tires------again

[Dan Saari]

I can buy a set of 8 Michelin XZE,s (12r22.5)........New vehical take
offs for $3400 includes installation, tax, & balanced ........only
thing is the DOT dates indicate 1 year old.........fresh tires will be
$4200........what do you guys think??..........Dan Saari

92WLWB 40ft.
Depere,Wi/Summerfield Fl.

[Jeff F]

Dan,
Sounds like a good deal to me. Tires need to be
replaced about every six years or sooner.
$4,200 / 6 years = $700 per year
$3,400 / 5 years = $680 per year
Regards,
Jeff

--- Dan Saari wrote:
> I can buy a set of 8 Michelin XZE,s
> (12r22.5)........New vehical take
> offs for $3400 includes installation, tax, &
> balanced ........only
> thing is the DOT dates indicate 1 year
> old.........fresh tires will be
> $4200........what do you guys think??..........Dan
> Saari
>
> 92WLWB 40ft.
> Depere,Wi/Summerfield Fl.
>
>
>
>



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

[Mike Hohnstein]

That's what I'd do. Save a little money, it's not a crime.
Mike Hohnstein
Germantown, WI
83FC35
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Saari
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 9:07 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] tires------again


I can buy a set of 8 Michelin XZE,s (12r22.5)........New vehical take
offs for $3400 includes installation, tax, & balanced ........only
thing is the DOT dates indicate 1 year old.........fresh tires will be
$4200........what do you guys think??..........Dan Saari

92WLWB 40ft.
Depere,Wi/Summerfield Fl.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

I would do it in a heartbeat if it were the tires I wanted. Michelin has a
new RV tire guide and surprisingly it does no longer specify how many years
before you change the tires. Used to be 5-6 years. It does have lots of
advise on how to properly take care of tires, like dont put a block of wood
under one dually wheel without the same support under the other one. Causes
cord breakage.

http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/rv/rv.jsp

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY
In the beautiful Mohawk Valley






At 07:17 PM 5/2/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>Dan,
>Sounds like a good deal to me. Tires need to be
>replaced about every six years or sooner.
>$4,200 / 6 years = $700 per year
>$3,400 / 5 years = $680 per year
>Regards,
> Jeff
>
>--- Dan Saari wrote:
> > I can buy a set of 8 Michelin XZE,s
> > (12r22.5)........New vehical take
> > offs for $3400 includes installation, tax, &
> > balanced ........only
> > thing is the DOT dates indicate 1 year
> > old.........fresh tires will be
> > $4200........what do you guys think??..........Dan
> > Saari
> >
> > 92WLWB 40ft.
> > Depere,Wi/Summerfield Fl.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
><http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resou\
rces/
>
>
>
>----------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> *
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/W\
anderlodgeForum/
>
> *
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> *
>
Wanderl\
odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> *
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[George Lowry]

Dan,

I paid only $2700 for 8 Toyo 12R22.5 tires that were brand new -
manufacture date less than a month old. And the Toyo has a stronger
side wall than the Michelin...

George Lowry
'95 WBDA 4203 & GM 4106 (for sale)
Spearfish, SD

Dan Saari wrote:
> I can buy a set of 8 Michelin XZE,s (12r22.5)........New vehical take
> offs for $3400 includes installation, tax, & balanced ........only
> thing is the DOT dates indicate 1 year old.........fresh tires will be
> $4200........what do you guys think??..........Dan Saari
>
> 92WLWB 40ft.
> Depere,Wi/Summerfield Fl.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Jeff Miller]

Why would you need a "stronger" sidewall? Driving through
construction sites with a load of gravel? City bus service rubbing
curbs? Stiffer/thicker is not always better. In fact from an
engineering standpoint, the flex/strain has to be distributed over as
large an area as possible for good tire service. The
Michelin's "soft" sidewall flexes over its entire surface avoiding
the stress-riser effect of a stiff sidewall which will flex more at
the tread/sidewall junction where a "zipper failure" is so very
common.

I'll take the Michelins. Air holds up the coach, the sidewall holds
in the air. My last Toyos lasted 23months (from DOT sidewall date)
before I took them off due to sidewall cracks.

