buyer beware

[Gary Miller]

Ohhh yes Robert,

I will be back.

Gary Miller
83 FC 33 - For Sale
Milwaukee area

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Britton"
wrote:
>
> > I've enjoyed owning it, I'm a Wanderlodge enthusiast, and
> > more. It's all positive here, just time to move in another
direction.
> >
> > >
> > Gary Miller
> > 83 FC 33
> > Mi8lwaukee area - For Sale
>
>
>
> MAN DOWN, WE'VE GOT A MAN DOWN!
>
> Been there, done that Gary.
> You'll go off and have your fun with your family doing other things
but
> you'll miss the Wanderlodge and it's life style to much, it's in
your
> blood, you'll be back..... I give it about four or five years!
>
> Good luck on your new adventures!
>
> Robert Britton
> 87FC
> Hollister, California
>

[pattypape]

Hi Gary,

Great post,
We miss you , I think you will return with a bigger bird
within two years.

Bill 88 Fc Michigan


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
wrote:
>
> While offering a warranty would be nice, I'm not a business
entity.
> My coach speaks for itself in quality and I don't feel it needs a
> warranty to nudge a buyer in the direction of making the purchase.
> I'm not a professional mechanic, just an enthusaist with time on my
> hands. There is no warranty.
>
> Besides, it's easy to drive these rigs the wrong way and knowing
that
> someone will cover the first major mess-up could be inviting a
> problem instead of preventing one. Kind of like when the DOT and
> NTSB studies in the 90's found that people were tending to drive
more
> recklessly in vehicles equipped with airbags because they
> felt 'safer' behind the wheel, thus negating the actual safety
> mechanism of an airbag (and anti-lock brakes, skid control,
etc...).
> Don't ask me to source these studies, it's been too long.
>
> For example, a turbo FC with the standard 4.89 rear end should
never
> be driven above 65 mph. It'll be over revving the engine. It'll
go
> there, quite easily. Many people confuse the governor with a rev-
> limiter and simply mat the pedal and point the coach down the road.
> It only takes one valve spring to stretch past it's limit and the
CAT
> will eat a valve. Seen it. These old speedometers and tachometers
> require adjustments for accuracy, I've seen that mistake too. Ever
> notice how many Wanderlodges are NOT on their original engine? One
> must take care of their Wanderlodge, it's not smart enough to take
> care of itself.
>
> Can anyone tell me the limitations on use of the Jacobs retarder in
> the 3rd and 4th positions? How 'bout the cool down time? Any
takers
> on the max speed and a good technique to manually downshift the
> Allison while climbing a hill to prevent lugging (4.89 rear end)?
> How 'bout for downshifting to help slow a steep descent and stay
out
> of the 3rd and 4th position on the retarder for extended periods
> (that's a hint for the first question, it's stated as 'short
periods
> of time'? So what's the maximum oil usage of the CAT? Along that
> line, about how long does it take before the oil dipstick will show
> an accurate reading? There's a lot of oil in there. Off the top
of
> your head, how do you check the transmission fluid level, engine
> running or shut down, hot or cold? Here's an essay question, what
> can you do if you're climbing a steep grade on a stunningly
beautiful
> narrow winding road, on a hot day and the engine alarm starts
buzzing
> with the light on, you guess that you're 3/4 the way to the top (a
> few miles to go) you take your eyes off the scenery, scan the
gauges,
> and see there's an overheat occurring (oh, and there's a logging
> truck and three cars behind you with no shoulder)? Extra credit,
> what temp is actually considered an overheat for the CAT? Extra,
> extra credit, what temp did the alarm come on?
>
> Nope, I'm not going to warranty a $200,000+ coach that I'm selling
> for under $40,000. If I was comfortable letting folks drive off
with
> this beast while financially covering their learning curve, I'd
start
> renting them out.
>
> Come to my home and spend some time with it and the documentation I
> offer combined with the touch and feel of quality workmanship, the
> depth of knowledge I posess, and the enjoyment I have, and the
normal
> anxieties will fade. Drive it down the road and the big grin you
> find yourself with after a few minutes melts away the concerns.
I've
> seen it. I've already had visitors just 'looking'.
>
> Keep in mind that at $38,500 this is by no means a new
Wanderlodge.
> There are always things to work on and maintenance to be done.
I'll
> go over all that in person with any potential buyer, and thus will
> begin the negotiations. I'll also let you stay as long as you like
> to learn about it, and answer any questions you have while owning
> it. I'll pit my Blue Box against anyone else's as far as depth of
> information available on this coach. So there's your warranty,
> arguably better than an actual monetary contract, I'd say, because
> we'll work together to insure you're comfortable with this coach,
and
> you can make the call.
>
> Gary Miller
> 83 FC 33 - For Sale
> Milwaukee area
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> wrote:
> >
> > Probably a nice bus and like your brother, probably a great
person.
> I
> > wonder if the words that create the confidence and fade the
> anxieties
> > in those few short hours are followed up by "No warranty express
> or
> > implied, as-is"
> >
> > I sold a 95 class 8 truck with a second 5,000 warranty. I was
> > confident in the condition and backed it up by agreeing to pay
for
> > the second 5,000. of repair on any single failure for the first 2
> > years. There is no reason anyone should believe anyone who ends
a
> > confidence disortation with a disclosure.
> > GregoryO'Connor
> > 94ptromolandCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank-you Mike for the positive assessment of my coach.
> > >
> > > John, I've only briefly scanned this thread but it appears as
if
> > > you're in a quandry as to the value of a restored FC vs.
> the 'deal'
> > > of a PT in original condition for the same price. You're also
> > > concerned with misrepresentations and proper documentation.
> > >
> > > What I would offer you is that to perform all the necessary
> > > rennovations on a complicated coach like a Wanderlodge requires
> an
> > > enormous amount of personal time. Even if not doing the actual
> > work,
> > > it requires time to ensure someone is doing it correctly.
These
> > > coaches were built to a very high standard, and shoddy
> workmanship
> > > simply won't do. Like wearing plaid with stripes, the clashing
> in
> > > workmanship and quality standards jumps right out at even a
> casual
> > > observer if it's not done properly. While they're not
difficult
> to
> > > work on, it's a bit more time consuming than most shops want to
> > deal
> > > with because of accessing the various mechanicals.
> > >
> > > What I have on the market (when Jeff finally gets around to
> > changing
> > > the price on his website for me) is a coach I absolutely
adore.
> I
> > > planned on using this coach for the next dozen years at least,
> and
> > > had thoughts of taking it on grandious excursions with my wife
> and
> > > boys every chance I could. Every time I worked on a system, I
> > > considered that I never wanted to worry about that system
again,
> so
> > I
> > > cut no corners. I took my time, I waited for the right parts,
I
> > > upgraded or changed things so the same failures wouldn't occur
> > again,
> > > and I documented everything so I would remember when I hit 50
> what
> > I
> > > had done when I was 38 on it.
> > >
> > > I marveled at the engineering of things, but also realized that
> > > better parts now exist. Where necessary, I changed things for
> the
> > > better. There are more things to do, there always will be.
But
> > the
> > > major items are done. The things that could nag at me on a hot
> day
> > > while climbing a mountain, the things that could ruin my
> vacation,
> > > they're done. I won't have any of that. Major breakdowns
aren't
> > > part of a family vacation.
> > >
> > > I don't have to sell my coach, but the reality is that my wife
> and
> > > kids want to vacation with our FAMILY friends, and those
friends
> > > don't have big, beautiful Wanderlodges, they rent cabins and
> condos
> > > together.
> > >
> > > So I would say my coach is a great deal. I've got every bit of
> mid
> > > 30's into it. Which makes my meticulous and careful labor,
> > hundreds
> > > of hours of it, free. I'm offsetting the labor with the fact
> that
> > I
> > > have enjoyed several family trips with it and those memories
are
> > > worth it.
> > >
> > > The whole thing was an experiment under the 'hindsight 85' rule
> > which
> > > states that at age 85, one should be able to look back and
laugh
> > > about things ventured, not regret having never tried. So I
> bought
> > > it. I labored on it, hoping to keep it forever, and fill it
with
> > > memories, but in the end it makes no sense to keep it if it
won't
> > be
> > > getting used.
> > >
> > > I think $38,500 is a steal considering the documented
meticulous
> > > upgrades and renovations in this coach. We'll see...
> > >
> > > I read this and other forums when I have a few moments and
there
> > are
> > > always folks who are exasperated by the effort to fix or
trouble
> > > shoot a problem. If you were to research my posts you'd find
> that
> > I
> > > rarely posted like that, if ever. I love a good challenge and
I
> > > enjoy the opportunity to disassemble something to make it work
> > > better. This coach has that philosophy poured all over it.
> > >
> > > If someone is looking for a good coach to get a hold of, I'd
say
> > this
> > > is the one for the following reasons. I don't suddenly need
> money,
> > > it's paid for. I didn't just have a major life change
requiring
> me
> > > to sell it, I'm not sick and tired of it, I'm not being told to
> get
> > > rid of it, I've enjoyed owning it, I'm a Wanderlodge
enthusiast,
> > and
> > > more. It's all positive here, just time to move in another
> > direction.
> > >
> > > I'm really just looking for the right guy to have a smooth
