Cold Weather Plumbing

[davidkerryedwards]

It could be that simply cutting vents into those areas could be enough by
itself. The
previous owner of my previous Travco had done just that to keep the pipes warm.
If air
can circulate in the pipe runs, and no pipes run on the outside you should be ok
in pretty
cold temperatures.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote:
>
> Ernie I believe you said you took the side panels off between the
> rear bedroom wall and the wall just prior to the side bath. How much
> room is there in there? In my coach there are freeze heaters in the
> rear, the bathroom and under the kitchen sink etc.
>
> Just a guess at this point but why not just cut small vents in the
> side panels and install small 12 volt computer fans that will suck
> warm air from the room into those spots? Would not take much air to
> stop them from freezing.
>
> Appears to be two problems. The first is for those that store their
> coaches in cold weather and the second is for those that use them.
>
> tom warner
> vernon center,ny

[Tom Warner]

Ernie as a "carpet expert" this should be a piece of cake for you. I
believe you can get these small 120vac fans with a register cover.
Just cut a hole and fit one in. You can pick 120VAC off from any wall
outlet to power it, even put a switch to turn them on and off. Make
sure you put a fan in one space and a return where ever you want the
air to flow.
http://tinyurl.com/ykjdkf

In fact in my coach there is a register about 6-8" long below each
stand at the side of the bed I presume to duct air from the freeze
heaters in the back thru that space.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40


"boosters" that are self contained At 12:54 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:
>Tom, your idea about the computer fans may do the trick. The box that covers
>the lines is 6 inches high by 3 inches wide- plenty of room for a small
>pancake fan. I might go to an electronics store this weekend and
>check those out.
>Running 12 volts shouldn't be a problem. Ernie- 83PT40 in Texas- getting
>ready to put all my bus back together
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Terry Neal]

Hello Bill,

Yes, I will retain the air blow out capability. One of the reasons I
have a separate air compressor to plumb into the air system. Am
thinking I'll set up a hot water heater bypass & then install an inlet
to pull RV antifreeze into the system to protect everything for a more
long term storage. Will use air most of the time though since I use the
coach in the winter. If I can get it down to a 5-10 minute process to
drain all the water lines & purge the system with air, that will work.
May even use some air or 12 volt valves (sporlan type) to make it
quicker. I don't use the Bird fresh water tanks in the winter, just the
shore water hook up. Thanks for your input on the use of the air.

Terry Neal
Bozeman, MT
82PT40
74FC34



Wilhelmus Schreurs wrote:

> Hi:
> Been following your posts about the water system. I know BB has a air
> system to blow the water out, have you, or are you still going to
> retain that system. I have had trailers and 5th wheel, for the last 30
> years and never used that, but used the RV antifreeze.
> If you set the system up, it would be very easy to winterize, bypass
> the hotwater tank, and pump the RV antifreeze through the lines.
> Any comments??
>
> Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
> Terrace, B.C. Canada
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Terry Neal > >
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2006 5:01:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing
>
> Thanks much Ernie. This gives me a good start. Will gather all the
>
> parts & pieces first & then tackle it when we have some warmer days.
>
> I'll pull the covers off the lines in the rear bedroom too. Will try &
>
> use some sort of heat system on the lines where I can get close to
> outlets.
>
> Froze the hot water line from the tank down the driver's side going to
>
> the bathroom. Should remember that hot water freezes first over cold.
>
> Terry Neal
>
> Bozeman, MT
>
> 82PT40
>
> 74FC34
>
> erniecarpet@ aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hi terry- i used 1/2 inch Pex that I got at Mountain supply in
>
> > Bozeman. Home
>
> > depot has it there- but only in white. i wanted the red and blue and I
>
> > used
>
> > compression fittings. To do this project- is going to be tough, since
>
> > Bluebird
>
> > built the coach, added the plumbing and then added cabinets to cover all
>
> > that up. it took me a whole weekend trying to figure out how to get
>
> > the curb
>
> > side run- to kitchen sink done. The absolute WORST part was trying to
>
> > get the
>
> > crimping tool in these little crevices.
>
> > I tried to use heat tape, but the tape I used I had to plug into an
>
> > outlet
>
> > that was in close proximity to the freeze protection heater- DUH- I
>
> > was on
>
> > overload at that time- so the thermostat on the heat tape never got
>
> > cold enough
>
> > , there- of course, the further away from that thermostat the pipes
>
> > ran- the
>
> > colder it became- thus frozen. I finally resorted to taking the covers
>
> > - the
>
> > wood ones covered in carpet- off so heat could get to the side walls.
>
> > That old copper is so old and stiff, i was afraid I would mess
>
> > something up
>
> > someplace.
>
> > Ask me about flooring- plumbing is not my bag.
>
> > But- there has got to be a better way- a small heater we could use in
>
> > these
>
> > runs because there is approx a 4 x 6 inch opening that needs heat.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ernie Ekberg
>
> > 83PT40
>
> > Weatherford, tx
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Terry Neal]

