just a post from the newell site 3 yr tires????????

[rwoodysurplus]

Certainly, we have had years of experience at the factory observing
the performance of a variety of tire brands and sizes on Newells. The
bottom line: don't put reliance solely on the rated capacity when
selecting new tires.

From the mid-70s through 1985, Newell installed 11R22.5 Michelin steel
belted radial tires with excellent results. With the upgrade to the
8V92 engine in 1985, we began fitting 11R24.5 radials, load range H,
most of which were Goodyears (owing to the influence of our customer
Roger Penske and his experience with Goodyears on the race track as
well as with Hertz Penske truck rental). Once again, the results were
excellent. We later switched to Bridgestones to get more even tread
wear, but both brands performed very well.

In the early 1990s, we realized we were seeing some fully loaded front
axle weights that were bumping up around the rated capacity of the
tires, expecially with fully timers who carried an entire house worth
of gear. However, with the exception of some failures that appeared
linked to underinflation and very high speed cruising, these tires
gave good service and were very reliable. The actual capacity appeared
to be significantly higher than the rated capacity assigned by the
tire manufacturer. Ditto for the wheels.

In 1997 we introduced our first slide-outs and front axle weight took
an upward bump. We took another look at the tire situation and saw
that we could increase the rated front axle capacity if we changed to
315 load range L "low profile" tires, initially on the steer axle
only. We made the change, upgrading our "rated capacity." But in spite
of the increased capacity on paper, we immediately began experiencing
a pattern of steer axle tire failure. We experienced problems with
both Bridgestone and Goodyear tires in the 315 size. We went through
several successive tire models with Goodyear, each promised to solve
the problem, but without relief until finally changing new production
to Michelin with good results. In fact, we were so concerned about the
failures we were seeing with Bridgestone and Goodyear that we did a
NHTSA reported recall and replaced all the Bridgestone and Goodyear
315s (regardless of mileage) with new Michelins.

Since changing to the 315 Michelins, front tire failures declined and
the few we have seen appear to be related to the following factors,
often in combination:

1) Underinflation. The 315 should be inflated to a minimum of 130 psi,
and we recommend 140 psi for summer high speed crusing.
2) Speed. The Michelin 315 tire model installed should be rated at 75
mph (some models are rated at 55 mph maximum!), and the speed
restriction should be observed.
3) Road hazard damage. We recently saw a tire failure caused by a cut
on the tread that allowed moisture to rust the steel belt over a few
months until the tread separated at highway speed.
4) Age. Tires deteriorate from a variety of age related causes,
including UV rays and undetected road hazard damage. We recommend that
steer axle tires be replaced at three years. Cheap insurance.

Based on our experience, coaches running 11R24.5 load range H front
tires need not be "upgraded" to 305 tires to simply get more rated
capacity. However, for both coaches running 11R24.5 tires and later
model coaches running 315 low profile tires, we recommend that the
front tires be replaced every three years regardless of miles, be kept
properly inflated, and excessive speeds be avoided. The tires should
be inspected reguarly for damage. For the 315 tires, we recommend
Michelins with a speed rating of 75 mph.

posted by karlb form newell


hauling wood fc rb 81
in jolon calif for another 10 days at ft hunter liggett!!!!with out my
bus!!!!!!

[birdshill123]

Very interesting information from Newell. I have to question the
engineering ability of a comapny that would buy tires based on race car
experience. I bet they use nutrasystem because of sports endorsements!!
I also question the replacing of front tires every 3 years. This sounds
like a pure CYA statement. Neither Goodyear nor Michelin have ever made
such a statemenet. Sounds to me like they have a serious design flaw
with too much weight on the FA.

Bruce
1988 FC35

[Mike Hohnstein]

I didn't absorb the information the same as you, Bruce.
The statement was "influence" from Mr. Penske. I suspect that Mr. Penskes
experience includes operation of more than a few semi-trucks. Race car
operations tend to travel a good bit around the country with support vehicles
loaded to the limit.
The Newell post indicates problems started after the inclusion of slide outs to
the mix. Consumer demands require them, and manufacturers hoping to stay
solvent must comply.
The result is obviously overloaded tires, problem being the tire suppliers are
at the limit of what is possible to provide as far load bearing. I suspect the
axle weights were discussed with the tire suppliers, and I'll bet the tire guys
said "no problem at all".
Bluebird FC 35s were sent out to the end users with under sized wheels (7.5"
wide) and inflation pressures understated. Ford got in a bunch of trouble with
Firestone due to inflation misinformation. It's a tough world out there trying
to ad value and make a profit and keep end users complaining to a minimum.
Particularly as end users tend to deny ALL personal responsibility, a shyster
enhanced position.
Like it or not, race car experience is used extensively to evaluate designs and
materials for virtually all applications in automotive and truck components. I
don't know where you have been hiding, but it's been that way for a long time.
Mike Hohnstein
Germantown, WI
83FC35 with 24.5 Michelins

----- Original Message -----
From: birdshill123
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:33 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell site 3 yr
tires????????


Very interesting information from Newell. I have to question the
engineering ability of a comapny that would buy tires based on race car
experience. I bet they use nutrasystem because of sports endorsements!!
I also question the replacing of front tires every 3 years. This sounds
like a pure CYA statement. Neither Goodyear nor Michelin have ever made
such a statemenet. Sounds to me like they have a serious design flaw
with too much weight on the FA.

Bruce
1988 FC35





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[birdshill123]

Mike: I have not been hiding. Am an old drag racer. I doubt that any
technology from M & H or the Goodyear drag tires mean anything to a
40,000 lb. motorohome. Same applies to oils and a lot of other race car
parts. A whole other world. But I do agree that Roger does have a lot
of OTR experience.

Bruce
1988 FC35

[Gregory OConnor]

Mike, I think Mr Penske doesn't know what tires are on his trucks. I
kind think it is a marketing thing to include notables in every press
release. I understand Hillary is looking for a bus sponcer for a
cross country campaign team.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptsame bus the future president drives
Romoland Ca

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> I didn't absorb the information the same as you, Bruce.
> The statement was "influence" from Mr. Penske. I suspect that Mr.
Penskes experience includes operation of more than a few semi-
trucks. Race car operations tend to travel a good bit around the
country with support vehicles loaded to the limit.
> The Newell post indicates problems started after the inclusion of
slide outs to the mix. Consumer demands require them, and
manufacturers hoping to stay solvent must comply.
> The result is obviously overloaded tires, problem being the tire
suppliers are at the limit of what is possible to provide as far load
bearing. I suspect the axle weights were discussed with the tire
suppliers, and I'll bet the tire guys said "no problem at all".
> Bluebird FC 35s were sent out to the end users with under sized
wheels (7.5" wide) and inflation pressures understated. Ford got in
a bunch of trouble with Firestone due to inflation misinformation.
It's a tough world out there trying to ad value and make a profit and
keep end users complaining to a minimum. Particularly as end users
tend to deny ALL personal responsibility, a shyster enhanced position.
> Like it or not, race car experience is used extensively to evaluate
designs and materials for virtually all applications in automotive
and truck components. I don't know where you have been hiding, but
it's been that way for a long time.
> Mike Hohnstein
> Germantown, WI
> 83FC35 with 24.5 Michelins
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: birdshill123
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:33 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell site
3 yr tires????????
>
>
> Very interesting information from Newell. I have to question the
> engineering ability of a comapny that would buy tires based on
race car
> experience. I bet they use nutrasystem because of sports
endorsements!!
> I also question the replacing of front tires every 3 years. This
sounds
> like a pure CYA statement. Neither Goodyear nor Michelin have
ever made
> such a statemenet. Sounds to me like they have a serious design
flaw
> with too much weight on the FA.
>
> Bruce
> 1988 FC35
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

As an active drag racer myself, let me ad, drag racing excluded.
Actually, off road and road course racing are the only real racing left. Nascar
has homogenized the cars to the extent that valve springs, cam shaft profiles
and shock absorbers are the only things left to putter with. Just my opinion.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: birdshill123
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:05 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell site 3 yr
tires????????


Mike: I have not been hiding. Am an old drag racer. I doubt that any
technology from M & H or the Goodyear drag tires mean anything to a
40,000 lb. motorohome. Same applies to oils and a lot of other race car
parts. A whole other world. But I do agree that Roger does have a lot
of OTR experience.

Bruce
1988 FC35





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Hohnstein]

Hey Greg, I wasn't talking to you.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory OConnor
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell site 3 yr
tires????????


Mike, I think Mr Penske doesn't know what tires are on his trucks. I
kind think it is a marketing thing to include notables in every press
release. I understand Hillary is looking for a bus sponcer for a
cross country campaign team.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptsame bus the future president drives
Romoland Ca

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> I didn't absorb the information the same as you, Bruce.
> The statement was "influence" from Mr. Penske. I suspect that Mr.
Penskes experience includes operation of more than a few semi-
trucks. Race car operations tend to travel a good bit around the
country with support vehicles loaded to the limit.
> The Newell post indicates problems started after the inclusion of
slide outs to the mix. Consumer demands require them, and
manufacturers hoping to stay solvent must comply.
> The result is obviously overloaded tires, problem being the tire
suppliers are at the limit of what is possible to provide as far load
bearing. I suspect the axle weights were discussed with the tire
suppliers, and I'll bet the tire guys said "no problem at all".
> Bluebird FC 35s were sent out to the end users with under sized
wheels (7.5" wide) and inflation pressures understated. Ford got in
a bunch of trouble with Firestone due to inflation misinformation.
It's a tough world out there trying to ad value and make a profit and
keep end users complaining to a minimum. Particularly as end users
tend to deny ALL personal responsibility, a shyster enhanced position.
> Like it or not, race car experience is used extensively to evaluate
designs and materials for virtually all applications in automotive
and truck components. I don't know where you have been hiding, but
it's been that way for a long time.
> Mike Hohnstein
> Germantown, WI
> 83FC35 with 24.5 Michelins
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: birdshill123
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:33 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell site
3 yr tires????????
>
>
> Very interesting information from Newell. I have to question the
> engineering ability of a comapny that would buy tires based on
race car
> experience. I bet they use nutrasystem because of sports
endorsements!!
> I also question the replacing of front tires every 3 years. This
sounds
> like a pure CYA statement. Neither Goodyear nor Michelin have
ever made
> such a statemenet. Sounds to me like they have a serious design
flaw
> with too much weight on the FA.
>
> Bruce
> 1988 FC35
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David Brady]

They have gotten heavy. Judging from these weights, they might
consider moving to the Michelin 365/70R22.5 load rating L which
would provide a load per wheel of 10500lb. They may also consider
a serious diet.

From the FMCA February 2006 Vol. 43 No. 2 Edition

Newell's Redesigned 2006 P2000i

Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) ... 79,580 pounds
Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) ... 59,580 pounds
Gross axle weight rating (GAWR) ... front — 18,180 pounds; rear — 26,400
pounds; tag — 15,000 pounds
Wet weight as tested ... front — 17,700 pounds; rear — 22,460 pounds;
tag — 13,740 pounds; total — 53,900 pounds
Payload ... 5,680 pounds