> > > transaction with. If you want to come see this coach, come on
> by.
> > > I'll set you up and leave you with the books until you call me
to
> > > come on back. Stay the night if you want to. I'm confident
that
> > in
> > > a few short hours, your anxieties will fade and you'll want to
> take
> > > her home.
> > >
> > > Gary Miller
> > > 83 FC 33
> > > Mi8lwaukee area - For Sale
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Leroy, Your comments seem logical to me. That means one of
two
> > > > things: You are correct or we are both deluding ourselves;
not
> > > > certain which. I guess I must be getting serious I put my
> > trailer
> > > up
> > > > on eBay to see what happens. I can afford to buy the bird and
> > sell
> > > > the trailer later but the wife has already ask me about were
I
> > > expect
> > > > to park it. I have a lot to learn but one thing I have
> concluded
> > it
> > > > pays to keep her happy. So we'll see what happens over the
next
> > > > couple weeks. Thanks again to all who have taken an interest
in
> > me
> > > > and my "issues" John Heckman
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A pre-owned H2 Hummer about 35K comes standard with GPS,
> moving
> > > map
> > > > display, DVD, leather seats, electronics inverter and room
for
> a
> > > > large tent. It will fit in most any campground. No need for
a
> > > toad.
> > > > Missing optional items include, bed, hot and cold running
> water,
> > in
> > > > motion Sat TV, kitchen, convection oven, bathroom and other
> > > important
> > > > amenities. Looks to me like 35K for a top quality FC is a
> steal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > > Niceville, FL
> > > > > On Panama City Beach-Folks in the tents are hot---forcast
> high92
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Take heart!! Gary Miller has an exceptional example in
your
> > > price
> > > > range. Go to http://www.millercoachworks.com FC33, ignore the sold
and
> > 47k
> > > > asking price, it's on the market for mid 30's and a real deal
> at
> > > that
> > > > figure.
> > > > > MH
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:32 PM
> > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike, That's the kind of information I need to hear. I
was
> > > > looking at
> > > > > some older NA coaches and it seemed to me that $30k might
> do
> > > it.
> > > > > Apparently not? I am just trying to gather together an
idea
> > of
> > > > what
> > > > > is involved. I was thinking that perhaps paying $20 or
> about
> > > that
> > > > and
> > > > > figuring another $10k might do it. I am not going to be
> able
> > to
> > > > > invest $60K. I just would not get my moneys worth for
what
> I
> > > > would
> > > > > be using the coach for. I am not looking for a 10 out of
> 10.
> > > But
> > > > I
> > > > > was thinking that for $30K a guy could have a very
> > presentable
> > > BB
> > > > > which was solid. If you are telling me you bought the
best
> > > you've
> > > > > seen and still needed to spend another $45k doing the
labor
> > > > yourself
> > > > > I pretty well better forget it. JEH
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I started out with a "fixer" for 15k. Rear bath FC.
> > > > > > I wuz lucky, it's the cleanest FC I've ever seen, and I
> > have
> > > > > inspected a few. Bought it on the internet from on line
> pics.
> > > > Blown
> > > > > engine. Figured I fix it up a little and flip it. It
turned
> > out
> > > > to
> > > > > be so nice, decided I never find a better one.
> > > > > > Now that I am putting the final touches on the charge
air
> > > > cooler
> > > > > install, not to mention the exterior restoration, the
> change
> > > over
> > > > to
> > > > > 24.5s the unending chassis electrical issues I'm getting
> real
> > > > close
> > > > > to $60k and not much of that is farmed out labor. I did
all
> > the
> > > > > heavy mechanical work and most of the inside repairs,
water
> > > > system,
> > > > > lighting, vents, etc.
> > > > > > Depends on how you choose to spend the money, most of
the
> > > good
> > > > > deals are when somebody dies. It pays to be a buzzard.
> > > > > > Cold but true.
> > > > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > > Germantown, WI
> > > > > > 83 FC 35rb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:48 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And again my position as a buyer. My first preference
> would
> > > be
> > > > a
> > > > > > completely "ready to go" older FC rear bath coach
needing
> > > > > nothing. At
> > > > > > a price which is "fair". And I have seen some likely
> > > prospects.
> > > > > > Coaches which have had leather interior and repaints
> which
> > > have
> > > > > > pushed the asking prices into the range of the pushers.
> See
> > > > > that's
> > > > > > the problem. I've fooled around with antique car
> > restorations
> > > > and
> > > > > > this is so similar. A restored vehicle is not likely to
> > sell
> > > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > cost of the restoration. I feel some sympathy for the
> > seller
> > > > when
> > > > > > you know what he has invested to get it right but as a
> > buyer
> > > > > paying
> > > > > > for his restoration just doesn't work either. So what's
a
> > > nice
> > > > > coach
> > > > > > like I am looking for really worth? Well, it's worth
> > exactly
> > > > the
> > > > > > price negotiated between the seller and the buyer and
> there
> > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > rub. There are a couple real nice newerFC buses on the
> Bill
> > > > Board
> > > > > > right now with prices from 50 to 60K. So are they in
> > > > competition
> > > > > with
> > > > > > the pushers (?) I can't say. And what does that tell
you
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > older FC's. One fellow has a 1975 listed for 30K. I e-
> > mailed
> > > > him
> > > > > > see what he comes back with. From what I have been able
> to
> > > > figure
> > > > > to
> > > > > > this point his bus would have to be a ready to go coach
> > plus
> > > > > some.
> > > > > > But on the other hand as a buyer I could see that a guy
> > could
> > > > > easily
> > > > > > spend $15k and then in a short time spend an additional
> > $15K
> > > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > > it right. Price is certainly not cost. Not to belabor a
> > > point.
> > > > If
> > > > > > you have something worth the money do the work required
> to
> > > > prove
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > I could see spending $30 for a really nicely restored
> older
> > > > coach
> > > > > but
> > > > > > it would have to be exactly what I want with the proof
> > there
> > > > of.
> > > > > So
> > > > > > I guess what I am saying is that I personally am not
> > looking
> > > > for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > fixer upper. I can do some repairs but frankly its not
my
> > > idea
> > > > of
> > > > > > fun. Certainly others would feel differently. JEH
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 5/4/07, davidkerryedwards wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hence, the market for older Wanderlodge's with some
> > > needed
> > > > > > repairs will
> > > > > > > > probably always be a little more healthy than for
> > > > refurbished
> > > > > > coaches.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kerry,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree to an extent. Personally, I think most people
> > would
> > > > > rather
> > > > > > > have a refurbished coach - I know I looked for one
that
> > was
> > > > > > advertised
> > > > > > > as not having any problems. The disconnect between
> buyer
> > > and
> > > > > seller
> > > > > > > comes in price: Most buyers aren't willing to pay a
> > premium
> > > > for
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In my search, I found that people were tending to
> > > > sell "average"
> > > > > > > coaches in a certain price range - what I
> > > considered "market
> > > > > price".
> > > > > > > Then there were the occasional "refurbished" coaches
> > where
> > > > folks
> > > > > > > wanted twenty grand above "market price". I wasn't
> going
> > to
> > > > pay
> > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > In fact, I wasn't going to pay "market price" for a
> coach
> > > > with
> > > > > a lot
> > > > > > > of problems, either.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As a buyer, here's how it worked for me: A good coach
> > with
> > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > wrong commands full market value, perhaps slightly
> more.
> > In
> > > > my
> > > > > > range I
> > > > > > > identified mid eighties PT-40s and the market value I
> > came
> > > to
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > about $50,000. Now, I wasn't going to pay full market
> > value
> > > > for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > coach with a lot of issues. Something that needed
major
> > > work
> > > > I
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > have paid $35k for, but sellers still thought they
> could
> > > get
> > > > > $50k.
> > > > > > On
> > > > > > > the flip side, many "perfect" coaches, folks were
> wanting
> > > > $80k.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When all was said and done I did find a very good
coach
> > > with
> > > > > almost
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > problems (few things here and there, but they all
have
> > > those)
> > > > > right
> > > > > > > near what I considered to be fair market value. This
> > tells
> > > me
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > those wanting $80k for their similar coaches are
high,
> as
> > > are
> > > > > those
> > > > > > > wanting $50k for something that needs $20k worth of
> work
> > to
> > > > > make it
> > > > > > > half as nice as mine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, there's my two cents worth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > > > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > > > > > > Tri-Cities, WA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