Ernie, I have seen somewhere (CRS again) an insulation with built in
heat tape for water lines. It's something like that foam wrap that is
used on residential water lines with the addition of the "heat tape".
You just add more sections & plug them together as needed. Kind of like
Xmas lights. I'll do some searching.

Terry Neal
Bozeman, MT
82PT40
74FC34



erniecarpet@... wrote:

> Installing a bypass and injecting antifreeze in all the pipes might be
> well
> suited to folks that do not use their coach in the winter. Since we live
> further south of the deep freeze, we use ours year round. in fact, I
> guess i could
> have considered myself a fulltimer as I was in the coach 10 months this
> year.
> What I was trying to get across, and hopefully I can this time. I
> would like
> to be able to stay up in Montana longer- that is if I had a good
> system in
> place where my water wouldn't freeze if it got to be zero outside for a
> prolonged time.
> Is heat tape the ONLY solution that is on the market?
> It would be nice if there were small heaters- not noisy hair dryers that
> could operate and send warm air down the side runs of the coach.
> On my coach, the chassis heater lines do not run down the fresh water
> runs-
> thus I couldn't use those. By the way, my chassis heaters saved our butts
> driving home.
>
>
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, tx
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Wilhelmus Schreurs]

Ernie:

The holding tanks are probably the easiest to solve. Why not just use the
antifreeze in it?

Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
Terrace, B.C. Canada




----- Original Message ----
From: "erniecarpet@..."
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2006 3:15:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing

Terry- i like that idea. And if that would work, with the addition of the
computer fans- I might have stayed in Montana longer. Next I'll have to do
something about frozen holding tanks.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, tx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

If Ernie is talking about leaving the coach in an rv park for the
winter or somewhere where he has power available, in my opinion do it
like the BB factory originally did it. Stick heat tapes around the
holding tanks and spray marine urethane over them. On both my 1982
FC35 and the 1985 PT 40 I now have it has that option. Easy to apply
and not expensive.

tom warner
vernon center, ny
1985 PT 40....presently installing the bypass lines so I can quickly
install antifreeze and protect all of the fresh water lines. Easier
on the PT then the FC

At 08:50 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:
>Ernie:
>
>The holding tanks are probably the easiest to solve. Why not just
>use the antifreeze in it?
>
>Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
>Terrace, B.C. Canada
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: "erniecarpet@..."
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2006 3:15:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing
>
>Terry- i like that idea. And if that would work, with the addition of the
>computer fans- I might have stayed in Montana longer. Next I'll have to do
>something about frozen holding tanks.
>
>Ernie Ekberg
>83PT40
>Weatherford, tx
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Stephen Birtles]

for that to work successfully you have to have a hot return from the
farthest faucet requires another pump but can be done succesfully and
only works when faucet is running

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wilhelmus Schreurs
wrote:
>
> Ernie:
> What about having your hot and cold water lines together,insulated
in a blanket or something like that, and then circulate the hotwater
throughout the hot water lines? That way you would not require the
heat tape or forced air fans.
>
> Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
> Terrace, B.C. Canada
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "erniecarpet@..."
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2006 6:04:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing
>
> Installing a bypass and injecting antifreeze in all the pipes might
be well
> suited to folks that do not use their coach in the winter. Since we
live
> further south of the deep freeze, we use ours year round. in fact, I
guess i could
> have considered myself a fulltimer as I was in the coach 10 months this
> year.
> What I was trying to get across, and hopefully I can this time. I
would like
> to be able to stay up in Montana longer- that is if I had a good
system in
> place where my water wouldn't freeze if it got to be zero outside for a
> prolonged time.
> Is heat tape the ONLY solution that is on the market?
> It would be nice if there were small heaters- not noisy hair dryers
that
> could operate and send warm air down the side runs of the coach.
> On my coach, the chassis heater lines do not run down the fresh
water runs-
> thus I couldn't use those. By the way, my chassis heaters saved our
butts
> driving home.
>
>
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, tx
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Chuck Wheeler]

Ernie,
How cold of weather were you in? We go north every other year for Christmas
and the family comes south on the odd years and we go up each February for
our granddaughter's birthday. We are headed to Alliance NE about the
18th. In the past it hasn't been a problem is it unusually cold or were you
farther north?

- Chuck Wheeler -
82 FC 31 SB
Fort Worth, TX


_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erniecarpet@...
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 5:15 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing



Terry- i like that idea. And if that would work, with the addition of the
computer fans- I might have stayed in Montana longer. Next I'll have to do
something about frozen holding tanks.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, tx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Chuck Wheeler]

The water lines in our FC have heat tape around them. It appears to be
factory and runs from the tanks under the bed all the way to the shower.
The power is controlled under the bath cabinet about where the water drain
valve is located. It also has the power control for the grey and black
water tank heaters at the same location. I also discovered that the propane
furnaces return air flows along the pipe tray from an intake next to the
refrigerator. When we travel in real cold weather I always leave the rear
and middle heaters on instead of using the chassis to keep air moving along
the pipe tray. So far we haven't frozen but we are about to test it again
during the holidays. If it really gets cold I will probably start he
generator so the heat tape, tank heaters, and other frost heaters will have
power.

- Chuck Wheeler -
82 FC 31 SB
Fort Worth, TX


_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Neal
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 5:06 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing



Ernie, I have seen somewhere (CRS again) an insulation with built in
heat tape for water lines. It's something like that foam wrap that is
used on residential water lines with the addition of the "heat tape".
You just add more sections & plug them together as needed. Kind of like
Xmas lights. I'll do some searching.

Terry Neal
Bozeman, MT
82PT40
74FC34

erniecarpet@ aol.com wrote:

> Installing a bypass and injecting antifreeze in all the pipes might be
> well
> suited to folks that do not use their coach in the winter. Since we live
> further south of the deep freeze, we use ours year round. in fact, I
> guess i could
> have considered myself a fulltimer as I was in the coach 10 months this
> year.
> What I was trying to get across, and hopefully I can this time. I
> would like
> to be able to stay up in Montana longer- that is if I had a good
> system in
> place where my water wouldn't freeze if it got to be zero outside for a
> prolonged time.
> Is heat tape the ONLY solution that is on the market?
> It would be nice if there were small heaters- not noisy hair dryers that
> could operate and send warm air down the side runs of the coach.
> On my coach, the chassis heater lines do not run down the fresh water
> runs-
> thus I couldn't use those. By the way, my chassis heaters saved our butts
> driving home.
>
>
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, tx
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Terry Neal]

Hi Stephen,

How are you? Staying warm up North I hope.

How would a recirculating pump on the hot water line (at the end)
pumping the hot water back to the water heater itself work? I'm
thinking another Groco 12 volt pump with a switch to turn it on/off when
needed. Like the ones used in residential construction so that you have
instant hot water at all faucets all the time? I think that would be a
good solution. My system needs to be usable down to -20 or -30 & on
shore power or generator. With enough insulation & keeping the water
moving, that may be the answer?

Terry Neal
Bozeman, MT
82PT40
74FC34



Stephen Birtles wrote:

> for that to work successfully you have to have a hot return from the
> farthest faucet requires another pump but can be done succesfully and
> only works when faucet is running
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> , Wilhelmus Schreurs
> wrote:
> >
> > Ernie:
> > What about having your hot and cold water lines together,insulated
> in a blanket or something like that, and then circulate the hotwater
> throughout the hot water lines? That way you would not require the
> heat tape or forced air fans.
> >
> > Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
> > Terrace, B.C. Canada
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: "erniecarpet@..."
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2006 6:04:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing
> >
> > Installing a bypass and injecting antifreeze in all the pipes might
> be well
> > suited to folks that do not use their coach in the winter. Since we
> live
> > further south of the deep freeze, we use ours year round. in fact, I
> guess i could
> > have considered myself a fulltimer as I was in the coach 10 months this
> > year.
> > What I was trying to get across, and hopefully I can this time. I
> would like
> > to be able to stay up in Montana longer- that is if I had a good
> system in
> > place where my water wouldn't freeze if it got to be zero outside for a
> > prolonged time.
> > Is heat tape the ONLY solution that is on the market?
> > It would be nice if there were small heaters- not noisy hair dryers
> that
> > could operate and send warm air down the side runs of the coach.
> > On my coach, the chassis heater lines do not run down the fresh
> water runs-
> > thus I couldn't use those. By the way, my chassis heaters saved our
> butts
> > driving home.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ernie Ekberg
> > 83PT40
> > Weatherford, tx
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com <http://mail.yahoo.com>
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>