HELP - 8V92 will not start

[Ryan Wright]

Larry,

I wish you the best of luck. Thank you for posting information on your
problem solving methodologies, I'm saving this in case I ever need it.
Knowing virtually nothing about diesels, having my big old beast
refuse to start is my worst nightmare with this coach. Everything
else, I can fix. Even the little Yanmar generator engine I think I
could troubleshoot OK. But that big beast out back, just thinking
about having trouble getting her to start scares the heck out of me.
You're in the thick of it now and I'm really glad I'm not in your
shoes. Although, the masochist in me wishes I was there so I could
help, I mean, stand around and look stupid (that is not an invitation
for my engine to pull the same stunt).

-Ryan

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Larry Kehler wrote:
> I am making some progress but I thought I would update everyone on
> what is happening.
> Using Curt's article on replacing his fuel hoses, I built a electric
> prime pump and put a ball valve to open and shut the feed line.
> I ran about a gallon of fuel through the system and then tried to
> start the engine with the electric pump still running. It cranked and
> pumped out white smoke. After several more pump tries and more white
> smoke. I determined that lost prime was not the problem. It was
> clear that the injectors were not firing. I started worrying that I
> had toasted the ECM. I decided that I had to find a 92 series
> mechanic with some diagnostics tools. I drove to several truck repair
> garages and got the same response-
> "yea we work on Detroits" - "What do you mean 2 stroke, I never seen
> no 2 stroke diesel".
> Then I found on the way home, the Detroit Diesel Dealer has moved to
> within 10 miles of my house.
> I found a old 92 series mechanic who was at the new facility teaching
> young mechanics. He took me to a 89 Newell coach and told me that if
> my stop engine and check engine light come with the ignition switch
> and then both go off after 10 seconds, my DEC ECM is OK.
>
> I showed him what I had done with my prime pump. His response was
> that the injectors were not firing because I need 80 Pounds of fuel
> pressure to fire. He said it could be leaking hoses or fuel pump.
> He suggested a pressure gage to check the fuel pressure. He also
> showed me to which outlet hose to pull off and put in a bucket of
> clean fuel and crank the engine If I get bubbles in the fuel, then I
> likely have a bad hose. If the flow is clean and clear, then I might
> have a bad pump. The pressure gage will tell the story on the pump.
>
> Two bad possible causes is a broken drive shaft for the pump. The
> other is the sensors that time the ECM. The last two options would
> require towing the coach to their facility.
> If it is a new pump, he said I should be able to replace the pump and
> told me the steps to pull the Coldplate/DECC.
>
> So I am encouraged that I will be able to get going in the next two or
> three days. I will keep you posted.
>
> Larry Kehler
> 1994 PT-40 WBDA
> St Louis
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> wrote:
>>
>> If you got those injectors dry, it might take a while to get fuel
>> through and the engine fire. Also, I assume the engine is cranking at
>> a pretty good speed. Weak batteries won't spin the engine fast enough
>> to get a compression ignition.
>>
>> I spent 35 minutes once repeatedly cranking before I got it to run.
>>
>> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>>
>
>

[Larry Kehler]

The saga continues, here is an update:
At the suggestion of the DD mechanic, I disconnected the racor out
line and put into a 5 gallon bucket of clean fuel.

After cranking for about 2 gallons, the engine would start and run for
about 20 seconds. After about 10 tries, waiting for the batteries to
recharge between tries, I had run the entire 5 gallons through the engine.

Now the interesting part, the curb side exhaust manifold was hot and
the street side was ice cold. I think this means that the one hose
must be clogged or the injectors are not firing on one side.

I am going to talk to the mechanic tomorrow and if he has an easy fix,
I will try it one more time. Then I am giving up and having the coach
towed to their facility. I hate to pay the $400 tow bill but I am
tired of working in a storage lot.

One last question, while I was waiting for the batteries to charge, I
decided to pull the air filter and check it out. It was really dirty
and included a mud dabber nest. I could not get the filter out. I
assume the end caps come off but I could not get either end to come
off. They both seem to be welded in place. I searched the forums for
some answers but found no info. How does the filter come out?

Thanks

Larry Kehler
94 PT-40 WBDA
St Louis

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright"
wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> I wish you the best of luck. Thank you for posting information on your
> problem solving methodologies, I'm saving this in case I ever need it.
> Knowing virtually nothing about diesels, having my big old beast
> refuse to start is my worst nightmare with this coach. Everything
> else, I can fix. Even the little Yanmar generator engine I think I
> could troubleshoot OK. But that big beast out back, just thinking
> about having trouble getting her to start scares the heck out of me.
> You're in the thick of it now and I'm really glad I'm not in your
> shoes. Although, the masochist in me wishes I was there so I could
> help, I mean, stand around and look stupid (that is not an invitation
> for my engine to pull the same stunt).
>
> -Ryan

[Gregory OConnor]

Did you ever try starting it with the fuel cap removed??? (starved
vacumn lock)

It is alot cheaper to hire a mobile mechanic to make a site visit.
You even save $2. per the mile to drive it in and back yourself (
when they are running). the other good thing about a mobile mechanic
is ;they are working on your bus for that period of time and not
lineing you up behind squeeky customers. I have in the past met
mobile mechanics in the parking lot of Napa in the hopes that I
could run the parts without delay to the tech and get back on the
road early.

Save up for a new starter

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Kehler"
wrote:
>
> The saga continues, here is an update:
> At the suggestion of the DD mechanic, I disconnected the racor out
> line and put into a 5 gallon bucket of clean fuel.
>
> After cranking for about 2 gallons, the engine would start and run
for
> about 20 seconds. After about 10 tries, waiting for the batteries
to
> recharge between tries, I had run the entire 5 gallons through the
engine.
>
> Now the interesting part, the curb side exhaust manifold was hot
and
> the street side was ice cold. I think this means that the one hose
> must be clogged or the injectors are not firing on one side.
>
> I am going to talk to the mechanic tomorrow and if he has an easy
fix,
> I will try it one more time. Then I am giving up and having the
coach
> towed to their facility. I hate to pay the $400 tow bill but I am
> tired of working in a storage lot.
>
> One last question, while I was waiting for the batteries to
charge, I
> decided to pull the air filter and check it out. It was really
dirty
> and included a mud dabber nest. I could not get the filter out.
I
> assume the end caps come off but I could not get either end to come
> off. They both seem to be welded in place. I searched the forums
for
> some answers but found no info. How does the filter come out?
>
> Thanks
>
> Larry Kehler
> 94 PT-40 WBDA
> St Louis
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright"
> wrote:
> >
> > Larry,
> >
> > I wish you the best of luck. Thank you for posting information
on your
> > problem solving methodologies, I'm saving this in case I ever
need it.
> > Knowing virtually nothing about diesels, having my big old beast
> > refuse to start is my worst nightmare with this coach. Everything
> > else, I can fix. Even the little Yanmar generator engine I think
I
> > could troubleshoot OK. But that big beast out back, just thinking
> > about having trouble getting her to start scares the heck out of
me.
> > You're in the thick of it now and I'm really glad I'm not in your
> > shoes. Although, the masochist in me wishes I was there so I
could
> > help, I mean, stand around and look stupid (that is not an
invitation
> > for my engine to pull the same stunt).
> >
> > -Ryan
>

[putneyflash@...]

A field tech should be able to remove the cold side valve cover ,then you can move the throttle by hand to see if the fuel rack on the cold side is moving since none of them appear to be firing, I would think no fuel or the rack control rod has come loose and not moving the injectors. Just a though,

--
RE

-------------- Original message from "Gregory OConnor" : --------------

Did you ever try starting it with the fuel cap removed??? (starved
vacumn lock)

It is alot cheaper to hire a mobile mechanic to make a site visit.
You even save $2. per the mile to drive it in and back yourself (
when they are running). the other good thing about a mobile mechanic
is ;they are working on your bus for that period of time and not
lineing you up behind squeeky customers. I have in the past met
mobile mechanics in the parking lot of Napa in the hopes that I
could run the parts without delay to the tech and get back on the
road early.

Save up for a new starter

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Larry Kehler"
.> wrote:
>
> The saga continues, here is an update:
> At the suggestion of the DD mechanic, I disconnected the racor out
> line and put into a 5 gallon bucket of clean fuel.
>
> After cranking for about 2 gallons, the engine would start and run
for
> about 20 seconds. After about 10 tries, waiting for the batteries
to
> recharge between tries, I had run the entire 5 gallons through the
engine.
>
> Now the interesting part, the curb side exhaust manifold was hot
and
> the street side was ice cold. I think this means that the one hose
> must be clogged or the injectors are not firing on one side.
>
> I am going to talk to the mechanic tomorrow and if he has an easy
fix,
> I will try it one more time. Then I am giving up and having the
coach
> towed to their facility. I hate to pay the $400 tow bill but I am
> tired of working in a storage lot.
>
> One last question, while I was waiting for the batteries to
charge, I
> decided to pull the air filter and check it out. It was really
dirty
> and included a mud dabber nest. I could not get the filter out.
I
> assume the end caps come off but I could not get either end to come
> off. They both seem to be welded in place. I searched the forums
for
> some answers but found no info. How does the filter come out?
>
> Thanks
>
> Larry Kehler
> 94 PT-40 WBDA
> St Louis
>
> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Ryan Wright"
> > wrote:
> >
> > Larry,
> >
> > I wish you the best of luck. Thank you for posting information
on your
> > problem solving methodologies, I'm saving this in case I ever
need it.
> > Knowing virtually nothing about diesels, having my big old beast
> > refuse to start is my worst nightmare with this coach. Everything
> > else, I can fix. Even the little Yanmar generator engine I think
I
> > could troubleshoot OK. But that big beast out back, just thinking
> > about having trouble getting her to start scares the heck out of
me.
> > You're in the thick of it now and I'm really glad I'm not in your
> > shoes. Although, the masochist in me wishes I was there so I
could
> > help, I mean, stand around and look stupid (that is not an
invitation
> > for my engine to pull the same stunt).
> >
> > -Ryan
>

[Gregory OConnor]

My thinking is the curbside manifold is hot from the now burnt up
starter. If it ran for 20 seconds and shut down, all pistons were
firing. Kinda think it is fuel, and at this point a simple repair.
Larry if you talk to a tech, give him all the clues of work you
performed. The more you screw with it blindfolded the less chance
you have of locating the true problem.

ie; I went to SanFran this weekend (1,000 miles) in a Dodge pickup
after reading the aircon article by a newbe???? I was able to start
the trip with airconditioning ($39.95 repair, Thanks). soon into
the trip the air stopped blowing. I assumed it was flow from vacumn
lines not keeping internal ducting dampers open. I would pull off
every hour and reach under the dash and pull on the vacume plungers
until there was air flow. the exersize took exactly 15 minutes
every time. I soon found it to be frozen flow across the thing-a-ma-
gig that removes the heat from the air in the pipes. My attempts
made the repair because the laps of time allowed nature to thaw the
frozen passageway. In this case, 30 HailMarys would have proven the
same repair result(I get a penance of some 300 every friday). In
the mean time I lost radio power, sparked somthing, and there is now
a silver thing???? hanging below the dash hooked to two wires??? I
know the ploblem but have not found what is the cause.

The non electronic V92 fire up with a cam. I dont know if there is
even a cam for the DDec?????? MonteH found his cam on a 6v92 was
flatened out and now that it is replaced he runs a 6V hotrod

When you get info from a tech, many of the steps in the repair
process is taken for granted. things like be sure to block up the
frame is just one of them. ( the only place where you can get a tech
to craw under a bus un supported is CCW and Bruces Tijuana/Moped
driving mobileMechanic.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, putneyflash@... wrote:
>
> A field tech should be able to remove the cold side valve
cover ,then you can move the throttle by hand to see if the fuel
rack on the cold side is moving since none of them appear to be
firing, I would think no fuel or the rack control rod has come loose
and not moving the injectors. Just a though,
> --
> RE