As a buyer, I, too, would expect a "warranty" would be tacked onto
the price, if one was offered -- especially on an older, used vehicle
(even a Wanderlodge). I also wouldn't expect a seller to be able to
warrant my use and handling of the vehicle. While my errors might
cause and expensive repair, it wouldn't be fair to expect a seller to
give a warranty for that -- although some might want to take
advantage of one if one was offered.

When the time comes for me to sell my coach -- it will be offered "as
is, no warranty expressed or implied." But I'll have documentation of
the care and effort I've gone to to maintain it.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Lockhart Texas



On May 6, 2007, at 10:39 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:

> <snip> I would never expect a warranty of any type on a
> vehicle of this type. <snip>
> I understand your point however. Long hours of sales talk "bragging
> up" the vehicle followed by the ubiquitous "no warranty expressed or
> implied" Does take a bit of the wind out of the "sails" pitch. John
>
>
>
>
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

I do not freekin' believe this. Because you did something, it should be
standard procedure????
Serious arrogance.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory OConnor
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:55 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware


Probably a nice bus and like your brother, probably a great person. I
wonder if the words that create the confidence and fade the anxieties
in those few short hours are followed up by "No warranty express or
implied, as-is"

I sold a 95 class 8 truck with a second 5,000 warranty. I was
confident in the condition and backed it up by agreeing to pay for
the second 5,000. of repair on any single failure for the first 2
years. There is no reason anyone should believe anyone who ends a
confidence disortation with a disclosure.
GregoryO'Connor
94ptromolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
wrote:
>
> Thank-you Mike for the positive assessment of my coach.
>
> John, I've only briefly scanned this thread but it appears as if
> you're in a quandry as to the value of a restored FC vs. the 'deal'
> of a PT in original condition for the same price. You're also
> concerned with misrepresentations and proper documentation.
>
> What I would offer you is that to perform all the necessary
> rennovations on a complicated coach like a Wanderlodge requires an
> enormous amount of personal time. Even if not doing the actual
work,
> it requires time to ensure someone is doing it correctly. These
> coaches were built to a very high standard, and shoddy workmanship
> simply won't do. Like wearing plaid with stripes, the clashing in
> workmanship and quality standards jumps right out at even a casual
> observer if it's not done properly. While they're not difficult to
> work on, it's a bit more time consuming than most shops want to
deal
> with because of accessing the various mechanicals.
>
> What I have on the market (when Jeff finally gets around to
changing
> the price on his website for me) is a coach I absolutely adore. I
> planned on using this coach for the next dozen years at least, and
> had thoughts of taking it on grandious excursions with my wife and
> boys every chance I could. Every time I worked on a system, I
> considered that I never wanted to worry about that system again, so
I
> cut no corners. I took my time, I waited for the right parts, I
> upgraded or changed things so the same failures wouldn't occur
again,
> and I documented everything so I would remember when I hit 50 what
I
> had done when I was 38 on it.
>
> I marveled at the engineering of things, but also realized that
> better parts now exist. Where necessary, I changed things for the
> better. There are more things to do, there always will be. But
the
> major items are done. The things that could nag at me on a hot day
> while climbing a mountain, the things that could ruin my vacation,
> they're done. I won't have any of that. Major breakdowns aren't
> part of a family vacation.
>
> I don't have to sell my coach, but the reality is that my wife and
> kids want to vacation with our FAMILY friends, and those friends
> don't have big, beautiful Wanderlodges, they rent cabins and condos
> together.
>
> So I would say my coach is a great deal. I've got every bit of mid
> 30's into it. Which makes my meticulous and careful labor,
hundreds
> of hours of it, free. I'm offsetting the labor with the fact that
I
> have enjoyed several family trips with it and those memories are
> worth it.
>
> The whole thing was an experiment under the 'hindsight 85' rule
which
> states that at age 85, one should be able to look back and laugh
> about things ventured, not regret having never tried. So I bought
> it. I labored on it, hoping to keep it forever, and fill it with
> memories, but in the end it makes no sense to keep it if it won't
be
> getting used.
>
> I think $38,500 is a steal considering the documented meticulous
> upgrades and renovations in this coach. We'll see...
>
> I read this and other forums when I have a few moments and there
are
> always folks who are exasperated by the effort to fix or trouble
> shoot a problem. If you were to research my posts you'd find that
I
> rarely posted like that, if ever. I love a good challenge and I
> enjoy the opportunity to disassemble something to make it work
> better. This coach has that philosophy poured all over it.
>
> If someone is looking for a good coach to get a hold of, I'd say
this
> is the one for the following reasons. I don't suddenly need money,
> it's paid for. I didn't just have a major life change requiring me
> to sell it, I'm not sick and tired of it, I'm not being told to get
> rid of it, I've enjoyed owning it, I'm a Wanderlodge enthusiast,
and
> more. It's all positive here, just time to move in another
direction.
>
> I'm really just looking for the right guy to have a smooth
> transaction with. If you want to come see this coach, come on by.
> I'll set you up and leave you with the books until you call me to
> come on back. Stay the night if you want to. I'm confident that
in
> a few short hours, your anxieties will fade and you'll want to take
> her home.
>
> Gary Miller
> 83 FC 33
> Mi8lwaukee area - For Sale
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> wrote:
> >
> > Leroy, Your comments seem logical to me. That means one of two
> > things: You are correct or we are both deluding ourselves; not
> > certain which. I guess I must be getting serious I put my
trailer
> up
> > on eBay to see what happens. I can afford to buy the bird and
sell
> > the trailer later but the wife has already ask me about were I
> expect
> > to park it. I have a lot to learn but one thing I have concluded
it
> > pays to keep her happy. So we'll see what happens over the next
> > couple weeks. Thanks again to all who have taken an interest in
me
> > and my "issues" John Heckman
> > >
> > >
> > > A pre-owned H2 Hummer about 35K comes standard with GPS, moving
> map
> > display, DVD, leather seats, electronics inverter and room for a
> > large tent. It will fit in most any campground. No need for a
> toad.
> > Missing optional items include, bed, hot and cold running water,
in
> > motion Sat TV, kitchen, convection oven, bathroom and other
> important
> > amenities. Looks to me like 35K for a top quality FC is a steal.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > Niceville, FL
> > > On Panama City Beach-Folks in the tents are hot---forcast high92
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > >
> > >
> > > Take heart!! Gary Miller has an exceptional example in your
> price
> > range. Go to http://www.millercoachworks.com FC33, ignore the sold and
47k
> > asking price, it's on the market for mid 30's and a real deal at
> that
> > figure.
> > > MH
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:32 PM
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > >
> > > Mike, That's the kind of information I need to hear. I was
> > looking at
> > > some older NA coaches and it seemed to me that $30k might do
> it.
> > > Apparently not? I am just trying to gather together an idea
of
> > what
> > > is involved. I was thinking that perhaps paying $20 or about
> that
> > and
> > > figuring another $10k might do it. I am not going to be able
to
> > > invest $60K. I just would not get my moneys worth for what I
> > would
> > > be using the coach for. I am not looking for a 10 out of 10.
> But
> > I
> > > was thinking that for $30K a guy could have a very
presentable
> BB
> > > which was solid. If you are telling me you bought the best
> you've
> > > seen and still needed to spend another $45k doing the labor
> > yourself
> > > I pretty well better forget it. JEH
> > > >
> > > > I started out with a "fixer" for 15k. Rear bath FC.
> > > > I wuz lucky, it's the cleanest FC I've ever seen, and I
have
> > > inspected a few. Bought it on the internet from on line pics.
> > Blown
> > > engine. Figured I fix it up a little and flip it. It turned
out
> > to
> > > be so nice, decided I never find a better one.
> > > > Now that I am putting the final touches on the charge air
> > cooler
> > > install, not to mention the exterior restoration, the change
> over
> > to
> > > 24.5s the unending chassis electrical issues I'm getting real
> > close
> > > to $60k and not much of that is farmed out labor. I did all
the
> > > heavy mechanical work and most of the inside repairs, water
> > system,
> > > lighting, vents, etc.
> > > > Depends on how you choose to spend the money, most of the
> good
> > > deals are when somebody dies. It pays to be a buzzard.
> > > > Cold but true.
> > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > Germantown, WI
> > > > 83 FC 35rb
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:48 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And again my position as a buyer. My first preference would
> be
> > a
> > > > completely "ready to go" older FC rear bath coach needing
> > > nothing. At
> > > > a price which is "fair". And I have seen some likely
> prospects.
> > > > Coaches which have had leather interior and repaints which
> have
> > > > pushed the asking prices into the range of the pushers. See
> > > that's
> > > > the problem. I've fooled around with antique car
restorations
> > and
> > > > this is so similar. A restored vehicle is not likely to
sell
> > for
> > > the
> > > > cost of the restoration. I feel some sympathy for the
seller
> > when
> > > > you know what he has invested to get it right but as a
buyer
> > > paying
> > > > for his restoration just doesn't work either. So what's a
> nice
> > > coach
> > > > like I am looking for really worth? Well, it's worth
exactly
> > the
> > > > price negotiated between the seller and the buyer and there
> is
> > > the
> > > > rub. There are a couple real nice newerFC buses on the Bill
> > Board
> > > > right now with prices from 50 to 60K. So are they in
> > competition
> > > with
> > > > the pushers (?) I can't say. And what does that tell you
> about
> > > the
> > > > older FC's. One fellow has a 1975 listed for 30K. I e-
mailed
> > him
> > > > see what he comes back with. From what I have been able to
> > figure
> > > to
> > > > this point his bus would have to be a ready to go coach
plus
> > > some.
> > > > But on the other hand as a buyer I could see that a guy
could
> > > easily
> > > > spend $15k and then in a short time spend an additional
$15K
> to
> > > get
> > > > it right. Price is certainly not cost. Not to belabor a
> point.
> > If
> > > > you have something worth the money do the work required to
> > prove
> > > it.
> > > > I could see spending $30 for a really nicely restored older
> > coach
> > > but
> > > > it would have to be exactly what I want with the proof
there
> > of.
> > > So
> > > > I guess what I am saying is that I personally am not
looking
> > for
> > > a
> > > > fixer upper. I can do some repairs but frankly its not my
> idea
> > of
> > > > fun. Certainly others would feel differently. JEH
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5/4/07, davidkerryedwards wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hence, the market for older Wanderlodge's with some
> needed
> > > > repairs will
> > > > > > probably always be a little more healthy than for
> > refurbished
> > > > coaches.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kerry,
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree to an extent. Personally, I think most people
would
> > > rather
> > > > > have a refurbished coach - I know I looked for one that
was
> > > > advertised
> > > > > as not having any problems. The disconnect between buyer
> and
> > > seller
> > > > > comes in price: Most buyers aren't willing to pay a
premium
> > for
> > > this
> > > > > work.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my search, I found that people were tending to
> > sell "average"
> > > > > coaches in a certain price range - what I
> considered "market
> > > price".
> > > > > Then there were the occasional "refurbished" coaches
where
> > folks
> > > > > wanted twenty grand above "market price". I wasn't going
to
> > pay
> > > > that.
> > > > > In fact, I wasn't going to pay "market price" for a coach
> > with
> > > a lot
> > > > > of problems, either.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a buyer, here's how it worked for me: A good coach
with
> > > nothing
> > > > > wrong commands full market value, perhaps slightly more.
In
> > my
> > > > range I
> > > > > identified mid eighties PT-40s and the market value I
came
> to
> > > was
> > > > > about $50,000. Now, I wasn't going to pay full market
value
> > for
> > > a
> > > > > coach with a lot of issues. Something that needed major
> work
> > I
> > > might
> > > > > have paid $35k for, but sellers still thought they could
> get
> > > $50k.
> > > > On
> > > > > the flip side, many "perfect" coaches, folks were wanting
> > $80k.
> > > > >
> > > > > When all was said and done I did find a very good coach
> with
> > > almost
> > > > no
> > > > > problems (few things here and there, but they all have
> those)
> > > right
> > > > > near what I considered to be fair market value. This
tells
> me
> > > that
> > > > > those wanting $80k for their similar coaches are high, as
> are
> > > those
> > > > > wanting $50k for something that needs $20k worth of work
to
> > > make it
> > > > > half as nice as mine.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, there's my two cents worth.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > > > > Tri-Cities, WA
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gregory OConnor]

