Classic ZF trouble..?? 87FC35

[Alan]

It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem of not going
into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately and now it
won't move. **One potential variation is that I noticed my
tachometer does not seem to be registering properly. At idle,
sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes it's a
little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But I don't know
if there is a connection between what my tach registers and the
trans.

So i've read all the posts here I can find about this. I have
located my throttle position sensor and it appears to be in tact and
functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential problem and
that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found the fix in the
database. The fix says to check the voltage and find the ZF power
supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control module. It is
located underneath the push button gear selectors behind a panel.
It has a large connector on top of it with lots of wires going into
it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.

So I've got a couple of questions if any one has experience with
this:

1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What does it look
like?)
2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am anticipating no real
problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the fix instructs
me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something I can get
from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??

Thanks in advance,
Alan Johnson
87FC35
Dallas, TX

[Gregory OConnor]

Alan, the other half of power supply is ground. Worth a check.
Gregory O'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
wrote:
>
> It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem of not
going
> into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately and now it
> won't move. **One potential variation is that I noticed my
> tachometer does not seem to be registering properly. At idle,
> sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes it's a
> little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But I don't know
> if there is a connection between what my tach registers and the
> trans.
>
> So i've read all the posts here I can find about this. I have
> located my throttle position sensor and it appears to be in tact
and
> functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential problem and
> that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found the fix in
the
> database. The fix says to check the voltage and find the ZF power
> supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control module. It is
> located underneath the push button gear selectors behind a panel.
> It has a large connector on top of it with lots of wires going into
> it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.
>
> So I've got a couple of questions if any one has experience with
> this:
>
> 1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What does it look
> like?)
> 2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am anticipating no real
> problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
> 3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the fix instructs
> me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something I can get
> from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Alan Johnson
> 87FC35
> Dallas, TX
>

[Alan]

5pm Monday update:

I spoke to Dan at ZF trans in Chicago. He was extremely helpful.
We verified I do have low voltage. (7.5v) On my control module
wiring harness, pin #19 is the hot wire. He told me I could jumper
it from a 12 volt source until I locate my problem. I was anxious
to try this to move my coach from in front of my house (so my
neighbors don't get upset).

I started the coach, applied 12 volts to pin #19 and the
transmission engages better than it has in the 2 months i've owned
it. So, I turn it off. Put a few things up and get ready to
relocate it to my back yard.

Now the coach won't turn over at all. I also discovered my front
load panel has a 75amp relay. I was only getting 7.5 volts out of
it to my lower row of circuit breakers. I subsequently bypassed
this relay, but the coach still won't turn over. Is there another
ignition relay somewhere?

Ideas?

Thanks,
Alan Johnson


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
> Alan, the other half of power supply is ground. Worth a check.
> Gregory O'Connor
> 94ptRomolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> wrote:
> >
> > It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem of not
> going
> > into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately and now it
> > won't move. **One potential variation is that I noticed my
> > tachometer does not seem to be registering properly. At idle,
> > sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes it's a
> > little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But I don't
know
> > if there is a connection between what my tach registers and the
> > trans.
> >
> > So i've read all the posts here I can find about this. I have
> > located my throttle position sensor and it appears to be in tact
> and
> > functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential problem and
> > that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found the fix in
> the
> > database. The fix says to check the voltage and find the ZF
power
> > supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control module. It is
> > located underneath the push button gear selectors behind a
panel.
> > It has a large connector on top of it with lots of wires going
into
> > it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.
> >
> > So I've got a couple of questions if any one has experience with
> > this:
> >
> > 1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What does it look
> > like?)
> > 2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am anticipating no
real
> > problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
> > 3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the fix
instructs
> > me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something I can
get
> > from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Alan Johnson
> > 87FC35
> > Dallas, TX
> >
>

[pattypape]

Alan,

Not trying to simplify your problem, But I would try the easy stuff
first. Check, the Neutral button, the Anti/Theft switch on the
dash, and the 12 volt master shut off.

Bill 88 FC Michigan


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
wrote:
>
> 5pm Monday update:
>
> I spoke to Dan at ZF trans in Chicago. He was extremely helpful.
> We verified I do have low voltage. (7.5v) On my control module
> wiring harness, pin #19 is the hot wire. He told me I could
jumper
> it from a 12 volt source until I locate my problem. I was anxious
> to try this to move my coach from in front of my house (so my
> neighbors don't get upset).
>
> I started the coach, applied 12 volts to pin #19 and the
> transmission engages better than it has in the 2 months i've owned
> it. So, I turn it off. Put a few things up and get ready to
> relocate it to my back yard.
>
> Now the coach won't turn over at all. I also discovered my front
> load panel has a 75amp relay. I was only getting 7.5 volts out of
> it to my lower row of circuit breakers. I subsequently bypassed
> this relay, but the coach still won't turn over. Is there another
> ignition relay somewhere?
>
> Ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Alan Johnson
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> wrote:
> >
> > Alan, the other half of power supply is ground. Worth a check.
> > Gregory O'Connor
> > 94ptRomolandCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem of not
> > going
> > > into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately and now
it
> > > won't move. **One potential variation is that I noticed my
> > > tachometer does not seem to be registering properly. At idle,
> > > sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes it's a
> > > little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But I don't
> know
> > > if there is a connection between what my tach registers and
the
> > > trans.
> > >
> > > So i've read all the posts here I can find about this. I have
> > > located my throttle position sensor and it appears to be in
tact
> > and
> > > functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential problem
and
> > > that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found the fix
in
> > the
> > > database. The fix says to check the voltage and find the ZF
> power
> > > supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control module. It
is
> > > located underneath the push button gear selectors behind a
> panel.
> > > It has a large connector on top of it with lots of wires going
> into
> > > it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.
> > >
> > > So I've got a couple of questions if any one has experience
with
> > > this:
> > >
> > > 1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What does it
look
> > > like?)
> > > 2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am anticipating no
> real
> > > problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
> > > 3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the fix
> instructs
> > > me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something I can
> get
> > > from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Alan Johnson
> > > 87FC35
> > > Dallas, TX
> > >
> >
>

[one_dusty_hoot]

Alan,
You need to know why you only have 7.5 VDC
Start at the battery, check all connections, check with a meter.
Measure across each battery, then the total voltage of the two in
series. Could you have a defective battery? Maybe a bad ground?
7.5 V may not cause the starter solenoid to operate, or the fuel shut-
off solenoid fro that matter.
You find this and you probably will find the transmisson works fine.

Bob Janes, '87FC35, Greenville, SC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
wrote:
>
>
>
> Alan,
>
> Not trying to simplify your problem, But I would try the easy
stuff
> first. Check, the Neutral button, the Anti/Theft switch on the
> dash, and the 12 volt master shut off.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> wrote:
> >
> > 5pm Monday update:
> >
> > I spoke to Dan at ZF trans in Chicago. He was extremely
helpful.
> > We verified I do have low voltage. (7.5v) On my control module
> > wiring harness, pin #19 is the hot wire. He told me I could
> jumper
> > it from a 12 volt source until I locate my problem. I was
anxious
> > to try this to move my coach from in front of my house (so my
> > neighbors don't get upset).
> >
> > I started the coach, applied 12 volts to pin #19 and the
> > transmission engages better than it has in the 2 months i've
owned
> > it. So, I turn it off. Put a few things up and get ready to
> > relocate it to my back yard.
> >
> > Now the coach won't turn over at all. I also discovered my front
> > load panel has a 75amp relay. I was only getting 7.5 volts out
of
> > it to my lower row of circuit breakers. I subsequently bypassed
> > this relay, but the coach still won't turn over. Is there
another
> > ignition relay somewhere?
> >
> > Ideas?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alan Johnson
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Alan, the other half of power supply is ground. Worth a check.
> > > Gregory O'Connor
> > > 94ptRomolandCa
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem of
not
> > > going
> > > > into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately and now
> it
> > > > won't move. **One potential variation is that I noticed my
> > > > tachometer does not seem to be registering properly. At
idle,
> > > > sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes it's
a
> > > > little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But I
don't
> > know
> > > > if there is a connection between what my tach registers and
> the
> > > > trans.
> > > >
> > > > So i've read all the posts here I can find about this. I
have
> > > > located my throttle position sensor and it appears to be in
> tact
> > > and
> > > > functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential problem
> and
> > > > that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found the fix
> in
> > > the
> > > > database. The fix says to check the voltage and find the ZF
> > power
> > > > supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control module. It
> is
> > > > located underneath the push button gear selectors behind a
> > panel.
> > > > It has a large connector on top of it with lots of wires
going
> > into
> > > > it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.
> > > >
> > > > So I've got a couple of questions if any one has experience
> with
> > > > this:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What does it
> look
> > > > like?)
> > > > 2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am anticipating no
> > real
> > > > problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
> > > > 3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the fix
> > instructs
> > > > me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something I can
> > get
> > > > from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Alan Johnson
> > > > 87FC35
> > > > Dallas, TX
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Alan]

Bob,

I agree about finding out why I'm only getting 7.5vdc. Here are a
couple of other thing I know.
1. I've got 12v on my batteries (charged new t105s)
2. I've got 12v on my non-ignition circuits. ...so far I've just
found the one set of breakers on my lower front breaker panel that
are on the 75amp relay coming off the ignition.
3. I by-passed that relay and now i'm getting 12v to that set of
breakers.
4. The coach still won't start. I have checked the "normal"
stuff. ...Neutral, a/t switch, 12v coach switch.

All this and nothing at all happens when I turn the ignition key.
Is there another relay somewhere other than the 75amp one I found??
Also, there are two wires coming into that relay that should
activate it. I'm not sure I'm getting power to those. Do those
come directly off the ignition switch or perhaps another relay??

Thanks for your ideas!!
Alan Johnson



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "one_dusty_hoot"
wrote:
>
> Alan,
> You need to know why you only have 7.5 VDC
> Start at the battery, check all connections, check with a meter.
> Measure across each battery, then the total voltage of the two in
> series. Could you have a defective battery? Maybe a bad ground?
> 7.5 V may not cause the starter solenoid to operate, or the fuel
shut-
> off solenoid fro that matter.
> You find this and you probably will find the transmisson works
fine.
>
> Bob Janes, '87FC35, Greenville, SC
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Alan,
> >
> > Not trying to simplify your problem, But I would try the easy
> stuff
> > first. Check, the Neutral button, the Anti/Theft switch on
the
> > dash, and the 12 volt master shut off.
> >
> > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 5pm Monday update:
> > >
> > > I spoke to Dan at ZF trans in Chicago. He was extremely
> helpful.
> > > We verified I do have low voltage. (7.5v) On my control
module
> > > wiring harness, pin #19 is the hot wire. He told me I could
> > jumper
> > > it from a 12 volt source until I locate my problem. I was
> anxious
> > > to try this to move my coach from in front of my house (so my
> > > neighbors don't get upset).
> > >
> > > I started the coach, applied 12 volts to pin #19 and the
> > > transmission engages better than it has in the 2 months i've
> owned
> > > it. So, I turn it off. Put a few things up and get ready to
> > > relocate it to my back yard.
> > >
> > > Now the coach won't turn over at all. I also discovered my
front
> > > load panel has a 75amp relay. I was only getting 7.5 volts
out
> of
> > > it to my lower row of circuit breakers. I subsequently
bypassed
> > > this relay, but the coach still won't turn over. Is there
> another
> > > ignition relay somewhere?
> > >
> > > Ideas?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Alan Johnson
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alan, the other half of power supply is ground. Worth a
check.
> > > > Gregory O'Connor
> > > > 94ptRomolandCa
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"

> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem of
> not
> > > > going
> > > > > into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately and
now
> > it
> > > > > won't move. **One potential variation is that I noticed
my
> > > > > tachometer does not seem to be registering properly. At
> idle,
> > > > > sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes
it's
> a
> > > > > little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But I
> don't
> > > know
> > > > > if there is a connection between what my tach registers
and
> > the
> > > > > trans.
> > > > >
> > > > > So i've read all the posts here I can find about this. I
> have
> > > > > located my throttle position sensor and it appears to be
in
> > tact
> > > > and
> > > > > functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential
problem
> > and
> > > > > that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found the
fix
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > database. The fix says to check the voltage and find the
ZF
> > > power
> > > > > supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control module.
It
> > is
> > > > > located underneath the push button gear selectors behind a
> > > panel.
> > > > > It has a large connector on top of it with lots of wires
> going
> > > into
> > > > > it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I've got a couple of questions if any one has
experience
> > with
> > > > > this:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What does
it
> > look
> > > > > like?)
> > > > > 2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am anticipating
no
> > > real
> > > > > problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
> > > > > 3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the fix
> > > instructs
> > > > > me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something I
can
> > > get
> > > > > from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > > Alan Johnson
> > > > > 87FC35
> > > > > Dallas, TX
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[erniecarpet@...]

Alan, I wonder, that in your pin #19, that a wire might have come loose? On
my 35FC, I had the same problem. Ralph found out a small wire in one of the
connectors had corroded- fixed that, started right up.

Ernie Ekberg
83 PT40
Livingston, Montana



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[dspithaler@...]

Alan This is may not be your trouble but two years mine would not start &
after a week of looking there was a small wire corroded off at the terminal
to a solenoid at the starter.It just fell off when I touched it.
Don
89 SP 36'
Butler, PA

Bob,

I agree about finding out why I'm only getting 7.5vdc. Here are a
couple of other thing I know.
1. I've got 12v on my batteries (charged new t105s)
2. I've got 12v on my non-ignition circuits. ...so far I've just
found the one set of breakers on my lower front breaker panel that
are on the 75amp relay coming off the ignition.
3. I by-passed that relay and now i'm getting 12v to that set of
breakers.
4. The coach still won't start. I have checked the "normal"
stuff. ...Neutral, a/t switch, 12v coach switch.

All this and nothing at all happens when I turn the ignition key.
Is there another relay somewhere other than the 75amp one I found??
Also, there are two wires coming into that relay that should
activate it. I'm not sure I'm getting power to those. Do those
come directly off the ignition switch or perhaps another relay??

Thanks for your ideas!!
Alan Johnson






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[pattypape]

Alan,

Another intermittant troubled area is the multi-pin round twist lock
wire connectors. They are located under the main dash panel. There
are four or five of these connectors. The wires from the ignition
key switch go directly to one of them on the far right side. These
pins carry a lot of current and they tarnish and become
intermittent.
Use electronic contact cleaner, the main dash must be lifted,
careful here lots of wires, gages and switches.
A tipical symtom is that the dash warning lights will not glow and
The buzzers do not sound with the Key turned "On" .

Could also be the ignition switch, solenoid, or a starting ground.

Bill 88 FC Michigan

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, dspithaler@... wrote:
>
>
> Alan This is may not be your trouble but two years mine would
not start &
> after a week of looking there was a small wire corroded off at
the terminal
> to a solenoid at the starter.It just fell off when I touched it.
> Don
> 89 SP 36'
> Butler, PA
>
> Bob,
>
> I agree about finding out why I'm only getting 7.5vdc. Here are a
> couple of other thing I know.
> 1. I've got 12v on my batteries (charged new t105s)
> 2. I've got 12v on my non-ignition circuits. ...so far I've just
> found the one set of breakers on my lower front breaker panel
that
> are on the 75amp relay coming off the ignition.
> 3. I by-passed that relay and now i'm getting 12v to that set of
> breakers.
> 4. The coach still won't start. I have checked the "normal"
> stuff. ...Neutral, a/t switch, 12v coach switch.
>
> All this and nothing at all happens when I turn the ignition key.
> Is there another relay somewhere other than the 75amp one I
found??
> Also, there are two wires coming into that relay that should
> activate it. I'm not sure I'm getting power to those. Do those
> come directly off the ignition switch or perhaps another relay??
>
> Thanks for your ideas!!
> Alan Johnson
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Alan, when you jump pin 19. also jump the wire that fed pin 19.( may
be a relay/ solenoid that needs amp back line) Sounds like the
starter thinks the trans is in gear. Or try and de energize the
control modual completely, start the rig , then plug in pin 19 with a
new hot. It may not hurt to fuse the new hot with a low amp glass
fuse. You could ask zf what the amp draw should be and if it pops
the fuse you have a short some place that may only happen after some
event. If all else fails just rent a Lodge from MikeH.
GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
wrote:
>
> 5pm Monday update:
>
> I spoke to Dan at ZF trans in Chicago. He was extremely helpful.
> We verified I do have low voltage. (7.5v) On my control module
> wiring harness, pin #19 is the hot wire. He told me I could jumper
> it from a 12 volt source until I locate my problem. I was anxious
> to try this to move my coach from in front of my house (so my
> neighbors don't get upset).
>
> I started the coach, applied 12 volts to pin #19 and the
> transmission engages better than it has in the 2 months i've owned
> it. So, I turn it off. Put a few things up and get ready to
> relocate it to my back yard.
>
> Now the coach won't turn over at all. I also discovered my front
> load panel has a 75amp relay. I was only getting 7.5 volts out of
> it to my lower row of circuit breakers. I subsequently bypassed
> this relay, but the coach still won't turn over. Is there another
> ignition relay somewhere?
>
> Ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Alan Johnson
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> wrote:
> >
> > Alan, the other half of power supply is ground. Worth a check.
> > Gregory O'Connor
> > 94ptRomolandCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem of not
> > going
> > > into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately and now it
> > > won't move. **One potential variation is that I noticed my
> > > tachometer does not seem to be registering properly. At idle,
> > > sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes it's a
> > > little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But I don't
> know
> > > if there is a connection between what my tach registers and the
> > > trans.
> > >
> > > So i've read all the posts here I can find about this. I have
> > > located my throttle position sensor and it appears to be in
tact
> > and
> > > functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential problem
and
> > > that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found the fix
in
> > the
> > > database. The fix says to check the voltage and find the ZF
> power
> > > supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control module. It
is
> > > located underneath the push button gear selectors behind a
> panel.
> > > It has a large connector on top of it with lots of wires going
> into
> > > it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.
> > >
> > > So I've got a couple of questions if any one has experience
with
> > > this:
> > >
> > > 1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What does it
look
> > > like?)
> > > 2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am anticipating no
> real
> > > problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
> > > 3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the fix
> instructs
> > > me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something I can
> get
> > > from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Alan Johnson
> > > 87FC35
> > > Dallas, TX
> > >
> >
>