Removing the Power Steering Gearbox, 78 FC33; 3208

[Dan]

Has anyone out there been brave enough to R&R the PS gearbox? If so,
I'd like to hear the removal procedure / sequence.

Thanks,

Danny
FC33 1978
San Jose, CA

[Tom Warner]

When I see a comment like this Danny I wonder what is motivating the
person to even want to remove the gearbox? Have you, or a
professional that understands completely the front suspension of the
Bluebird carefully inspected the suspension and made absolutely sure
that the gearbox is even part of the problem? You can end up causing
more problems then you resolve if you do not know how to properly
troubleshoot possible defects in the bluebird.

Do you have the manufacturers technical information on the front
suspension including the gearbox? If you dont I have it to share with
you off forum/

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40



At 01:24 AM 6/15/2006, you wrote:

>Has anyone out there been brave enough to R&R the PS gearbox? If so,
>I'd like to hear the removal procedure / sequence.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Danny
>FC33 1978
>San Jose, CA
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dan]

Thanks Tom. Admittedly, inexperience is playing a role here. But;

On gravel, not rolling, high effort and belt noise. More when
turning left.

Steering returns easily to center when driving, suggesting
suspension is free of binding.

Bleeding procedure repeated several times (started engine,
immediately turn wheel slightly each direction)

New pump 1yr ago. Same pump rebuilt and tested 10 days ago.

Blunder: On the eve of purchase (three weeks ago) it made the noise.
I tightened the PS belt. Seller was at the wheel, bird on cement,
static - he turned lock to lock no noise - perfect! Then the seller
kept turning back and forth quickly (3 cycles) - before I could get
him to stop, it began making noise again. I checked fluid; canister
was extremely hot, with less than a half an inch of fluid in the
bottom of the reservior.

I am thinking box seal(s) overheated and failed, as warned about in
the TRW manual. I hope I'm wrong!

Thanks

Danny
FC33 1978
San Jose, CA

(I am interested in the specs you mentioned "off forum". I can be
reached at 1-800-231-6861. Thanks)












--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> When I see a comment like this Danny I wonder what is motivating
the
> person to even want to remove the gearbox? Have you, or a
> professional that understands completely the front suspension of
the
> Bluebird carefully inspected the suspension and made absolutely
sure
> that the gearbox is even part of the problem? You can end up
causing
> more problems then you resolve if you do not know how to properly
> troubleshoot possible defects in the bluebird.
>
> Do you have the manufacturers technical information on the front
> suspension including the gearbox? If you dont I have it to share
with
> you off forum/
>
> Tom Warner
> Vernon Center,NY
> 1985 PT 40
>
>
>
> At 01:24 AM 6/15/2006, you wrote:
>
> >Has anyone out there been brave enough to R&R the PS gearbox? If
so,
> >I'd like to hear the removal procedure / sequence.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Danny
> >FC33 1978
> >San Jose, CA
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Tom Warner]

Danny:

1. Dont turn the wheels when the coach is stationary.it puts to high
a load on the power steering pump and steering box. Only turn the
steering wheel when you start moving.

2. make sure you keep the power steering reservoir filled to the
proper level with no air pockets in it.

3. ALWAYS and I repeat ALWAYS ensure that you have the proper V belt
on the power steering pump.

4. ALWAYS tighten the V belt on the power steering pump to the
proper belt tension. Tighten it to much and you wear out the
bearings and cause leaks. Tighten it not enough and you risk the belt
slipping wearing them out fast and lots of squealing.

In my opinion (this is what I have always done) buy a Kriket from
NAPA or any other automotive store that carries them and use it to
properly tension each belt on the engine including the power steering
belt. Its the best money you could spend for the peace of mind
knowing that you have done it right. Also buy a manual belt
tightener so you can properly tighten the pullys and get the right V
belt tension.

tom warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40


At 12:49 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote:

>Thanks Tom. Admittedly, inexperience is playing a role here. But;
>
>On gravel, not rolling, high effort and belt noise. More when
>turning left.
>
>Steering returns easily to center when driving, suggesting
>suspension is free of binding.
>
>Bleeding procedure repeated several times (started engine,
>immediately turn wheel slightly each direction)
>
>New pump 1yr ago. Same pump rebuilt and tested 10 days ago.
>
>Blunder: On the eve of purchase (three weeks ago) it made the noise.
>I tightened the PS belt. Seller was at the wheel, bird on cement,
>static - he turned lock to lock no noise - perfect! Then the seller
>kept turning back and forth quickly (3 cycles) - before I could get
>him to stop, it began making noise again. I checked fluid; canister
>was extremely hot, with less than a half an inch of fluid in the
>bottom of the reservior.
>
>I am thinking box seal(s) overheated and failed, as warned about in
>the TRW manual. I hope I'm wrong!
>
>Thanks
>
>Danny
>FC33 1978
>San Jose, CA
>
>(I am interested in the specs you mentioned "off forum". I can be
>reached at 1-800-231-6861. Thanks)
>
>--- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > When I see a comment like this Danny I wonder what is motivating
>the
> > person to even want to remove the gearbox? Have you, or a
> > professional that understands completely the front suspension of
>the
> > Bluebird carefully inspected the suspension and made absolutely
>sure
> > that the gearbox is even part of the problem? You can end up
>causing
> > more problems then you resolve if you do not know how to properly
> > troubleshoot possible defects in the bluebird.
> >
> > Do you have the manufacturers technical information on the front
> > suspension including the gearbox? If you dont I have it to share
>with
> > you off forum/
> >
> > Tom Warner
> > Vernon Center,NY
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> >
> > At 01:24 AM 6/15/2006, you wrote:
> >
> > >Has anyone out there been brave enough to R&R the PS gearbox? If
>so,
> > >I'd like to hear the removal procedure / sequence.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >Danny
> > >FC33 1978
> > >San Jose, CA
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>

[Dan]

Thanks for the advice. First thing - I'll check the belt numbers and
buy a tensionometer and tensioner. Darn good advice.

But, I am of the notion that I should be able to turn while still,
without noise (especially on gravel). Here's why:

1.) the power steering pump rebuilder said, with 12,000 lbs on the
front wheels, the pressure required to turn the non-rolling wheels
should be about 600 psi (the pump is good for 1700 psi.)

2.) in 1978, who would pay over $100k for a coach that is harmed by a
function so crucial to maneuvering in tight spaces? - like when
parking in my tiny back yard? It doesn't make marketing sense to me.

That said - I agree that static turns should be avoided if at all
possible.

Tom, thanks for your patience and great advice; much appreciated!

Danny
1978 FC33
San Jose, CA



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> Danny:
>
> 1. Dont turn the wheels when the coach is stationary.it puts to
high
> a load on the power steering pump and steering box. Only turn the
> steering wheel when you start moving.
>
> 2. make sure you keep the power steering reservoir filled to the
> proper level with no air pockets in it.
>
> 3. ALWAYS and I repeat ALWAYS ensure that you have the proper V
belt
> on the power steering pump.
>
> 4. ALWAYS tighten the V belt on the power steering pump to the
> proper belt tension. Tighten it to much and you wear out the
> bearings and cause leaks. Tighten it not enough and you risk the
belt
> slipping wearing them out fast and lots of squealing.
>
> In my opinion (this is what I have always done) buy a Kriket from
> NAPA or any other automotive store that carries them and use it to
> properly tension each belt on the engine including the power
steering
> belt. Its the best money you could spend for the peace of mind
> knowing that you have done it right. Also buy a manual belt
> tightener so you can properly tighten the pullys and get the right
V
> belt tension.
>
> tom warner
> Vernon Center,NY
> 1985 PT 40

[Tom Warner]

Danny forgot to add that you want the type 1 Kriket
tool. http://tinyurl.com/e3nz4
http://www.9xauto.com/tentiontool.htm
For the tool that you use to spread the pullys while you get the
exact adjustment with the Kriket I made my own out of some oak blocks
cut into a semi circle and threaded all rod and nuts. Allows you to
easily spread the pullys to the exact spacing necessary to set the
tension you need to measure with the Kriket. You can buy a set of
these blocks at JC whitney but I cant remember the part number.

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,Ny
1985 PT 40

At 09:09 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote:

>Thanks for the advice. First thing - I'll check the belt numbers and
>buy a tensionometer and tensioner. Darn good advice.
>
>But, I am of the notion that I should be able to turn while still,
>without noise (especially on gravel). Here's why:
>
>1.) the power steering pump rebuilder said, with 12,000 lbs on the
>front wheels, the pressure required to turn the non-rolling wheels
>should be about 600 psi (the pump is good for 1700 psi.)
>
>2.) in 1978, who would pay over $100k for a coach that is harmed by a
>function so crucial to maneuvering in tight spaces? - like when
>parking in my tiny back yard? It doesn't make marketing sense to me.
>
>That said - I agree that static turns should be avoided if at all
>possible.
>
>Tom, thanks for your patience and great advice; much appreciated!
>
>Danny
>1978 FC33
>San Jose, CA
>
>--- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Danny:
> >
> > 1. Dont turn the wheels when the coach is stationary.it puts to
>high
> > a load on the power steering pump and steering box. Only turn the
> > steering wheel when you start moving.
> >
> > 2. make sure you keep the power steering reservoir filled to the
> > proper level with no air pockets in it.
> >
> > 3. ALWAYS and I repeat ALWAYS ensure that you have the proper V
>belt
> > on the power steering pump.
> >
> > 4. ALWAYS tighten the V belt on the power steering pump to the
> > proper belt tension. Tighten it to much and you wear out the
> > bearings and cause leaks. Tighten it not enough and you risk the
>belt
> > slipping wearing them out fast and lots of squealing.
> >
> > In my opinion (this is what I have always done) buy a Kriket from
> > NAPA or any other automotive store that carries them and use it to
> > properly tension each belt on the engine including the power
>steering
> > belt. Its the best money you could spend for the peace of mind
> > knowing that you have done it right. Also buy a manual belt
> > tightener so you can properly tighten the pullys and get the right
>V
> > belt tension.
> >
> > tom warner
> > Vernon Center,NY
> > 1985 PT 40
>
>

[Dan]

What a neat little device! I can't wait to see how it works! Thanks
for bringing that to my attention.

I'll check out JC for the spreader. Any comments or criticism on
my "notion", point 1 and 2 below?

Thanks,

Danny
FC33 1978
San Jose, CA

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
>
> Danny forgot to add that you want the type 1 Kriket
> tool. http://tinyurl.com/e3nz4
> http://www.9xauto.com/tentiontool.htm
> For the tool that you use to spread the pullys while you get the
> exact adjustment with the Kriket I made my own out of some oak
blocks
> cut into a semi circle and threaded all rod and nuts. Allows you
to
> easily spread the pullys to the exact spacing necessary to set the
> tension you need to measure with the Kriket. You can buy a set of
> these blocks at JC whitney but I cant remember the part number.
>
> Tom Warner
> Vernon Center,Ny
> 1985 PT 40
>
> At 09:09 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote:
>
> >Thanks for the advice. First thing - I'll check the belt numbers
and
> >buy a tensionometer and tensioner. Darn good advice.
> >
> >But, I am of the notion that I should be able to turn while still,
> >without noise (especially on gravel). Here's why:
> >
> >1.) the power steering pump rebuilder said, with 12,000 lbs on the
> >front wheels, the pressure required to turn the non-rolling wheels
> >should be about 600 psi (the pump is good for 1700 psi.)
> >
> >2.) in 1978, who would pay over $100k for a coach that is harmed
by a
> >function so crucial to maneuvering in tight spaces? - like when
> >parking in my tiny back yard? It doesn't make marketing sense to
me.
> >
> >That said - I agree that static turns should be avoided if at all
> >possible.
> >
> >Tom, thanks for your patience and great advice; much appreciated!
> >
> >Danny
> >1978 FC33
> >San Jose, CA
> >
> >--- In
> > 40yahoogroups.com>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> >Tom Warner
> >wrote:
> > >
> > > Danny:
> > >
> > > 1. Dont turn the wheels when the coach is stationary.it puts to
> >high
> > > a load on the power steering pump and steering box. Only turn
the
> > > steering wheel when you start moving.
> > >
> > > 2. make sure you keep the power steering reservoir filled to
the
> > > proper level with no air pockets in it.
> > >
> > > 3. ALWAYS and I repeat ALWAYS ensure that you have the proper V
> >belt
> > > on the power steering pump.
> > >
> > > 4. ALWAYS tighten the V belt on the power steering pump to the
> > > proper belt tension. Tighten it to much and you wear out the
> > > bearings and cause leaks. Tighten it not enough and you risk
the
> >belt
> > > slipping wearing them out fast and lots of squealing.
> > >
> > > In my opinion (this is what I have always done) buy a Kriket
from
> > > NAPA or any other automotive store that carries them and use
it to
> > > properly tension each belt on the engine including the power
> >steering
> > > belt. Its the best money you could spend for the peace of mind
> > > knowing that you have done it right. Also buy a manual belt
> > > tightener so you can properly tighten the pullys and get the
right
> >V
> > > belt tension.
> > >
> > > tom warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
>

[Dan]

I picked up a Krikit belt tension meter this afternoon. How much
tension should there be on the PS belt?