I know that there is a lot of opinion regarding tire manufacturers,
but my personal experience has been that I have had failures and
trouble with every brand that I have owned on a 'Bird (Toyo,
Bridgestone, Goodyear, Firestone, Dunlop) except for the Michelins. I
am including BFG tires made by Michelin in the latter group. I have
had more than twice as many Michelins as all other brands combined,
and the Michelins were often original equipment and up to 23years old
when I buy the coach and some significantly cracked. Still, it is the
younger and non-cracked SOB tires that blow out on my way home (5 to
date) not the Michelins. The Michelins also enjoy being more
desirable when selling a coach, and worth more at trade-in time at
tire dealers as (according to my dealer) they retread very well and
truckers like the long service life (7 years / 700,000mile warranty
for the XZA-2 in truck service). Michelin is standard equipment on
most high-end trucks, buses, and RVs.

If the Michelins are a good deal, I'd say buy them. I'm not
discounting the value of saving a buck on a less-expensive product,
but I'm a bit of a safety freak and don't skimp on tires.

As far as tire life and failures, I will go on the record as saying
it is not the age, but the condition. Age does affect condition, but
if the tire is treated well and in desirable conditions it will last
significantly longer and age more slowly than if in agressive
conditions and not properly cared for.

Good conditions: Cool, Dry, inside or protected from light (U.V.)
which includes protection from some inside lighting, low ozone (not
next to a welding station or brush-type motors for example), isolated
from concrete (I prefer HDPE cutting boards from Sam's Club, double
as leveling pads) or other ground, cleaned frequently with soft brush
and mild soap-and-water, kept properly inflated (or higher when
parked), not run over speed or overloaded/underinflated, high-temp
running might require more air pressure or less speed. Supporting the
coach with leveling jacks might also help the tires.

Less desirable: High sun load outside, higher temps accelerate aging,
Ozone exposure, run hot/overloaded/underinflated, parked for extended
periods without isolation from concrete etc., infrequently cleaned or
treated with a tire dressing that is not compatible with the tire
(most tire mfgrs suggest no tire dressings) and damage from
curbs/road hazards (I'm likely missing something here).

My tires have typically been on a coach in west Michigan (near zero
direct sunlight, moderate to cold temperatures) under trees at my
house on pads, weight on leveling system, inside when not-used for
extended periods, tire pressure correct, cleaned after every trip,
never overloaded or underinflated, driven more slowly in hot road +
weather) and tend to last a long time. My first set of Michelins were
a little over 10years old when I sold them to a busnut, no cracks,
got $100/ea and he was very happy. After replacing those with
Dunlops, then Goodyears, I went back to Michelin for the more
desirable effect of round tires ;~)

If you don't know the tires' history, it is difficult to determine
whether they have ever been run overtemp (usually from
underinflation). If the tire has ever been overheated, its life has
been significantly decreased and it can fail without warning. The
tire will begin to delaminate internally, leading to the classic
tread separation or a "zipper failure" where the tread leaves the
casing or the sidewall. This cannot be detected externally but most
tire dealers can tell you what happened in the post-mortem if you
still have enough tire. Overheating sometimes leaves a tell-tale dull
stripe near the base of the tread, but not always.

Some of those among us "snow birds" types who travel south and north
a bit notice how much rubber you dodge on the southbound freeways as
the weather warms up. Marginal tires get to warmer roads and warmer
air and overheat, eventually failing. The same stretches of highway
northbound usually have far less "gators" (tire-tread strips).

What I read about two years ago regarding a study of truck-tire
failure (the 11Rx22.5 is a truck tire) is that the most common
failure of these tires including retreaded ones is
underinflation/overloading. Look for an inflation guide for your
tires (Michelin has one on their site, Toyo did also when I had my
Toyos, probably still does, Bridgestone/Firestone does). Inflate
tires to the worst-case loading (weigh each tire position, remember
the effect of full vs empty tanks, especially on rear-tank coaches
like the FC where the front axle is heaviest with empty fuel and
water, full waste). Dual tires should be same
size/construction/wear/inflation in a pair. Check the speed rating of
the tires (most are 75mph, some older tires are 65 like older XZE
tires, so an additional 10psi might be required for 75mph travel per
MFGR information). Stop on hot/sunny days and check the sunny-side
tire temperature, ... without a temp gauge you will notice that a hot
day will be enough to make your hand sting when touching the
sidewall, slow down some. There is a matrix: Heat comes from tire
flex. More flex comes from more load. More air pressure reduces flex.
Localized flexing (too stiff a sidewall?) can cause localized high-
pressure and fatigue or delamination. More speed, more load, less
pressure, hotter road, sunlight, all cause more heat. Less speed,
less load, more air pressure (within mfgr guidelines) will reduce
tire temperatures.

