Experienced Help Please

[bennyjamesthedog]

My husband and I have decided that we would like to purchase an old
Bluebird Wanderlodge (late 70s/80s). They are very unique. We are
just starting to learn about them and intend to gather info over the
summer to verify that we haven't lost our minds and then to actually
make a purchase toward the end of the year.
As all of you appear to own one and love them, we thought that
perhaps you could guide us on what to look for based on your
experiences. We are total novices as it relates to these units so
any input would help.

Examples of our questions are below:

How many miles is too many miles? For example we see some at 50,000
miles and some at 140,000 is the latter too many?

Is it unreasonable to think we can purchase one from the late
70s/early 80s and expect it to be reliable?

If you were to break down is it hard to locate people that can work
on these units? Can any diesel truck mechanic fix these things?

When buying one are there certain things that we should focus the
most attention on because they are the most expensive to fix?

Is there a noticeable power difference in the late 70s non-turbo
engine vs. the 80s engine with the extra power?.

What is the expected fuel mileage on of these units?.

That's it for now. We greatly appreciate your input on any of these
items. And we look forward to meeting up with you someday in our
new 'old' rig.

Bob and Sue James and Benny the dog.

[fred brown]

Dear Mr and Mrs James I have a 1983 pt 40 in excelent condition that will be
available this spring/ summer. For more details email me at my private address.
Fred Brown
.----- Original Message ----
From: bennyjamesthedog <bennyjamesthedog@...>
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:07:13 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Experienced Help Please

My husband and I have decided that we would like to purchase an old
Bluebird Wanderlodge (late 70s/80s). They are very unique. We are
just starting to learn about them and intend to gather info over the
summer to verify that we haven't lost our minds and then to actually
make a purchase toward the end of the year.
As all of you appear to own one and love them, we thought that
perhaps you could guide us on what to look for based on your
experiences. We are total novices as it relates to these units so
any input would help.

Examples of our questions are below:

How many miles is too many miles? For example we see some at 50,000
miles and some at 140,000 is the latter too many?

Is it unreasonable to think we can purchase one from the late
70s/early 80s and expect it to be reliable?

If you were to break down is it hard to locate people that can work
on these units? Can any diesel truck mechanic fix these things?

When buying one are there certain things that we should focus the
most attention on because they are the most expensive to fix?

Is there a noticeable power difference in the late 70s non-turbo
engine vs. the 80s engine with the extra power?.

What is the expected fuel mileage on of these units?.

That's it for now. We greatly appreciate your input on any of these
items. And we look forward to meeting up with you someday in our
new 'old' rig.

Bob and Sue James and Benny the dog.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mbulriss]

Bob and Sue James and Benny the dog,

Welcome to the WanderlodgeForum! Hopefully you will receive plenty of
opinions here. I am so behind the times.... looks like I need to get
the cat an email address! LOL!

I will vouch for Fred's coach if you are interested. It was great
coach for us before Fred bought it.

In reference to your specific questions and comments, my *opinions*
are listed below behind your questions. I am sure others will respond
also.

> My husband and I have decided that we would like to purchase an old
> Bluebird Wanderlodge (late 70s/80s).
Excellent choice! You did not indicate whether you were leaning
toward a FC or PT model. If you are not familiar with those initials,
you need to visit http://www.vintagebirds.com and peruse the history section.

> How many miles is too many miles? For example we see some at 50,000
> miles and some at 140,000 is the latter too many?
The corollary is how many miles are too few? A 20 year old coach with
10,000 miles could have more problems than one with 150,000. One that
was never used may have dried out seals, belts, hoses, tires, etc.
As long as proper maintenance was kept up is the *key*. 50,000 miles
is nothing on these big diesels, barely broken in. Likewise 140k is
no concern with proper maintenance. With bad maintenance and owner
inattention to water temp and oil pressure, 25,000 could be a fatal
problem.

> Is it unreasonable to think we can purchase one from the late
> 70s/early 80s and expect it to be reliable?
No, it is not unreasonable to expect. However, once again maintenance
and upkeep are keys in that answer. Get a qualified person to inspect
any coach you look at if you are unfamiliar with RVs or diesels in
general. We have members that can do that for you for a fee. Have
the running gear checked over by a diesel mechanic. Have an oil
analysis performed if you can, and check the antifreeze pH. Keep an
emergency fund just in case since you are looking at 25-30 year old
vehicles and things just plain wear out. On the other hand these
Birds should still outlive most of their current owners, with proper
maintenance.

> If you were to break down is it hard to locate people that can work
> on these units? Can any diesel truck mechanic fix these things?
Generally speaking, no, depending on very remote locations. FMCA has
an inexpensive emergency road service to take the worry out of finding
repair help. Most heavy diesel repair shops can work on these things.