When I read a Bus for sale description listing all the great
attributes and "Free Full Tank", I wonder what tank they proport full
when they end "sold as is"

Confidence is backing your claims up with bucks

Arrogance is preparing an 'new operator fault excuse' for the
possible failure of a sold product.

I am truly arrogant that people sign on to read opinions I post but
truly confident that they make better choices when many opinions are
posted.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomoland
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> I do not freekin' believe this. Because you did something, it
should be standard procedure????
> Serious arrogance.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gregory OConnor
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:55 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
>
>
> Probably a nice bus and like your brother, probably a great
person. I
> wonder if the words that create the confidence and fade the
anxieties
> in those few short hours are followed up by "No warranty express
or
> implied, as-is"
>
> I sold a 95 class 8 truck with a second 5,000 warranty. I was
> confident in the condition and backed it up by agreeing to pay
for
> the second 5,000. of repair on any single failure for the first 2
> years. There is no reason anyone should believe anyone who ends a
> confidence disortation with a disclosure.
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptromolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank-you Mike for the positive assessment of my coach.
> >
> > John, I've only briefly scanned this thread but it appears as
if
> > you're in a quandry as to the value of a restored FC vs.
the 'deal'
> > of a PT in original condition for the same price. You're also
> > concerned with misrepresentations and proper documentation.
> >
> > What I would offer you is that to perform all the necessary
> > rennovations on a complicated coach like a Wanderlodge requires
an
> > enormous amount of personal time. Even if not doing the actual
> work,
> > it requires time to ensure someone is doing it correctly. These
> > coaches were built to a very high standard, and shoddy
workmanship
> > simply won't do. Like wearing plaid with stripes, the clashing
in
> > workmanship and quality standards jumps right out at even a
casual
> > observer if it's not done properly. While they're not difficult
to
> > work on, it's a bit more time consuming than most shops want to
> deal
> > with because of accessing the various mechanicals.
> >
> > What I have on the market (when Jeff finally gets around to
> changing
> > the price on his website for me) is a coach I absolutely adore.
I
> > planned on using this coach for the next dozen years at least,
and
> > had thoughts of taking it on grandious excursions with my wife
and
> > boys every chance I could. Every time I worked on a system, I
> > considered that I never wanted to worry about that system
again, so
> I
> > cut no corners. I took my time, I waited for the right parts, I
> > upgraded or changed things so the same failures wouldn't occur
> again,
> > and I documented everything so I would remember when I hit 50
what
> I
> > had done when I was 38 on it.
> >
> > I marveled at the engineering of things, but also realized that
> > better parts now exist. Where necessary, I changed things for
the
> > better. There are more things to do, there always will be. But
> the
> > major items are done. The things that could nag at me on a hot
day
> > while climbing a mountain, the things that could ruin my
vacation,
> > they're done. I won't have any of that. Major breakdowns aren't
> > part of a family vacation.
> >
> > I don't have to sell my coach, but the reality is that my wife
and
> > kids want to vacation with our FAMILY friends, and those
friends
> > don't have big, beautiful Wanderlodges, they rent cabins and
condos
> > together.
> >
> > So I would say my coach is a great deal. I've got every bit of
mid
> > 30's into it. Which makes my meticulous and careful labor,
> hundreds
> > of hours of it, free. I'm offsetting the labor with the fact
that
> I
> > have enjoyed several family trips with it and those memories
are
> > worth it.
> >
> > The whole thing was an experiment under the 'hindsight 85' rule
> which
> > states that at age 85, one should be able to look back and
laugh
> > about things ventured, not regret having never tried. So I
bought
> > it. I labored on it, hoping to keep it forever, and fill it
with
> > memories, but in the end it makes no sense to keep it if it
won't
> be
> > getting used.
> >
> > I think $38,500 is a steal considering the documented
meticulous
> > upgrades and renovations in this coach. We'll see...
> >
> > I read this and other forums when I have a few moments and
there
> are
> > always folks who are exasperated by the effort to fix or
trouble
> > shoot a problem. If you were to research my posts you'd find
that
> I
> > rarely posted like that, if ever. I love a good challenge and I
> > enjoy the opportunity to disassemble something to make it work
> > better. This coach has that philosophy poured all over it.
> >
> > If someone is looking for a good coach to get a hold of, I'd
say
> this
> > is the one for the following reasons. I don't suddenly need
money,
> > it's paid for. I didn't just have a major life change requiring
me
> > to sell it, I'm not sick and tired of it, I'm not being told to
get
> > rid of it, I've enjoyed owning it, I'm a Wanderlodge
enthusiast,
> and
> > more. It's all positive here, just time to move in another
> direction.
> >
> > I'm really just looking for the right guy to have a smooth
> > transaction with. If you want to come see this coach, come on
by.
> > I'll set you up and leave you with the books until you call me
to
> > come on back. Stay the night if you want to. I'm confident that
> in
> > a few short hours, your anxieties will fade and you'll want to
take
> > her home.
> >
> > Gary Miller
> > 83 FC 33
> > Mi8lwaukee area - For Sale
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Leroy, Your comments seem logical to me. That means one of
two
> > > things: You are correct or we are both deluding ourselves;
not
> > > certain which. I guess I must be getting serious I put my
> trailer
> > up
> > > on eBay to see what happens. I can afford to buy the bird and
> sell
> > > the trailer later but the wife has already ask me about were
I
> > expect
> > > to park it. I have a lot to learn but one thing I have
concluded
> it
> > > pays to keep her happy. So we'll see what happens over the
next
> > > couple weeks. Thanks again to all who have taken an interest
in
> me
> > > and my "issues" John Heckman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A pre-owned H2 Hummer about 35K comes standard with GPS,
moving
> > map
> > > display, DVD, leather seats, electronics inverter and room
for a
> > > large tent. It will fit in most any campground. No need for a
> > toad.
> > > Missing optional items include, bed, hot and cold running
water,
> in
> > > motion Sat TV, kitchen, convection oven, bathroom and other
> > important
> > > amenities. Looks to me like 35K for a top quality FC is a
steal.
> > > >
> > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > Niceville, FL
> > > > On Panama City Beach-Folks in the tents are hot---forcast
high92
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:35 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Take heart!! Gary Miller has an exceptional example in your
> > price
> > > range. Go to http://www.millercoachworks.com FC33, ignore the sold
and
> 47k
> > > asking price, it's on the market for mid 30's and a real deal
at
> > that
> > > figure.
> > > > MH
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:32 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > >
> > > > Mike, That's the kind of information I need to hear. I was
> > > looking at
> > > > some older NA coaches and it seemed to me that $30k might
do
> > it.
> > > > Apparently not? I am just trying to gather together an idea
> of
> > > what
> > > > is involved. I was thinking that perhaps paying $20 or
about
> > that
> > > and
> > > > figuring another $10k might do it. I am not going to be
able
> to
> > > > invest $60K. I just would not get my moneys worth for what
I
> > > would
> > > > be using the coach for. I am not looking for a 10 out of
10.
> > But
> > > I
> > > > was thinking that for $30K a guy could have a very
> presentable
> > BB
> > > > which was solid. If you are telling me you bought the best
> > you've
> > > > seen and still needed to spend another $45k doing the labor
> > > yourself
> > > > I pretty well better forget it. JEH
> > > > >
> > > > > I started out with a "fixer" for 15k. Rear bath FC.
> > > > > I wuz lucky, it's the cleanest FC I've ever seen, and I
> have
> > > > inspected a few. Bought it on the internet from on line
pics.
> > > Blown
> > > > engine. Figured I fix it up a little and flip it. It turned
> out
> > > to
> > > > be so nice, decided I never find a better one.
> > > > > Now that I am putting the final touches on the charge air
> > > cooler
> > > > install, not to mention the exterior restoration, the
change
> > over
> > > to
> > > > 24.5s the unending chassis electrical issues I'm getting
real
> > > close
> > > > to $60k and not much of that is farmed out labor. I did all
> the
> > > > heavy mechanical work and most of the inside repairs, water
> > > system,
> > > > lighting, vents, etc.
> > > > > Depends on how you choose to spend the money, most of the
> > good
> > > > deals are when somebody dies. It pays to be a buzzard.
> > > > > Cold but true.
> > > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > Germantown, WI
> > > > > 83 FC 35rb
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:48 PM
> > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And again my position as a buyer. My first preference
would
> > be
> > > a
> > > > > completely "ready to go" older FC rear bath coach needing
> > > > nothing. At
> > > > > a price which is "fair". And I have seen some likely
> > prospects.
> > > > > Coaches which have had leather interior and repaints
which
> > have
> > > > > pushed the asking prices into the range of the pushers.
See
> > > > that's
> > > > > the problem. I've fooled around with antique car
> restorations
> > > and
> > > > > this is so similar. A restored vehicle is not likely to
> sell
> > > for
> > > > the
> > > > > cost of the restoration. I feel some sympathy for the
> seller
> > > when
> > > > > you know what he has invested to get it right but as a
> buyer
> > > > paying
> > > > > for his restoration just doesn't work either. So what's a
> > nice
> > > > coach
> > > > > like I am looking for really worth? Well, it's worth
> exactly
> > > the
> > > > > price negotiated between the seller and the buyer and
there
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > rub. There are a couple real nice newerFC buses on the
Bill
> > > Board
> > > > > right now with prices from 50 to 60K. So are they in
> > > competition
> > > > with
> > > > > the pushers (?) I can't say. And what does that tell you
> > about
> > > > the
> > > > > older FC's. One fellow has a 1975 listed for 30K. I e-
> mailed
> > > him
> > > > > see what he comes back with. From what I have been able
to
> > > figure
> > > > to
> > > > > this point his bus would have to be a ready to go coach
> plus
> > > > some.
> > > > > But on the other hand as a buyer I could see that a guy
> could
> > > > easily
> > > > > spend $15k and then in a short time spend an additional
> $15K
> > to
> > > > get
> > > > > it right. Price is certainly not cost. Not to belabor a
> > point.
> > > If
> > > > > you have something worth the money do the work required
to
> > > prove
> > > > it.
> > > > > I could see spending $30 for a really nicely restored
older
> > > coach
> > > > but
> > > > > it would have to be exactly what I want with the proof
> there
> > > of.
> > > > So
> > > > > I guess what I am saying is that I personally am not
> looking
> > > for
> > > > a
> > > > > fixer upper. I can do some repairs but frankly its not my
> > idea
> > > of
> > > > > fun. Certainly others would feel differently. JEH
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 5/4/07, davidkerryedwards wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hence, the market for older Wanderlodge's with some
> > needed
> > > > > repairs will
> > > > > > > probably always be a little more healthy than for
> > > refurbished
> > > > > coaches.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kerry,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree to an extent. Personally, I think most people
> would
> > > > rather
> > > > > > have a refurbished coach - I know I looked for one that
> was
> > > > > advertised
> > > > > > as not having any problems. The disconnect between
buyer
> > and
> > > > seller
> > > > > > comes in price: Most buyers aren't willing to pay a
> premium
> > > for
> > > > this
> > > > > > work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my search, I found that people were tending to
> > > sell "average"
> > > > > > coaches in a certain price range - what I
> > considered "market
> > > > price".
> > > > > > Then there were the occasional "refurbished" coaches
> where
> > > folks
> > > > > > wanted twenty grand above "market price". I wasn't
going
> to
> > > pay
> > > > > that.
> > > > > > In fact, I wasn't going to pay "market price" for a
coach
> > > with
> > > > a lot
> > > > > > of problems, either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As a buyer, here's how it worked for me: A good coach
> with
> > > > nothing
> > > > > > wrong commands full market value, perhaps slightly
more.
> In
> > > my
> > > > > range I
> > > > > > identified mid eighties PT-40s and the market value I
> came
> > to
> > > > was
> > > > > > about $50,000. Now, I wasn't going to pay full market
> value
> > > for
> > > > a
> > > > > > coach with a lot of issues. Something that needed major
> > work
> > > I
> > > > might
> > > > > > have paid $35k for, but sellers still thought they
could
> > get
> > > > $50k.
> > > > > On
> > > > > > the flip side, many "perfect" coaches, folks were
wanting
> > > $80k.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When all was said and done I did find a very good coach
> > with
> > > > almost
> > > > > no
> > > > > > problems (few things here and there, but they all have
> > those)
> > > > right
> > > > > > near what I considered to be fair market value. This
> tells
> > me
> > > > that
> > > > > > those wanting $80k for their similar coaches are high,
as
> > are
> > > > those
> > > > > > wanting $50k for something that needs $20k worth of
work
> to
> > > > make it
> > > > > > half as nice as mine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, there's my two cents worth.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > > > > > Tri-Cities, WA
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[mbulriss]

Greg,

It's up to each individual as to how to market their products.

Like your hypothesis, I was definitely comfortable in offering a
"warranty" coverage amount on Stagecoach when it was *first* offered
for sale. I negotiated a deal with Ralph to provide any needed
repairs up to a set amount. My warranty offer, my choice of trusted
repairs! I had no doubts in Stagecoach's ability to go cross country
at a moments notice. (I doubt the current owner has any doubts either
and Fred now has it for sale again so he can move on up....) Getting
home is a premium for me. Cosmetics can be easily changed, roadside
repairs are hassles.

However, I must tell you warranty offers are a waste of time in this
market and I subsequently dropped the warranty offer. Prospective
"buyers" only want to know "how much will you come down off the asking
price?", period. "How much you want for that Winnebago thingy?" is a
classic call that I hung up on. They compare quality products to
trash on eBay at bottom feeder prices (richly deserved in some cases -
you know, "minor fire in engine compartment" but nothing looks like
normal BB furnishings on the inside). My gut says Gary Miller's coach
is one of the top notch buys on the FC market right now and that he
will be there after the sale for questions, but he will be besieged
with "what's your bottom dollar?" questions regardless of the quality
differences in his rig versus a wholesale priced rig of dubious
heritage on a dealer's lot that knows nothing about Birds. Nature of
the market. Most buyers don't know what they are looking at to
differentiate quality versus money pits and compare all pricing to
eBay "norms". A few new prospective buyers on the forum are doing
the research, research, research they need to do to differentiate.
Hopefully, they will recognize an excellent buy when they see it and
jump on it, rather than seize the bottom priced money pit. The sweet
taste of the lowest price will become very bitter when the reality of
repairs set in. Pay me now or pay me later.

So while I agree with your 'put your money where your mouth is'
hypothesis, it is a waste of time and breath in the older used Bird
market IMO. Do your research, pick the best Bird you are comfortable
with, negotiate your deal and take you chances - even the best
maintained Bird can have a major trauma tomorrow, unknown to even the
best mechanic. Mechanical objects make no promises.

FWIW, YMMV, yadda, yadda......

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
> When I read a Bus for sale description listing all the great
> attributes and "Free Full Tank", I wonder what tank they proport full
> when they end "sold as is"
>
> Confidence is backing your claims up with bucks
>
> Arrogance is preparing an 'new operator fault excuse' for the
> possible failure of a sold product.
>
> I am truly arrogant that people sign on to read opinions I post but
> truly confident that they make better choices when many opinions are
> posted.
>
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptRomoland
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> >
> > I do not freekin' believe this. Because you did something, it
> should be standard procedure????
> > Serious arrogance.
> > MH
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gregory OConnor
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:55 AM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> >
> >
> > Probably a nice bus and like your brother, probably a great
> person. I
> > wonder if the words that create the confidence and fade the
> anxieties
> > in those few short hours are followed up by "No warranty express
> or
> > implied, as-is"
> >
> > I sold a 95 class 8 truck with a second 5,000 warranty. I was
> > confident in the condition and backed it up by agreeing to pay
> for
> > the second 5,000. of repair on any single failure for the first 2
> > years. There is no reason anyone should believe anyone who ends a
> > confidence disortation with a disclosure.
> > GregoryO'Connor
> > 94ptromolandCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank-you Mike for the positive assessment of my coach.
> > >
> > > John, I've only briefly scanned this thread but it appears as
> if
> > > you're in a quandry as to the value of a restored FC vs.
> the 'deal'
> > > of a PT in original condition for the same price. You're also
> > > concerned with misrepresentations and proper documentation.
> > >
> > > What I would offer you is that to perform all the necessary
> > > rennovations on a complicated coach like a Wanderlodge requires
> an
> > > enormous amount of personal time. Even if not doing the actual
> > work,
> > > it requires time to ensure someone is doing it correctly. These
> > > coaches were built to a very high standard, and shoddy
> workmanship
> > > simply won't do. Like wearing plaid with stripes, the clashing
> in
> > > workmanship and quality standards jumps right out at even a
> casual
> > > observer if it's not done properly. While they're not difficult
> to
> > > work on, it's a bit more time consuming than most shops want to
> > deal
> > > with because of accessing the various mechanicals.
> > >
> > > What I have on the market (when Jeff finally gets around to
> > changing
> > > the price on his website for me) is a coach I absolutely adore.
> I
> > > planned on using this coach for the next dozen years at least,
> and
> > > had thoughts of taking it on grandious excursions with my wife
> and
> > > boys every chance I could. Every time I worked on a system, I
> > > considered that I never wanted to worry about that system
> again, so
> > I
> > > cut no corners. I took my time, I waited for the right parts, I
> > > upgraded or changed things so the same failures wouldn't occur
> > again,
> > > and I documented everything so I would remember when I hit 50
> what
> > I
> > > had done when I was 38 on it.
> > >
> > > I marveled at the engineering of things, but also realized that
> > > better parts now exist. Where necessary, I changed things for
> the
> > > better. There are more things to do, there always will be. But
> > the
> > > major items are done. The things that could nag at me on a hot
> day
> > > while climbing a mountain, the things that could ruin my
> vacation,
> > > they're done. I won't have any of that. Major breakdowns aren't
> > > part of a family vacation.
> > >
> > > I don't have to sell my coach, but the reality is that my wife
> and
> > > kids want to vacation with our FAMILY friends, and those
> friends
> > > don't have big, beautiful Wanderlodges, they rent cabins and
> condos
> > > together.
> > >
> > > So I would say my coach is a great deal. I've got every bit of
> mid
> > > 30's into it. Which makes my meticulous and careful labor,
> > hundreds
> > > of hours of it, free. I'm offsetting the labor with the fact
> that
> > I
> > > have enjoyed several family trips with it and those memories
> are
> > > worth it.
> > >
> > > The whole thing was an experiment under the 'hindsight 85' rule
> > which
> > > states that at age 85, one should be able to look back and
> laugh
> > > about things ventured, not regret having never tried. So I
> bought
> > > it. I labored on it, hoping to keep it forever, and fill it
> with
> > > memories, but in the end it makes no sense to keep it if it
> won't
> > be
> > > getting used.
> > >
> > > I think $38,500 is a steal considering the documented
> meticulous
> > > upgrades and renovations in this coach. We'll see...
> > >
> > > I read this and other forums when I have a few moments and
> there
> > are
> > > always folks who are exasperated by the effort to fix or
> trouble
> > > shoot a problem. If you were to research my posts you'd find
> that
> > I
> > > rarely posted like that, if ever. I love a good challenge and I
> > > enjoy the opportunity to disassemble something to make it work
> > > better. This coach has that philosophy poured all over it.
> > >
> > > If someone is looking for a good coach to get a hold of, I'd
> say
> > this
> > > is the one for the following reasons. I don't suddenly need
> money,
> > > it's paid for. I didn't just have a major life change requiring
> me
> > > to sell it, I'm not sick and tired of it, I'm not being told to
> get
> > > rid of it, I've enjoyed owning it, I'm a Wanderlodge
> enthusiast,
> > and
> > > more. It's all positive here, just time to move in another
> > direction.
> > >
> > > I'm really just looking for the right guy to have a smooth
> > > transaction with. If you want to come see this coach, come on
> by.
> > > I'll set you up and leave you with the books until you call me
> to
> > > come on back. Stay the night if you want to. I'm confident that
> > in
> > > a few short hours, your anxieties will fade and you'll want to
> take
> > > her home.
> > >
> > > Gary Miller
> > > 83 FC 33
> > > Mi8lwaukee area - For Sale
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Leroy, Your comments seem logical to me. That means one of
> two
> > > > things: You are correct or we are both deluding ourselves;
> not
> > > > certain which. I guess I must be getting serious I put my
> > trailer
> > > up
> > > > on eBay to see what happens. I can afford to buy the bird and
> > sell
> > > > the trailer later but the wife has already ask me about were
> I
> > > expect
> > > > to park it. I have a lot to learn but one thing I have
> concluded
> > it
> > > > pays to keep her happy. So we'll see what happens over the
> next
> > > > couple weeks. Thanks again to all who have taken an interest
> in
> > me
> > > > and my "issues" John Heckman
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A pre-owned H2 Hummer about 35K comes standard with GPS,
> moving
> > > map
> > > > display, DVD, leather seats, electronics inverter and room
> for a
> > > > large tent. It will fit in most any campground. No need for a
> > > toad.
> > > > Missing optional items include, bed, hot and cold running
> water,
> > in
> > > > motion Sat TV, kitchen, convection oven, bathroom and other
> > > important
> > > > amenities. Looks to me like 35K for a top quality FC is a
> steal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > > Niceville, FL
> > > > > On Panama City Beach-Folks in the tents are hot---forcast
> high92
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Take heart!! Gary Miller has an exceptional example in your
> > > price
> > > > range. Go to http://www.millercoachworks.com FC33, ignore the sold
> and
> > 47k
> > > > asking price, it's on the market for mid 30's and a real deal
> at
> > > that
> > > > figure.
> > > > > MH
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:32 PM
> > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike, That's the kind of information I need to hear. I was
> > > > looking at
> > > > > some older NA coaches and it seemed to me that $30k might
> do
> > > it.
> > > > > Apparently not? I am just trying to gather together an idea
> > of
> > > > what
> > > > > is involved. I was thinking that perhaps paying $20 or
> about
> > > that
> > > > and
> > > > > figuring another $10k might do it. I am not going to be
> able
> > to
> > > > > invest $60K. I just would not get my moneys worth for what
> I
> > > > would
> > > > > be using the coach for. I am not looking for a 10 out of
> 10.
> > > But
> > > > I
> > > > > was thinking that for $30K a guy could have a very
> > presentable
> > > BB
> > > > > which was solid. If you are telling me you bought the best
> > > you've
> > > > > seen and still needed to spend another $45k doing the labor
> > > > yourself
> > > > > I pretty well better forget it. JEH
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I started out with a "fixer" for 15k. Rear bath FC.
> > > > > > I wuz lucky, it's the cleanest FC I've ever seen, and I
> > have
> > > > > inspected a few. Bought it on the internet from on line
> pics.
> > > > Blown
> > > > > engine. Figured I fix it up a little and flip it. It turned
> > out
> > > > to
> > > > > be so nice, decided I never find a better one.
> > > > > > Now that I am putting the final touches on the charge air
> > > > cooler
> > > > > install, not to mention the exterior restoration, the
> change
> > > over
> > > > to
> > > > > 24.5s the unending chassis electrical issues I'm getting
> real
> > > > close
> > > > > to $60k and not much of that is farmed out labor. I did all
> > the
> > > > > heavy mechanical work and most of the inside repairs, water
> > > > system,
> > > > > lighting, vents, etc.
> > > > > > Depends on how you choose to spend the money, most of the
> > > good
> > > > > deals are when somebody dies. It pays to be a buzzard.
> > > > > > Cold but true.
> > > > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > > Germantown, WI
> > > > > > 83 FC 35rb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:48 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And again my position as a buyer. My first preference
> would
> > > be
> > > > a
> > > > > > completely "ready to go" older FC rear bath coach needing
> > > > > nothing. At
> > > > > > a price which is "fair". And I have seen some likely
> > > prospects.
> > > > > > Coaches which have had leather interior and repaints
> which
> > > have
> > > > > > pushed the asking prices into the range of the pushers.
> See
> > > > > that's
> > > > > > the problem. I've fooled around with antique car
> > restorations
> > > > and
> > > > > > this is so similar. A restored vehicle is not likely to
> > sell
> > > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > cost of the restoration. I feel some sympathy for the
> > seller
> > > > when
> > > > > > you know what he has invested to get it right but as a
> > buyer
> > > > > paying
> > > > > > for his restoration just doesn't work either. So what's a
> > > nice
> > > > > coach
> > > > > > like I am looking for really worth? Well, it's worth
> > exactly
> > > > the
> > > > > > price negotiated between the seller and the buyer and
> there
> > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > rub. There are a couple real nice newerFC buses on the
> Bill
> > > > Board
> > > > > > right now with prices from 50 to 60K. So are they in
> > > > competition
> > > > > with
> > > > > > the pushers (?) I can't say. And what does that tell you
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > older FC's. One fellow has a 1975 listed for 30K. I e-
> > mailed
> > > > him
> > > > > > see what he comes back with. From what I have been able
> to
> > > > figure
> > > > > to
> > > > > > this point his bus would have to be a ready to go coach
> > plus
> > > > > some.
> > > > > > But on the other hand as a buyer I could see that a guy
> > could
> > > > > easily
> > > > > > spend $15k and then in a short time spend an additional
> > $15K
> > > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > > it right. Price is certainly not cost. Not to belabor a
> > > point.
> > > > If
> > > > > > you have something worth the money do the work required
> to
> > > > prove
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > I could see spending $30 for a really nicely restored
> older
> > > > coach
> > > > > but
> > > > > > it would have to be exactly what I want with the proof
> > there
> > > > of.
> > > > > So
> > > > > > I guess what I am saying is that I personally am not
> > looking
> > > > for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > fixer upper. I can do some repairs but frankly its not my
> > > idea
> > > > of
> > > > > > fun. Certainly others would feel differently. JEH
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 5/4/07, davidkerryedwards wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hence, the market for older Wanderlodge's with some
> > > needed
> > > > > > repairs will
> > > > > > > > probably always be a little more healthy than for
> > > > refurbished
> > > > > > coaches.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kerry,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree to an extent. Personally, I think most people
> > would
> > > > > rather
> > > > > > > have a refurbished coach - I know I looked for one that
> > was
> > > > > > advertised
> > > > > > > as not having any problems. The disconnect between
> buyer
> > > and
> > > > > seller
> > > > > > > comes in price: Most buyers aren't willing to pay a
> > premium
> > > > for
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In my search, I found that people were tending to
> > > > sell "average"
> > > > > > > coaches in a certain price range - what I
> > > considered "market
> > > > > price".
> > > > > > > Then there were the occasional "refurbished" coaches
> > where
> > > > folks
> > > > > > > wanted twenty grand above "market price". I wasn't
> going
> > to
> > > > pay
> > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > In fact, I wasn't going to pay "market price" for a
> coach
> > > > with
> > > > > a lot
> > > > > > > of problems, either.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As a buyer, here's how it worked for me: A good coach
> > with
> > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > wrong commands full market value, perhaps slightly
> more.
> > In
> > > > my
> > > > > > range I
> > > > > > > identified mid eighties PT-40s and the market value I
> > came
> > > to
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > about $50,000. Now, I wasn't going to pay full market
> > value
> > > > for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > coach with a lot of issues. Something that needed major
> > > work
> > > > I
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > have paid $35k for, but sellers still thought they
> could
> > > get
> > > > > $50k.
> > > > > > On
> > > > > > > the flip side, many "perfect" coaches, folks were
> wanting
> > > > $80k.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When all was said and done I did find a very good coach
> > > with
> > > > > almost
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > problems (few things here and there, but they all have
> > > those)
> > > > > right
> > > > > > > near what I considered to be fair market value. This
> > tells
> > > me
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > those wanting $80k for their similar coaches are high,
> as
> > > are
> > > > > those
> > > > > > > wanting $50k for something that needs $20k worth of
> work
> > to
> > > > > make it
> > > > > > > half as nice as mine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, there's my two cents worth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > > > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > > > > > > Tri-Cities, WA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---Mike said it ALL!...can't we move on now......new subject......
Regards,
Hank Hannigan...still chillin in Vegas
90SP36









In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> It's up to each individual as to how to market their products.
>
> Like your hypothesis, I was definitely comfortable in offering a
> "warranty" coverage amount on Stagecoach when it was *first* offered
> for sale. I negotiated a deal with Ralph to provide any needed
> repairs up to a set amount. My warranty offer, my choice of trusted
> repairs! I had no doubts in Stagecoach's ability to go cross
country
> at a moments notice. (I doubt the current owner has any doubts
either
> and Fred now has it for sale again so he can move on up....)
Getting
> home is a premium for me. Cosmetics can be easily changed, roadside
> repairs are hassles.
>
> However, I must tell you warranty offers are a waste of time in this
> market and I subsequently dropped the warranty offer. Prospective
> "buyers" only want to know "how much will you come down off the
asking
> price?", period. "How much you want for that Winnebago thingy?" is
a
> classic call that I hung up on. They compare quality products to
> trash on eBay at bottom feeder prices (richly deserved in some
cases -
> you know, "minor fire in engine compartment" but nothing looks like
> normal BB furnishings on the inside). My gut says Gary Miller's
coach
> is one of the top notch buys on the FC market right now and that he
> will be there after the sale for questions, but he will be besieged
> with "what's your bottom dollar?" questions regardless of the
quality
> differences in his rig versus a wholesale priced rig of dubious
> heritage on a dealer's lot that knows nothing about Birds. Nature
of
> the market. Most buyers don't know what they are looking at to
> differentiate quality versus money pits and compare all pricing to
> eBay "norms". A few new prospective buyers on the forum are doing
> the research, research, research they need to do to differentiate.
> Hopefully, they will recognize an excellent buy when they see it and
> jump on it, rather than seize the bottom priced money pit. The
sweet
> taste of the lowest price will become very bitter when the reality
of
> repairs set in. Pay me now or pay me later.
>
> So while I agree with your 'put your money where your mouth is'
> hypothesis, it is a waste of time and breath in the older used Bird
> market IMO. Do your research, pick the best Bird you are
comfortable
> with, negotiate your deal and take you chances - even the best
> maintained Bird can have a major trauma tomorrow, unknown to even
the
> best mechanic. Mechanical objects make no promises.
>
> FWIW, YMMV, yadda, yadda......
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> wrote:
> >
> > When I read a Bus for sale description listing all the great
> > attributes and "Free Full Tank", I wonder what tank they proport
full
> > when they end "sold as is"
> >
> > Confidence is backing your claims up with bucks
> >
> > Arrogance is preparing an 'new operator fault excuse' for the
> > possible failure of a sold product.
> >
> > I am truly arrogant that people sign on to read opinions I post
but
> > truly confident that they make better choices when many opinions
are
> > posted.
> >
> > GregoryO'Connor
> > 94ptRomoland
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I do not freekin' believe this. Because you did something, it
> > should be standard procedure????
> > > Serious arrogance.
> > > MH
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Gregory OConnor
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:55 AM
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > >
> > >
> > > Probably a nice bus and like your brother, probably a great
> > person. I
> > > wonder if the words that create the confidence and fade the
> > anxieties
> > > in those few short hours are followed up by "No warranty
express
> > or
> > > implied, as-is"
> > >
> > > I sold a 95 class 8 truck with a second 5,000 warranty. I was
> > > confident in the condition and backed it up by agreeing to
pay
> > for
> > > the second 5,000. of repair on any single failure for the
first 2
> > > years. There is no reason anyone should believe anyone who
ends a
> > > confidence disortation with a disclosure.
> > > GregoryO'Connor
> > > 94ptromolandCa
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thank-you Mike for the positive assessment of my coach.
> > > >
> > > > John, I've only briefly scanned this thread but it appears
as
> > if
> > > > you're in a quandry as to the value of a restored FC vs.
> > the 'deal'
> > > > of a PT in original condition for the same price. You're
also
> > > > concerned with misrepresentations and proper documentation.
> > > >
> > > > What I would offer you is that to perform all the necessary
> > > > rennovations on a complicated coach like a Wanderlodge
requires
> > an
> > > > enormous amount of personal time. Even if not doing the
actual
> > > work,
> > > > it requires time to ensure someone is doing it correctly.
These
> > > > coaches were built to a very high standard, and shoddy
> > workmanship
> > > > simply won't do. Like wearing plaid with stripes, the
clashing
> > in
> > > > workmanship and quality standards jumps right out at even a
> > casual
> > > > observer if it's not done properly. While they're not
difficult
> > to
> > > > work on, it's a bit more time consuming than most shops
want to
> > > deal
> > > > with because of accessing the various mechanicals.
> > > >
> > > > What I have on the market (when Jeff finally gets around to
> > > changing
> > > > the price on his website for me) is a coach I absolutely
adore.
> > I
> > > > planned on using this coach for the next dozen years at
least,
> > and
> > > > had thoughts of taking it on grandious excursions with my
wife
> > and
> > > > boys every chance I could. Every time I worked on a system,
I
> > > > considered that I never wanted to worry about that system
> > again, so
> > > I
> > > > cut no corners. I took my time, I waited for the right
parts, I
> > > > upgraded or changed things so the same failures wouldn't
occur
> > > again,
> > > > and I documented everything so I would remember when I hit
50
> > what
> > > I
> > > > had done when I was 38 on it.
> > > >
> > > > I marveled at the engineering of things, but also realized
that
> > > > better parts now exist. Where necessary, I changed things
for
> > the
> > > > better. There are more things to do, there always will be.
But
> > > the
> > > > major items are done. The things that could nag at me on a
hot
> > day
> > > > while climbing a mountain, the things that could ruin my
> > vacation,
> > > > they're done. I won't have any of that. Major breakdowns
aren't
> > > > part of a family vacation.
> > > >
> > > > I don't have to sell my coach, but the reality is that my
wife
> > and
> > > > kids want to vacation with our FAMILY friends, and those
> > friends
> > > > don't have big, beautiful Wanderlodges, they rent cabins
and
> > condos
> > > > together.
> > > >
> > > > So I would say my coach is a great deal. I've got every bit
of
> > mid
> > > > 30's into it. Which makes my meticulous and careful labor,
> > > hundreds
> > > > of hours of it, free. I'm offsetting the labor with the
fact
> > that
> > > I
> > > > have enjoyed several family trips with it and those
memories
> > are
> > > > worth it.
> > > >
> > > > The whole thing was an experiment under the 'hindsight 85'
rule
> > > which
> > > > states that at age 85, one should be able to look back and
> > laugh
> > > > about things ventured, not regret having never tried. So I
> > bought
> > > > it. I labored on it, hoping to keep it forever, and fill it
> > with
> > > > memories, but in the end it makes no sense to keep it if it
> > won't
> > > be
> > > > getting used.
> > > >
> > > > I think $38,500 is a steal considering the documented
> > meticulous
> > > > upgrades and renovations in this coach. We'll see...
> > > >
> > > > I read this and other forums when I have a few moments and
> > there
> > > are
> > > > always folks who are exasperated by the effort to fix or
> > trouble
> > > > shoot a problem. If you were to research my posts you'd
find
> > that
> > > I
> > > > rarely posted like that, if ever. I love a good challenge
and I
> > > > enjoy the opportunity to disassemble something to make it
work
> > > > better. This coach has that philosophy poured all over it.
> > > >
> > > > If someone is looking for a good coach to get a hold of,
I'd
> > say
> > > this
> > > > is the one for the following reasons. I don't suddenly need
> > money,
> > > > it's paid for. I didn't just have a major life change
requiring
> > me
> > > > to sell it, I'm not sick and tired of it, I'm not being
told to
> > get
> > > > rid of it, I've enjoyed owning it, I'm a Wanderlodge
> > enthusiast,
> > > and
> > > > more. It's all positive here, just time to move in another
> > > direction.
> > > >
> > > > I'm really just looking for the right guy to have a smooth
> > > > transaction with. If you want to come see this coach, come
on
> > by.
> > > > I'll set you up and leave you with the books until you call
me
> > to
> > > > come on back. Stay the night if you want to. I'm confident
that
> > > in
> > > > a few short hours, your anxieties will fade and you'll want
to
> > take
> > > > her home.
> > > >
> > > > Gary Miller
> > > > 83 FC 33
> > > > Mi8lwaukee area - For Sale
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Leroy, Your comments seem logical to me. That means one
of
> > two
> > > > > things: You are correct or we are both deluding
ourselves;
> > not
> > > > > certain which. I guess I must be getting serious I put my
> > > trailer
> > > > up
> > > > > on eBay to see what happens. I can afford to buy the bird
and
> > > sell
> > > > > the trailer later but the wife has already ask me about
were
> > I
> > > > expect
> > > > > to park it. I have a lot to learn but one thing I have
> > concluded
> > > it
> > > > > pays to keep her happy. So we'll see what happens over
the
> > next
> > > > > couple weeks. Thanks again to all who have taken an
interest
> > in
> > > me
> > > > > and my "issues" John Heckman
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A pre-owned H2 Hummer about 35K comes standard with
GPS,
> > moving
> > > > map
> > > > > display, DVD, leather seats, electronics inverter and
room
> > for a
> > > > > large tent. It will fit in most any campground. No need
for a
> > > > toad.
> > > > > Missing optional items include, bed, hot and cold running
> > water,
> > > in
> > > > > motion Sat TV, kitchen, convection oven, bathroom and
other
> > > > important
> > > > > amenities. Looks to me like 35K for a top quality FC is a
> > steal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > > > Niceville, FL
> > > > > > On Panama City Beach-Folks in the tents are hot---
forcast
> > high92
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:35 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Take heart!! Gary Miller has an exceptional example in
your
> > > > price
> > > > > range. Go to http://www.millercoachworks.com FC33, ignore the
sold
> > and
> > > 47k
> > > > > asking price, it's on the market for mid 30's and a real
deal
> > at
> > > > that
> > > > > figure.
> > > > > > MH
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:32 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike, That's the kind of information I need to hear. I
was
> > > > > looking at
> > > > > > some older NA coaches and it seemed to me that $30k
might
> > do
> > > > it.
> > > > > > Apparently not? I am just trying to gather together an
idea
> > > of
> > > > > what
> > > > > > is involved. I was thinking that perhaps paying $20 or
> > about
> > > > that
> > > > > and
> > > > > > figuring another $10k might do it. I am not going to be
> > able
> > > to
> > > > > > invest $60K. I just would not get my moneys worth for
what
> > I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > be using the coach for. I am not looking for a 10 out
of
> > 10.
> > > > But
> > > > > I
> > > > > > was thinking that for $30K a guy could have a very
> > > presentable
> > > > BB
> > > > > > which was solid. If you are telling me you bought the
best
> > > > you've
> > > > > > seen and still needed to spend another $45k doing the
labor
> > > > > yourself
> > > > > > I pretty well better forget it. JEH
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I started out with a "fixer" for 15k. Rear bath FC.
> > > > > > > I wuz lucky, it's the cleanest FC I've ever seen, and
I
> > > have
> > > > > > inspected a few. Bought it on the internet from on line
> > pics.
> > > > > Blown
> > > > > > engine. Figured I fix it up a little and flip it. It
turned
> > > out
> > > > > to
> > > > > > be so nice, decided I never find a better one.
> > > > > > > Now that I am putting the final touches on the charge
air
> > > > > cooler
> > > > > > install, not to mention the exterior restoration, the
> > change
> > > > over
> > > > > to
> > > > > > 24.5s the unending chassis electrical issues I'm
getting
> > real
> > > > > close
> > > > > > to $60k and not much of that is farmed out labor. I did
all
> > > the
> > > > > > heavy mechanical work and most of the inside repairs,
water
> > > > > system,
> > > > > > lighting, vents, etc.
> > > > > > > Depends on how you choose to spend the money, most of
the
> > > > good
> > > > > > deals are when somebody dies. It pays to be a buzzard.
> > > > > > > Cold but true.
> > > > > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > > > Germantown, WI
> > > > > > > 83 FC 35rb
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:48 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And again my position as a buyer. My first preference
> > would
> > > > be
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > completely "ready to go" older FC rear bath coach
needing
> > > > > > nothing. At
> > > > > > > a price which is "fair". And I have seen some likely
> > > > prospects.
> > > > > > > Coaches which have had leather interior and repaints
> > which
> > > > have
> > > > > > > pushed the asking prices into the range of the
pushers.
> > See
> > > > > > that's
> > > > > > > the problem. I've fooled around with antique car
> > > restorations
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > this is so similar. A restored vehicle is not likely
to
> > > sell
> > > > > for
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > cost of the restoration. I feel some sympathy for the
> > > seller
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > you know what he has invested to get it right but as
a
> > > buyer
> > > > > > paying
> > > > > > > for his restoration just doesn't work either. So
what's a
> > > > nice
> > > > > > coach
> > > > > > > like I am looking for really worth? Well, it's worth
> > > exactly
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > price negotiated between the seller and the buyer and
> > there
> > > > is
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > rub. There are a couple real nice newerFC buses on
the
> > Bill
> > > > > Board
> > > > > > > right now with prices from 50 to 60K. So are they in
> > > > > competition
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > the pushers (?) I can't say. And what does that tell
you
> > > > about
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > older FC's. One fellow has a 1975 listed for 30K. I e-
> > > mailed
> > > > > him
> > > > > > > see what he comes back with. From what I have been
able
> > to
> > > > > figure
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > this point his bus would have to be a ready to go
coach
> > > plus
> > > > > > some.
> > > > > > > But on the other hand as a buyer I could see that a
guy
> > > could
> > > > > > easily
> > > > > > > spend $15k and then in a short time spend an
additional
> > > $15K
> > > > to
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > it right. Price is certainly not cost. Not to belabor
a
> > > > point.
> > > > > If
> > > > > > > you have something worth the money do the work
required
> > to
> > > > > prove
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > I could see spending $30 for a really nicely restored
> > older
> > > > > coach
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > it would have to be exactly what I want with the
proof
> > > there
> > > > > of.
> > > > > > So
> > > > > > > I guess what I am saying is that I personally am not
> > > looking
> > > > > for
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > fixer upper. I can do some repairs but frankly its
not my
> > > > idea
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > fun. Certainly others would feel differently. JEH
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 5/4/07, davidkerryedwards wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hence, the market for older Wanderlodge's with
some
> > > > needed
> > > > > > > repairs will
> > > > > > > > > probably always be a little more healthy than for
> > > > > refurbished
> > > > > > > coaches.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kerry,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree to an extent. Personally, I think most
people
> > > would
> > > > > > rather
> > > > > > > > have a refurbished coach - I know I looked for one
that
> > > was
> > > > > > > advertised
> > > > > > > > as not having any problems. The disconnect between
> > buyer
> > > > and
> > > > > > seller
> > > > > > > > comes in price: Most buyers aren't willing to pay a
> > > premium
> > > > > for
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In my search, I found that people were tending to
> > > > > sell "average"
> > > > > > > > coaches in a certain price range - what I
> > > > considered "market
> > > > > > price".
> > > > > > > > Then there were the occasional "refurbished"
coaches
> > > where
> > > > > folks
> > > > > > > > wanted twenty grand above "market price". I wasn't
> > going
> > > to
> > > > > pay
> > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > In fact, I wasn't going to pay "market price" for a
> > coach
> > > > > with
> > > > > > a lot
> > > > > > > > of problems, either.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As a buyer, here's how it worked for me: A good
coach
> > > with
> > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > > wrong commands full market value, perhaps slightly
> > more.
> > > In
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > range I
> > > > > > > > identified mid eighties PT-40s and the market value
I
> > > came
> > > > to
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > about $50,000. Now, I wasn't going to pay full
market
> > > value
> > > > > for
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > coach with a lot of issues. Something that needed
major
> > > > work
> > > > > I
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > have paid $35k for, but sellers still thought they
> > could
> > > > get
> > > > > > $50k.
> > > > > > > On
> > > > > > > > the flip side, many "perfect" coaches, folks were
> > wanting
> > > > > $80k.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When all was said and done I did find a very good
coach
> > > > with
> > > > > > almost
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > problems (few things here and there, but they all
have
> > > > those)
> > > > > > right
> > > > > > > > near what I considered to be fair market value.
This
> > > tells
> > > > me
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > those wanting $80k for their similar coaches are
high,
> > as
> > > > are
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > wanting $50k for something that needs $20k worth of
> > work
> > > to
> > > > > > make it
> > > > > > > > half as nice as mine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, there's my two cents worth.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > > > > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > > > > > > > Tri-Cities, WA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>