Wet sleeve explained

[Gregory OConnor]

you would think that a small line like that would have set the Ddec
to run the bus at idle then demand a shutDown???? I might force a
fault code by disconnecting the sensor at the puke tank to test the
Ddec?

could be that looking for the cause,the tec grabbed the line which
fell apart in his hand. I think the trapped heat back at the
compressor is what dries out those lines. when they get oil on them
the heat cooks off the oil and dries out the cloth? web rubber.

Greg94pt

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
<mbulriss@...> wrote:
>
> Before we go down too many what-if avenues on this, Ron told me
early
> on that the DD shop thinks the compressor coolant lines burst
causing
> a loss of coolant. The loss of engine coolant resulted in
overheating
> and ultimate loss of the engine. I am sure Ron will be around to
> verify if that was the case or not when he gets some time to check
> in. Those compressor coolant lines have been the topic of much
recent
> discussion and I think it is time to check mine soon!
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Forman"
> <scottforman75@> wrote:
> >
> > So the big question is...is there something, anything, that can
be
> > done to prevent this failure?
> >
> > Scott Forman
> > 86 PT38
> > Can't afford a $30k rebuild
> > Memphis
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ron,
> > > Sorry for the trouble. We were parked next to you in Q last
year.
> > > Have you considered getting a lowboy to take the bus south to
a
> > > better dealer and maybe a lower price? It would get you out of
the
> > > weather.
> > > Bob Lawrence
> > > 84 PT36
> > > Branson, Mo.
> > >
> > > > Up there, it would be close to the same and be 10 to 12
weeks out,
> > > > putting me in the winter and probably hard to get home.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
<mbulriss@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Good grief Ron! Sorry!
> > > > > $25-30K for an in-frame?
> > > > > How much for a reman replacement with a nationwide
warranty?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt: You got off lightly. I am looking at 5 to 6
times
> > that
> > > amount.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Horvath"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ron,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sorry that you are grounded. Words can't begin to
console a
> > > coach
> > > > > > > owner with a broke motor. Been there done that, three
> > months
> > > after
> > > > > > > buying my coach. New cam & stuff $5K. Best you can
hope for
> > > is they
> > > > > > > do a good job and you get the warranty. Anytime this
> > happens
> > > I just
> > > > > > > tell them fix it like it was yours and walk away. Say
a
> > little
> > > > prayer
> > > > > > > that it works out. When they are done with it go back
up
> > > there, get
> > > > > > > your coach and DRIVE BABY DRIVE! It's your only good
option.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > 95 PT-42
> > > > > > > 10AC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They already have it torn down. It would cost a
bundle to
> > > > just put
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > back together to get it back. Heads overheated, but
I
> > have
> > > no
> > > > way
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > knowing if they are really damaged or not. Overheat
> > plugs
> > > did
> > > > melt.
> > > > > > > > I'm pretty much at their mercy. If they only
replaced
> > the
> > > two
> > > > > > > damaged
> > > > > > > > sleeves that are obvious and the engine failed again
on
> > the
> > > return
> > > > > > > > trip, I would not have any warranty at all. Most of
the
> > > overheat
> > > > > > > > happened after the shut down because most of the
coolant
> > was
> > > > dumped.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory
OConnor"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I posted that for you to have some insight info
when
> > the
> > > shop
> > > > > > > > > called. Kinda thought it was a sleeve seal when
you
> > said
> > > it
> > > > > > > emptied
> > > > > > > > > quick. a cracked head and waterpump gasket would
take
> > some
> > > > time.
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > can always only drop in a sleeve to repair the bad
one
> > if
> > > you
> > > > > > > didnt
> > > > > > > > > get things too hot. the garage is gonna sell you
the
> > > works
> > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > they can and it is sure to get any other issue
that may
> > or
> > > > maynot
> > > > > > > > > exist delt with.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > get a price on dropping in some sleves or just the
one
> > to
> > > bring
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > to a local with better US craftsmanship. a trap
door in
> > > the
> > > > > > > bedroom
> > > > > > > > > closet would speed a rebuild up and reduce labor
cost.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I hope you get it going for Quartzsite,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Greg: I can tell you first hand now, that a
sleeved
> > > > engine is
> > > > > > > > > flawed
> > > > > > > > > > and the failure of any seal, unless it is
idling,
> > will
> > > cause
> > > > > > > > > > catastrophic failure and total rebuild. This is
true
> > > > > > > especially if
> > > > > > > > > > you expect any kind of warranty on the work.
Your
> > > > warranty for
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > partial is only 30 days. BIG DEAL!.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I just lost my engine in less than 1.5
minutes
> > from
> > > first
> > > > > > > > > > indication of a problem.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm sure the whole purpose behind the
sleeved
> > engine
> > > > is less
> > > > > > > > > > weight and cost in manufacture, but it makes the
user
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > scapegoat in
> > > > > > > > > > the case of any failure. To make matters worse,
the
> > > warranty
> > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > > re-build is awful as it related to motorhome
use. The
> > > > factory
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > gives you 12 months and unlimited mileage. A
> > > commercial
> > > > > > > vehicle
> > > > > > > > > such
> > > > > > > > > > as a long-haul truck can log up to 50,000 miles
in
> > that
> > > 12
> > > > > > > months
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > it is a good warranty. The average motorhome
owner
> > only
> > > > puts on
> > > > > > > > > > around 10,000 miles in the same period and
usually
> > less
> > > than
> > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > > > Not much of a warranty under those conditions.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I could purchase a used FC for the price of
one
> > > engine
> > > > > > > > > failure in
> > > > > > > > > > a Detroit 8V92.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Detroit gives much better warranties on the
> > Series
> > > > 60, but
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > is a sleeved engine. I wonder what the failure
> > record
> > > is on
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > one?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > > > > > > > Currently sitting in Calgary, Alberta (Broken)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory
> > > OConnor"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > here is a video on wet sleeve vs dry. it also
> > depicts
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > importance on
> > > > > > > > > > > maintaining coolant integrity. 8v92 6v92 and
series
> > > 60 are
> > > > > > > wet
> > > > > > > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > > > > > the kubota gensets are drySleeved.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > the two stroke V92's have intake/exhaust
ports on
> > > the
> > > > side
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > sleeve and require more sealing surface .
minor
> > > pitting
> > > > near
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > seal on
> > > > > > > > > > > the waterside can let the seal go. and dump
coolant
> > > in the
> > > > > > > oil.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > cylinder sleeve video
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > <http://video.google.com/videosearch?
gbv=2&hl=en&safe=off&q=wet%
> > > > > > > > > 20sleeve\
> > > > > > > > > > > %20cross&ndsp=20&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iv#q=wet%
> > 20sleeve%
> > > > > > > > > 20&hl=en&emb=0> The
> > > > > > > > > > > FC and SP 3208's have not a sleeve so a
single
> > > cylinder
> > > > > > > > > inframe is not
> > > > > > > > > > > possible. some call the 3208 'throwaway
engines'
> > > > because it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > always
> > > > > > > > > > > completly rebuilt at the failure of one
cylinder
> > wall
> > > > (3208's
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > notorious for waterjacket issues at one
cylinder so
> > > coolant
> > > > > > > > > integrity is
> > > > > > > > > > > as important). problem with a sleeved engine
is
> > > once your
> > > > > > > > > engine
> > > > > > > > > > > looses coolant you cant tell how compramise
all the
> > > other
> > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > are and
> > > > > > > > > > > a total rebuild is prudent. kinda think that
is why
> > > private
> > > > > > > > > coaches are
> > > > > > > > > > > rebuilt more often than just repaired
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[erniecarpet@...]

Curt, Ron's internet access is in his coach. He has to go to the library to get online. Another inconvenience for him, I'm sure

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Livingston, Montana

---

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[Leroy A. Eckert]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
wrote:

Ron, just read your original post an your unfortunate engine failure.
I am wondering why you did not at a minimum receive a check engine
light and buzzer when the radiator fluid level passed the sensor in
the radiator reservoir tank. That should happen immediately upon the
condition existing. My sensor is about 1" above the site glass. When
the fluid passed that sensor it should have activated the auto shut
down system that is activated by the solid state low coolant module
and theoretically kept from completely frying the engine after the
seal failure.. My coolant module is up front in the lower load center.
Since mine has this module, I am confidant that it is tied into a time
delay switch which activates a shutdown solenoid, oil pressure switch,
fuel pressure switch, coolant level probe, coolant temperature, and
coolant level relay. If I understand my system correctly it would have
shut down the engine in 10 seconds(as stated in the Detroit Service
Manual) after receiving the low coolant indication. It would
theoretically do the same with high water temp (203 degrees)or low oil
pressure(extended period below 8-10 pounds).
There are tests in the manual to check this electrical system. I plan
to perform these tests on my coach. I just have to find the time delay
module.
The Detroit folks are surely aware of this system. According to the
manual, there are several configurations. Since mine is solid state
electrical I would think yours is also. Just something to consider for
the future.
This system and related tests is set forth on page 8-43 of the Series
92 Service Manual. The other configurations are set forth in prior pages.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

