Power steering questions

[davidkerryedwards]

I'm finally getting around to fixing the power steering leak I've had since I
bought the
coach. A perusal of all the maintenance records from new show it to be a
persistent
problem reported first in about 1983 or 4. It has barbed fittings for suction
and return
lines. Suction fitting on Eaton power steering pump has one hump instead of
barbs, like a
heater core. Suction line has been replaced at least once, could be 2 or 3
times. Current
suction line is steel reinforced hose. Return line is original (I think) It is
leaking at all
suction and return line fittings. Not leaking on high pressure line.
I put my non-contact thermometer on the reservoir after about a 10 miles
drive on a
75 degree day and it showed 239 degrees. Typical power steering runs at 150
degrees.
So the Bird power steering fluid is clearly too hot. How to fix?
I plan to replace the hoses with high temperature hose (Gates rubber sells one
rated for
300 degrees) and try to replace all barbed connections with threaded
connections, except
for the barb on the suction line at the pump since that fitting is not
removable. I will also
use synthetic fluid rated for higher temperatures.
Would the steel reinforcing in the current hose mean it could not make a good
seal on the
barbed fitting? The original return line is all rubber.
How much of a temperature drop could I expect in the fluid if I installed a
cooler in the
system? What is the difference in cooling ability of the tube/fin versions with
an electric
fan, tube and fine with no fan, and solid aluminum coolers with no fan but a row
of fins?
How exposed to air movement must these coolers be to be effective? Any
recommendations on a good location?
I considered moving the reservoir to a cooler location but I haven't been able
to find a
location on the bus higher than the power steering pump which will work.
Any advice on how to deal with the problem. I've got the reservoir out, the
suction line
removed and will pull the return line in the near future.

[Dan Darst]

In October I was messin with the power steering. In the span of a week, I
went from Dexron III to straight 30w to mobil 1 10w30 fully synthetic and
finally back to straight 30w. The manaual lists straight 30w as one of the
acceptables. Also changed suction line and return line. The old original
lines were 5/8" heater hose. Go to http://www.discounthydraulichose.com, they sell
what you need. It is made by aeroquip, and has no steel braid, but is quite
stiff so it won't collapse. They also sell the nylon chafe protection that
slips over the hose. I won't be tripping until March (Myrtle), so no
conclusions until then. The suction hose connection (new hose) to the pump
is dripping now, and it will drip for the next four months. After I put some
initial heat to it, I will again tighten the hose clamp. In about a year, if
I find the pump needs to be rebuilt, will also try to change that suction
line fitting on the pump so it points up instead of to the rear, thereby
eliminating the need for the hose to do a 180 degree bend.

dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.


>From: "davidkerryedwards"
>Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Power steering questions
>Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:32:39 -0000
>
>I'm finally getting around to fixing the power steering leak I've had since
>I bought the
>coach. A perusal of all the maintenance records from new show it to be
>a persistent
>problem reported first in about 1983 or 4. It has barbed fittings for
>suction and return
>lines. Suction fitting on Eaton power steering pump has one hump instead of
>barbs, like a
>heater core. Suction line has been replaced at least once, could be 2 or 3
>times. Current
>suction line is steel reinforced hose. Return line is original (I think) It
>is leaking at all
>suction and return line fittings. Not leaking on high pressure line.
> I put my non-contact thermometer on the reservoir after about a 10
>miles drive on a
>75 degree day and it showed 239 degrees. Typical power steering runs at
>150 degrees.
>So the Bird power steering fluid is clearly too hot. How to fix?
> I plan to replace the hoses with high temperature hose (Gates rubber
>sells one rated for
>300 degrees) and try to replace all barbed connections with threaded
>connections, except
>for the barb on the suction line at the pump since that fitting is not
>removable. I will also
>use synthetic fluid rated for higher temperatures.
>Would the steel reinforcing in the current hose mean it could not make a
>good seal on the
>barbed fitting? The original return line is all rubber.
>How much of a temperature drop could I expect in the fluid if I installed a
>cooler in the
>system? What is the difference in cooling ability of the tube/fin versions
>with an electric
>fan, tube and fine with no fan, and solid aluminum coolers with no fan but
>a row of fins?
>How exposed to air movement must these coolers be to be effective? Any
>recommendations on a good location?
>I considered moving the reservoir to a cooler location but I haven't been
>able to find a
>location on the bus higher than the power steering pump which will work.
>Any advice on how to deal with the problem. I've got the reservoir out,
>the suction line
>removed and will pull the return line in the near future.
>