Sorry to be long-winded, but I feel that posting a couple of
website/urls of tire guides tells part of the story only. Similarly,
telling people that any tire in any application is good for X number
of years from DOT date is also not IMO useful. Well-kept high-quality
tires with a known history have run my coaches for many years, I have
been able to inspect the inside after dismounting them, even used 20-
year-old Equal over in a new set of tires at a tire dealer's
suggestion. Treat tires well and they'll treat you well. Abuse them
and don't expect even 3years out of them.

- Jeff Miller
http://www.wanderlodge.net
http://www.millercoachworks.com


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, George Lowry
wrote:
> Dan,
>
> I paid only $2700 for 8 Toyo 12R22.5 tires that were brand new -
> manufacture date less than a month old. And the Toyo has a
stronger
> side wall than the Michelin...<<snip>>

[David Brady]

Folks,

I just purchased an infrared thermometer to use
to measure my tires' temperatures. I assume that
temp readings should be taken directly from the
tread of the tire. What range of temperature is
considered normal?

TIA,
David Brady
'02 LXi, Smokey
Virginia

Jeff Miller wrote:

> Why would you need a "stronger" sidewall? Driving through
> construction sites with a load of gravel? City bus service rubbing
> curbs? Stiffer/thicker is not always better. In fact from an
> engineering standpoint, the flex/strain has to be distributed over as
> large an area as possible for good tire service. The
> Michelin's "soft" sidewall flexes over its entire surface avoiding
> the stress-riser effect of a stiff sidewall which will flex more at
> the tread/sidewall junction where a "zipper failure" is so very
> common...




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.2 - Release Date: 5/2/2005

[George Lowry]

Jeff,
My experience with the Michelins has been completely different from
what you must have experienced. My first experience with the Michelin
was about thirty years ago. I had a pair of the Michelin tires which
failed twice in five years. IOW, the original pair was replaced under
warranty and that pair was replaced again all within five years.

What is remarkable is that I had a pair of Sears tires that were made
by michelin that I had purchased a year before the Michelins and they
ran with NO problems. Perhaps Sears had a higher standard for a tire
that bore their name than Michelin did.

My last experience with Michelin was last year. The WL we has bought
has the Michelins on it and they may have been abused, I don't know.
The previous owner owned a trucking company so I would think he would
be knowledgeable about proper tire care. However, as we were
traveling north on I-5 at approximately 55 mph (which is the speed
limit when towing) the right tag tire shredded. Not a simple blowout.

The damage from a tire failure can be substantial. I figure I got off
easy with approx. $500 - 1,000 of damage. It could have easily gone
into the thousands of dollars to the possibility of complete loss.
Good tires are cheap insurance.

Perhaps in your neck of the woods, Michelin has a good sales program,
but as I have surveyed trucks and buses on the west coast, I have seen
more Toyos than Michelins on the road. This is my first time with the
Toyo and so far it has driven as well and rides as smooth as the
Michelins that were on the coach. I just know that I will never have
another Michelin on ANY vehicle that I own. YMMV.

When you are dealing only with the older, lighter MH's, I guess you
don't need the stronger tires, but when you get to 50,000# and more, I
want the extra safety. I have been averaging over 15,000 miles in my
motor coach for the last ten years and when we get rid of the farm,
expect to be putting on more. I don't trust Michelins.

There are a lot of AMERICAN made tires out there that are as good or
better than anything made in France. I prefer to support our own
companies when possible. Take a look at Cooper, Kelly-Springfield and
others...

