Synthetic vs. Dino

[whynotam]

From the for what it's worth department.

After speaking with one of the members of this forum about the value
of synthetic versus dino oil (thanks Bob) for my 1993 8V92 I made
the switch from straight Rotella 40W to Amsoil 15W40. The results
have been nothing short of amazing as oil consumption went from
around 1 quart per 250 miles to about 1 quart per 850 miles when I
am pushing it hard, to pretty much nothing when driving 55 or 60
MPH. The 40W used to get that diesel black color within a couple
hundred miles of an oil change whereas the synthetic oil is still
quite clear even after 3200 miles. The engine used to smoke some
when leaving a stop light but now has to be fully floored to put out
much smoke at all. The coolant is also not running quite as warm
thus the fan is seldom kicking in any more. More than likely fuel
consumption has also decreased but since I do not keep track I can't
vouch for that. It is quite obvious to me that something good has
taken place with my change from dino oil to synthetic. Next step is
to change the other lubricants as well. I am not trying to start a
war here but am just relaying my experience "for what it's worth".

Alvie Miller
1993 WLWB
Arthur IL.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> Thank you Tom. I would have put you in the non-believer camp.
Enjoy
> your Walmart Dino Oil.
>
> Mike Bulriss - I won the bet! I won the bet!
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> >
> > Mike you may be correct but I cannot find anywhere that ANY
> > syntheitcs are recommended for use in the Detroit diesel 2 cycle
> > engine. The statement in sect 3.7 that you quote " only
synthetic
> > oils which do not contain viscosity improver additives may be
used"
> > disqualifies all multigrade synthetics since viscosity improvers
are
> > used. I can buy Rotella T single grade at Walmarts and it is
easily
> availble.
> >
> > http://www.shell-lubricants.com/products...llaTSG.pdf
> > Tom Warner
> > Vernon Center,NY
> > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon for $35K or best offer)
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> > At 02:04 PM 4/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >Ron,
> > >
> > >Re your comments:
> > >
> > > > The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't use synthetics,
> > > > unless someone starts producing a single weight synthetic.
> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5
> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > >
> > >Just FYI, Detroit's current statement on synthetics is as
follows:
> > >3.7 SYNTHETIC OILS
> > >Synthetic oils should be used in Detroit Diesel engines
provided they
> > >are API licensed and meet the performance and chemical
requirements
> > >outlined in this publication. The oil should be a PGOS 93K214
approved
> > >product for use in EGR equipped engines. For two-stroke cycle
> > >engines, only synthetic oils which do not contain viscosity
improver
> > >additives may be used.
> > >
> > >I have been using Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine
Oil in
> > >both my Birds. Generally speaking, "W"/multigrade oils have to
pass
> > >both the low viscosity and high viscosity tests. The Amsoil
oil does
> > >and passes all tests that are required for straight 40 oil -
and all
> > >the requirements for a straight 40 oil listed in the Detroit
> > >publication. My 8V and my old 6V both had approximately 15lbs
at idle
> > >on synthetic.
> > >
> > >You are right that the single weight synthetics are impossible
to find
> > >any more. The market wasn't big enough for manufacturers to
continue
> > >to make it. The new generation multi-weight synthetics perform
just
> > >as well as the straight weights.
> > >
> > >Generally, synthetic versus non-synthetic debates are split
into the
> > >true believer and non-believer camps. With the current prices,
the
> > >price delta is narrowing. If one believes that cheaper dino oil
> > >performs as well as synthetics, then that's their comfort
factor. If
> > >one believes that synthetics don't break down like dino oil,
reduce
> > >friction, which reduces heat, and are better at protecting an
> > >expensive investment, then that is what they will use. All the
rest
> > >is just rethoric that will convince neither party. Mark me
down as
> > >true believer/user since 1979.
> > >
> > >Mike Bulriss
> > >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - full of Amsoil
> > >San Antonio, TX
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I agree mostly with what you say, but with a couple
exceptions.
> First
> > > > with engine oil: The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't
use
> > > > synthetics, unless someone starts producing a single weight
> synthetic.
> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5
> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > > >
> > > > I use Transynd in my Allison because I have a transmission
retarder.
> > > > Since I drive a lot in the mountains, the synthetic holds up
better
> > > > with the heat stress that is created using the retarder. I
> agree with
> > > > natural fluids if that were not the case.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner

> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Each of us has to make our own decisions relative to how
we will
> > > > > service our engines and transmissions, what kind and brand
of
> tires
> > > > > to use etc, etc etc, ad nauseum. But in my experience
> starting with
> > > > > High Fidelity in the 1950's many bought based on the hype
of
> > > > > manufacturers taunting the fantastic frequency repsonses
of their
> > > > > equipment. Of course the better the specifications the
higher the
> > > > > price. Problem is that many who bought the highest speced
> equipment
> > > > > and paid sky high prices for it, seldom used it and had no
ear to
> > > > > differentiate the difference. Yep I was one of those.
> > > > >
> > > > > And in my opinion this very closely relates to the use of
> synthetic
> > > > > motor oils and transmission fluids used in motorhomes that
are
> driven
> > > > > very few miles a year. If you notice on the Allison
> transmission site
> > > > > that was
> > > noted
> > >
>
<<http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.co
m/qs3a9,
> > > > > and then go to Approved C4 fluids you will note that
Dextron 3
> is an
> > > > > approved fluid and meets all of Allisons specifications.
In other
> > > > > words it meets ALL of the Allison specifications..period,
as
> do over
> > > > > 700 other brands! But note that Allison now recommends
> changing the
> > > > > C4 specification transmission lubricants at 12,000 mile
> intervals or
> > > > > every 6 months which ever comes first. Isnt it strange that
> the over
> > > > > the previous 50 years or so truckers all over the world
never,ever
> > > > > followed this regimine and racked up in excess of 500,000
miles on
> > > > > them without a problem? Wonder how many Allison
transmissions in
> > > > > motorhome service have never had their fluid changed since
> > > > > manufacture? And note if you do use Transynd the
transmission
> fluid
> > > > > change interval is 75,000 miles or 36 months. We are not
going to
> > > > > hit the 75,000 mile in 3 years, at least I dont plan to, so
> every 3
> > > > > years I would have to change the transmission fluid after
> travelling
> > > > > approximately 15,000-20,000 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now go to the list of approved Allison TES-295 approved
> transmission
> > > > > fluids, which is a severe duty extended drain interval
> transmission
> > > > > fluid. Note that Amsoil, that you have noted in
> > > > > http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW* is
NOT
> listed
> > > > > as an Allison TES-295 approved fluid.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I have noted many times previously todays engine oils
and
> > > > > transmission fluids meet or exceed any kind of service we
put our
> > > > > motorhomes thru. If you drive sensibly Dextron 3 for the
> transmission
> > > > > and good dino oil is fine for the diesel engine.
> > > > > tom warner
> > > > > Vernon center,NY
> > > > > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon)
> > > > > 1985 PT40
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 09:24 AM 4/6/2006, you wrote:
> > > > > >Bob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'm no expert, but I am fortunate enough to have a long-
time
> friend
> > > > > >nearby that is an Allison Transmission Specialist, and
> services our
> > > > > >bus. On his professional recommendation, we changed out
the
> filters
> > > > > >and added TranSynd, synthetic fluid.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
><<http://www.allisontransmission.com/>http://www.allisontransmissio
> > > n.com/>http://www.allisontransmission.com/
> > > > >
><http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW*>h
> > > ttp://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivetr....htm#*NEW*
> > > > >
><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tiny
> > > url.com/qs3a9
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ron, No. California
> > > > > >85PT36
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how long
does
> it last
> > > > > > > before needing rechanging?
> > > > > > > Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in
there now
> > > > (changing
> > > > > > > it out, of course).
> > > > > > > What think you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bob Lawrence
> > > > > > > 84 pt36
> > > > > > > Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on the
road.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----------
> > > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * Visit your group
> > > > > >
> > >
> "<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yah
oo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> > > > on the web.
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > *
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> > subject=Unsubscribe>WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > > > >
> > >
>
<<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>Yahoo!
>
> > > Terms of Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----------
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > * Visit your group
> >
> "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> on the web.
> > > *
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > *
> > >
> subject=Unsubscribe>WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> > >
> > > *
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> >
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

Thanks for your insight. How many miles traveled are you basing your report?
In other words, how many miles accumulated since the oil change?
Mike Hohnstein
Germantown, WI
83FC35
----- Original Message -----
From: whynotam
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:47 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Synthetic vs. Dino


From the for what it's worth department.

After speaking with one of the members of this forum about the value
of synthetic versus dino oil (thanks Bob) for my 1993 8V92 I made
the switch from straight Rotella 40W to Amsoil 15W40. The results
have been nothing short of amazing as oil consumption went from
around 1 quart per 250 miles to about 1 quart per 850 miles when I
am pushing it hard, to pretty much nothing when driving 55 or 60
MPH. The 40W used to get that diesel black color within a couple
hundred miles of an oil change whereas the synthetic oil is still
quite clear even after 3200 miles. The engine used to smoke some
when leaving a stop light but now has to be fully floored to put out
much smoke at all. The coolant is also not running quite as warm
thus the fan is seldom kicking in any more. More than likely fuel
consumption has also decreased but since I do not keep track I can't
vouch for that. It is quite obvious to me that something good has
taken place with my change from dino oil to synthetic. Next step is
to change the other lubricants as well. I am not trying to start a
war here but am just relaying my experience "for what it's worth".

Alvie Miller
1993 WLWB
Arthur IL.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> Thank you Tom. I would have put you in the non-believer camp.
Enjoy
> your Walmart Dino Oil.
>
> Mike Bulriss - I won the bet! I won the bet!
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> >
> > Mike you may be correct but I cannot find anywhere that ANY
> > syntheitcs are recommended for use in the Detroit diesel 2 cycle
> > engine. The statement in sect 3.7 that you quote " only
synthetic
> > oils which do not contain viscosity improver additives may be
used"
> > disqualifies all multigrade synthetics since viscosity improvers
are
> > used. I can buy Rotella T single grade at Walmarts and it is
easily
> availble.
> >
> > http://www.shell-lubricants.com/products...llaTSG.pdf
> > Tom Warner
> > Vernon Center,NY
> > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon for $35K or best offer)
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> > At 02:04 PM 4/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >Ron,
> > >
> > >Re your comments:
> > >
> > > > The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't use synthetics,
> > > > unless someone starts producing a single weight synthetic.
> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5
> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > >
> > >Just FYI, Detroit's current statement on synthetics is as
follows:
> > >3.7 SYNTHETIC OILS
> > >Synthetic oils should be used in Detroit Diesel engines
provided they
> > >are API licensed and meet the performance and chemical
requirements
> > >outlined in this publication. The oil should be a PGOS 93K214
approved
> > >product for use in EGR equipped engines. For two-stroke cycle
> > >engines, only synthetic oils which do not contain viscosity
improver
> > >additives may be used.
> > >
> > >I have been using Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine
Oil in
> > >both my Birds. Generally speaking, "W"/multigrade oils have to
pass
> > >both the low viscosity and high viscosity tests. The Amsoil
oil does
> > >and passes all tests that are required for straight 40 oil -
and all
> > >the requirements for a straight 40 oil listed in the Detroit
> > >publication. My 8V and my old 6V both had approximately 15lbs
at idle
> > >on synthetic.
> > >
> > >You are right that the single weight synthetics are impossible
to find
> > >any more. The market wasn't big enough for manufacturers to
continue
> > >to make it. The new generation multi-weight synthetics perform
just
> > >as well as the straight weights.
> > >
> > >Generally, synthetic versus non-synthetic debates are split
into the
> > >true believer and non-believer camps. With the current prices,
the
> > >price delta is narrowing. If one believes that cheaper dino oil
> > >performs as well as synthetics, then that's their comfort
factor. If
> > >one believes that synthetics don't break down like dino oil,
reduce
> > >friction, which reduces heat, and are better at protecting an
> > >expensive investment, then that is what they will use. All the
rest
> > >is just rethoric that will convince neither party. Mark me
down as
> > >true believer/user since 1979.
> > >
> > >Mike Bulriss
> > >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - full of Amsoil
> > >San Antonio, TX
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I agree mostly with what you say, but with a couple
exceptions.
> First
> > > > with engine oil: The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't
use
> > > > synthetics, unless someone starts producing a single weight
> synthetic.
> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5
> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > > >
> > > > I use Transynd in my Allison because I have a transmission
retarder.
> > > > Since I drive a lot in the mountains, the synthetic holds up
better
> > > > with the heat stress that is created using the retarder. I
> agree with
> > > > natural fluids if that were not the case.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner

> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Each of us has to make our own decisions relative to how
we will
> > > > > service our engines and transmissions, what kind and brand
of
> tires
> > > > > to use etc, etc etc, ad nauseum. But in my experience
> starting with
> > > > > High Fidelity in the 1950's many bought based on the hype
of
> > > > > manufacturers taunting the fantastic frequency repsonses
of their
> > > > > equipment. Of course the better the specifications the
higher the
> > > > > price. Problem is that many who bought the highest speced
> equipment
> > > > > and paid sky high prices for it, seldom used it and had no
ear to
> > > > > differentiate the difference. Yep I was one of those.
> > > > >
> > > > > And in my opinion this very closely relates to the use of
> synthetic
> > > > > motor oils and transmission fluids used in motorhomes that
are
> driven
> > > > > very few miles a year. If you notice on the Allison
> transmission site
> > > > > that was
> > > noted
> > >
>
<<http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.co
m/qs3a9,
> > > > > and then go to Approved C4 fluids you will note that
Dextron 3
> is an
> > > > > approved fluid and meets all of Allisons specifications.
In other
> > > > > words it meets ALL of the Allison specifications..period,
as
> do over
> > > > > 700 other brands! But note that Allison now recommends
> changing the
> > > > > C4 specification transmission lubricants at 12,000 mile
> intervals or
> > > > > every 6 months which ever comes first. Isnt it strange that
> the over
> > > > > the previous 50 years or so truckers all over the world
never,ever
> > > > > followed this regimine and racked up in excess of 500,000
miles on
> > > > > them without a problem? Wonder how many Allison
transmissions in
> > > > > motorhome service have never had their fluid changed since
> > > > > manufacture? And note if you do use Transynd the
transmission
> fluid
> > > > > change interval is 75,000 miles or 36 months. We are not
going to
> > > > > hit the 75,000 mile in 3 years, at least I dont plan to, so
> every 3
> > > > > years I would have to change the transmission fluid after
> travelling
> > > > > approximately 15,000-20,000 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now go to the list of approved Allison TES-295 approved
> transmission
> > > > > fluids, which is a severe duty extended drain interval
> transmission
> > > > > fluid. Note that Amsoil, that you have noted in
> > > > > http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW* is
NOT
> listed
> > > > > as an Allison TES-295 approved fluid.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I have noted many times previously todays engine oils
and
> > > > > transmission fluids meet or exceed any kind of service we
put our
> > > > > motorhomes thru. If you drive sensibly Dextron 3 for the
> transmission
> > > > > and good dino oil is fine for the diesel engine.
> > > > > tom warner
> > > > > Vernon center,NY
> > > > > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon)
> > > > > 1985 PT40
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 09:24 AM 4/6/2006, you wrote:
> > > > > >Bob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'm no expert, but I am fortunate enough to have a long-
time
> friend
> > > > > >nearby that is an Allison Transmission Specialist, and
> services our
> > > > > >bus. On his professional recommendation, we changed out
the
> filters
> > > > > >and added TranSynd, synthetic fluid.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
><<http://www.allisontransmission.com/>http://www.allisontransmissio
> > > n.com/>http://www.allisontransmission.com/
> > > > >
><http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW*>h
> > > ttp://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivetr....htm#*NEW*
> > > > >
><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tiny
> > > url.com/qs3a9
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ron, No. California
> > > > > >85PT36
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how long
does
> it last
> > > > > > > before needing rechanging?
> > > > > > > Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in
there now
> > > > (changing
> > > > > > > it out, of course).
> > > > > > > What think you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bob Lawrence
> > > > > > > 84 pt36
> > > > > > > Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on the
road.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----------
> > > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * Visit your group
> > > > > >
> > >
> "<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yah
oo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> > > > on the web.
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > *
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> > subject=Unsubscribe>WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > > > >
> > >
>
<<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>Yahoo!
>
> > > Terms of Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----------
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > * Visit your group
> >
> "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> on the web.
> > > *
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > *
> > >
> subject=Unsubscribe>WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> > >
> > > *
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> >
>







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[marvinskaggs@...>]