_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
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[davidkerryedwards]

Thanks for the reply. That's not good news about the suction fitting on the
pump. I'm
surprised that fitting is not a typical barbed fitting with multiple barbs. If
it could easily be
changed out, I'd put a threaded connection there. Mine has obviously been
leaking there
from new. If I can't change the fitting, I'll try two hose clamps instead of
one.
I think I'm going to mount an oil cooler on the inside wall of the first storage
compartment
behind the left front wheel. It looks like lines can easily be run back to that
area. My
coach is more susceptible to heat absorption in the PS fluid since I have an
aftermarket
turbo at the left exhaust manifold which heats up the area above it much more
than other
coaches and that is exactly where the PS hoses run. I'm going to use a large
oil cooler
without a fan. (8x11) I think it should reduce heat quite a bit since it is
designed for a
larger volume of hot oil either in a transmission or engine.
I've been able to access the return line be removing the inspection plate in the
floor at the
steering column and removing the back sheet metal wall on the battery
compartment. I
havn't taken the old line off yet but it looks like there will be enough access
to remove and
install without taking out the battery tray itself.
I'll probably try to find a local hydraulic hose supplier so I can get
crimped/threaded
fittings attached.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Darst" wrote:
>
> In October I was messin with the power steering. In the span of a week, I
> went from Dexron III to straight 30w to mobil 1 10w30 fully synthetic and
> finally back to straight 30w. The manaual lists straight 30w as one of the
> acceptables. Also changed suction line and return line. The old original
> lines were 5/8" heater hose. Go to http://www.discounthydraulichose.com, they sell
> what you need. It is made by aeroquip, and has no steel braid, but is quite
> stiff so it won't collapse. They also sell the nylon chafe protection that
> slips over the hose. I won't be tripping until March (Myrtle), so no
> conclusions until then. The suction hose connection (new hose) to the pump
> is dripping now, and it will drip for the next four months. After I put some
> initial heat to it, I will again tighten the hose clamp. In about a year, if
> I find the pump needs to be rebuilt, will also try to change that suction
> line fitting on the pump so it points up instead of to the rear, thereby
> eliminating the need for the hose to do a 180 degree bend.
>
> dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.
>
>
> >From: "davidkerryedwards"
> >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Power steering questions
> >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:32:39 -0000
> >
> >I'm finally getting around to fixing the power steering leak I've had since
> >I bought the
> >coach. A perusal of all the maintenance records from new show it to be
> >a persistent
> >problem reported first in about 1983 or 4. It has barbed fittings for
> >suction and return
> >lines. Suction fitting on Eaton power steering pump has one hump instead of
> >barbs, like a
> >heater core. Suction line has been replaced at least once, could be 2 or 3
> >times. Current
> >suction line is steel reinforced hose. Return line is original (I think) It
> >is leaking at all
> >suction and return line fittings. Not leaking on high pressure line.
> > I put my non-contact thermometer on the reservoir after about a 10
> >miles drive on a
> >75 degree day and it showed 239 degrees. Typical power steering runs at
> >150 degrees.
> >So the Bird power steering fluid is clearly too hot. How to fix?
> > I plan to replace the hoses with high temperature hose (Gates rubber
> >sells one rated for
> >300 degrees) and try to replace all barbed connections with threaded
> >connections, except
> >for the barb on the suction line at the pump since that fitting is not
> >removable. I will also
> >use synthetic fluid rated for higher temperatures.
> >Would the steel reinforcing in the current hose mean it could not make a
> >good seal on the
> >barbed fitting? The original return line is all rubber.
> >How much of a temperature drop could I expect in the fluid if I installed a
> >cooler in the
> >system? What is the difference in cooling ability of the tube/fin versions
> >with an electric
> >fan, tube and fine with no fan, and solid aluminum coolers with no fan but
> >a row of fins?
> >How exposed to air movement must these coolers be to be effective? Any
> >recommendations on a good location?
> >I considered moving the reservoir to a cooler location but I haven't been
> >able to find a
> >location on the bus higher than the power steering pump which will work.
> >Any advice on how to deal with the problem. I've got the reservoir out,
> >the suction line
> >removed and will pull the return line in the near future.
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020...ef=http://
get.live.com/messenger/overview
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

Keep in mind, you can't really over size the return line to the pump and a
auxiliary reservoir close to the pump would be a worthy modification, as would a
cooler.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Darst
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Power steering questions


In October I was messin with the power steering. In the span of a week, I
went from Dexron III to straight 30w to mobil 1 10w30 fully synthetic and
finally back to straight 30w. The manaual lists straight 30w as one of the
acceptables. Also changed suction line and return line. The old original
lines were 5/8" heater hose. Go to http://www.discounthydraulichose.com, they sell
what you need. It is made by aeroquip, and has no steel braid, but is quite
stiff so it won't collapse. They also sell the nylon chafe protection that
slips over the hose. I won't be tripping until March (Myrtle), so no
conclusions until then. The suction hose connection (new hose) to the pump
is dripping now, and it will drip for the next four months. After I put some
initial heat to it, I will again tighten the hose clamp. In about a year, if
I find the pump needs to be rebuilt, will also try to change that suction
line fitting on the pump so it points up instead of to the rear, thereby
eliminating the need for the hose to do a 180 degree bend.

dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.

>From: "davidkerryedwards"
>Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Power steering questions
>Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:32:39 -0000
>
>I'm finally getting around to fixing the power steering leak I've had since
>I bought the
>coach. A perusal of all the maintenance records from new show it to be
>a persistent
>problem reported first in about 1983 or 4. It has barbed fittings for
>suction and return
>lines. Suction fitting on Eaton power steering pump has one hump instead of
>barbs, like a
>heater core. Suction line has been replaced at least once, could be 2 or 3
>times. Current
>suction line is steel reinforced hose. Return line is original (I think) It
>is leaking at all
>suction and return line fittings. Not leaking on high pressure line.
> I put my non-contact thermometer on the reservoir after about a 10
>miles drive on a
>75 degree day and it showed 239 degrees. Typical power steering runs at
>150 degrees.
>So the Bird power steering fluid is clearly too hot. How to fix?
> I plan to replace the hoses with high temperature hose (Gates rubber
>sells one rated for
>300 degrees) and try to replace all barbed connections with threaded
>connections, except
>for the barb on the suction line at the pump since that fitting is not
>removable. I will also
>use synthetic fluid rated for higher temperatures.
>Would the steel reinforcing in the current hose mean it could not make a
>good seal on the
>barbed fitting? The original return line is all rubber.
>How much of a temperature drop could I expect in the fluid if I installed a
>cooler in the
>system? What is the difference in cooling ability of the tube/fin versions
>with an electric
>fan, tube and fine with no fan, and solid aluminum coolers with no fan but
>a row of fins?
>How exposed to air movement must these coolers be to be effective? Any
>recommendations on a good location?
>I considered moving the reservoir to a cooler location but I haven't been
>able to find a
>location on the bus higher than the power steering pump which will work.
>Any advice on how to deal with the problem. I've got the reservoir out,
>the suction line
>removed and will pull the return line in the near future.
>

__________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020...t.liv\
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[davidkerryedwards]

I hadn't considered the idea of an auxilliary reservoir. Any ideas on how to
tie the two
together?
I'm not sure what you mean by oversizing the return line? A larger size is
better or literally,
I'll have to stick with the original size?
I ordered the cooler today and scoped out a route for the lines back to the
inside of the left
front storage compartment which has a nice flat surface easily drilled to
install the cooler.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" <MHOHNSTEIN@...>
wrote:
>
> Keep in mind, you can't really over size the return line to the pump and a
auxiliary
reservoir close to the pump would be a worthy modification, as would a cooler.
> MH
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

Pumps like the medium to be transferred in abundance at the inlet. That's why a
water well has the pump down in the hole. Consider the reservoir on most autos
or light trucks, connect the dots.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: davidkerryedwards
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Power steering questions


I hadn't considered the idea of an auxilliary reservoir. Any ideas on how to
tie the two
together?
I'm not sure what you mean by oversizing the return line? A larger size is
better or literally,
I'll have to stick with the original size?
I ordered the cooler today and scoped out a route for the lines back to the
inside of the left
front storage compartment which has a nice flat surface easily drilled to
install the cooler.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" <MHOHNSTEIN@...>
wrote:
>
> Keep in mind, you can't really over size the return line to the pump and a
auxiliary
reservoir close to the pump would be a worthy modification, as would a cooler.
> MH
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gregory OConnor]

I notice that Hydrolic hoses that bend between fittings in a
stationary pose will split between the cords (unseen on surface) if
you compound the bend with a twist. The shop that rebuilds my
hydrostats (tractor transmissions) draw a line on the relaxed hoses
(down the length) and keep the line even throughout the bend. Some
gates hoses have a line printed for this purpose. It is difficult to
keep the hose from spinning as you tighten down a fitting. Even with
the band clamps , I found alignment is helpful.

Bending hoses dont have as much friction loss as hard angle
fittings. However, with hoses you get a degree of spongeyness and
reaction lag. Up sizeing the hose and all the fittings between a
hydrolic pump and steering also reduced the friction loss causes by
restrictive fittings along the way.
Increasing pump size past the capabilities of the steering will be
hard on the pump unless there is a blowoff valve with sufficient
bypass capabilities. The two are kinda a matched set. Overloads of
pressure and volumn appear in blown seals and hoses.

I never have to oil my Redwings

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> Keep in mind, you can't really over size the return line to the
pump and a auxiliary reservoir close to the pump would be a worthy
modification, as would a cooler.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Darst
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 11:12 AM
> Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Power steering questions
>
>
> In October I was messin with the power steering. In the span of a
week, I
> went from Dexron III to straight 30w to mobil 1 10w30 fully
synthetic and
> finally back to straight 30w. The manaual lists straight 30w as
one of the
> acceptables. Also changed suction line and return line. The old
original
> lines were 5/8" heater hose. Go to http://www.discounthydraulichose.com,
they sell
> what you need. It is made by aeroquip, and has no steel braid,
but is quite
> stiff so it won't collapse. They also sell the nylon chafe
protection that
> slips over the hose. I won't be tripping until March (Myrtle), so
no
> conclusions until then. The suction hose connection (new hose) to
the pump
> is dripping now, and it will drip for the next four months. After
I put some
> initial heat to it, I will again tighten the hose clamp. In about
a year, if
> I find the pump needs to be rebuilt, will also try to change that
suction
> line fitting on the pump so it points up instead of to the rear,
thereby
> eliminating the need for the hose to do a 180 degree bend.
>
> dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.
>
> >From: "davidkerryedwards"
> >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Power steering questions
> >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:32:39 -0000
> >
> >I'm finally getting around to fixing the power steering leak
I've had since
> >I bought the
> >coach. A perusal of all the maintenance records from new show it
to be
> >a persistent
> >problem reported first in about 1983 or 4. It has barbed
fittings for
> >suction and return
> >lines. Suction fitting on Eaton power steering pump has one hump
instead of
> >barbs, like a
> >heater core. Suction line has been replaced at least once, could
be 2 or 3
> >times. Current
> >suction line is steel reinforced hose. Return line is original
(I think) It
> >is leaking at all
> >suction and return line fittings. Not leaking on high pressure
line.
> > I put my non-contact thermometer on the reservoir after about a
10
> >miles drive on a
> >75 degree day and it showed 239 degrees. Typical power steering
runs at
> >150 degrees.
> >So the Bird power steering fluid is clearly too hot. How to fix?
> > I plan to replace the hoses with high temperature hose (Gates
rubber
> >sells one rated for
> >300 degrees) and try to replace all barbed connections with
threaded
> >connections, except
> >for the barb on the suction line at the pump since that fitting
is not
> >removable. I will also
> >use synthetic fluid rated for higher temperatures.
> >Would the steel reinforcing in the current hose mean it could
not make a
> >good seal on the
> >barbed fitting? The original return line is all rubber.
> >How much of a temperature drop could I expect in the fluid if I
installed a
> >cooler in the
> >system? What is the difference in cooling ability of the
tube/fin versions
> >with an electric
> >fan, tube and fine with no fan, and solid aluminum coolers with
no fan but
> >a row of fins?
> >How exposed to air movement must these coolers be to be
effective? Any
> >recommendations on a good location?
> >I considered moving the reservoir to a cooler location but I
haven't been
> >able to find a
> >location on the bus higher than the power steering pump which
will work.
> >Any advice on how to deal with the problem. I've got the
reservoir out,
> >the suction line
> >removed and will pull the return line in the near future.
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020...irect/01/?
href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[The Squires]

Mike,

I agree with you, but only submergible water well pumps are down in the
water. Many of us still use jet pumps with the pump at the top off the
well.

Jimmy
-----Original Message-----
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:55 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Power steering questions


Pumps like the medium to be transferred in abundance at the inlet. That's
why a water well has the pump down in the hole. Consider the reservoir on
most autos or light trucks, connect the dots.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: davidkerryedwards
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Power steering questions

I hadn't considered the idea of an auxilliary reservoir. Any ideas on how
to tie the two
together?
I'm not sure what you mean by oversizing the return line? A larger size is
better or literally,
I'll have to stick with the original size?
I ordered the cooler today and scoped out a route for the lines back to
the inside of the left
front storage compartment which has a nice flat surface easily drilled to
install the cooler.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" <MHOHNSTEIN@...>
wrote:
>
> Keep in mind, you can't really over size the return line to the pump and
a auxiliary
reservoir close to the pump would be a worthy modification, as would a
cooler.
> MH
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[davidkerryedwards]

I'm still working on my power steering. The hoses are 5/8. The reservoir's
threaded inlet
and outlet holes are 1/2 pipe thread. These threads have a reducer inserted to
3/8 which
has a 3/8 pipe thread with a 5/8 barb on them. Can anyone explain why BB would
reduce
the fittings to 3/8 before installing the 5/8 barb? It reduces the size of the
hole available for
the fluid to flow thru. It seems counterintuitive to have 5/8 hose reduced to
3/8 at the
reservoir. I'm planning on removing the 3/8 reducer and installing a 1/2 thread
with 5/8
barb in its place. I may also install a larger reservoir if it will fit. I
bought the larger reservoir
on Ebay. It's made by the same company as the original but it may be too tall
and might hit
the lid of the doghouse. If it doesn't fit, at least the lid is vented and I
think it should replace
the original.
I've got the cooler installed and have run new 300 degree hose for the return
line. I will cover
the suction line which runs close to the manifold with Firesleeve to reduce the
heat
absorption.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver