Coolant additive in diesel generaters?

[scoggins_jim]

Diesel engines require a coolant additive in the anti-freeze. I had a
Detroit 8V92 and now this Cummins 8.9. In both cases, and in my Ford
F350 Diesel, the instructions are clear about using an additive. My
previous coach had a Yanmar powered Kohler for the generator and this
coach has the Power Tech diesel generator.

I have never seen a cautionary note about being sure the generator
engines had the coolant additive. For the heck of it I put it in the
Yanmar cause I thought it made sense to do so. Further, I have a small
Kubota farm tractor with a relatively small engine (23 HP) and it's
manual had no reference to using an additive. I put it in cause I
thought it made sense to do so.

I think I understand the necessity behind using an additive so I think
the compression ratios of the diesel generators and the small farm
tractor would dictate their use.

Taking it one step further, although a gas engine does not have the
higher compression ratios that would dictate additive usage it seems
they would benefit nevertheless with a neutral PH in the coolant system.

Accordingly, what is the group wisdom on:
Q1. Should one put the coolant additive in the coolant for the diesel
generators.
Q2. Would their be some benefit to putting it in the coolant system of
a gas engine.

Yeah, I know, I'll call Powertech tomorrow but I wanted to know the
groupthink before I talked to them.

[Gary Miller]

Hi Jim,

The way I understand it, all water/antifreeze is corrosive at
operating temps in a deisel engine. Maintaining the proper pH is
essential to long life of the coolant system and engine components.
Additionally, around the extreme heat area at the top of the cylinder
walls, unconditioned coolant can boil and cause pinholes in the
cylinder wall. This damage will show up as glycol in the oil
samples, and should obviously be repaired ASAP before a costly
roadside breakdown occurs.

I use Caterpillar pH test strips and dip them in the coolant, then
match the color to the color chart on the bottle to determine how
much SCA (Supplemental Coolant Additive) to use. Long life
antifreeze has the SCA pre-mixed but I understand that all antifreeze
is subject to breakdown and needs to be checked regularly and added
to. Too much SCA is bad also.

In my '83, I also have a PowerTech deisel with the Kubota engine. I
have found PowerTech to be helpful, but they know little about the
engine. I would call a Kubota dealer with your question. I've been
told in the past by Kubota that whatever I do with the CAT engine
(fluid types and additives) will be fine for the Kubota, which seems
like just a blanket statement. I'd be interested in what you find
out. My thought was that the Kubota isn't working very hard as a
generator to cause extreme heat situations. Don't know, but I keep
the antifreeze fresh since there's relatively little in there
compared to the CAT, which would be costly to replenish regularly.

Regarding gasoline engines, I don't think they reach the extreme heat
levels in the cylinder walls as a diesel, but these days, maybe they
do. I would think a name-brand type antifreeze would be pre-mixed
with additives to handle the realm of a gasoline engine, but
everything breaks down with age, couldn't hurt to add to or refresh
the fluids.

Gary Miller
83 FC 33
Wauwatosa, WI

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "scoggins_jim"
<scoggins.j@a...> wrote:
> Diesel engines require a coolant additive in the anti-freeze. I had
a
> Detroit 8V92 and now this Cummins 8.9. In both cases, and in my Ford
> F350 Diesel, the instructions are clear about using an additive. My
> previous coach had a Yanmar powered Kohler for the generator and
this
> coach has the Power Tech diesel generator.
>
> I have never seen a cautionary note about being sure the generator
> engines had the coolant additive. For the heck of it I put it in the
> Yanmar cause I thought it made sense to do so. Further, I have a
small
> Kubota farm tractor with a relatively small engine (23 HP) and it's
> manual had no reference to using an additive. I put it in cause I
> thought it made sense to do so.
>
> I think I understand the necessity behind using an additive so I
think
> the compression ratios of the diesel generators and the small farm
> tractor would dictate their use.
>
> Taking it one step further, although a gas engine does not have the
> higher compression ratios that would dictate additive usage it seems
> they would benefit nevertheless with a neutral PH in the coolant
system.
>
> Accordingly, what is the group wisdom on:
> Q1. Should one put the coolant additive in the coolant for the
diesel
> generators.
> Q2. Would their be some benefit to putting it in the coolant system
of
> a gas engine.
>
> Yeah, I know, I'll call Powertech tomorrow but I wanted to know the
> groupthink before I talked to them.

[Mike Hohnstein]

PH level is relevant in all coolant systems. I have to thank Gary for reminding
me of the importance of checking it.
A good rule of thumb is to change out the coolant and recharge with fresh glycol
and distilled water every 24k miles. I know no one will do this but it's a nice
plan, and it would be good for the cooling system.
More over Randy Dupree mentioned a after market coolant filter apparatus he
uses, I will share what I find on that subject. My DT 466 had a coolant filter
and it is a good thing.
Mike Hohnstein
Germantown, WI
83FC35
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 9:31 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Coolant additive in diesel generaters?


Hi Jim,

The way I understand it, all water/antifreeze is corrosive at
operating temps in a deisel engine. Maintaining the proper pH is
essential to long life of the coolant system and engine components.
Additionally, around the extreme heat area at the top of the cylinder
walls, unconditioned coolant can boil and cause pinholes in the
cylinder wall. This damage will show up as glycol in the oil
samples, and should obviously be repaired ASAP before a costly
roadside breakdown occurs.

I use Caterpillar pH test strips and dip them in the coolant, then
match the color to the color chart on the bottle to determine how
much SCA (Supplemental Coolant Additive) to use. Long life
antifreeze has the SCA pre-mixed but I understand that all antifreeze
is subject to breakdown and needs to be checked regularly and added
to. Too much SCA is bad also.

In my '83, I also have a PowerTech deisel with the Kubota engine. I
have found PowerTech to be helpful, but they know little about the
engine. I would call a Kubota dealer with your question. I've been
told in the past by Kubota that whatever I do with the CAT engine
(fluid types and additives) will be fine for the Kubota, which seems
like just a blanket statement. I'd be interested in what you find
out. My thought was that the Kubota isn't working very hard as a
generator to cause extreme heat situations. Don't know, but I keep
the antifreeze fresh since there's relatively little in there
compared to the CAT, which would be costly to replenish regularly.

Regarding gasoline engines, I don't think they reach the extreme heat
levels in the cylinder walls as a diesel, but these days, maybe they
do. I would think a name-brand type antifreeze would be pre-mixed
with additives to handle the realm of a gasoline engine, but
everything breaks down with age, couldn't hurt to add to or refresh
the fluids.

Gary Miller
83 FC 33
Wauwatosa, WI

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "scoggins_jim"
<scoggins.j@a...> wrote:
> Diesel engines require a coolant additive in the anti-freeze. I had
a
> Detroit 8V92 and now this Cummins 8.9. In both cases, and in my Ford
> F350 Diesel, the instructions are clear about using an additive. My
> previous coach had a Yanmar powered Kohler for the generator and
this
> coach has the Power Tech diesel generator.
>
> I have never seen a cautionary note about being sure the generator
> engines had the coolant additive. For the heck of it I put it in the
> Yanmar cause I thought it made sense to do so. Further, I have a
small
> Kubota farm tractor with a relatively small engine (23 HP) and it's
> manual had no reference to using an additive. I put it in cause I
> thought it made sense to do so.
>
> I think I understand the necessity behind using an additive so I
think
> the compression ratios of the diesel generators and the small farm
> tractor would dictate their use.
>
> Taking it one step further, although a gas engine does not have the
> higher compression ratios that would dictate additive usage it seems
> they would benefit nevertheless with a neutral PH in the coolant
system.
>
> Accordingly, what is the group wisdom on:
> Q1. Should one put the coolant additive in the coolant for the
diesel
> generators.
> Q2. Would their be some benefit to putting it in the coolant system
of
> a gas engine.
>
> Yeah, I know, I'll call Powertech tomorrow but I wanted to know the
> groupthink before I talked to them.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

Gary one small point. Its not the heat in a diesel engine that is causing
the cavitation erosion of the cylinder liners, its the vibration (diesel
knock)and this problem can exist at any temperature. The important thing is
that you are doing all of the right things for your Cat diesel and
generator. Here is a good article that explains in more detail what you
have already suggested. http://www.bandgmachine.com/technical/august95.htm

One more thing. If you have antifreeze in your engine now but are not sure
what kind it is(and dont rely on the color), then do not add any coolant to
it. Drain it all out and put new coolant in and recored the kind and date
for later reference. Mixing coolants can cause some real potential problems.

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY
In the beautiful Mohawk Valley

At 02:31 PM 5/1/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>
>The way I understand it, all water/antifreeze is corrosive at
>operating temps in a deisel engine. Maintaining the proper pH is
>essential to long life of the coolant system and engine components.
>Additionally, around the extreme heat area at the top of the cylinder
>walls, unconditioned coolant can boil and cause pinholes in the
>cylinder wall. This damage will show up as glycol in the oil
>samples, and should obviously be repaired ASAP before a costly
>roadside breakdown occurs.
>
>I use Caterpillar pH test strips and dip them in the coolant, then
>match the color to the color chart on the bottle to determine how
>much SCA (Supplemental Coolant Additive) to use. Long life
>antifreeze has the SCA pre-mixed but I understand that all antifreeze
>is subject to breakdown and needs to be checked regularly and added
>to. Too much SCA is bad also.
>
>In my '83, I also have a PowerTech deisel with the Kubota engine. I
>have found PowerTech to be helpful, but they know little about the
>engine. I would call a Kubota dealer with your question. I've been
>told in the past by Kubota that whatever I do with the CAT engine
>(fluid types and additives) will be fine for the Kubota, which seems
>like just a blanket statement. I'd be interested in what you find
>out. My thought was that the Kubota isn't working very hard as a
>generator to cause extreme heat situations. Don't know, but I keep
>the antifreeze fresh since there's relatively little in there
>compared to the CAT, which would be costly to replenish regularly.
>
>Regarding gasoline engines, I don't think they reach the extreme heat
>levels in the cylinder walls as a diesel, but these days, maybe they
>do. I would think a name-brand type antifreeze would be pre-mixed
>with additives to handle the realm of a gasoline engine, but
>everything breaks down with age, couldn't hurt to add to or refresh
>the fluids.
>
>Gary Miller
>83 FC 33
>Wauwatosa, WI
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "scoggins_jim"
><scoggins.j@a...> wrote:
> > Diesel engines require a coolant additive in the anti-freeze. I had
>a
> > Detroit 8V92 and now this Cummins 8.9. In both cases, and in my Ford
> > F350 Diesel, the instructions are clear about using an additive. My
> > previous coach had a Yanmar powered Kohler for the generator and
>this
> > coach has the Power Tech diesel generator.
> >
> > I have never seen a cautionary note about being sure the generator
> > engines had the coolant additive. For the heck of it I put it in the
> > Yanmar cause I thought it made sense to do so. Further, I have a
>small
> > Kubota farm tractor with a relatively small engine (23 HP) and it's
> > manual had no reference to using an additive. I put it in cause I
> > thought it made sense to do so.
> >
> > I think I understand the necessity behind using an additive so I
>think
> > the compression ratios of the diesel generators and the small farm
> > tractor would dictate their use.
> >
> > Taking it one step further, although a gas engine does not have the
> > higher compression ratios that would dictate additive usage it seems
> > they would benefit nevertheless with a neutral PH in the coolant
>system.
> >
> > Accordingly, what is the group wisdom on:
> > Q1. Should one put the coolant additive in the coolant for the
>diesel
> > generators.
> > Q2. Would their be some benefit to putting it in the coolant system
>of
> > a gas engine.
> >
> > Yeah, I know, I'll call Powertech tomorrow but I wanted to know the
> > groupthink before I talked to them.
>
>
>
>
>
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[Tom Warner]

Most over the road truckers use controlled release coolant filters that
automatically release sufficent SCAs to keep the coolant at the right PH
etc. When using these filters there is no need to check using Penray or
other manufacturers test strips. I have been thinking of installing one of
these on my coach, its about 100 on my todo list.
http://www.baldwinfilter.com/products/bw5200.html

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY
In the beautiful Mohawk Valley


At 09:46 AM 5/1/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>PH level is relevant in all coolant systems. I have to thank Gary for
>reminding me of the importance of checking it.
>A good rule of thumb is to change out the coolant and recharge with fresh
>glycol and distilled water every 24k miles. I know no one will do this
>but it's a nice plan, and it would be good for the cooling system.
>More over Randy Dupree mentioned a after market coolant filter apparatus
>he uses, I will share what I find on that subject. My DT 466 had a
>coolant filter and it is a good thing.
>Mike Hohnstein
>Germantown, WI
>83FC35
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Miller
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 9:31 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Coolant additive in diesel generaters?
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> The way I understand it, all water/antifreeze is corrosive at
> operating temps in a deisel engine. Maintaining the proper pH is
> essential to long life of the coolant system and engine components.
> Additionally, around the extreme heat area at the top of the cylinder
> walls, unconditioned coolant can boil and cause pinholes in the
> cylinder wall. This damage will show up as glycol in the oil
> samples, and should obviously be repaired ASAP before a costly
> roadside breakdown occurs.
>
> I use Caterpillar pH test strips and dip them in the coolant, then
> match the color to the color chart on the bottle to determine how
> much SCA (Supplemental Coolant Additive) to use. Long life
> antifreeze has the SCA pre-mixed but I understand that all antifreeze
> is subject to breakdown and needs to be checked regularly and added
> to. Too much SCA is bad also.
>
> In my '83, I also have a PowerTech deisel with the Kubota engine. I
> have found PowerTech to be helpful, but they know little about the
> engine. I would call a Kubota dealer with your question. I've been
> told in the past by Kubota that whatever I do with the CAT engine
> (fluid types and additives) will be fine for the Kubota, which seems
> like just a blanket statement. I'd be interested in what you find
> out. My thought was that the Kubota isn't working very hard as a
> generator to cause extreme heat situations. Don't know, but I keep
> the antifreeze fresh since there's relatively little in there
> compared to the CAT, which would be costly to replenish regularly.
>
> Regarding gasoline engines, I don't think they reach the extreme heat
> levels in the cylinder walls as a diesel, but these days, maybe they
> do. I would think a name-brand type antifreeze would be pre-mixed
> with additives to handle the realm of a gasoline engine, but
> everything breaks down with age, couldn't hurt to add to or refresh
> the fluids.
>
> Gary Miller
> 83 FC 33
> Wauwatosa, WI
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "scoggins_jim"
> <scoggins.j@a...> wrote:
> > Diesel engines require a coolant additive in the anti-freeze. I had
> a
> > Detroit 8V92 and now this Cummins 8.9. In both cases, and in my Ford
> > F350 Diesel, the instructions are clear about using an additive. My
> > previous coach had a Yanmar powered Kohler for the generator and
> this
> > coach has the Power Tech diesel generator.
> >
> > I have never seen a cautionary note about being sure the generator
> > engines had the coolant additive. For the heck of it I put it in the
> > Yanmar cause I thought it made sense to do so. Further, I have a
> small
> > Kubota farm tractor with a relatively small engine (23 HP) and it's
> > manual had no reference to using an additive. I put it in cause I
> > thought it made sense to do so.
> >
> > I think I understand the necessity behind using an additive so I
> think
> > the compression ratios of the diesel generators and the small farm
> > tractor would dictate their use.
> >
> > Taking it one step further, although a gas engine does not have the
> > higher compression ratios that would dictate additive usage it seems
> > they would benefit nevertheless with a neutral PH in the coolant
> system.
> >
> > Accordingly, what is the group wisdom on:
> > Q1. Should one put the coolant additive in the coolant for the
> diesel
> > generators.
> > Q2. Would their be some benefit to putting it in the coolant system
> of
> > a gas engine.
> >
> > Yeah, I know, I'll call Powertech tomorrow but I wanted to know the
> > groupthink before I talked to them.
>
>
>
>
>
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[Tom Warner]

Good morning Ernie. You sure do need coolant additives for your 6V92 in
fact all Detroit diesels. This might take some of the mystery out of what
to do about it and its right from Detroit diesel.

http://tinyurl.com/9l7jo
Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center, NY
In the beautiful sunny Mohawk Valley




At 11:17 AM 5/1/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>what about my old 6v92? I have heard many stories on the subject of coolant,
>additives, etc. Kinda confusing. And I have close to 300,000 miles on my
>coach. Ernie-83PT40 in Texas- old but still runs and looks pretty darn good
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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