David B
'02 LXi, Smokey
NC


Mike Hohnstein wrote:
> Hey Greg, I wasn't talking to you.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gregory OConnor
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:29 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell site 3 yr
tires????????
>
>
> Mike, I think Mr Penske doesn't know what tires are on his trucks. I
> kind think it is a marketing thing to include notables in every press
> release. I understand Hillary is looking for a bus sponcer for a
> cross country campaign team.
>
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptsame bus the future president drives
> Romoland Ca
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
> >
> > I didn't absorb the information the same as you, Bruce.
> > The statement was "influence" from Mr. Penske. I suspect that Mr.
> Penskes experience includes operation of more than a few semi-
> trucks. Race car operations tend to travel a good bit around the
> country with support vehicles loaded to the limit.
> > The Newell post indicates problems started after the inclusion of
> slide outs to the mix. Consumer demands require them, and
> manufacturers hoping to stay solvent must comply.
> > The result is obviously overloaded tires, problem being the tire
> suppliers are at the limit of what is possible to provide as far load
> bearing. I suspect the axle weights were discussed with the tire
> suppliers, and I'll bet the tire guys said "no problem at all".
> > Bluebird FC 35s were sent out to the end users with under sized
> wheels (7.5" wide) and inflation pressures understated. Ford got in
> a bunch of trouble with Firestone due to inflation misinformation.
> It's a tough world out there trying to ad value and make a profit and
> keep end users complaining to a minimum. Particularly as end users
> tend to deny ALL personal responsibility, a shyster enhanced position.
> > Like it or not, race car experience is used extensively to evaluate
> designs and materials for virtually all applications in automotive
> and truck components. I don't know where you have been hiding, but
> it's been that way for a long time.
> > Mike Hohnstein
> > Germantown, WI
> > 83FC35 with 24.5 Michelins
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: birdshill123
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:33 AM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell site
> 3 yr tires????????
> >
> >
> > Very interesting information from Newell. I have to question the
> > engineering ability of a comapny that would buy tires based on
> race car
> > experience. I bet they use nutrasystem because of sports
> endorsements!!
> > I also question the replacing of front tires every 3 years. This
> sounds
> > like a pure CYA statement. Neither Goodyear nor Michelin have
> ever made
> > such a statemenet. Sounds to me like they have a serious design
> flaw
> > with too much weight on the FA.
> >
> > Bruce
> > 1988 FC35
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Ken Sann]

They might have a 5600lbs capacity, but only 480lbs on the front axle!
A 60,000lbs couach, and you can only load 480lbs on the front axle?
I weigh 200lbs. Add in a spouse and a kid sitting on a couch.....





ken
wannabe BB owner in SoCal

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Brady
>Sent: Jan 16, 2007 8:29 AM
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell site 3 yr
tires????????
>
>They have gotten heavy. Judging from these weights, they might
>consider moving to the Michelin 365/70R22.5 load rating L which
>would provide a load per wheel of 10500lb. They may also consider
>a serious diet.
>
> From the FMCA February 2006 Vol. 43 No. 2 Edition
>
>Newell's Redesigned 2006 P2000i
>
>Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) ... 79,580 pounds
>Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) ... 59,580 pounds
>Gross axle weight rating (GAWR) ... front — 18,180 pounds; rear — 26,400
>pounds; tag — 15,000 pounds
>Wet weight as tested ... front — 17,700 pounds; rear — 22,460 pounds;
>tag — 13,740 pounds; total — 53,900 pounds
>Payload ... 5,680 pounds
>
>David B
>'02 LXi, Smokey
>NC


Ken Sann

[freewill2008]

We probably have the lightest '84 FC on the planet. The scale weight
of the front axle is just over 9,000 pounds. We use Michelin 11x22.5
tires with a load capacity of about 12,000 pounds for the pair.

Dunno where 480 pounds came from, but it sounds like a typo.

Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA

>
> They might have a 5600lbs capacity, but only 480lbs on the front
axle!
> A 60,000lbs couach, and you can only load 480lbs on the front axle?
> I weigh 200lbs. Add in a spouse and a kid sitting on a couch.....
>
>
>
>
>
> ken
> wannabe BB owner in SoCal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: David Brady
> >Sent: Jan 16, 2007 8:29 AM
> >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: just a post from the newell
site 3 yr tires????????
> >
> >They have gotten heavy. Judging from these weights, they might
> >consider moving to the Michelin 365/70R22.5 load rating L which
> >would provide a load per wheel of 10500lb. They may also consider
> >a serious diet.
> >
> > From the FMCA February 2006 Vol. 43 No. 2 Edition
> >
> >Newell's Redesigned 2006 P2000i
> >
> >Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) ... 79,580 pounds
> >Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) ... 59,580 pounds
> >Gross axle weight rating (GAWR) ... front â€" 18,180 pounds; rear
â€" 26,400
> >pounds; tag â€" 15,000 pounds
> >Wet weight as tested ... front â€" 17,700 pounds; rear â€" 22,460
pounds;
> >tag â€" 13,740 pounds; total â€" 53,900 pounds
> >Payload ... 5,680 pounds
> >
> >David B
> >'02 LXi, Smokey
> >NC
>
>
> Ken Sann
>