>
> Greg: The unfortunate thing is: it was a perfect running bus.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> wrote:
> >
> > I wished it was a simple fix. The good thing is now you will have
> > a perfect running dependable Bus. Maybe Paulson can include the
> > repair tab in his package???
> >
> >
> > Greg and Tim
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > They already have it torn down. It would cost a bundle to just
> > put it
> > > back together to get it back. Heads overheated, but I have no way
> > of
> > > knowing if they are really damaged or not. Overheat plugs did
> > melt.
> > > I'm pretty much at their mercy. If they only replaced the two
> > damaged
> > > sleeves that are obvious and the engine failed again on the return
> > > trip, I would not have any warranty at all. Most of the overheat
> > > happened after the shut down because most of the coolant was
> > dumped.
> > >
> > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I posted that for you to have some insight info when the shop
> > > > called. Kinda thought it was a sleeve seal when you said it
> > emptied
> > > > quick. a cracked head and waterpump gasket would take some time.
> > you
> > > > can always only drop in a sleeve to repair the bad one if you
> > didnt
> > > > get things too hot. the garage is gonna sell you the works
> > because
> > > > they can and it is sure to get any other issue that may or
> > maynot
> > > > exist delt with.
> > > >
> > > > get a price on dropping in some sleves or just the one to bring
> > it
> > > > to a local with better US craftsmanship. a trap door in the
> > bedroom
> > > > closet would speed a rebuild up and reduce labor cost.
> > > >
> > > > I hope you get it going for Quartzsite,
> > > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg: I can tell you first hand now, that a sleeved engine is
> > > > flawed
> > > > > and the failure of any seal, unless it is idling, will cause
> > > > > catastrophic failure and total rebuild. This is true
> > especially if
> > > > > you expect any kind of warranty on the work. Your warranty
> > for a
> > > > > partial is only 30 days. BIG DEAL!.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just lost my engine in less than 1.5 minutes from first
> > > > > indication of a problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure the whole purpose behind the sleeved engine is
> > less
> > > > > weight and cost in manufacture, but it makes the user the
> > > > scapegoat in
> > > > > the case of any failure. To make matters worse, the warranty
> > for a
> > > > > re-build is awful as it related to motorhome use. The factory
> > only
> > > > > gives you 12 months and unlimited mileage. A commercial
> > vehicle
> > > > such
> > > > > as a long-haul truck can log up to 50,000 miles in that 12
> > months
> > > > and
> > > > > it is a good warranty. The average motorhome owner only puts
> > on
> > > > > around 10,000 miles in the same period and usually less than
> > that.
> > > > > Not much of a warranty under those conditions.
> > > > >
> > > > > I could purchase a used FC for the price of one engine
> > > > failure in
> > > > > a Detroit 8V92.
> > > > >
> > > > > Detroit gives much better warranties on the Series 60,
> > but it
> > > > too
> > > > > is a sleeved engine. I wonder what the failure record is on
> > that
> > > > one?
> > > > >
> > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > > Currently sitting in Calgary, Alberta (Broken)
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > here is a video on wet sleeve vs dry. it also depicts the
> > > > importance on
> > > > > > maintaining coolant integrity. 8v92 6v92 and series 60 are
> > wet
> > > > sleeve
> > > > > > the kubota gensets are drySleeved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the two stroke V92's have intake/exhaust ports on the side
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > sleeve and require more sealing surface . minor pitting near
> > a
> > > > seal on
> > > > > > the waterside can let the seal go. and dump coolant in the
> > oil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > cylinder sleeve video
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > <http://video.google.com/videosearch?
> > gbv=2&hl=en&safe=off&q=wet%
> > > > 20sleeve\
> > > > > > %20cross&ndsp=20&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iv#q=wet%20sleeve%
> > > > 20&hl=en&emb=0> The
> > > > > > FC and SP 3208's have not a sleeve so a single cylinder
> > > > inframe is not
> > > > > > possible. some call the 3208 'throwaway engines' because
> > it is
> > > > always
> > > > > > completly rebuilt at the failure of one cylinder wall
> > (3208's are
> > > > > > notorious for waterjacket issues at one cylinder so coolant
> > > > integrity is
> > > > > > as important). problem with a sleeved engine is once your
> > > > engine
> > > > > > looses coolant you cant tell how compramise all the other
> > seals
> > > > are and
> > > > > > a total rebuild is prudent. kinda think that is why private
> > > > coaches are
> > > > > > rebuilt more often than just repaired
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>