems. I lost a lot of
> files and
> > > > had
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > new credit cards. S.O.B.'s, "and I don't mean,
Some
> Other
> > > > > > Bus" So
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > I repeat any request or post, or stuff you guys
> have
> > > > already
> > > > > > > > beaten
> > > > > > > > > > to death, forgive me.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mike your right; I do recall seeing that coach
> listed for
> > > > a
> > > > > > while
> > > > > > > > > > now. If it's truly a good deal it won't stick
> around for
> > > > > > long.
> > > > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > > > > go by Staley's if I have time just to look at
her.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Paul, The Indulgence is safe at home and ready
for
> this
> > > > > > weekend's
> > > > > > > > > > trip. I'm taking my daughter and 9 of her
friends
> to
> > > > > > Nashville
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > their Senior Prom. Should be Hoot!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bye the way my coach is not for sale, I like all
> Birds,
> > > > but
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > PT-
> > > > > > > > > > 42's are my favorite flavor, maybe a 43 would
due
> but I
> > > > would
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > to a 40 footer of any mfg. Yes you're right I'm
> spoiled!
> > > > All
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > now is a Stacker Trailer that doesn't cost as
much
> as my
> > > > > > coach,
> > > > > > > > so I
> > > > > > > > > > can load it up full of toys and its party time!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I had a full servicing done at Prevost Nashville
a
> few
> > > > months
> > > > > > ago
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > it was well worth the money. All new filters &
> fluids,
> > > > the
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > tranny
> > > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
> really made
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
> smooth
> > > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > Jake is even smoother and not as radical, the
> jerking
> > > > upon
> > > > > > > > activation
> > > > > > > > > > has gone away. I'm a very happy camper. The
brakes
> were
> > > > > > checked
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > wear and a full chassis lube, headlights
adjusted
> and new
> > > > > > wiper
> > > > > > > > > > blades. She is ready to roll.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Damn the price of fuel! Full speed ahead!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > > > > > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Being rather partial to green coaches, I tend
to
> watch
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > > > > one looks really good in the pictures, but it
has
> been
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > consignment
> > > > > > > > > > > on Staley's lot for a *long* time. I
distinctly
> > > > remember
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > (HEADLINER IN FRONT LOUNGE HAS DAMAGE AND
NEEDS
> TO BE
> > > > > > REPAIRED)
> > > > > > > > > > > comment. Odd there are no pictures of the
damage.
> As I
> > > > > > recall,
> > > > > > > > > > > someone went to see it and had posted a rather
> negative
> > > > > > > > review. I
> > > > > > > > > > > searched for that post but can't find it right
> now.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If someone remembers that post or went to see
the
> > > > coach,
> > > > > > please
> > > > > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > > > > us again.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (lot's of greeeeen,
> baby)
> > > > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I ran across this coach will surfing this
> morning.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I like it but I don't know anything about
it's
> > > > history.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The link is listed below
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.staleycoach.com/48350.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows
> Live
> > > > > Messenger. Get started!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Damn, that sucks! BB disease I guess.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

bumpersbird wrote:

That was all done still malfunctioning.New gauges & senders/sensors
from BB second time bought from telflex direct third time from some
guy in Calif.
Kurt Horvath 95 Pt-42 WLWB

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", Leroy Eckert
...> wrote:
>

> A couple of ideas on your gauges. Mine work great and are very
accurate as per my VMSpc.
> Go to ww2.tflx.com and you may find the answer. Senders/sensors
cannot be installed with pipe dope because it causes false readings.
Make certain you have the correct sender because if a PO installed
the wrong one for the gauge it will not register correctly. Find the
main ground for the gauges probably in the lower load center and
check the integrity.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> bumpersbird ...> wrote: Oh
great Mike thanks for keeping me in the loop on this one.
>
> All I can tell you is I spent $1,800.00 bucks to service my coach
> with everything you can do to a 95 PT-42 with a series 60 and an
> Allison 6 speed.
>
> I
haven't done the math by hand to determine mileage, but I always
do
> when I fill her up. The results to date on theVMSpc are very
> accurate.
>
> What is accurate is the coach is running better than ever, my
> daughter even mentioned it to me on our way home last Sunday.
>
> What isn't accurate are my coach gauges. I spent lots of time and
$'S
> trying to get them to function correctly and I finally gave up on
> them. That's why I installed the Silverleaf VMSpc. Now I would not
> drive without it. I'll go out on a limb here and say I would trust
> the Detroit DDEC sooner than I would trust the old steam gauges.
>
> An example the odometer on the coach, the odometer on the VMSpc
and
> the trip meter, have never reconciled with the same milage. The
VMSpc
> hour meter and the engine hour meter don't match. The only gauges

I'm
> sure are correct are the Speedo, Tach, and Volts. They read the
same.
>
> Oh, by the way, I'm busy fantasizing over better things than fuel
> mileage
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95PT-42 WLWB
>
> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there
is
> no
> > way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic
tranny
> > fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
> >
> > In that same vein then, Alvie can't possibly have clean oil in a
> > diesel after 3,000 miles. Sorry, but synthetic users know that
you
> > need very good oil filters to keep it clean or you are just
wasting
> >
money. Oil carries dirt, filters keep the oil clean.
> >
> > To read *facts*, go to:
> > http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-
>
english/motoroil/other_products/mobil_1_extended_performance_oil_filte
> rs.aspx
> > and read their FAQs
> >
> > or the Donaldson filter site, they make filters, not oil:
> > http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/lube/lube.html
> > and
> > http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/extendedservice/index.html
> >
> > or even to the Amsoil filter site:
> > https://www.amsoil.com/filtration/index.aspx#
> >
> > When you visit those three sites and look around, you will have
> > visited the 3 best oil filter providers IMO. By the way, the
> 6V&8V92
> > oil filter takes a Donaldson Endurance ELF7670 or a regular
> P551670.
> > Choose wisely.
> >
> > Yes, you can keep the oil clean for 3000 miles like Alvie
claims,
> but
> > not with pleated paper filters.
> >
> > Mike Bulriss
> > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > San Antonio, TX
> >
> >
> > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "ronmarabito2002"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm
having a hard time believing your story of clear oil in
the
> 8V92
> > > after 3000 miles. The nature of the beast is to generate soot
and
> > > that is what turns the oil black. Show me some laboratory oil
> > > analysis reports and I might believe you.
> > >
> > > We all tend to get the results we want.
> > >
> > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >
> > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "whynotam"

> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike and all,
> > > >
> > > > I apologize for starting this huge controversy but quite
> frankly I
> > > > think you are 100% correct in stating that oil technology
has
> >
> > improved to the point where Detroit Diesels suggestions are
way
> > > > behind the times. I can only speak from personal experience
as
> I
> > > > don't have the oil industry back ground that Mike does but
due
> to the
> > > > fact that I have used synthetic lubricants for many years
and
> have
> > > > had very good success is the reason that I went with
Amsoil's
> > > > recommendation to use the 15W40 in our 1993 8V92. The engine
> oil
> > > > consumption
> > > > dropped from 1 quart every 200 miles to around 1 quart per
600
> miles.
> > > > With straight 40W Shell Rotella the oil was thin and black
> within the
> > > > first 500 miles but with the Amsoil it was still clear after
> 3000
> > > >
miles same as in my Duramax Chevy after 7500 miles. Exhaust
> smoke was
> > > > also considerably reduced on the 8V92. Use what you like but
be
> > > > assured there are definite advantages to the newer synthetic
> > > > formulations. My genes also seem to still be working fine
> > > >
> > > > Best to all,
> > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > 1993 WLWB on Amsoil 15W40
> > > > Arthur IL
> > > >
> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
<mbulriss@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Alvie Miller - I rest my case!
> > > > >
> > > > > Pete, aren't you the same person that once said *ALL* DD
> engines
> > > > > require straight 40W? I also remember you later said
jokingly
> > > > > something like "you are an old guy and all real DDs are 2-
> cycle" to
> > > > you.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess I'm pressing my luck by not having any lubrication
> related
> > > > > failures,... you know, having used Amsoil since 1979 in
> general and
> > > > in
> > > > > my Birds since early 1997. Lots of other members are also
> using
> > > > Amsoil
> > > > > and other synthetics in their Birds.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know DD updated their 93K124 document on "ENGINE
> REQUIREMENTS —
> > > > > LUBRICATING OIL, FUEL AND FILTERS" in 2005, but that
update
> was
>
> > > mainly
> > > > > to update to reflect the newest API CI-4 rating. That
> document is
> > > > > almost entirely about the new series engines now and only
> mentions
> > > > the
> > > > > older 2-cycles by re-printing what has always been there.
In
> their
> > > > > defense, I can't imagine why DD would spend $$$$$$$$
> certifying the
> > > > > new breed of oils for an obsolete engine, but isn't it odd
> that they
> > > > > certify and recommend multi-weight synthetics and dino-
based
> oils
> > > > for
> > > > > the newer engines?
> > > > >
> > > > > Just for the record, all my DD manuals I have ever had
always
> said
> > > > you
> >
> > > can use 15W-40 in colder climates, but recommend to change
> back to
> > > > > straight weight when temps rise to 'normal' again (above
40-
> 50F? I
> > > > > think it was). Lubricating oils have come a long way from
> when DD
> > > > > started building the 2-cycles and was actively certifying
> oils for
> > > > > them. Multi-weight dino-based oils, circa 60s and 70s, did
in
> fact
> > > > > break down incredibly fast when DD was actively building
the
> 2-
> > > > cycles
> > > > > and actively certifying oils for them. Testing proved
that
> the
> > > > > straight weight petroleum oils were much better back then
for
> shear
> > > > > strength and thermal stability.
> > >
> >
> > > > > Times change. The API standards have also evolved. The
> synthetics
> > > > > outperform petroleum based oils by a wide margin today.
The
> way I
> > > > > understand it, the current generation of 15W-40 synthetics
> pass all
> > > > > requirements for the old straight weight petroleum 40.
> (Note: Even
> > > > > Mobil's Delvac 1 5W-40 is certified for the Series 60.
And
> anything
> > > > > with 5W in it makes me shudder.)
> > > > >
> > > > > I compare the specs listed by DD against the actual specs
of
> the
> > > > oil I
> > > > > use. Since we are talking Amsoil here, they used to make
a
> > > > straight
> > > > > 40-weight diesel oil. Demand dropped to nothing, API
> standards
> > > > > changed, and now it is the 15W-40. I called and talked
with
> their
> > > > > engineers before I went to that. (As the old 2-cycles get
> retired,
> > > > and
> > > > > the market for the old straight weight oils shrinks
further,
> fewer
> > > > and
> > > > > fewer companies will even supply a straight-weight 40.)
> > > > >
> > > > > If you look at thermal stability and high shear strength,
> critical
> > > > > measurements for oil protection, the DD literature
says: "In
> 15W-40
> > > > > grade oils, a HT/HS viscosity below 3.7 centipoise (cP)
> indicates
> > > > that
> > > > > the oil will not perform as a 40
grade oil at engine
operating
> > > > > conditions." Amsoil's 15W-40 is measured at 4.4cP, well
> above DD
> > > > > minimum requirements. Checking DD Table 3.2 from their
oil
> spec for
> > > > > 40W oil, the Amsoil 15W40 that Alvie mentioned meets all
the
> > > > Kinematic
> > > > > Viscosity and the Viscosity Index requirements.
> > > > >
> > > > > Further, with the clean air acts and the decreases in
sulfur
> > > > > requirements it is becoming a lot harder for the petroleum
> based
> > > > > fluids to meet the TBN (Total Base Number) requirements of
> the old
> > > > > 2-cycles - which is listed at a range of 7-10 TBN from
the
> DD 40W
> > > > > chart. Now TBN is really a case
where bigger is better.
> Amsoil's
> > > > TBN
> > > > > is 12.1 for their 15W-40. Total Base Number measures an
oil's
> > > > > alkalinity and ability to neutralize acid using lab
testing
> (ASTM D
> > > > > 2896 or D 4739) - acid production is generally considered
bad
> for
> > > > your
> > > > > basic internal combustion engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, from the Amsoil web site:
> > > > > AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is
> recommended
> > > > > for use in diesel engines and other applications requiring
> any of
> > > > the
> > > > > listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines
> requiring API
> > > > SL,

> > > > > SJ, SH… or ACEA A3.
> > > > >
> > > > > * API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
> > > > > * ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7
> > > > > * Global DHD-1
> > > > > * JASO DH-1
> > > > > * Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
> > > > > * DDC Power Guard 93K214
> > > > > * Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2
> > > > >
> > > > > Now I suppose they could be lying in print, but they
probably
> have
> > > > > lawyers to prevent them from doing that unless they
actually
> can
> > > > prove
> > > > > that they can meet those specs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, didn't mean to bludgeon the subject. I just
wanted
> to set
> > > > the
> > > > > record straight. Newer doesn't mean bad. Otherwise the
API,
> SAE
> > > > and
> > > > > ASTM testing wouldn't keep evolving. In the old days, if
we
> got
> > > > 100k
> > > > > miles out of a car engine without a re-build it was
> fantastic. Now
> > > > > (with something at least resembling proper maintenance)
people
> > > > > regularly get upwards of 250k. I've never had a Suburban
> with under
> > > > > 300k when I got rid of it, and they were all running
good.
> Lots of
> > > > > that is due strictly to lubrication advances.
> > > > >
> > > > > FWIW,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Bulriss - gene pool still functioning fine
thank you
> > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"- 8V92 running that nasty old
Amsoil
> > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", PM7088@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The gene pool of home mechanics is purified by folks
who:
> Use
> > > > > Amsoil in 2 cycle diesels, install K&N air filters and/or
> propane
> > > > > injectors and or sill "Chips" that increase their
horsepower
> to the
> > > > > point that pistons melt.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pete
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > > From: brad barton <bbartonwx@>
> > > > > > I always heard never to use anything but single-weight
oil
> on my
> > > > > 8V92..never multigrade unless in a pinch.
> > > > > > FWIW
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > > > From: aamiller@
> > > > > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:41:17 +0000
> > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum]
Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in
> Nashville
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you like Amsoil also? I use the 15w40 heavy duty
Marine
> in the
> > > > > > generator as well as the 8v92 and it is doing a great
job.
> I
> > > > would
> > > > > > like to also switch the transmission fluid but haven't
got
> it
> > > > done
> > > > > > yet. I also use Amsoil in the boys two BMW's, the wife's
> van, my
> > > > 05
> > > > > > Duramax pickup and in the tractor and mowers as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > > > 93 WLWB
> > > >
> > Arthur IL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
> <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the update. I'm going to change mine over
to
> the
> > > > Amsoil
> > > > > > > equivalent of the Transynd, since I can get that
cheaper.
> 1MPG
> > > > > > > increase is 20%!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minvan"
> > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I call Prevost and they told me it is Transynd by
> Castrol.
> > > > > > > >
http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also had a level 3 service which replaces all
> filters. In
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Allison 6 speed I
think there are 3 internal filters
> and of
> > > > > > course
> > > > > > > > all oil, fuel and air filters. They greased
everything
> that
> > > > could
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > grease and it also helped in the braking. I used to
get
> a
> > > > noise
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the front brake that was called normal but it has
now
> quit.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I was told when I bought my coach that all the fluid
&
> > > > filters
> > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > been changed but I really don't know for sure. But
it
> did not
> > > > >
> perform
> > > > > > > > like it does now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I do know is that I'm up to 5.5 to 6 MPG from
4.5
> to 4.8
> > > > > > > > according to the SilverLeaf VMSpc.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Call it what you like, it's working for me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here's something to chew on. I don't know anything
> about H2O
> > > > > > helping
> > > > > > > > your fuel mileage but I know Propane injection
works.
> On a
> > > > trip
> > > > > > last
> > > > > > > > summer I was at a Flying J in S.W. KY. At the RV
> island.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A trucker in a red and white Peterbuilt pulled in
> behind me.
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > thought that to strange in itself, so I went back to
> his
> > > > truck to
> > > > > > > > tell him I was going to be there a while for fuel
and
> > > > propane.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He told me he was after propane. I asked why and he
> said he
> > > > had a
> > > > > > > > truck with propane injection and the outfit he drove
> for was
> > > > > > testing
> > > > > > > > the system on 20 or so trucks. I asked if it was
> working and
> > > > he
> > > > > > > > professed almost 2.5 MPG up on average.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know the guy whom
> works on
> > > > my
> > > > > > Ford
> > > > > > > > Powerstroke has a propane fire diesel pick up that
with
> rip
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > snort, and he's getting better MPG than my truck gets
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
> <mbulriss@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In
"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
> really made
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
> smooth
> > > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > HELLO! 1MPG from tranny fluid change!? Hey Kurt,
feel
> free
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > expound on the tranny fluid change. Synthetic I
> assume? I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > putting that change off for a while since the dino
> tranny
> > > > fluid
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > fresh, but for 1MPG.....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - in need of a quick
cheap

> 1MPG
> > > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In
"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Well you can tell I've been off the web for a
> while. My
> > > > > > computers
> > > > > > > > > > were infected by a Trojan virus late in Jan. It
> took a
> > > > while
> > >
> > > and
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > new laptop to fix the problems. I lost a lot of
> files and
> > > > had
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > new credit cards. S.O.B.'s, "and I don't mean,
Some
> Other
> > > > > > Bus" So
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > I repeat any request or post, or stuff you guys
> have
> > > > already
> > > > > > > > beaten
> > > > > > > > > > to death, forgive me.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mike your right; I do recall seeing that coach
> listed for
> > > > a
> > > > > > while
> > > > > > > > > > now. If it's truly a good deal it won't stick
> around for
> > > > > > long.
> > > > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > > > > go by Staley's if I have time just to look at
her.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Paul, The Indulgence is safe at home and ready
for
> this
> > > > > > weekend's
> > > > > > > > > > trip. I'm taking my daughter and 9 of her
friends
> to
> > > > > > Nashville
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > their Senior Prom. Should be Hoot!
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bye the way my coach is not for sale, I like all
> Birds,
> > > > but
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > PT-
> > > > > > > > > > 42's are my favorite flavor, maybe a 43 would
due
> but I
> > > > would
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > to a 40 footer of any mfg. Yes you're right I'm
> spoiled!
> > > > All
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > now is a Stacker Trailer that doesn't cost as
much
> as my
> > > > > > coach,
> > > > > > > > so I
> > > > > > > > > > can load it up full of toys and its party time!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I had a full servicing done at Prevost Nashville
a
> few
> > > > months
> > > > > > ago
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > it was well worth the money. All new filters &
> fluids,
> > > > the
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > tranny
> > > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
> really made
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
> smooth
> > > > > > shifting.
> > >
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > Jake is even smoother and not as radical, the
> jerking
> > > > upon
> > > > > > > > activation
> > > > > > > > > > has gone away. I'm a very happy camper. The
brakes
> were
> > > > > > checked
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > wear and a full chassis lube, headlights
adjusted
> and new
> > > > > > wiper
> > > > > > > > > > blades. She is ready to roll.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Damn the price of fuel! Full speed ahead!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
> > > > > > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Being rather partial to green coaches, I tend
to
> watch
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > >
That
> > > > > > > > > > > one looks really good in the pictures, but it
has
> been
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > consignment
> > > > > > > > > > > on Staley's lot for a *long* time. I
distinctly
> > > > remember
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > (HEADLINER IN FRONT LOUNGE HAS DAMAGE AND
NEEDS
> TO BE
> > > > > > REPAIRED)
> > > > > > > > > > > comment. Odd there are no pictures of the
damage.
> As I
> > > > > > recall,
> > > > > > > > > > > someone went to see it and had posted a rather
> negative
> > > > > > > > review. I
> > > > >
> > > > > > searched for that post but can't find it right
> now.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If someone remembers that post or went to see
the
> > > > coach,
> > > > > > please
> > > > > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > > > > us again.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (lot's of greeeeen,
> baby)
> > > > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> --- In
> "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I ran across this coach will surfing this
> morning.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I like it but I don't know anything about
it's
> > > > history.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The link is listed below
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.staleycoach.com/48350.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows
> Live
> > > > >
Messenger. Get started!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR...o8Wcj9tAcJ ] Try it now.[/url]

[bumpersbird]

Hey it's all good Leroy. If I could keep the traditional BB dash and
make it all glass I would. One of the future projects I'm
fantasizing over.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42
Fayettville TN


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert
wrote:
>
> Damn, that sucks! BB disease I guess.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> bumpersbird wrote:
That was all done still malfunctioning.New gauges & senders/sensors
> from BB second time bought from telflex direct third time from
some
> guy in Calif.
> Kurt Horvath 95 Pt-42 WLWB
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert
> wrote:
> >
> > A couple of ideas on your gauges. Mine work great and are very
> accurate as per my VMSpc.
> > Go to ww2.tflx.com and you may find the answer. Senders/sensors
> cannot be installed with pipe dope because it causes false
readings.
> Make certain you have the correct sender because if a PO installed
> the wrong one for the gauge it will not register correctly. Find
the
> main ground for the gauges probably in the lower load center and
> check the integrity.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> > Dahlonega, GA
> > Royale Conversion
> >
> > bumpersbird wrote: Oh
> great Mike thanks for keeping me in the loop on this one.
> >
> > All I can tell you is I spent $1,800.00 bucks to service my
coach
> > with everything you can do to a 95 PT-42 with a series 60 and
an
> > Allison 6 speed.
> >
> > I haven't done the math by hand to determine mileage, but I
always
> do
> > when I fill her up. The results to date on theVMSpc are very
> > accurate.
> >
> > What is accurate is the coach is running better than ever, my
> > daughter even mentioned it to me on our way home last Sunday.
> >
> > What isn't accurate are my coach gauges. I spent lots of time
and
> $'S
> > trying to get them to function correctly and I finally gave up
on
> > them. That's why I installed the Silverleaf VMSpc. Now I would
not
> > drive without it. I'll go out on a limb here and say I would
trust
> > the Detroit DDEC sooner than I would trust the old steam
gauges.
> >
> > An example the odometer on the coach, the odometer on the VMSpc
> and
> > the trip meter, have never reconciled with the same milage. The
> VMSpc
> > hour meter and the engine hour meter don't match. The only
gauges
> I'm
> > sure are correct are the Speedo, Tach, and Volts. They read the
> same.
> >
> > Oh, by the way, I'm busy fantasizing over better things than
fuel
> > mileage
> >
> > Kurt Horvath
> > 95PT-42 WLWB
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then
there
> is
> > no
> > > way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic
> tranny
> > > fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
> > >
> > > In that same vein then, Alvie can't possibly have clean oil
in a
> > > diesel after 3,000 miles. Sorry, but synthetic users know
that
> you
> > > need very good oil filters to keep it clean or you are just
> wasting
> > > money. Oil carries dirt, filters keep the oil clean.
> > >
> > > To read *facts*, go to:
> > > http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-
> >
>
english/motoroil/other_products/mobil_1_extended_performance_oil_filte
> > rs.aspx
> > > and read their FAQs
> > >
> > > or the Donaldson filter site, they make filters, not oil:
> > > http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/lube/lube.html
> > > and
> > > http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/exten...index.html
> > >
> > > or even to the Amsoil filter site:
> > > https://www.amsoil.com/filtration/index.aspx#
> > >
> > > When you visit those three sites and look around, you will
have
> > > visited the 3 best oil filter providers IMO. By the way, the
> > 6V&8V92
> > > oil filter takes a Donaldson Endurance ELF7670 or a regular
> > P551670.
> > > Choose wisely.
> > >
> > > Yes, you can keep the oil clean for 3000 miles like Alvie
> claims,
> > but
> > > not with pleated paper filters.
> > >
> > > Mike Bulriss
> > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > San Antonio, TX
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm having a hard time believing your story of clear oil in
> the
> > 8V92
> > > > after 3000 miles. The nature of the beast is to generate
soot
> and
> > > > that is what turns the oil black. Show me some laboratory
oil
> > > > analysis reports and I might believe you.
> > > >
> > > > We all tend to get the results we want.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "whynotam"
>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike and all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I apologize for starting this huge controversy but
quite
> > frankly I
> > > > > think you are 100% correct in stating that oil technology
> has
> > > > > improved to the point where Detroit Diesels suggestions
are
> way
> > > > > behind the times. I can only speak from personal
experience
> as
> > I
> > > > > don't have the oil industry back ground that Mike does
but
> due
> > to the
> > > > > fact that I have used synthetic lubricants for many years
> and
> > have
> > > > > had very good success is the reason that I went with
> Amsoil's
> > > > > recommendation to use the 15W40 in our 1993 8V92. The
engine
> > oil
> > > > > consumption
> > > > > dropped from 1 quart every 200 miles to around 1 quart
per
> 600
> > miles.
> > > > > With straight 40W Shell Rotella the oil was thin and
black
> > within the
> > > > > first 500 miles but with the Amsoil it was still clear
after
> > 3000
> > > > > miles same as in my Duramax Chevy after 7500 miles.
Exhaust
> > smoke was
> > > > > also considerably reduced on the 8V92. Use what you like
but
> be
> > > > > assured there are definite advantages to the newer
synthetic
> > > > > formulations. My genes also seem to still be working
fine
> > > > >
> > > > > Best to all,
> > > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > > 1993 WLWB on Amsoil 15W40
> > > > > Arthur IL
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> <mbulriss@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Alvie Miller - I rest my case!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pete, aren't you the same person that once said *ALL*
DD
> > engines
> > > > > > require straight 40W? I also remember you later said
> jokingly
> > > > > > something like "you are an old guy and all real DDs are
2-
> > cycle" to
> > > > > you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess I'm pressing my luck by not having any
lubrication
> > related
> > > > > > failures,... you know, having used Amsoil since 1979 in
> > general and
> > > > > in
> > > > > > my Birds since early 1997. Lots of other members are
also
> > using
> > > > > Amsoil
> > > > > > and other synthetics in their Birds.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know DD updated their 93K124 document on "ENGINE
> > REQUIREMENTS â€"
> > > > > > LUBRICATING OIL, FUEL AND FILTERS" in 2005, but that
> update
> > was
> > > > > mainly
> > > > > > to update to reflect the newest API CI-4 rating. That
> > document is
> > > > > > almost entirely about the new series engines now and
only
> > mentions
> > > > > the
> > > > > > older 2-cycles by re-printing what has always been
there.
> In
> > their
> > > > > > defense, I can't imagine why DD would spend $$$$$$$$
> > certifying the
> > > > > > new breed of oils for an obsolete engine, but isn't it
odd
> > that they
> > > > > > certify and recommend multi-weight synthetics and dino-
> based
> > oils
> > > > > for
> > > > > > the newer engines?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just for the record, all my DD manuals I have ever had
> always
> > said
> > > > > you
> > > > > > can use 15W-40 in colder climates, but recommend to
change
> > back to
> > > > > > straight weight when temps rise to 'normal' again
(above
> 40-
> > 50F? I
> > > > > > think it was). Lubricating oils have come a long way
from
> > when DD
> > > > > > started building the 2-cycles and was actively
certifying
> > oils for
> > > > > > them. Multi-weight dino-based oils, circa 60s and 70s,
did
> in
> > fact
> > > > > > break down incredibly fast when DD was actively
building
> the
> > 2-
> > > > > cycles
> > > > > > and actively certifying oils for them. Testing proved
> that
> > the
> > > > > > straight weight petroleum oils were much better back
then
> for
> > shear
> > > > > > strength and thermal stability.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Times change. The API standards have also evolved.
The
> > synthetics
> > > > > > outperform petroleum based oils by a wide margin
today.
> The
> > way I
> > > > > > understand it, the current generation of 15W-40
synthetics
> > pass all
> > > > > > requirements for the old straight weight petroleum 40.
> > (Note: Even
> > > > > > Mobil's Delvac 1 5W-40 is certified for the Series 60.
> And
> > anything
> > > > > > with 5W in it makes me shudder.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I compare the specs listed by DD against the actual
specs
> of
> > the
> > > > > oil I
> > > > > > use. Since we are talking Amsoil here, they used to
make
> a
> > > > > straight
> > > > > > 40-weight diesel oil. Demand dropped to nothing, API
> > standards
> > > > > > changed, and now it is the 15W-40. I called and talked
> with
> > their
> > > > > > engineers before I went to that. (As the old 2-cycles
get
> > retired,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > the market for the old straight weight oils shrinks
> further,
> > fewer
> > > > > and
> > > > > > fewer companies will even supply a straight-weight 40.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you look at thermal stability and high shear
strength,
> > critical
> > > > > > measurements for oil protection, the DD literature
> says: "In
> > 15W-40
> > > > > > grade oils, a HT/HS viscosity below 3.7 centipoise (cP)
> > indicates
> > > > > that
> > > > > > the oil will not perform as a 40 grade oil at engine
> operating
> > > > > > conditions." Amsoil's 15W-40 is measured at 4.4cP,
well
> > above DD
> > > > > > minimum requirements. Checking DD Table 3.2 from their
> oil
> > spec for
> > > > > > 40W oil, the Amsoil 15W40 that Alvie mentioned meets
all
> the
> > > > > Kinematic
> > > > > > Viscosity and the Viscosity Index requirements.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Further, with the clean air acts and the decreases in
> sulfur
> > > > > > requirements it is becoming a lot harder for the
petroleum
> > based
> > > > > > fluids to meet the TBN (Total Base Number) requirements
of
> > the old
> > > > > > 2-cycles - which is listed at a range of 7-10 TBN from
> the
> > DD 40W
> > > > > > chart. Now TBN is really a case where bigger is
better.
> > Amsoil's
> > > > > TBN
> > > > > > is 12.1 for their 15W-40. Total Base Number measures
an
> oil's
> > > > > > alkalinity and ability to neutralize acid using lab
> testing
> > (ASTM D
> > > > > > 2896 or D 4739) - acid production is generally
considered
> bad
> > for
> > > > > your
> > > > > > basic internal combustion engine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Finally, from the Amsoil web site:
> > > > > > AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil
is
> > recommended
> > > > > > for use in diesel engines and other applications
requiring
> > any of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines
> > requiring API
> > > > > SL,
> > > > > > SJ, SH… or ACEA A3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
> > > > > > * ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7
> > > > > > * Global DHD-1
> > > > > > * JASO DH-1
> > > > > > * Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
> > > > > > * DDC Power Guard 93K214
> > > > > > * Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now I suppose they could be lying in print, but they
> probably
> > have
> > > > > > lawyers to prevent them from doing that unless they
> actually
> > can
> > > > > prove
> > > > > > that they can meet those specs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, didn't mean to bludgeon the subject. I just
> wanted
> > to set
> > > > > the
> > > > > > record straight. Newer doesn't mean bad. Otherwise
the
> API,
> > SAE
> > > > > and
> > > > > > ASTM testing wouldn't keep evolving. In the old days,
if
> we
> > got
> > > > > 100k
> > > > > > miles out of a car engine without a re-build it was
> > fantastic. Now
> > > > > > (with something at least resembling proper maintenance)
> people
> > > > > > regularly get upwards of 250k. I've never had a
Suburban
> > with under
> > > > > > 300k when I got rid of it, and they were all running
> good.
> > Lots of
> > > > > > that is due strictly to lubrication advances.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > FWIW,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Bulriss - gene pool still functioning fine thank
you
> > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"- 8V92 running that nasty old
> Amsoil
> > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, PM7088@ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The gene pool of home mechanics is purified by folks
> who:
> > Use
> > > > > > Amsoil in 2 cycle diesels, install K&N air filters
and/or
> > propane
> > > > > > injectors and or sill "Chips" that increase their
> horsepower
> > to the
> > > > > > point that pistons melt.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pete
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > > > From: brad barton <bbartonwx@>
> > > > > > > I always heard never to use anything but single-
weight
> oil
> > on my
> > > > > > 8V92..never multigrade unless in a pinch.
> > > > > > > FWIW
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > From: aamiller@
> > > > > > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:41:17 +0000
> > > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in
> > Nashville
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you like Amsoil also? I use the 15w40 heavy duty
> Marine
> > in the
> > > > > > > generator as well as the 8v92 and it is doing a great
> job.
> > I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > like to also switch the transmission fluid but
haven't
> got
> > it
> > > > > done
> > > > > > > yet. I also use Amsoil in the boys two BMW's, the
wife's
> > van, my
> > > > > 05
> > > > > > > Duramax pickup and in the tractor and mowers as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > > > > 93 WLWB
> > > > > > > Arthur IL
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for the update. I'm going to change mine
over
> to
> > the
> > > > > Amsoil
> > > > > > > > equivalent of the Transynd, since I can get that
> cheaper.
> > 1MPG
> > > > > > > > increase is 20%!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minvan"
> > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I call Prevost and they told me it is Transynd by
> > Castrol.
> > > > > > > > >
> http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also had a level 3 service which replaces all
> > filters. In
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Allison 6 speed I think there are 3 internal
filters
> > and of
> > > > > > > course
> > > > > > > > > all oil, fuel and air filters. They greased
> everything
> > that
> > > > > could
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > grease and it also helped in the braking. I used
to
> get
> > a
> > > > > noise
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the front brake that was called normal but it has
> now
> > quit.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I was told when I bought my coach that all the
fluid
> &
> > > > > filters
> > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > been changed but I really don't know for sure.
But
> it
> > did not
> > > > > > > perform
> > > > > > > > > like it does now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What I do know is that I'm up to 5.5 to 6 MPG
from
> 4.5
> > to 4.8
> > > > > > > > > according to the SilverLeaf VMSpc.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Call it what you like, it's working for me.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Here's something to chew on. I don't know
anything
> > about H2O
> > > > > > > helping
> > > > > > > > > your fuel mileage but I know Propane injection
> works.
> > On a
> > > > > trip
> > > > > > > last
> > > > > > > > > summer I was at a Flying J in S.W. KY. At the RV
> > island.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A trucker in a red and white Peterbuilt pulled in
> > behind me.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > thought that to strange in itself, so I went back
to
> > his
> > > > > truck to
> > > > > > > > > tell him I was going to be there a while for fuel
> and
> > > > > propane.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > He told me he was after propane. I asked why and
he
> > said he
> > > > > had a
> > > > > > > > > truck with propane injection and the outfit he
drove
> > for was
> > > > > > > testing
> > > > > > > > > the system on 20 or so trucks. I asked if it was
> > working and
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > > > professed almost 2.5 MPG up on average.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know the guy
whom
> > works on
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > Ford
> > > > > > > > > Powerstroke has a propane fire diesel pick up
that
> with
> > rip
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > snort, and he's getting better MPG than my truck
gets
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
> > really made
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
> > smooth
> > > > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > HELLO! 1MPG from tranny fluid change!? Hey
Kurt,
> feel
> > free
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > expound on the tranny fluid change. Synthetic I
> > assume? I
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > putting that change off for a while since the
dino
> > tranny
> > > > > fluid
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > fresh, but for 1MPG.....
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - in need of a quick
> cheap
> > 1MPG
> > > > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Well you can tell I've been off the web for a
> > while. My
> > > > > > > computers
> > > > > > > > > > > were infected by a Trojan virus late in Jan.
It
> > took a
> > > > > while
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > new laptop to fix the problems. I lost a lot
of
> > files and
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > > new credit cards. S.O.B.'s, "and I don't
mean,
> Some
> > Other
> > > > > > > Bus" So
> > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > > I repeat any request or post, or stuff you
guys
> > have
> > > > > already
> > > > > > > > > beaten
> > > > > > > > > > > to death, forgive me.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Mike your right; I do recall seeing that
coach
> > listed for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > while
> > > > > > > > > > > now. If it's truly a good deal it won't stick
> > around for
> > > > > > > long.
> > > > > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > > > > > go by Staley's if I have time just to look at
> her.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Paul, The Indulgence is safe at home and
ready
> for
> > this
> > > > > > > weekend's
> > > > > > > > > > > trip. I'm taking my daughter and 9 of her
> friends
> > to
> > > > > > > Nashville
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > their Senior Prom. Should be Hoot!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Bye the way my coach is not for sale, I like
all
> > Birds,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > PT-
> > > > > > > > > > > 42's are my favorite flavor, maybe a 43 would
> due
> > but I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > > to a 40 footer of any mfg. Yes you're right
I'm
> > spoiled!
> > > > > All
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > > now is a Stacker Trailer that doesn't cost as
> much
> > as my
> > > > > > > coach,
> > > > > > > > > so I
> > > > > > > > > > > can load it up full of toys and its party
time!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I had a full servicing done at Prevost
Nashville
> a
> > few
> > > > > months
> > > > > > > ago
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > it was well worth the money. All new filters
&
> > fluids,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > tranny
> > > > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
> > really made
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
> > smooth
> > > > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > Jake is even smoother and not as radical, the
> > jerking
> > > > > upon
> > > > > > > > > activation
> > > > > > > > > > > has gone away. I'm a very happy camper. The
> brakes
> > were
> > > > > > > checked
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > wear and a full chassis lube, headlights
> adjusted
> > and new
> > > > > > > wiper
> > > > > > > > > > > blades. She is ready to roll.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Damn the price of fuel! Full speed ahead!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > > > > > > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Being rather partial to green coaches, I
tend
> to
> > watch
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > > > > > one looks really good in the pictures, but
it
> has
> > been
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > consignment
> > > > > > > > > > > > on Staley's lot for a *long* time. I
> distinctly
> > > > > remember
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > (HEADLINER IN FRONT LOUNGE HAS DAMAGE AND
> NEEDS
> > TO BE
> > > > > > > REPAIRED)
> > > > > > > > > > > > comment. Odd there are no pictures of the
> damage.
> > As I
> > > > > > > recall,
> > > > > > > > > > > > someone went to see it and had posted a
rather
> > negative
> > > > > > > > > review. I
> > > > > > > > > > > > searched for that post but can't find it
right
> > now.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If someone remembers that post or went to
see
> the
> > > > > coach,
> > > > > > > please
> > > > > > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > > > > > us again.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (lot's of
greeeeen,
> > baby)
> > > > > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I ran across this coach will surfing this
> > morning.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I like it but I don't know anything about
> it's
> > > > > history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The link is listed below
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.staleycoach.com/48350.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with
Windows
> > Live
> > > > > > Messenger. Get started!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile.
> Try it now.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>