Filter Minders for Dummies

[Arcticdude]

How closely does the analog boost gauge match the leaf?

[davidbrady]

Hey John,

The analog gauge agrees with the leaf, but as you know the analog gauge runs out of numbers at 25 and a lot of the time it's pegged, so you can't really rely on the analog gauge; for instance, some folks report seeing 30 psi on the analog. I have no idea how you would do this, they're just guessing or more correctly BSing! Tomorrow I'll get a video of the analog gauge and maybe another video of the leaf, hopefully at a lower altitude.

[davidbrady]

On the youTube play bar at the lower left you can count off seconds. On the Silverleaf screen just above the clock are two small numbers. The lower number is the cruise control set speed, the upper number is the actual speed. On the first video the run starts at the 3s mark, on the second video the run begins at the 7s mark.

It's far from scientific due to all the conditions involved: one-way run, wind conditions, altitude, temp, road undulations, load (full fuel and water, 5 passengers with all our belongings), toad (Honda Pilot stuffed to the gills).

I count off the following times:

Video 1: 0-50 mph 24 seconds
Video 2: 0-50 mph 26 seconds

[pgchin]

(04-03-2013 09:47)davidmbrady Wrote:  On the youTube play bar at the lower left you can count off seconds. On the Silverleaf screen just above the clock are two small numbers. The lower number is the cruise control set speed, the upper number is the actual speed. On the first video the run starts at the 3s mark, on the second video the run begins at the 7s mark.

It's far from scientific due to all the conditions involved: one-way run, wind conditions, altitude, temp, road undulations, load (full fuel and water, 5 passengers with all our belongings), toad (Honda Pilot stuffed to the gills).

I count off the following times:

Video 1: 0-50 mph 24 seconds
Video 2: 0-50 mph 26 seconds

WOW,
Thanks Dave for taking time away from your family on your vacation to do this. Serious question / hypothesis: Does the stainless low restriction exhaust you installed help you with boost since it's obvious you do NOT have an air inlet issue????? Inquiring minds want to know your thoughts please!

[davidbrady]

Anytime Pete. You know I can't stay away from this stuff for too long.

I didn't notice any appreciable change in boost levels after doing the exhaust. I didn't really notice any turbo spool up time change or any fuel mileage increase either. It may be there, if so it just wasn't significant enough for me to see a difference. I also replaced my charge air cooler (CAC) with a Duralite CAC.

What I did notice was a significant drop in exhaust gas temperatures and I think this was mostly due to the repair of the CAC but the new exhaust system may have added to it.

My original CAC suffered a fatal blow when the bus suspension air was dumped and the CAC came down on an obstacle. I had a nice crack in my OEM CAC. I worked with Duralite to have a new one made to fit the LXi. If anyone wishes to have a Duralite CAC for their LXi the part number is: BLUDAC-350B. This is a bolt on replacement for you Radiator Specialties unit.

When a CAC leaks the engine is starved of air. This results in a drop in boost pressure. To get the pressure back up to where the ECM wants to see it, the ECM dumps fuel in the cylinders. The result is black smoke out the pipe and excessive exhaust gas temperatures (EGT's). This is what got me on this kick of understanding what an electronically controlled diesel will do.

The same is true for the exhaust and intake systems. Making either of these freer flowing will result in less pumping loss and more air to the engine. This means to achieve a given boost the ECM can taper off the fuel delivery a smidge. With the change I made to the exhaust system I wasn't able to identify any increase in mileage (engine efficiency) and I think the same would be true of the small changes in intake flow that some are proposing. Unless the stock system is overly restrictive in intake or exhaust I think the differences will be unnoticeable in terms of efficiency.

I never saw a boost increase with either the CAC or the exhaust system upgrade. This is due to the smarts of the ECM. A given ECM program (flash) with a given set of injectors wants to see a predetermined boost level at a given engine load and rpm. A 500 HP Series 60 wants to be 500 HP.

You can throw all the intake and exhaust tricks you want at an electronically controlled engine and you won't see an increase in boost or power. The only way to get that is to alter the fuel map and the expected boost and that requires an ECM reflash and new injectors. You may see an increase in efficiency as the ECM tapers off fuel delivery but with the LXi it's going to be slight to unnoticeable.

The beauty of my Silverleaf VMSpc videos is that they are real factual numbers coming from real engine sensors. This isn't seat-of-the pants, or third party heresay, or jawflapping. This is the real deal. These numbers don't lie.

[Arcticdude]

Interesting your analog guage doesn't go to 30# boost. Mine does. Curiouser and curiouser!

[davidbrady]

(04-03-2013 16:34)Arcticdude Wrote:  Interesting your analog guage doesn't go to 30# boost. Mine does. Curiouser and curiouser!

Oops, Thanks John. I'll have to retract that statement then. So, some of the S60 equipped birds do have 30 psi boost gauges. I'm taking my bus back to the garage tomorrow. I'll take some videos to see how well the analog gauge tracks VMSpc.

[Arcticdude]

I've got a 45 degree slash cut on the external intake, mostly facing the inside of the louvered housing, with 6 90's and a 45 before I hit the turbo. I could do away with all of them and run the intake straight out the back. I'd have to move the AC compressor a little, but I think that wouldn't be too tough. Maybe angle it up a little with a 60 and then a 90 at the top to get a ram air affect from the upper slipstream. Might need slicks for that, though. In any case, it would be interesting to see what's happening with the pressures along the intake pathway. Maybe a raspberry pi with some sensors!



mmmmm, pie! I like pie!

[davidbrady]

Folks,

I'm trying to save LXi owners some money. I think I've been pretty persuasive by now: the intake systems in our coaches only have 3 90 deg bends including the ECO-SM air filter. Air flow restriction is all about the elbows. As I've shown each 90 deg elbow has an equivalent straight tube length of over 10 feet. Put another way, the 90 deg elbows dominate the flow characteristics. It also turns out that our stock ECO-SM air filters are actually high flowing (over 1200 cfm) and very low restriction (less than 4 in. H2O). I've also shown that the ECM will compensate for freer intake and exhaust restriction by altering the fuel delivery out the injectors. Early on I cast doubt on the usefulness of the Filter Minders as a differential pressure diagnostic tool. I also pointed out the NAPA 6580 panel filters are flow limited ( < 570 CFM) and are not suitable to the S60 application. Along with saving you money, I'm trying to prevent you from damaging your engines. Good! Looks like the owner of another forum is listening. They've affectionately been using the term "Redneck Engineering". Old habits die hard.

Folks if you want to talk and learn about the S60, it's ECM, flow requirements, turbo, come join WaGu! Why settle for second best? WaGu Rules!

[al perna]

David . I think both sites are valuable to us all . Where else could we have spoke about, and preformed all the test that have been done over the past few weeks .

there will always be guys like myself that , "see it to believe it " is how i often do things .

I enjoyed reading about this topic on both WOW and WaGu , Did I spell it correct Gary LOL

so I thank you David, and Randy at WOG for all your efferts .

Long Live The WEB