M&G brake system

[Tom Seitz]

Gardner, I have the M&G on my 01 suburban. I feel it works great
and fairly easy to install.
Tom 90 SP36 Alpharetta GA


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gmktm450"
wrote:
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw"
> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to the
> coach
> > air brake system and provides proportional braking on the toad.
> You
> > unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G adapter
on
> and
> > then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks like a
> pretty
> > good system and costs less than most other devices. (not
portable
> > between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the air
> hose to
> > the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> > disconnect installed).
> >
> > Gardner
> > 78FC33
> >Gardner, I have one of the M & G systems on my 2002 GMC Denali
that
> I used to pull behind my 99 LXi-43. The device worked very well, I
> was able to install it into the truck myself, but did have to get
my
> chassis shop to hook up the airline. Someone noticed that I had
used
> a female end on the MH, and a male end on the truck, and suggested
> that I should have used a female end on the truck too, to prevent
> moisture, dust, etc from getting into the line. I made that
change,
> and it seemed to work pretty well. The brakes on a 99 were still
> drum, so stopping distances were still not real good, but I could
> certainly tell the M & G system was working.
> George McMahan, Lubbock, Texas 06 450LXi
>

[Jeff Miller]

The quick-connect is on the accessory circuit. If it failed open, the
air would bleed down to no less than the pressure-protection valve's
pre-set limit, protecting the air supply to the front and rear air
brake circuits (the red and green pointers are for the two air-brake
system tanks, not the accessory system). Ditto for an air-bag
failure, protected.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
wrote:
>
> Hi folks:
> I don't have a dog in this hunt and do not have a plumbing diagram
of my bus air system. Now you got me wondering. I pull a trailer
with electric brakes. My bus was factory fitted with a quick
disconnect in roadside bay #3 , to be used for blowing up the
tires. The pilot air gauge has two pointers, red and green,
indicating redundant systems. Dumb question? If the quick
disconnect in bay #3 failed would I lose all air to the brakes or is
there a check valve somewhere that would prevent the event? If not,
I may consider changing the quick disconnect to an manual shutoff
valve.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: smquandt
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 2:28 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: M&G brake system
>
>
> I used a SMI silent partner on a PT-40/Honda CRV combination, and
> like it. Like Curt I didn't want any surprises in my air brake
> system. One thing that I had to do, probably because the coach is
> steel was move the both send and receive antennas to the rear of
the
> coach to get enough reception to activate the braking system.
There
> isn't enough wire with the SMI and fishing it back there would be
a
> PIA job, but I found enough extra unused wires to get it there.
>
> The system has enough adjustment through the G Force dial that
the
> toad doesn't brake every time you brake the coach. I've got mine
> set so it only comes in moderate to panic stops, like when the
old-
> timer pulled out of the bar in northern Wisconsin yesterday on
HWY
> #8! If I can flatten the learning curve let me know
>
> Steve Quandt
> 1993- PT40
> Iron Mountain, MI
> Currently in Rochester, MN
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Curt Sprenger
> wrote:
> >
> > I looked at the M&G product and SMI products. M&G seemed fine
> except I
> > did not want the possibility of an air leak by tapping and
quick
> > disconnect. I went with the SMI Silent Partner, it should
arrive
> this
> > week. I'll be looking for installation guidance shortly.
> >
> > Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gardner Yeaw wrote:
> >
> > > Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to
the
> coach
> > > air brake system and provides proportional braking on the
toad.
> You
> > > unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G
adapter
> on and
> > > then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks
like a
> pretty
> > > good system and costs less than most other devices. (not
portable
> > > between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the
air
> hose to
> > > the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> > > disconnect installed).
> > >
> > > Gardner
> > > 78FC33
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Jeff Miller]

The M&G systems I've seen installed are tapped into the pressure output
of the drive-axle R-12 Brake relay valve, which is unsafe and illegal
per FMVSS-121.

I did meet a man who claimed that the damage to the front of his
Wanderlodge was due to a severed air-line from his coach to the toad
reducing his braking effectiveness without notice, causing him to rear-
end another coach.

The drive axle on these coaches is responsible for roughly 70% of your
braking.

To install it correctly you would need to install a Trailer Protection
Valve / circuit like big trucks have.

Get a non-invasive system.

Although I had been a fan of proportional systems in the past, in
reality the only thing that is really useful IMO is a towed-vehicle
braking system that will apply the towed-vehicle brakes in a panic-stop
or abrupt stop. Causing them to brake the combination during long
grades and other stops risks wheel lockup or damage to the brakes, and
isn't necessary. I've gotten to prefer a good system which will apply
towed-vehicle brakes only when needed, and a system that is not
invasive to the dinghy nor the coach is IMO a huge advantage.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw"
wrote:
>
> Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to the coach
> air brake system and provides proportional braking on the toad. You
> unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G adapter on and
> then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks like a
pretty
> good system and costs less than most other devices. (not portable
> between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the air hose
to
> the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> disconnect installed).
>
> Gardner
> 78FC33
>

[Stephen Quandt]

Jeff,

Properly adjusted, SMI does exaclty as you describe, hard to panic stops only.

Steve Quandt
1993-PT40
Iron Mountain, MI
Currently Rochester, MN


----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:03:14 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: M&G brake system

The M&G systems I've seen installed are tapped into the pressure output
of the drive-axle R-12 Brake relay valve, which is unsafe and illegal
per FMVSS-121.

I did meet a man who claimed that the damage to the front of his
Wanderlodge was due to a severed air-line from his coach to the toad
reducing his braking effectiveness without notice, causing him to rear-
end another coach.

The drive axle on these coaches is responsible for roughly 70% of your
braking.

To install it correctly you would need to install a Trailer Protection
Valve / circuit like big trucks have.

Get a non-invasive system.

Although I had been a fan of proportional systems in the past, in
reality the only thing that is really useful IMO is a towed-vehicle
braking system that will apply the towed-vehicle brakes in a panic-stop
or abrupt stop. Causing them to brake the combination during long
grades and other stops risks wheel lockup or damage to the brakes, and
isn't necessary. I've gotten to prefer a good system which will apply
towed-vehicle brakes only when needed, and a system that is not
invasive to the dinghy nor the coach is IMO a huge advantage.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI

--- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, "Gardner Yeaw"
wrote:
>
> Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to the coach
> air brake system and provides proportional braking on the toad. You
> unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G adapter on and
> then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks like a
pretty
> good system and costs less than most other devices. (not portable
> between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the air hose
to
> the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> disconnect installed).
>
> Gardner
> 78FC33
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gardner Yeaw]

Thanks to all for your responses.
I tend to agree that taping into the main brake system is a scary
thing. I wondered about the legality, which was also brought up. I
believe the brakes on my 78FC33 would likley handle my 1995 Jeep
cherokee sport under normal stopping conditions without a problem.
I will look into the SMI system as I still have time to make up my
mind. All I really want is a safe dependable system that will assist
in emergencies and stop the toad in a breakaway situation.

Gardner
78FC33


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw"
wrote:
>
> Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to the
coach
> air brake system and provides proportional braking on the toad.
You
> unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G adapter on
and
> then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks like a
pretty
> good system and costs less than most other devices. (not portable
> between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the air
hose to
> the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> disconnect installed).
>
> Gardner
> 78FC33
>

[Leroy Eckert]

I knew you would have the answer. Thanks

Leroy Eckert
1990 Wb40
Niceville, FL





----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 7:56 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: M&G brake system


The quick-connect is on the accessory circuit. If it failed open, the
air would bleed down to no less than the pressure-protection valve's
pre-set limit, protecting the air supply to the front and rear air
brake circuits (the red and green pointers are for the two air-brake
system tanks, not the accessory system). Ditto for an air-bag
failure, protected.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
wrote:
>
> Hi folks:
> I don't have a dog in this hunt and do not have a plumbing diagram
of my bus air system. Now you got me wondering. I pull a trailer
with electric brakes. My bus was factory fitted with a quick
disconnect in roadside bay #3 , to be used for blowing up the
tires. The pilot air gauge has two pointers, red and green,
indicating redundant systems. Dumb question? If the quick
disconnect in bay #3 failed would I lose all air to the brakes or is
there a check valve somewhere that would prevent the event? If not,
I may consider changing the quick disconnect to an manual shutoff
valve.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: smquandt
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 2:28 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: M&G brake system
>
>
> I used a SMI silent partner on a PT-40/Honda CRV combination, and
> like it. Like Curt I didn't want any surprises in my air brake
> system. One thing that I had to do, probably because the coach is
> steel was move the both send and receive antennas to the rear of
the
> coach to get enough reception to activate the braking system.
There
> isn't enough wire with the SMI and fishing it back there would be
a
> PIA job, but I found enough extra unused wires to get it there.
>
> The system has enough adjustment through the G Force dial that
the
> toad doesn't brake every time you brake the coach. I've got mine
> set so it only comes in moderate to panic stops, like when the
old-
> timer pulled out of the bar in northern Wisconsin yesterday on
HWY
> #8! If I can flatten the learning curve let me know
>
> Steve Quandt
> 1993- PT40
> Iron Mountain, MI
> Currently in Rochester, MN
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Curt Sprenger
> wrote:
> >
> > I looked at the M&G product and SMI products. M&G seemed fine
> except I
> > did not want the possibility of an air leak by tapping and
quick
> > disconnect. I went with the SMI Silent Partner, it should
arrive
> this
> > week. I'll be looking for installation guidance shortly.
> >
> > Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gardner Yeaw wrote:
> >
> > > Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to
the
> coach
> > > air brake system and provides proportional braking on the
toad.
> You
> > > unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G
adapter
> on and
> > > then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks
like a
> pretty
> > > good system and costs less than most other devices. (not
portable
> > > between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the
air
> hose to
> > > the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> > > disconnect installed).
> > >
> > > Gardner
> > > 78FC33
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Pete Masterson]

Gardner,

I guess I'm just a few weeks ahead of you. I plan to tow my '93
Toyota. For supplemental braking, I'm considering the M&G as well as
the SMI system <http://www.smibrake.com/index.html>.

On the AllAboutRVing list, a member there suggested the VIP-
Tow> chart for factors which you can use to do your own rating on braking
systems. Clickon <http://www.viprv.com/index2.html> and look for the
comparison chart.

I like the M&G system because it uses the air brake system of the
coach to control the toad brakes. That seems like a very
straightforward choice. I like the SMI system because it uses the
normal vacuum assist brakes in the tow vehicle and appears to put
less stress on the toad braking system.

The VIP-Tow> other vendors.

Personally, I'm interested in a system that doesn't need to be
(partially) removed to drive the automobile.

I haven't made my decision yet ... but it will be soon.

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 4203
El Sobrante, CA




On Aug 21, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Gardner Yeaw wrote:

> Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to the coach
> air brake system and provides proportional braking on the toad. You
> unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G adapter on and
> then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks like a
> pretty
> good system and costs less than most other devices. (not portable
> between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the air
> hose to
> the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> disconnect installed).
>
> Gardner
> 78FC33



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gardner Yeaw]

Pete,
I ordered the SMI system tonight. I am hesitant to tamper with the air
brake system and the SMI seems to do what I need. It ain't cheap, but spread
out over a few years it isn't that bad. I can install it myself, and that
saves a bit of change right there. I also ordered a Blue Ox tow bar. I may
re-name my BB 'The Flying Dollar'

P.S.
I know with boats, it is considered bad luck to rename it, does that
superstition exist with the RV crowd as well?

Gardner
78FC33

-----Original Message-----
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Pete Masterson
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:25 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] M&G brake system

Gardner,

I guess I'm just a few weeks ahead of you. I plan to tow my '93
Toyota. For supplemental braking, I'm considering the M&G as well as
the SMI system < http://www.smibrake.com/index.html
<http://www.smibrake.com/index.html> >.

On the AllAboutRVing list, a member there suggested the VIP-
Tow> chart for factors which you can use to do your own rating on braking
systems. Clickon < http://www.viprv.com/index2.html
<http://www.viprv.com/index2.html> > and look for the
comparison chart.

I like the M&G system because it uses the air brake system of the
coach to control the toad brakes. That seems like a very
straightforward choice. I like the SMI system because it uses the
normal vacuum assist brakes in the tow vehicle and appears to put
less stress on the toad braking system.

The VIP-Tow> other vendors.

Personally, I'm interested in a system that doesn't need to be
(partially) removed to drive the automobile.

I haven't made my decision yet ... but it will be soon.

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 4203
El Sobrante, CA

On Aug 21, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Gardner Yeaw wrote:

> Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to the coach
> air brake system and provides proportional braking on the toad. You
> unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G adapter on and
> then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks like a
> pretty
> good system and costs less than most other devices. (not portable
> between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the air
> hose to
> the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> disconnect installed).
>
> Gardner
> 78FC33

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Scott Williams]

FWIW
I have had the SMI Silent partner system in use for about 4 years. Adjustable,
nothing to
hook up except the break-away cable, feedback in coach, does not interfear with
use of
car, nothing to take out/put in, wireless comunication (I did have to use the
external
antena on my 45 ft coach)

Have not had a single problem since install.

I was going to go with the M&G but... No feed back to coach when car brakes are
on, and
in the end I found out it would not fit my PT Crusier toad anyway.

BTW, Spartan (my chassis) now makes an add on tank/valve system just for this
purpose.

Scott Williams
04 Essex
http://www.rvsafetycandle.com
================


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson wrote:
>
> Gardner,
>
> I guess I'm just a few weeks ahead of you. I plan to tow my '93
> Toyota. For supplemental braking, I'm considering the M&G as well as
> the SMI system <http://www.smibrake.com/index.html>.
>
> On the AllAboutRVing list, a member there suggested the VIP-
> Tow> > chart for factors which you can use to do your own rating on braking
> systems. Clickon <http://www.viprv.com/index2.html> and look for the
> comparison chart.
>
> I like the M&G system because it uses the air brake system of the
> coach to control the toad brakes. That seems like a very
> straightforward choice. I like the SMI system because it uses the
> normal vacuum assist brakes in the tow vehicle and appears to put
> less stress on the toad braking system.
>
> The VIP-Tow> > other vendors.
>
> Personally, I'm interested in a system that doesn't need to be
> (partially) removed to drive the automobile.
>
> I haven't made my decision yet ... but it will be soon.
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> '95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 4203
> El Sobrante, CA
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Gardner Yeaw wrote:
>
> > Has anyone used the M&G toad braking system? It connects to the coach
> > air brake system and provides proportional braking on the toad. You
> > unbolt the master cylinder in the toad and put the M&G adapter on and
> > then remount the master cylinder to the adapter. It looks like a
> > pretty
> > good system and costs less than most other devices. (not portable
> > between cars, however). Once installed you just connect the air
> > hose to
> > the coach (the coach air system needs to be tapped and a qick
> > disconnect installed).
> >
> > Gardner
> > 78FC33
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Pete Masterson]

Gardner,

The more I study the issue, the more I'm leaning toward the SMI. I'm
also reluctant to mess with the air brake system.

Hopefully, I'll be able to install the SMI myself ... but working
under the hood of a modern car isn't a thrilling adventure to me.
Since I'll also have to install an oil pump for the transmission (so
I can tow four down), I may try to find a mechanic to do both at the
same time. Don't know if that will generate any savings... or not.

(The only reason I've delayed setting up my car, etc. is that we're
in the process of preparing our house for sale. As my dear wife says,
"Finally, we have the house looking great ... then we sell it..."
<sigh>)

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 4203
El Sobrante, CA




On Aug 21, 2006, at 8:05 PM, Gardner Yeaw wrote:

> Pete,
> I ordered the SMI system tonight. I am hesitant to tamper with
> the air
> brake system and the SMI seems to do what I need. It ain't cheap,
> but spread
> out over a few years it isn't that bad. I can install it myself,
> and that
> saves a bit of change right there. I also ordered a Blue Ox tow
> bar. I may
> re-name my BB 'The Flying Dollar'
>
> P.S.
> I know with boats, it is considered bad luck to rename it,
> does that
> superstition exist with the RV crowd as well?
>
> Gardner
> 78FC33



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]