Thanks,

Danny
FC33, 1978
San Jose, CA


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
>
> Danny forgot to add that you want the type 1 Kriket
> tool. http://tinyurl.com/e3nz4
> http://www.9xauto.com/tentiontool.htm
> For the tool that you use to spread the pullys while you get the
> exact adjustment with the Kriket I made my own out of some oak
blocks
> cut into a semi circle and threaded all rod and nuts. Allows you
to
> easily spread the pullys to the exact spacing necessary to set the
> tension you need to measure with the Kriket. You can buy a set of
> these blocks at JC whitney but I cant remember the part number.
>
> Tom Warner
> Vernon Center,Ny
> 1985 PT 40
>
> At 09:09 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote:
>
> >Thanks for the advice. First thing - I'll check the belt numbers
and
> >buy a tensionometer and tensioner. Darn good advice.
> >
> >But, I am of the notion that I should be able to turn while still,
> >without noise (especially on gravel). Here's why:
> >
> >1.) the power steering pump rebuilder said, with 12,000 lbs on the
> >front wheels, the pressure required to turn the non-rolling wheels
> >should be about 600 psi (the pump is good for 1700 psi.)
> >
> >2.) in 1978, who would pay over $100k for a coach that is harmed
by a
> >function so crucial to maneuvering in tight spaces? - like when
> >parking in my tiny back yard? It doesn't make marketing sense to
me.
> >
> >That said - I agree that static turns should be avoided if at all
> >possible.
> >
> >Tom, thanks for your patience and great advice; much appreciated!
> >
> >Danny
> >1978 FC33
> >San Jose, CA
> >
> >--- In
> > 40yahoogroups.com>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> >Tom Warner
> >wrote:
> > >
> > > Danny:
> > >
> > > 1. Dont turn the wheels when the coach is stationary.it puts to
> >high
> > > a load on the power steering pump and steering box. Only turn
the
> > > steering wheel when you start moving.
> > >
> > > 2. make sure you keep the power steering reservoir filled to
the
> > > proper level with no air pockets in it.
> > >
> > > 3. ALWAYS and I repeat ALWAYS ensure that you have the proper V
> >belt
> > > on the power steering pump.
> > >
> > > 4. ALWAYS tighten the V belt on the power steering pump to the
> > > proper belt tension. Tighten it to much and you wear out the
> > > bearings and cause leaks. Tighten it not enough and you risk
the
> >belt
> > > slipping wearing them out fast and lots of squealing.
> > >
> > > In my opinion (this is what I have always done) buy a Kriket
from
> > > NAPA or any other automotive store that carries them and use
it to
> > > properly tension each belt on the engine including the power
> >steering
> > > belt. Its the best money you could spend for the peace of mind
> > > knowing that you have done it right. Also buy a manual belt
> > > tightener so you can properly tighten the pullys and get the
right
> >V
> > > belt tension.
> > >
> > > tom warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
>

[Tom Warner]

Two questions, the tension on the power steering belt, and how many
are there and what order on the pullys.

On my1982 FC35 there are:

water pump: 2 ea XL25-9490
power steering: 2 ea XL25-9370
air conditioner compressor: 1 ea XL25-9690
Horton air fan: 1 ea XL25-9451
chassis air pump: 2 ea XL25-9580

As to the tension:

3/8" V belts; 120# when new 60-90 # after 30 minutes run in
1/2# V belts: 120# when new 70-90 # after 30 minutes run in
5/8" V belts: 120# when new 89-90 # after 30 minutes run in


you have all 1/2 inch V belts on the front of your engine. The order
of the belts I have listed are from the rear of the pullys forward

tom warner
vernon center,NY
1985 PT40


At 11:30 PM 6/16/2006, you wrote:

>I picked up a Krikit belt tension meter this afternoon. How much
>tension should there be on the PS belt?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Danny
>FC33, 1978
>San Jose, CA
>
>--- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> >
> > Danny forgot to add that you want the type 1 Kriket
> > tool. <http://tinyurl.com/e3nz4>http://tinyurl.com/e3nz4
> > http://www.9xauto.com/tentiontool.htm
> > For the tool that you use to spread the pullys while you get the
> > exact adjustment with the Kriket I made my own out of some oak
>blocks
> > cut into a semi circle and threaded all rod and nuts. Allows you
>to
> > easily spread the pullys to the exact spacing necessary to set the
> > tension you need to measure with the Kriket. You can buy a set of
> > these blocks at JC whitney but I cant remember the part number.
> >
> > Tom Warner
> > Vernon Center,Ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> > At 09:09 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks for the advice. First thing - I'll check the belt numbers
>and
> > >buy a tensionometer and tensioner. Darn good advice.
> > >
> > >But, I am of the notion that I should be able to turn while still,
> > >without noise (especially on gravel). Here's why:
> > >
> > >1.) the power steering pump rebuilder said, with 12,000 lbs on the
> > >front wheels, the pressure required to turn the non-rolling wheels
> > >should be about 600 psi (the pump is good for 1700 psi.)
> > >
> > >2.) in 1978, who would pay over $100k for a coach that is harmed
>by a
> > >function so crucial to maneuvering in tight spaces? - like when
> > >parking in my tiny back yard? It doesn't make marketing sense to
>me.
> > >
> > >That said - I agree that static turns should be avoided if at all
> > >possible.
> > >
> > >Tom, thanks for your patience and great advice; much appreciated!
> > >
> > >Danny
> > >1978 FC33
> > >San Jose, CA
> > >
> > >--- In
> > > >40yahoogroups.com>WanderlodgeForum@y\
ahoogroups.com,
>
> > >Tom Warner
> > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Danny:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Dont turn the wheels when the coach is stationary.it puts to
> > >high
> > > > a load on the power steering pump and steering box. Only turn
>the
> > > > steering wheel when you start moving.
> > > >
> > > > 2. make sure you keep the power steering reservoir filled to
>the
> > > > proper level with no air pockets in it.
> > > >
> > > > 3. ALWAYS and I repeat ALWAYS ensure that you have the proper V
> > >belt
> > > > on the power steering pump.
> > > >
> > > > 4. ALWAYS tighten the V belt on the power steering pump to the
> > > > proper belt tension. Tighten it to much and you wear out the
> > > > bearings and cause leaks. Tighten it not enough and you risk
>the
> > >belt
> > > > slipping wearing them out fast and lots of squealing.
> > > >
> > > > In my opinion (this is what I have always done) buy a Kriket
>from
> > > > NAPA or any other automotive store that carries them and use
>it to
> > > > properly tension each belt on the engine including the power
> > >steering
> > > > belt. Its the best money you could spend for the peace of mind
> > > > knowing that you have done it right. Also buy a manual belt
> > > > tightener so you can properly tighten the pullys and get the
>right
> > >V
> > > > belt tension.
> > > >
> > > > tom warner
> > > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

[Dan]

Thanks Tom! Would you mind if I put the following in a text file to
add to the "files" section?

Belt_tension.txt================

Belt Tensions:

3/8" V belts; 120# when new 60-90 # after 30 minutes run in
1/2# V belts: 120# when new 70-90 # after 30 minutes run in
5/8" V belts: 120# when new 89-90 # after 30 minutes run in

$20 Tension meter: Krikit type 1 (see pdf in same folder)

Advice given by Tom Warner

========================End File

Thanks,

Danny
FC33 1978
San Jose, CA








--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:

> On my1982 FC35 there are:
>
> water pump: 2 ea XL25-9490
> power steering: 2 ea XL25-9370
> air conditioner compressor: 1 ea XL25-9690
> Horton air fan: 1 ea XL25-9451
> chassis air pump: 2 ea XL25-9580
>
> As to the tension:
>
> 3/8" V belts; 120# when new 60-90 # after 30 minutes run in
> 1/2# V belts: 120# when new 70-90 # after 30 minutes run in
> 5/8" V belts: 120# when new 89-90 # after 30 minutes run in
>