George


Why would you need a "stronger" sidewall? Driving through
construction sites with a load of gravel? City bus service rubbing
curbs? Stiffer/thicker is not always better. In fact from an
engineering standpoint, the flex/strain has to be distributed over as
large an area as possible for good tire service. The
Michelin's "soft" sidewall flexes over its entire surface avoiding
the stress-riser effect of a stiff sidewall which will flex more at
the tread/sidewall junction where a "zipper failure" is so very
common.

Jeff

> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, George Lowry
> wrote:
>
>>Dan,
>>
>>I paid only $2700 for 8 Toyo 12R22.5 tires that were brand new -
>>manufacture date less than a month old. And the Toyo has a
>
> stronger
>
>>side wall than the Michelin...<<snip>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[judy2gene]

Hello, Tires are a matter of choice, but not all are equal. Several
basic rules should apply.
one: do not mix brands.
two: do not mix sizes.
three: do not mix types unless they are designed to do so.
four: we will not get the same results using the same
brand because of driving habits, types of roads used and area
of the country.
five: heat is one of the major causes for a tire to fail.
six: look at your tires. check your pressures.
keep the sun off the rubber and keep off cement, do
not use any thing to clean but warm water&brush-cleaners will
draw out the oils from the tire which may cause cracking.
good points made by Jeff and All.
another day !
Gene

Judy & Gene Sharp
93' Wanderlodge 8V92 500 40' 2001 Jeep GC 6
Ohio





In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, George Lowry wrote:
> Jeff,
> My experience with the Michelins has been completely different from
> what you must have experienced. My first experience with the Michelin
> was about thirty years ago. I had a pair of the Michelin tires which
> failed twice in five years. IOW, the original pair was replaced under
> warranty and that pair was replaced again all within five years.
>
> What is remarkable is that I had a pair of Sears tires that were made
> by michelin that I had purchased a year before the Michelins and they
> ran with NO problems. Perhaps Sears had a higher standard for a tire
> that bore their name than Michelin did.
>
> My last experience with Michelin was last year. The WL we has bought
> has the Michelins on it and they may have been abused, I don't know.
> The previous owner owned a trucking company so I would think he would
> be knowledgeable about proper tire care. However, as we were
> traveling north on I-5 at approximately 55 mph (which is the speed
> limit when towing) the right tag tire shredded. Not a simple blowout.
>
> The damage from a tire failure can be substantial. I figure I got off
> easy with approx. $500 - 1,000 of damage. It could have easily gone
> into the thousands of dollars to the possibility of complete loss.
> Good tires are cheap insurance.
>
> Perhaps in your neck of the woods, Michelin has a good sales program,
> but as I have surveyed trucks and buses on the west coast, I have seen
> more Toyos than Michelins on the road. This is my first time with the
> Toyo and so far it has driven as well and rides as smooth as the
> Michelins that were on the coach. I just know that I will never have
> another Michelin on ANY vehicle that I own. YMMV.
>
> When you are dealing only with the older, lighter MH's, I guess you
> don't need the stronger tires, but when you get to 50,000# and more, I
> want the extra safety. I have been averaging over 15,000 miles in my
> motor coach for the last ten years and when we get rid of the farm,
> expect to be putting on more. I don't trust Michelins.
>
> There are a lot of AMERICAN made tires out there that are as good or
> better than anything made in France. I prefer to support our own
> companies when possible. Take a look at Cooper, Kelly-Springfield and
> others...
>
> George
>
>
> Why would you need a "stronger" sidewall? Driving through
> construction sites with a load of gravel? City bus service rubbing
> curbs? Stiffer/thicker is not always better. In fact from an
> engineering standpoint, the flex/strain has to be distributed over as
> large an area as possible for good tire service. The
> Michelin's "soft" sidewall flexes over its entire surface avoiding
> the stress-riser effect of a stiff sidewall which will flex more at
> the tread/sidewall junction where a "zipper failure" is so very
> common.
>
> Jeff
>
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, George Lowry
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Dan,
> >>
> >>I paid only $2700 for 8 Toyo 12R22.5 tires that were brand new -
> >>manufacture date less than a month old. And the Toyo has a
> >
> > stronger
> >
> >>side wall than the Michelin...<<snip>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >