more amps

[dandarst]

Jay and I just removed the 160 amp and installed a 320 amp Leece
Neville alternator. Anybody know what trouble I would be asking for
with this change? Have not been out on the road yet, but spun it in
the drive way. Gauge only goes to 150 amps and got all of that.
Probably need to watch the belts. Will this cook the Trojans?

Thanks.
dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.

[casmith]

I'd be concerned about the size of the wire. Twice the current is now
available. I'd check the blueprints to see if it will handle it.

Craig 91PT40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dandarst"
wrote:
> Jay and I just removed the 160 amp and installed a 320 amp Leece
> Neville alternator. Anybody know what trouble I would be asking for
> with this change? Have not been out on the road yet, but spun it in
> the drive way. Gauge only goes to 150 amps and got all of that.
> Probably need to watch the belts. Will this cook the Trojans?
>
> Thanks.
> dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.

[hsaddock]

Dan:
I agree with Craig, wire size from the alternator to the battery
banks is the first issue, the battery isolator or relays that
isolate the house from starting and genne batteries is the second
issue and all wires/devices down stream are a potential issue.
Let's address the wire size first. I'm not sure what wire size from
the alternator your coach has now, my 83 FC 35 with a 165amp
alternator has 1 gage wire and it runs about 7 feet. I would guess
yours to be similar. From the work I have done with inverters, the
manufactures would suggest 3/0 or 4/0 cable for a similar
current/distance run. (keep in mind that you can weld massive steel
structures at 320 amps, you need welding cable here!) Next check
the ratings on the battery isolation/relays and upgrade as required,
320 amps would smoke my old diode isolation system and the new Blue-
sea isolation relay I just installed. I would then look at all
down stream loads, if they can draw more than the output of your old
alternator @ 165amps (such as house batteries, genne starting
batteries) then the wire size of these loads will need to be
upgraded to the correct size for the max amount they could draw but
you don't need to go larger than the max the alternator can put
out. If you don't address the wire size issue, someday, when the
batteries are low and the alternator is pumping out max current for
an extended period of time, smoke and fire will be the result.
Harry Saddock
83FC35
South Windsor, CT

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "casmith"
wrote:
> I'd be concerned about the size of the wire. Twice the current is
now
> available. I'd check the blueprints to see if it will handle it.
>
> Craig 91PT40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dandarst"
> wrote:
> > Jay and I just removed the 160 amp and installed a 320 amp Leece
> > Neville alternator. Anybody know what trouble I would be asking
for
> > with this change? Have not been out on the road yet, but spun it
in
> > the drive way. Gauge only goes to 150 amps and got all of that.
> > Probably need to watch the belts. Will this cook the Trojans?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.

[Dan Darst]

We planned to, and were prepared to change the wire from the alternator to
the shunt and from the shunt to the batteries, to 4/0. The original wire,
which we were thinking was about 1/0 at 7 feet, was so buried and encased in
foam that we failed to remove it first try. If we succeed it will be to 4/0.
We did change one of the three ground straps on the alternator to 4/0.

Couple years ago we installed a 2500 watt (5000 watt surge) inverter/130 amp
charger in a 50 foot round trip run from/to the batteries using Ancor marine
grade 4/0 (tinned copper, fine strand, 8 dollars per foot cheapest find)
wire. So far have not had any problems with that set up, but don't know if
that reference should give any comfort on the seven foot alternator run
using origianal wire.

Thanks for taking your time to respond.
dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.




>From: "hsaddock"
>Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: more amps
>Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:00:15 -0000
>
>Dan:
>I agree with Craig, wire size from the alternator to the battery
>banks is the first issue, the battery isolator or relays that
>isolate the house from starting and genne batteries is the second
>issue and all wires/devices down stream are a potential issue.
>Let's address the wire size first. I'm not sure what wire size from
>the alternator your coach has now, my 83 FC 35 with a 165amp
>alternator has 1 gage wire and it runs about 7 feet. I would guess
>yours to be similar. From the work I have done with inverters, the
>manufactures would suggest 3/0 or 4/0 cable for a similar
>current/distance run. (keep in mind that you can weld massive steel
>structures at 320 amps, you need welding cable here!) Next check
>the ratings on the battery isolation/relays and upgrade as required,
>320 amps would smoke my old diode isolation system and the new Blue-
>sea isolation relay I just installed. I would then look at all
>down stream loads, if they can draw more than the output of your old
>alternator @ 165amps (such as house batteries, genne starting
>batteries) then the wire size of these loads will need to be
>upgraded to the correct size for the max amount they could draw but
>you don't need to go larger than the max the alternator can put
>out. If you don't address the wire size issue, someday, when the
>batteries are low and the alternator is pumping out max current for
>an extended period of time, smoke and fire will be the result.
>Harry Saddock
>83FC35
>South Windsor, CT
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "casmith"
>wrote:
> > I'd be concerned about the size of the wire. Twice the current is
>now
> > available. I'd check the blueprints to see if it will handle it.
> >
> > Craig 91PT40
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dandarst"
> > wrote:
> > > Jay and I just removed the 160 amp and installed a 320 amp Leece
> > > Neville alternator. Anybody know what trouble I would be asking
>for
> > > with this change? Have not been out on the road yet, but spun it
>in
> > > the drive way. Gauge only goes to 150 amps and got all of that.
> > > Probably need to watch the belts. Will this cook the Trojans?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.
>
>

[Jim]

If you are putting out 150 amps the question is why? Are you running a
large inverter off the batteries? Yes you can cook the batteries in no time
if they are receiving 150 amps. Just remember that 150 amps at 12 volts is
almost 2KW.



JIm



_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dandarst
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 6:18 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] more amps



Jay and I just removed the 160 amp and installed a 320 amp Leece
Neville alternator. Anybody know what trouble I would be asking for
with this change? Have not been out on the road yet, but spun it in
the drive way. Gauge only goes to 150 amps and got all of that.
Probably need to watch the belts. Will this cook the Trojans?

Thanks.
dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[one_dusty_hoot]

Jay,
I certainly don't want to frost anyone's flakes, or fry anyone's
alternator ;>) however, replacing the wire from the alternator to
the shunt you mentioned with 4-0, or, any other wire could cause
your coach to go up in smoke!

I am not an expert, never have been, never will be, but chances are
you have a "fuse link" from the alternator to the terminal point
which acts as current limiter for the alternator.

An alternator as the word implies, puts out an Alternating Current
(AC) voltage as it is rotated. Slip rings carry this voltage to a
rectifier bridge which filters the AC voltage into DC voltage using
diodes.

Output votltage of the alternator is maintained by an internal
rectifier which atempts to steady the output at around 14.5 volts.

The rated output of the alternator is dependant on the total
components, which include, windings, armature, diodes, and other
components to a maximun safe peak operating load.

Because the alternator is rated at 320, 160, or, how many Amps,is
dependant on the load and doesn't mean that a say 320A. alternator
will put out 320 Amps, rather, that it "is" capable of delivering
this much if called upon to do so.

A battery will only charge as fast as the hydrogen ions will move
from plate to plate when a "potential" (the 14.5V from the
alternator) is connected to the positive and negative terminals.

If say, the batteries were at 12 Volts, and, voltage from the
alternator of 14.5 Volts was attached to the terminals, the maximum
amount of current the alternator would produce is that required to
bring the charging batteries to 14.5 Volts, this happens regardless
of what capability you alternator is rated.

This would be the same current no matter what the rating of the
alternator being it 320, 160, or 40. Your old 160 and the replaced
320 will output the same current no difference.

Now, if you have a large load requiring a lot of current connected
to the batteries where moving to a new page, another animal.

I once had a 100 watt linear amplifier connected to a CB. Every time
I keyed the mike the belts would squeal even if they were new and
tensioned correctly.

I would hate to see you, or anyone else, have a fire by overloading
the alternator, or, burn the belts off in a remote location and that
is the reason for responding in this long post.

I really didn't understand why the meter was reading 150 Amps,
unless of course you have one heck of a load attached to the
batteries, current that is going elsewhere and is not battery
charging current.

Bob Janes
77FC31
Greenville, SC








--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dandarst"
wrote:
> Jay and I just removed the 160 amp and installed a 320 amp Leece
> Neville alternator. Anybody know what trouble I would be asking
for
> with this change? Have not been out on the road yet, but spun it
in
> the drive way. Gauge only goes to 150 amps and got all of that.
> Probably need to watch the belts. Will this cook the Trojans?
>
> Thanks.
> dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.

[vabroker1]

I found the site helpful.

http://www.prestolite.com/literature/tec...e_size.pdf



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "one_dusty_hoot"
wrote:
> Jay,
> I certainly don't want to frost anyone's flakes, or fry anyone's
> alternator ;>) however, replacing the wire from the alternator to
> the shunt you mentioned with 4-0, or, any other wire could cause
> your coach to go up in smoke!
>
> I am not an expert, never have been, never will be, but chances are
> you have a "fuse link" from the alternator to the terminal point
> which acts as current limiter for the alternator.
>
> An alternator as the word implies, puts out an Alternating Current
> (AC) voltage as it is rotated. Slip rings carry this voltage to a
> rectifier bridge which filters the AC voltage into DC voltage using
> diodes.
>
> Output votltage of the alternator is maintained by an internal
> rectifier which atempts to steady the output at around 14.5 volts.
>
> The rated output of the alternator is dependant on the total
> components, which include, windings, armature, diodes, and other
> components to a maximun safe peak operating load.
>
> Because the alternator is rated at 320, 160, or, how many Amps,is
> dependant on the load and doesn't mean that a say 320A. alternator
> will put out 320 Amps, rather, that it "is" capable of delivering
> this much if called upon to do so.
>
> A battery will only charge as fast as the hydrogen ions will move
> from plate to plate when a "potential" (the 14.5V from the
> alternator) is connected to the positive and negative terminals.
>
> If say, the batteries were at 12 Volts, and, voltage from the
> alternator of 14.5 Volts was attached to the terminals, the maximum
> amount of current the alternator would produce is that required to
> bring the charging batteries to 14.5 Volts, this happens regardless
> of what capability you alternator is rated.
>
> This would be the same current no matter what the rating of the
> alternator being it 320, 160, or 40. Your old 160 and the replaced
> 320 will output the same current no difference.
>
> Now, if you have a large load requiring a lot of current connected
> to the batteries where moving to a new page, another animal.
>
> I once had a 100 watt linear amplifier connected to a CB. Every time
> I keyed the mike the belts would squeal even if they were new and
> tensioned correctly.
>
> I would hate to see you, or anyone else, have a fire by overloading
> the alternator, or, burn the belts off in a remote location and
that
> is the reason for responding in this long post.
>
> I really didn't understand why the meter was reading 150 Amps,
> unless of course you have one heck of a load attached to the
> batteries, current that is going elsewhere and is not battery
> charging current.
>
> Bob Janes
> 77FC31
> Greenville, SC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dandarst"
> wrote:
> > Jay and I just removed the 160 amp and installed a 320 amp Leece
> > Neville alternator. Anybody know what trouble I would be asking
> for
> > with this change? Have not been out on the road yet, but spun it
> in
> > the drive way. Gauge only goes to 150 amps and got all of that.
> > Probably need to watch the belts. Will this cook the Trojans?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.