MY 6V92 has 15-40 amsoil in it and am suprised about the low consumption, have
not added any. I bought it with this oil being used and after reading I think
the oil recomended is special straight weight for DD engines. That being said
and after much research I ordered some amsoil,[which have never used before] i
checked and it is very low in sulfer etc. So will use the marine-diesel amsoil
this change and read more, am still not sure if is the right way to go, but
these things do not cool the best so maybe?Previous owner was also using syn.
tranny fluid so guess will go that route also and diff. syn. 90- 140.which i
think has dinno in it now. Wish I new the real answer to this?Marvin
SkaggsBuffalo, Ky. 427161984 PT40--- On Mon 04/10, whynotam <
aamiller@... > wrote:From: whynotam [mailto: aamiller@...]To:
WanderlodgeForum@...: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:47:06 -0000Subject:
[WanderlodgeForum] Synthetic vs. DinoFrom the for what it's worth
department.After speaking with one of the members of this forum about the value
of synthetic versus dino oil (thanks Bob) for my 1993 8V92 I made the switch
from straight Rotella 40W to Amsoil 15W40. The results have been nothing short
of amazing as oil consumption went from around 1 quart per 250 miles to about 1
quart per 850 miles when I am pushing it hard, to pretty much nothing when
driving 55 or 60 MPH. The 40W used to get that diesel black color within a
couple hundred miles of an oil change whereas the synthetic oil is still quite
clear even after 3200 miles. The engine used to smoke some when leaving a stop
light but now has to be fully floored to put out much smoke at all. The coolant
is also not running quite as warm thus the fan is seldom kicking in any more.
More than likely fuel consumption has also decreased but since I do not keep
track I can't vouch for that. It is quite obvious to me that something good has
taken place with my change from dino oil to
synthetic. Next step is to change the other lubricants as well. I am not trying
to start a war here but am just relaying my experience "for what it's
worth".Alvie Miller1993 WLWBArthur IL.--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
"mbulriss" wrote:>> Thank you Tom. I would have put you in the
non-believer camp. Enjoy> your Walmart Dino Oil.> > Mike Bulriss - I
won the bet! I won the bet!> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"> San Antonio,
TX> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote:>
>> > Mike you may be correct but I cannot find anywhere that ANY >
> syntheitcs are recommended for use in the Detroit diesel 2 cycle > >
engine. The statement in sect 3.7 that you quote " only synthetic > > oils
which do not contain viscosity improver additives may be used" > >
disqualifies all multigrade synthetics since viscosity improvers are > >
used. I can buy Rotella T single grade at Walmarts and it is
easily> availble.> > > >
http://www.shell-lubricants.com/products...SG.pdf> > Tom
Warner> > Vernon Center,NY> > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon for $35K or
best offer)> > 1985 PT 40> > > > At 02:04 PM 4/7/2006, you
wrote:> > >Ron,> > >> > >Re your comments:> >
>> > > > The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't use
synthetics,> > > > unless someone starts producing a single weight
synthetic.> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they
won't hold up under 5> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.> >
>> > >Just FYI, Detroit's current statement on synthetics is as
follows:> > >3.7 SYNTHETIC OILS> > >Synthetic oils should be
used in Detroit Diesel engines provided they> > >are API licensed and
meet the performance and chemical requirements> > >outlined in this
publication. The oil should
be a PGOS 93K214 approved> > >product for use in EGR equipped engines.
For two-stroke cycle> > >engines, only synthetic oils which do not
contain viscosity improver> > >additives may be used.> > >>
> >I have been using Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine Oil in>
> >both my Birds. Generally speaking, "W"/multigrade oils have to
pass> > >both the low viscosity and high viscosity tests. The Amsoil
oil does> > >and passes all tests that are required for straight 40 oil
- and all> > >the requirements for a straight 40 oil listed in the
Detroit> > >publication. My 8V and my old 6V both had approximately
15lbs at idle> > >on synthetic.> > >> > >You are
right that the single weight synthetics are impossible to find> > >any
more. The market wasn't big enough for manufacturers to continue> >
>to make it. The new generation multi-weight
synthetics perform just> > >as well as the straight weights.> >
>> > >Generally, synthetic versus non-synthetic debates are split
into the> > >true believer and non-believer camps. With the current
prices, the> > >price delta is narrowing. If one believes that cheaper
dino oil> > >performs as well as synthetics, then that's their comfort
factor. If> > >one believes that synthetics don't break down like dino
oil, reduce> > >friction, which reduces heat, and are better at
protecting an> > >expensive investment, then that is what they will
use. All the rest> > >is just rethoric that will convince neither
party. Mark me down as> > >true believer/user since 1979.> >
>> > >Mike Bulriss> > >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - full of
Amsoil> > >San Antonio, TX> > >> > >--- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"> >
> wrote:> > > >> > > > I agree mostly with what you
say, but with a couple exceptions.> First> > > > with engine
oil: The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't use> > > >
synthetics, unless someone starts producing a single weight> synthetic.>
> > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.> > > >> >
> > I use Transynd in my Allison because I have a transmission
retarder.> > > > Since I drive a lot in the mountains, the synthetic
holds up better> > > > with the heat stress that is created using
the retarder. I> agree with> > > > natural fluids if that were
not the case.> > > >> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas,
TX 92WB40> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Each of us has to
make our own decisions relative to how we will> > > > > service
our engines and transmissions, what kind and brand of> tires> > >
> > to use etc, etc etc, ad nauseum. But in my experience> starting
with> > > > > High Fidelity in the 1950's many bought based on
the hype of> > > > > manufacturers taunting the fantastic
frequency repsonses of their> > > > > equipment. Of course the
better the specifications the higher the> > > > > price. Problem
is that many who bought the highest speced> equipment> > > > >
and paid sky high prices for it, seldom used it and had no ear to> > >
> > differentiate the difference. Yep I was one of those.> > >
> >> > > > > And in my opinion this very closely relates to
the use of> synthetic> > > >
> motor oils and transmission fluids used in motorhomes that are>
driven> > > > > very few miles a year. If you notice on the
Allison> transmission site> > > > > that was > > >
noted > > >>
<<http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyu...url.c\
om/qs3a9,> > > > > and then go to Approved C4 fluids you will
note that Dextron 3> is an> > > > > approved fluid and meets
all of Allisons specifications. In other> > > > > words it meets
ALL of the Allison specifications..period, as> do over> > > >
> 700 other brands! But note that Allison now recommends> changing the>
> > > > C4 specification transmission lubricants at 12,000 mile>
intervals or> > > > > every 6 months which ever comes first. Isnt
it strange that> the over> > > > > the previous 50 years or so
truckers all over the
world never,ever> > > > > followed this regimine and racked up in
excess of 500,000 miles on> > > > > them without a problem?
Wonder how many Allison transmissions in> > > > > motorhome
service have never had their fluid changed since> > > > >
manufacture? And note if you do use Transynd the transmission> fluid> >
> > > change interval is 75,000 miles or 36 months. We are not going
to> > > > > hit the 75,000 mile in 3 years, at least I dont plan
to, so> every 3> > > > > years I would have to change the
transmission fluid after> travelling> > > > > approximately
15,000-20,000 miles.> > > > >> > > > > Now go to
the list of approved Allison TES-295 approved> transmission> > >
> > fluids, which is a severe duty extended drain interval>
transmission> > > > > fluid. Note that Amsoil, that
you have noted in> > > > >
http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW* is NOT> listed> >
> > > as an Allison TES-295 approved fluid.> > > > >>
> > > > As I have noted many times previously todays engine oils
and> > > > > transmission fluids meet or exceed any kind of
service we put our> > > > > motorhomes thru. If you drive
sensibly Dextron 3 for the> transmission> > > > > and good
dino oil is fine for the diesel engine.> > > > > tom warner>
> > > > Vernon center,NY> > > > > 1982 FC35 (for sale
soon)> > > > > 1985 PT40> > > > >> > >
> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >
> At 09:24 AM 4/6/2006, you wrote:> > > > > >Bob,> >
> > > >> > > > > >I'm no expert, but I am
fortunate enough
to have a long-time> friend> > > > > >nearby that is an
Allison Transmission Specialist, and> services our> > > > >
>bus. On his professional recommendation, we changed out the> filters>
> > > > >and added TranSynd, synthetic fluid.> > > >
> >> > > > >> > > >> > >
><<http://www.allisontransmission.com/>h...ransmissio
> > > n.com/>http://www.allisontransmission.com/> > > >
> ><http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet...*NEW*>h
> > > ttp://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivetr...#*NEW*>
> > > >
><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9><http://t...ttp://tiny
> > > url.com/qs3a9> > > > > >> > > >
> >Ron, No. California> > > > > >85PT36> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > > >--- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"> > > > > >
wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Is it
worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how long does> it last> > >
> > > > before needing rechanging?> > > > > > >
Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in there now> > > >
(changing> > > > > > > it out, of course).> > >
> > > > What think you?> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > Bob Lawrence> > > > > > > 84
pt36> > > > > > > Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till
fulltiming on the road.> > > > > > >> > > >
> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
> > > >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>
> > > > >> > > > > >----------> > >
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS> > > > > >> > >
> > > * Visit your group> > > > > > > >
>>
"<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wanderlodg...hoo.c\
om/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"> > > > on the
web.> > > > > > *> > > > > > * To
unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:> > > > > >
*> > > > > >> > > >> >> >


_______________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bob & Carol Howald`]

I put eighty thousand miles on a 6v-92 using amsoil 15/40 and have 50
thousand on my 8v-92 using amsoil. I also use the amsoil syn
transmission fluid along with the rear dif, fluid. My Dodge diesel
pickup truck has 100 thousand with amsoil in it from the first day. No
complaint's. I have the oil analysis once a year on all vehicles and no
problem's. I would never go back to Dino.. Still snow on the ground
here in Jackson, Wy..Bob&Carol. 93pt-40 Bunker Hill, Il...

[Bob Lawrence]

Hi Bob,
Your 80k miles on the 6v-92..is that without an oil change?
Just put in dino in the engine with synthetic in tranny (Amsoil).
I wonder if I decide to switch to Amsoil in engine how many miles I
have to have on it before draining the dino oil. At present, I only
have 5k miles on the rebuilt engine.
Bob Lawrence
84 PT36 (Scratching my head)
Tacoma, Wa.
>
> I put eighty thousand miles on a 6v-92 using amsoil 15/40 and have
50
> thousand on my 8v-92 using amsoil. I also use the amsoil syn
> transmission fluid along with the rear dif, fluid. My Dodge diesel
> pickup truck has 100 thousand with amsoil in it from the first day.
No
> complaint's. I have the oil analysis once a year on all vehicles and
no
> problem's. I would never go back to Dino.. Still snow on the ground
> here in Jackson, Wy..Bob&Carol. 93pt-40 Bunker Hill, Il...
>

[Jeff Miller]

If your engine rebuilder gave you special break-in oil change
requirements (shorter interval), use the cheap oil to the first
change. if not, you can change at any time, breaking in an engine
with syn oil in it is fine and recommended by Mobil.

Dino is fine, synthetic is better. Holland Motor Express used to run
Mobil Delvac 1 in their 6V92 fleet, changed it at 250,000 miles
during a major maintenance, filters in-between. I don't know if it
has changed, but last I knew the Delvac 1 has no viscosity modifiers.

Synthetic trans fluid I highly recommend as it has a higher thermal
transmissivity and will run cooler, one reason it is popular with the
towable-RV crowd, it made a noticeable improvement in trans temps
during retarder use in my '88. ZF allows triple the maintenance
interval with synthetic trans fluid over conventional/dino fluid.

Lots of money, and as many will argue the coach will run fine without
it.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
> Your 80k miles on the 6v-92..is that without an oil change?
> Just put in dino in the engine with synthetic in tranny (Amsoil).
> I wonder if I decide to switch to Amsoil in engine how many miles I
> have to have on it before draining the dino oil. At present, I only
> have 5k miles on the rebuilt engine.
> Bob Lawrence
> 84 PT36 (Scratching my head)
> Tacoma, Wa.
> >
> > I put eighty thousand miles on a 6v-92 using amsoil 15/40 and
have
> 50
> > thousand on my 8v-92 using amsoil. I also use the amsoil syn
> > transmission fluid along with the rear dif, fluid. My Dodge
diesel
> > pickup truck has 100 thousand with amsoil in it from the first
day.
> No
> > complaint's. I have the oil analysis once a year on all vehicles
and
> no
> > problem's. I would never go back to Dino.. Still snow on the
ground
> > here in Jackson, Wy..Bob&Carol. 93pt-40 Bunker Hill, Il...
> >
>

[mbulriss]

Bob,

I have been using Amsoil in every internal combustion engine I own
since 1979. At 5,000 miles, with modern ring technolgy everything is
broken in by now and you are OK to switch, but since you just had the
oil changed, switch at 8-10,000 and get your money's worth out of the
last oil change. When you switch, make sure you get a good quality
synthetic oil filter also: Amsoil, Mobil-1 or the new Donaldson line.
The synthetics don't break down, but they will load up with dirt and
soot just like dino oil. You need excellent quality filters to
preserve your synthetic oil investment. The paper based filters are
are a waste of money and synthetic.

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
> Your 80k miles on the 6v-92..is that without an oil change?
> Just put in dino in the engine with synthetic in tranny (Amsoil).
> I wonder if I decide to switch to Amsoil in engine how many miles I
> have to have on it before draining the dino oil. At present, I only
> have 5k miles on the rebuilt engine.
> Bob Lawrence
> 84 PT36 (Scratching my head)
> Tacoma, Wa.
> >
> > I put eighty thousand miles on a 6v-92 using amsoil 15/40 and have
> 50
> > thousand on my 8v-92 using amsoil. I also use the amsoil syn
> > transmission fluid along with the rear dif, fluid. My Dodge diesel
> > pickup truck has 100 thousand with amsoil in it from the first day.
> No
> > complaint's. I have the oil analysis once a year on all vehicles and
> no
> > problem's. I would never go back to Dino.. Still snow on the ground
> > here in Jackson, Wy..Bob&Carol. 93pt-40 Bunker Hill, Il...
> >
>

[Jay Darst]

Mike,

How are the synthetic filters different from conventional filters?

Do you have part #'s for the proper filter to be used while using
synthetic engine oil?

Jay Darst
85PT40
Springfield, IL where might be making the switch from dino to
synthetic in the DD, startint to make some sense....

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I have been using Amsoil in every internal combustion engine I own
> since 1979. At 5,000 miles, with modern ring technolgy everything
is
> broken in by now and you are OK to switch, but since you just had
the
> oil changed, switch at 8-10,000 and get your money's worth out of
the
> last oil change. When you switch, make sure you get a good quality
> synthetic oil filter also: Amsoil, Mobil-1 or the new Donaldson
line.
> The synthetics don't break down, but they will load up with dirt
and
> soot just like dino oil. You need excellent quality filters to
> preserve your synthetic oil investment. The paper based filters
are
> are a waste of money and synthetic.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> > Your 80k miles on the 6v-92..is that without an oil change?
> > Just put in dino in the engine with synthetic in tranny (Amsoil).
> > I wonder if I decide to switch to Amsoil in engine how many
miles I
> > have to have on it before draining the dino oil. At present, I
only
> > have 5k miles on the rebuilt engine.
> > Bob Lawrence
> > 84 PT36 (Scratching my head)
> > Tacoma, Wa.
> > >
> > > I put eighty thousand miles on a 6v-92 using amsoil 15/40 and
have
> > 50
> > > thousand on my 8v-92 using amsoil. I also use the amsoil syn
> > > transmission fluid along with the rear dif, fluid. My Dodge
diesel
> > > pickup truck has 100 thousand with amsoil in it from the first
day.
> > No
> > > complaint's. I have the oil analysis once a year on all
vehicles and
> > no
> > > problem's. I would never go back to Dino.. Still snow on the
ground
> > > here in Jackson, Wy..Bob&Carol. 93pt-40 Bunker Hill, Il...
> > >
> >
>

[mbulriss]

Jay,

Regular oil filters tend to cellulose based, commonly referred to as
paper. If you ever cut a regular Fram or AC filter open it is
typically just pleated paper to increase the total surface area of the
paper filter medium. Cellulose is basically broken down soaked wood
chips made into a paste and then compressed into sheets and dried to
become paper. As a result, cellulose fibers are inconsistent in size,
shape and thickness. You have thick spots and shallow spots in the
paper. Thick spots result in higher restriction and lower dirt
holding capacity. Shallow spots allow more contaminants to pass
through and can even rupture into mini-holes allowing unfiltered oil
and contaminants through. It is the very small contaminants that
cause most of the wear in engines over time. As time goes on, the hot
oil will also degrade the resins that bind the cellulose media
together, which allows even more unfiltered contaminants to pass
through. If you get lucky and get a particular thick piece of
cellulose, it can get saturated or totally plugged up with
contaminants and then start bypassing unfiltered oil through the
filter bypass valves. That's what they are there for, to prevent
engine oil starvation in the event of filter restrictions.

The synthetic grade filters typically use a manmade synthetic media
which has very controlled fiber density of uniform sizes, shapes and
smaller diameters. They are then typically layered in various
densities with wire screen backing for shape and strength. they are
compressed at a consistent rate to eliminate thick or weak spots.
They then have consistent flow rates and more fully filter
multi-micron size contaminants. Precisely measured tests prove them
to be far more efficient at cleaning pre-measured contaminants out of
oil passing through them. With synthetic oil, use good synthetic
filters and change them half way through your life cycle of usage.

For even more efficient cleaning, several manufacturers sell bypass
filter systems that use even denser synthetic media that can clean
down into the one micron range. These bypass filter systems typically
use a restricted oil orifice, typically off the oil pressure gauge
sending unit, to pass small amounts of oil at a time through the
bypass filtration system. Due to the dense filtering restriction, it
typically takes 7-15 miles at highway speeds to pass all of the oil
through the bypass filtering system, which cleans the oil back to
nearly new state in terms of contaminants. An early version of these
deep cleaning bypass filters were commonly found on the mid-80s PT
Birds. Many of them have been removed since they were so dirty to
change. I know mine was missing on Stagecoach - only the
documentation in the Blue Box remained. The new bypass filter systems
utilize spin on filters and are much easier to service. Supposedly,
you never need to change the synthetic oil again with synthetic
filters and a synthetic quality bypass filter system. You just change
the filters regularly and top off the synthetic oil supply. I have a
bypass system I haven't installed yet. Amsoil has an interesting tear
down test on a class 8 diesel with 400,000+ miles that had a bypass
system and only changed filters during that time.

Ironically, as regards air filters, the most effective air filter
tests that I have seen are not cellulose/paper or oil treated
synthetic filters, but the old oil bath filters found on the Perkins
gen sets. So if you have one of those, keep it.

Per your question, the synthetic oil filter cross reference numbers I
have for the 6V and 8V are as follows:

Amsoil SDF72
Donaldson Endurance ELF7670
Hastings LF262
Fleetguard LF670
LuberFiner P670/LFP911

I have the Perkins oil filter numbers in the old bus log, which I
don't have here right now. I believe the Amsoil oil filter # is
SDF96. Actually, I think I posted a cross reference list in the forum
files if you need them.

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> How are the synthetic filters different from conventional filters?
>
> Do you have part #'s for the proper filter to be used while using
> synthetic engine oil?
>
> Jay Darst
> 85PT40
> Springfield, IL where might be making the switch from dino to
> synthetic in the DD, startint to make some sense....
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I have been using Amsoil in every internal combustion engine I own
> > since 1979. At 5,000 miles, with modern ring technolgy everything
> is
> > broken in by now and you are OK to switch, but since you just had
> the
> > oil changed, switch at 8-10,000 and get your money's worth out of
> the
> > last oil change. When you switch, make sure you get a good quality
> > synthetic oil filter also: Amsoil, Mobil-1 or the new Donaldson
> line.
> > The synthetics don't break down, but they will load up with dirt
> and
> > soot just like dino oil. You need excellent quality filters to
> > preserve your synthetic oil investment. The paper based filters
> are
> > are a waste of money and synthetic.
> >
> > Mike Bulriss
> > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > San Antonio, TX
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bob,
> > > Your 80k miles on the 6v-92..is that without an oil change?
> > > Just put in dino in the engine with synthetic in tranny (Amsoil).
> > > I wonder if I decide to switch to Amsoil in engine how many
> miles I
> > > have to have on it before draining the dino oil. At present, I
> only
> > > have 5k miles on the rebuilt engine.
> > > Bob Lawrence
> > > 84 PT36 (Scratching my head)
> > > Tacoma, Wa.
> > > >
> > > > I put eighty thousand miles on a 6v-92 using amsoil 15/40 and
> have
> > > 50
> > > > thousand on my 8v-92 using amsoil. I also use the amsoil syn
> > > > transmission fluid along with the rear dif, fluid. My Dodge
> diesel
> > > > pickup truck has 100 thousand with amsoil in it from the first
> day.
> > > No
> > > > complaint's. I have the oil analysis once a year on all
> vehicles and
> > > no
> > > > problem's. I would never go back to Dino.. Still snow on the
> ground
> > > > here in Jackson, Wy..Bob&Carol. 93pt-40 Bunker Hill, Il...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[whynotam]

Mike,

So far just 3200 miles, thus the disclaimer "for what it's worth".

Alvie Miller
1993 WLWB
Arthur IL.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your insight. How many miles traveled are you basing
your report? In other words, how many miles accumulated since the
oil change?
> Mike Hohnstein
> Germantown, WI
> 83FC35
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: whynotam
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:47 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Synthetic vs. Dino
>
>
> From the for what it's worth department.
>
> After speaking with one of the members of this forum about the
value
> of synthetic versus dino oil (thanks Bob) for my 1993 8V92 I
made
> the switch from straight Rotella 40W to Amsoil 15W40. The
results
> have been nothing short of amazing as oil consumption went from
> around 1 quart per 250 miles to about 1 quart per 850 miles when
I
> am pushing it hard, to pretty much nothing when driving 55 or 60
> MPH. The 40W used to get that diesel black color within a couple
> hundred miles of an oil change whereas the synthetic oil is
still
> quite clear even after 3200 miles. The engine used to smoke some
> when leaving a stop light but now has to be fully floored to put
out
> much smoke at all. The coolant is also not running quite as warm
> thus the fan is seldom kicking in any more. More than likely
fuel
> consumption has also decreased but since I do not keep track I
can't
> vouch for that. It is quite obvious to me that something good
has
> taken place with my change from dino oil to synthetic. Next step
is
> to change the other lubricants as well. I am not trying to start
a
> war here but am just relaying my experience "for what it's
worth".
>
> Alvie Miller
> 1993 WLWB
> Arthur IL.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Tom. I would have put you in the non-believer
camp.
> Enjoy
> > your Walmart Dino Oil.
> >
> > Mike Bulriss - I won the bet! I won the bet!
> > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > San Antonio, TX
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner

> wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike you may be correct but I cannot find anywhere that ANY
> > > syntheitcs are recommended for use in the Detroit diesel 2
cycle
> > > engine. The statement in sect 3.7 that you quote " only
> synthetic
> > > oils which do not contain viscosity improver additives may
be
> used"
> > > disqualifies all multigrade synthetics since viscosity
improvers
> are
> > > used. I can buy Rotella T single grade at Walmarts and it is
> easily
> > availble.
> > >
> > > http://www.shell-lubricants.com/products...llaTSG.pdf
> > > Tom Warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon for $35K or best offer)
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > > At 02:04 PM 4/7/2006, you wrote:
> > > >Ron,
> > > >
> > > >Re your comments:
> > > >
> > > > > The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't use synthetics,
> > > > > unless someone starts producing a single weight
synthetic.
> > > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't
hold up
> under 5
> > > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > > >
> > > >Just FYI, Detroit's current statement on synthetics is as
> follows:
> > > >3.7 SYNTHETIC OILS
> > > >Synthetic oils should be used in Detroit Diesel engines
> provided they
> > > >are API licensed and meet the performance and chemical
> requirements
> > > >outlined in this publication. The oil should be a PGOS
93K214
> approved
> > > >product for use in EGR equipped engines. For two-stroke
cycle
> > > >engines, only synthetic oils which do not contain viscosity
> improver
> > > >additives may be used.
> > > >
> > > >I have been using Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and
Marine
> Oil in
> > > >both my Birds. Generally speaking, "W"/multigrade oils
have to
> pass
> > > >both the low viscosity and high viscosity tests. The
Amsoil
> oil does
> > > >and passes all tests that are required for straight 40 oil -

> and all
> > > >the requirements for a straight 40 oil listed in the Detroit
> > > >publication. My 8V and my old 6V both had approximately
15lbs
> at idle
> > > >on synthetic.
> > > >
> > > >You are right that the single weight synthetics are
impossible
> to find
> > > >any more. The market wasn't big enough for manufacturers
to
> continue
> > > >to make it. The new generation multi-weight synthetics
perform
> just
> > > >as well as the straight weights.
> > > >
> > > >Generally, synthetic versus non-synthetic debates are split
> into the
> > > >true believer and non-believer camps. With the current
prices,
> the
> > > >price delta is narrowing. If one believes that cheaper dino
oil
> > > >performs as well as synthetics, then that's their comfort
> factor. If
> > > >one believes that synthetics don't break down like dino
oil,
> reduce
> > > >friction, which reduces heat, and are better at protecting
an
> > > >expensive investment, then that is what they will use. All
the
> rest
> > > >is just rethoric that will convince neither party. Mark me
> down as
> > > >true believer/user since 1979.
> > > >
> > > >Mike Bulriss
> > > >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - full of Amsoil
> > > >San Antonio, TX
> > > >
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree mostly with what you say, but with a couple
> exceptions.
> > First
> > > > > with engine oil: The two stroke Detroits really
shouldn't
> use
> > > > > synthetics, unless someone starts producing a single
weight
> > synthetic.
> > > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't
hold up
> under 5
> > > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > > > >
> > > > > I use Transynd in my Allison because I have a
transmission
> retarder.
> > > > > Since I drive a lot in the mountains, the synthetic
holds up
> better
> > > > > with the heat stress that is created using the
retarder. I
> > agree with
> > > > > natural fluids if that were not the case.
> > > > >
> > > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Each of us has to make our own decisions relative to
how
> we will
> > > > > > service our engines and transmissions, what kind and
brand
> of
> > tires
> > > > > > to use etc, etc etc, ad nauseum. But in my experience
> > starting with
> > > > > > High Fidelity in the 1950's many bought based on the
hype
> of
> > > > > > manufacturers taunting the fantastic frequency
repsonses
> of their
> > > > > > equipment. Of course the better the specifications the
> higher the
> > > > > > price. Problem is that many who bought the highest
speced
> > equipment
> > > > > > and paid sky high prices for it, seldom used it and
had no
> ear to
> > > > > > differentiate the difference. Yep I was one of those.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And in my opinion this very closely relates to the use
of
> > synthetic
> > > > > > motor oils and transmission fluids used in motorhomes
that
> are
> > driven
> > > > > > very few miles a year. If you notice on the Allison
> > transmission site
> > > > > > that was
> > > > noted
> > > >
> >
>
<<http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.co
> m/qs3a9,
> > > > > > and then go to Approved C4 fluids you will note that
> Dextron 3
> > is an
> > > > > > approved fluid and meets all of Allisons
specifications.
> In other
> > > > > > words it meets ALL of the Allison
specifications..period,
> as
> > do over
> > > > > > 700 other brands! But note that Allison now recommends
> > changing the
> > > > > > C4 specification transmission lubricants at 12,000 mile
> > intervals or
> > > > > > every 6 months which ever comes first. Isnt it strange
that
> > the over
> > > > > > the previous 50 years or so truckers all over the
world
> never,ever
> > > > > > followed this regimine and racked up in excess of
500,000
> miles on
> > > > > > them without a problem? Wonder how many Allison
> transmissions in
> > > > > > motorhome service have never had their fluid changed
since
> > > > > > manufacture? And note if you do use Transynd the
> transmission
> > fluid
> > > > > > change interval is 75,000 miles or 36 months. We are
not
> going to
> > > > > > hit the 75,000 mile in 3 years, at least I dont plan
to, so
> > every 3
> > > > > > years I would have to change the transmission fluid
after
> > travelling
> > > > > > approximately 15,000-20,000 miles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now go to the list of approved Allison TES-295 approved
> > transmission
> > > > > > fluids, which is a severe duty extended drain interval
> > transmission
> > > > > > fluid. Note that Amsoil, that you have noted in
> > > > > > http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW*
is
> NOT
> > listed
> > > > > > as an Allison TES-295 approved fluid.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As I have noted many times previously todays engine
oils
> and
> > > > > > transmission fluids meet or exceed any kind of service
we
> put our
> > > > > > motorhomes thru. If you drive sensibly Dextron 3 for
the
> > transmission
> > > > > > and good dino oil is fine for the diesel engine.
> > > > > > tom warner
> > > > > > Vernon center,NY
> > > > > > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon)
> > > > > > 1985 PT40
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 09:24 AM 4/6/2006, you wrote:
> > > > > > >Bob,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I'm no expert, but I am fortunate enough to have a
long-
> time
> > friend
> > > > > > >nearby that is an Allison Transmission Specialist,
and
> > services our
> > > > > > >bus. On his professional recommendation, we changed
out
> the
> > filters
> > > > > > >and added TranSynd, synthetic fluid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
><<http://www.allisontransmission.com/>http://www.allisontransmissio
> > > > n.com/>http://www.allisontransmission.com/
> > > > > >
> ><http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW*>h
> > > > ttp://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivetr....htm#*NEW*
> > > > > >
> ><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tiny
> > > > url.com/qs3a9
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Ron, No. California
> > > > > > >85PT36
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob
Lawrence"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how
long
> does
> > it last
> > > > > > > > before needing rechanging?
> > > > > > > > Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in
> there now
> > > > > (changing
> > > > > > > > it out, of course).
> > > > > > > > What think you?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bob Lawrence
> > > > > > > > 84 pt36
> > > > > > > > Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on
the
> road.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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