> When buying one are there certain things that we should focus the
> most attention on because they are the most expensive to fix?
In my mind running gear maintenance is very important since diesels
and transmissions are very expensive to replace. Most everything else
pales in comparison in terms of cost to repair/replace/upgrade.

> Is there a noticeable power difference in the late 70s non-turbo
> engine vs. the 80s engine with the extra power?.
Oh yes. Remember the FC models had gas engines available until 1978
and the 1977 model year offered 3208 CAT motors, normally aspirated or
turbo depending on year; the early 80 PTs have Detroit Diesel 6V or
8V92 engines, all turbo.

> What is the expected fuel mileage on of these units?.
Oh my, sensitive topic. Remember the sign over Bass Pro Shops?
Welcome fishermen, hunters and other liars? LOL. MPG calculations
can sometimes be a source of great debate. Remember the FC is much
lighter than the PTs. Weight and speed have great impact on MPG. The
FCs will get better mileage (have heard 8-10mpg) than the PT (have
personally experienced 5-7 - 8 on a very good day all downhill at less
than the speed limit). The WB models (1988 on) are even heavier and
get about 5mpg uphill, downhill or on the flats.

OK, that's my time for now. Rebuttals, disagreements and corrections
should begin anytime.

Enjoy the forum.

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, fred brown
wrote:
>
> Dear Mr and Mrs James I have a 1983 pt 40 in excelent condition that
will be available this spring/ summer. For more details email me at my
private address.
> Fred Brown
> .----- Original Message ----
> From: bennyjamesthedog <bennyjamesthedog@...>
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:07:13 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Experienced Help Please
>
> My husband and I have decided that we would like to purchase an old
> Bluebird Wanderlodge (late 70s/80s). They are very unique. We are
> just starting to learn about them and intend to gather info over the
> summer to verify that we haven't lost our minds and then to actually
> make a purchase toward the end of the year.
> As all of you appear to own one and love them, we thought that
> perhaps you could guide us on what to look for based on your
> experiences. We are total novices as it relates to these units so
> any input would help.
>
> Examples of our questions are below:
>
> How many miles is too many miles? For example we see some at 50,000
> miles and some at 140,000 is the latter too many?
>
> Is it unreasonable to think we can purchase one from the late
> 70s/early 80s and expect it to be reliable?
>
> If you were to break down is it hard to locate people that can work
> on these units? Can any diesel truck mechanic fix these things?
>
> When buying one are there certain things that we should focus the
> most attention on because they are the most expensive to fix?
>
> Is there a noticeable power difference in the late 70s non-turbo
> engine vs. the 80s engine with the extra power?.
>
> What is the expected fuel mileage on of these units?.
>
> That's it for now. We greatly appreciate your input on any of these
> items. And we look forward to meeting up with you someday in our
> new 'old' rig.
>
> Bob and Sue James and Benny the dog.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Pete Masterson]

On Jan 31, 2007, at 7:07 AM, bennyjamesthedog wrote:

> <snip>
>
> How many miles is too many miles? For example we see some at 50,000
> miles and some at 140,000 is the latter too many?

The Wanderlodge is built on a bus chassis. These are designed for
very high mileage use. With proper care and maintenance, they can
last for a million miles. The key, is, however, "proper care and
maintenance" -- unfortunately there's no guarantee that has happened
in the past.

I would be more concerned with low mileage rather than high mileage.
There are issues with "rot" when the vehicle isn't used regularly --
and required maintenance may have been skipped because it was the
"mileage" for it to be performed (despite most preventive maintenance
recommendations being based on both time and mileage.)

The actual physical condition of the vehicle is more important than
the nominal mileage. You may wish to get an experienced BB person to
do a physical inspection once you narrow down candidates of interest
to you.

> Is it unreasonable to think we can purchase one from the late
> 70s/early 80s and expect it to be reliable?

Reasonably so ... you will have issues with some components,
particularly "house" items like refrigerators and microwaves that
tend to have a shorter life span than the chassis. It's wise to also
expect deferred maintenance on some mechanical items -- but based on
a thorough evaluation of the selected vehicle it may be OK if you
have a budget to cover ... do try to avoid "project" vehicles that
need extensive restoration unless you are a mechanical "hobbiest."

Visit the Vintage Birds web site <http://www.vintagebirds.com/> and
study the history and the Wanderlodge Model Changes listing that
describes changes, upgrades, and improvements from year to year. You
may, for example, wish air suspension (or not) so that may affect the
model years you wish to consider.

> If you were to break down is it hard to locate people that can work
> on these units? Can any diesel truck mechanic fix these things?

Blue Bird coaches are a combination of relatively standard bus,
truck, and RV components. While a number of specific items are unique
to Wanderlodges, most of the major components can be adequately
serviced by heavy equipment mechanics. (For example, I had radiator
work done by a service that handles busses from a local transit agency.)

> When buying one are there certain things that we should focus the
> most attention on because they are the most expensive to fix?

Obviously, the engine and transmission are the most expensive
components. Radiators and other running gear are expensive as well.
Most of the trim and 'house' features are less costly to deal with.

> Is there a noticeable power difference in the late 70s non-turbo
> engine vs. the 80s engine with the extra power?.

Well, I have a somewhat newer model, so it's hard for me to comment
on this question. Obviously 210 HP in a 3208 NA unit is going to have
a lot less "spirit" than one of the later turbo models. However,
different sizes and weights also contribute to the overall
performance (or lack thereof) -- as power improved, the 'birds also
tended to be built heavier.

> What is the expected fuel mileage on of these units?.

Well ... if you have to ask....

You may well get many responses that range from reasonable to wildly
exaggerated. Most comments I've seen put the 70s--early 80s units at
7 to 10 mpg. The biggest difference depends on how fast you drive. My
'95 (with a 470 hp DD Series 60 engine) has delivered between 4.5 and
(nearly) 7 mpg. The 4.5 was "achieved" cruising at 70+ mph across
Wyoming with the generator and 3 roof ACs operating. The 6.95 mpg was
while traveling mostly 55-60 mph with no ACs operating (generator off).

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA

[Scott]

Mike, rebuttals?.. I still think SC BBQ is as good as TX Brisket! :>)

Rob&Sue, "OLD BB Wanderlodge" ...Ah...Is that the same as vintage...
In answer to your questions... no...sometimes depends on where you
are..Yes...Yes...Depends on how you drive...

I am really just kidding..The "Old Girls" can still dance. These
coaches have the amazing ability to stand up to the test of time. I
really think to understand the "old" philosophy is to understand how
forward thinking they were for their time..redundancy (?)of systems,
heavy duty chassis (most BIG truck places can handle that) Things
like, diamond plate on the roof, (so when Benny whant to invite his
buddies to the races) air suspension, and air brakes, LOTS OF CHROME.
Creature comforts like ice machine, valuables safe, most systems
monitored by guages on the dash, chassis heat, instant hot water,
three heat systems, couple of a/c systems etc. The list goes on and
on...

Will you drive one of the safest coaches on the road today even
though it is "OLD"??? YEP... Will you have unexpected repairs...YEP
(depends on YOUR maintenance routine) Do you have a resource to
answer the "hard to get answers" YES THIS FORUM..You get the message
here.

On the downside there are some major expense issues, tires, paint
finish, motor condition, genset etc. These issues should be "closely
evaluated" as they can be 20+ yrs old. That is not to say unreliable!
To the contrary..generally they are very reliable maybe just poorly
maintained. It depends on the previous OWNERS. And actually most
importantly finding some folks that know these coaches (HERE)

Ownership of a vintage coach is like anything else, there will be
some things that will not work, neither do I work as well as 20 yrs
ago... Will you show up in a campground and most "look at the old
camper" YES..Will you drive down the highway and see folks break ther
e neck to see the coach YES.. Will you drive in the safest coach on
the highway..YES..(BENNY WILL APPRECIATE THAT)

I WOULD OFFER THIS..find a coach that has been cared for, many times
they are traded, sold to a dealer (who knows even less than you do,
(hey you found this site) and the dealer will just "patch it to move
it" TAKE YOUR TIME..decide what you want, living space, speed,
etc..then ask this forum about the coach (as you have seen generally
somebody knows the coach)... THEN welllllll... JUMP IN ...

Remember, on this forum there are NO SILLY QUESTIONS.

Scott B
86FC35
SC (close to the Myrtle Beach Rally)

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> Bob and Sue James and Benny the dog,
>
> Welcome to the WanderlodgeForum! Hopefully you will receive plenty
of
> opinions here. I am so behind the times.... looks like I need to
get
> the cat an email address! LOL!
>
> I will vouch for Fred's coach if you are interested. It was great
> coach for us before Fred bought it.
>
> In reference to your specific questions and comments, my *opinions*
> are listed below behind your questions. I am sure others will
respond
> also.
>
> > My husband and I have decided that we would like to purchase an
old
> > Bluebird Wanderlodge (late 70s/80s).
> Excellent choice! You did not indicate whether you were leaning
> toward a FC or PT model. If you are not familiar with those
initials,
> you need to visit http://www.vintagebirds.com and peruse the history
section.
>
> > How many miles is too many miles? For example we see some at
50,000
> > miles and some at 140,000 is the latter too many?
> The corollary is how many miles are too few? A 20 year old coach
with
> 10,000 miles could have more problems than one with 150,000. One
that
> was never used may have dried out seals, belts, hoses, tires, etc.
> As long as proper maintenance was kept up is the *key*. 50,000
miles
> is nothing on these big diesels, barely broken in. Likewise 140k is
> no concern with proper maintenance. With bad maintenance and owner
> inattention to water temp and oil pressure, 25,000 could be a fatal
> problem.
>
> > Is it unreasonable to think we can purchase one from the late
> > 70s/early 80s and expect it to be reliable?
> No, it is not unreasonable to expect. However, once again
maintenance
> and upkeep are keys in that answer. Get a qualified person to
inspect
> any coach you look at if you are unfamiliar with RVs or diesels in
> general. We have members that can do that for you for a fee. Have
> the running gear checked over by a diesel mechanic. Have an oil
> analysis performed if you can, and check the antifreeze pH. Keep an
> emergency fund just in case since you are looking at 25-30 year old
> vehicles and things just plain wear out. On the other hand these
> Birds should still outlive most of their current owners, with proper
> maintenance.
>
> > If you were to break down is it hard to locate people that can
work
> > on these units? Can any diesel truck mechanic fix these things?
> Generally speaking, no, depending on very remote locations. FMCA
has
> an inexpensive emergency road service to take the worry out of
finding
> repair help. Most heavy diesel repair shops can work on these
things.
>
> > When buying one are there certain things that we should focus the
> > most attention on because they are the most expensive to fix?
> In my mind running gear maintenance is very important since diesels
> and transmissions are very expensive to replace. Most everything
else
> pales in comparison in terms of cost to repair/replace/upgrade.
>
> > Is there a noticeable power difference in the late 70s non-turbo
> > engine vs. the 80s engine with the extra power?.
> Oh yes. Remember the FC models had gas engines available until 1978
> and the 1977 model year offered 3208 CAT motors, normally aspirated
or
> turbo depending on year; the early 80 PTs have Detroit Diesel 6V or
> 8V92 engines, all turbo.
>
> > What is the expected fuel mileage on of these units?.
> Oh my, sensitive topic. Remember the sign over Bass Pro Shops?
> Welcome fishermen, hunters and other liars? LOL. MPG calculations
> can sometimes be a source of great debate. Remember the FC is much
> lighter than the PTs. Weight and speed have great impact on MPG.
The
> FCs will get better mileage (have heard 8-10mpg) than the PT (have
> personally experienced 5-7 - 8 on a very good day all downhill at
less
> than the speed limit). The WB models (1988 on) are even heavier and
> get about 5mpg uphill, downhill or on the flats.
>
> OK, that's my time for now. Rebuttals, disagreements and
corrections
> should begin anytime.
>
> Enjoy the forum.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, fred brown
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Mr and Mrs James I have a 1983 pt 40 in excelent condition
that
> will be available this spring/ summer. For more details email me at
my
> private address.
> > Fred Brown
> > .----- Original Message ----
> > From: bennyjamesthedog <bennyjamesthedog@>
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:07:13 AM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Experienced Help Please
> >
> > My husband and I have decided that we would like to purchase an
old
> > Bluebird Wanderlodge (late 70s/80s). They are very unique. We are
> > just starting to learn about them and intend to gather info over
the
> > summer to verify that we haven't lost our minds and then to
actually
> > make a purchase toward the end of the year.
> > As all of you appear to own one and love them, we thought that
> > perhaps you could guide us on what to look for based on your
> > experiences. We are total novices as it relates to these units so
> > any input would help.
> >
> > Examples of our questions are below:
> >
> > How many miles is too many miles? For example we see some at
50,000
> > miles and some at 140,000 is the latter too many?
> >
> > Is it unreasonable to think we can purchase one from the late
> > 70s/early 80s and expect it to be reliable?
> >
> > If you were to break down is it hard to locate people that can
work
> > on these units? Can any diesel truck mechanic fix these things?
> >
> > When buying one are there certain things that we should focus the
> > most attention on because they are the most expensive to fix?
> >
> > Is there a noticeable power difference in the late 70s non-turbo
> > engine vs. the 80s engine with the extra power?.
> >
> > What is the expected fuel mileage on of these units?.
> >
> > That's it for now. We greatly appreciate your input on any of
these
> > items. And we look forward to meeting up with you someday in our
> > new 'old' rig.
> >
> > Bob and Sue James and Benny the dog.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>