Newcomer Questions

[skip_slade]

Hello to All,

My wife and I are now in our early sixties and are seriously
contemplating full-timing for a few years. We anticipate spending
much of the winter well south of the Mason-Dixon and summers in the
northeast. We'd probably put approximately two to three thousand
miles a year on any rig purchased.

I have long admired the BlueBird approach to RVing; however, I must
admit that my knowledge in this area is shallow at best. My wife and
I would greatly appreciate any comments from current full-timers
regarding years and models to look for as well as features that are
considered truly indispensable. When considering any used unit, are
there problem areas that consistently appear and for which we
definitely should be on the lookout?

Also, we are determined to avoid purchasing more vehicle than is
necessary. Generally speaking, what minimum size seems to function
properly for most full-timers and provide the best compromise between
convenience and maneuverability? Anyone wishing to offer rough
estimates on annual utility costs are encouraged to do so.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time and make the
effort.

Allen Jarvis
Merchantville, N.J.

[runnerful]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "skip_slade" <skip@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> My wife and I are now in our early sixties and are seriously
> contemplating full-timing for a few years.

[deletia]

Hi Allan and Co,

I am a BB wannabee but only after more than a year of research. (I
have been accused of over-analysing things a tad.) I will be
purchasing one as soon as I have a better grasp on when I will be
retiring: this year or next.

I will try to share some thoughts with you that I have been through
and which have been shared with me by generous seasoned veterans.

1. First of all, no one here or anywhere else can tell you what is
the "best" choice for fulltiming. There are folks fulltiming in
just about every shape and flavour or rig you can imagine. So, you
just have to put your head down and start researching and testing.

2. If you haven't done any RVing, do some with rental equipment
before you invest $$$$ in something you and your wife don't like.

3. What style of RV do you want?
Motorhome - class A diesel pusher
- class A diesel forward control
- class A gas forward control
- class C
- class C +
- class B
Trailer - pull behind
- fifth wheel

Generally speaking, motorhomes are better for folks who are on the
move a lot (which, from your message doesn't sound like you) and
trailers are better for folks who go somewhere and stay put for
extended periods. But this is a generalisation and not a RULE.

Bear in mind that choosing a motorhome will not necessarily
eliminate the need to tow something since you will possibly want
something other than a 15 - 20 ton bus to go out to pick up a quart
of milk. So, you may need to tow a "dingy" (what the cognocenti
refer to as a "towed").

For this reason, some folks choose a smallish class C, say under 28
feet and no towed. This too has its problems since you must unhook
everything to go shopping or sightseeing.

With a trailer, once you unhook, you have your drive-around
vehicle. Now, if you have a trailer of any significant size, it's
probably at least a 3/4 ton or bigger truck. Some fifth wheels in
the 30'plus size require nothing smaller than a one ton. The 40
footers need medium duty trucks like the Freightligner Fl60 or
Sportchassis. These are seriously big vehicles, costing serious
$$$$.

4. If you've been through all this and KNOW that you want a
motorhome and that it should be a BB (congratulations on your good
taste), the next decision you need to make is how much you should
invest in your first "bird".

5. Once that is set out deduct about $10,000 from that. The
remainder is what you have to check out, collect, licence and pay
for your vehicle. The $10K is for the first two years' expenses to
fix, replace and/or upgrade the vehicle to suit _your_ needs.

6. Next, do you want a forward control (engine in front) or a
pusher (engine in the back)? There are pros and cons to each. Do
some research - there will be a test. ;-) Hint: read everything at
http://www.vintagebirds.com. Read at least a years' worth of messages
here. Preferably, scan everything.

7. Do you want to have access to state/provincial parks? If so,
you probably want something in the 35/36' size as a maximum.

8. As for size with respect to manouverability, once you get up to
35 feet, incremental length isn't such a big deal, IMHO. I've
driven vehicles up to 45 feet profesionally and to be honest, 45
feet just doesn't feel that much bigger than 35 feet. Access to
parks etc is a much bigger issue.

If you're driving a 40-45 foot rig, you're probably looking for
large commercial "destination" type parks and those generally have
pull-through sites.

One thing to remember when you're driving something BIG is never to
go down a road unless you KNOW that you can exit (either by going
around a block, making a U-turn (make sure you know how big your
vehicle's turning circle is), or turning around in a large open
area). The last thing you want to do is to have to back up 5 miles
along a rutted, dirt road to get back to civilisation.

You cannot back up with your towed attached. It must be
disconnected.

9. For full-timers, size is of some important since this is your
home 24/7 but, keep in mind that where ever you are, you have the
whole outdoors to "live". The weather will always be temperate so
you aren't locked indoors. Many folks set up very comfortable
outdoor "rooms" under their large awning. If you feel the need to
sulk or to get away by yourself, it's not difficult.

You also now have the time to bicycle or hike. Visit with the
neighbours. Take crafting/dancing/RV repair classes... well you get
the idea. Drive around to see the sights.

Storage is better in the pushers than in the forward controls.
Mainly in the basement bins.

10. Operating costs, well.... there probably is a correlation
between age of vehicle and costs. But, I suspect that your
diligence regarding PM is a bigger factor in the long run.

Blue Birds are complicated beasts. There are lots of things that
can break. Most vehicles that I've looked into have many things
that do not work and haven't for a long time with the owner having
no intention of fixing them. If you are the kind of person where
everything must be perfect, you will have higher costs than a more
fault tolerant person. A good example is the dash air. Many coaches
have been used for years with no dash air, cooling instead with the
forward A/C unit running off the genny.

But there are other things that cannot be ignored. For example, if
you purchase an older rig it will probably have the Caterpiller 3208
engine. You must attend to valve adjustments on this engine.
Leaving this job too long will begin with increasingly degraded
engine performance right up until a valve snaps off and falls onto a
piston. Unless you have a close relative who is a diesel mechanic,
say hello to a major engine overhaul and bye bye to a lot of money.

For myself, I'm budgeting about $1,500 annual PM costs. (After the
initial $10K)

Anyway, I've certainly wasted way too much bandwidth. If you find
it interesting, I've considered fivers, class C's and finally
decided on a BB, specifically a forward control, 35 feet in length
from the years 85 - 89. I want a side bath and a full-size side
bed. I would prefer 87 - 89 but money will probably dictate an 85
or 86.

Fine print. This barely skims the surface and is entirely my
opinion. Make sure you get lots of opinions, do tons of research
and form your own opinion. Then... have fun.

Cheers,
Ginger
BB wannabee 85FC35

[skip_slade]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "runnerful"
wrote:

> Fine print. This barely skims the surface and is entirely my
> opinion. Make sure you get lots of opinions, do tons of research
> and form your own opinion. Then... have fun.

Ginger,

Thanks for your excellent post. While I realize that generalizations
are a poor choice for direct extensive experience, the reality is
that it would take years to carefully explore all BB possibilities
personally. Most of the older units I've seen advertised are not
within a realistic day's journey from Southern N.J. Seeing,
examining, and driving all the basic engine and drive train
configurations in these older BBs would take some doing, particularly
when you factor in the condition criterion. When you start mixing in
room layouts, etc., it really gets wild.

We're simply attempting to narrow the field just a bit. I would
imagine that there are more than a few individuals who have full-
timed over a number of years in a variety of different Birds. There
may well be strong similarities in what they prefer or must have in
such a vehicle. This information would be of value to anyone starting
his or her search for a BB. Then again, perhaps not.

Thanks again for your fine effort.

--
Regards,
Allen

[ac7880]

Allen,

Have you checked out:
http://www.vintagebirds.com/ history section yet? You can click on
each year, and also click on changes per year. That would be a start
on different layouts and years.
http://www.birdconnection.com/ has some pics and some "asking"
prices, and that may also help.

If you see some that fit your fancy, tell us what models and years
might work for you, and we can offer further advice.

Regards,
Dan
94 BB BMC 37'



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "skip_slade" <skip@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> My wife and I are now in our early sixties and are seriously
> contemplating full-timing for a few years. We anticipate spending
> much of the winter well south of the Mason-Dixon and summers in the
> northeast. We'd probably put approximately two to three thousand
> miles a year on any rig purchased.
>
> I have long admired the BlueBird approach to RVing; however, I must
> admit that my knowledge in this area is shallow at best. My wife
and
> I would greatly appreciate any comments from current full-timers
> regarding years and models to look for as well as features that are
> considered truly indispensable. When considering any used unit, are
> there problem areas that consistently appear and for which we
> definitely should be on the lookout?
>
> Also, we are determined to avoid purchasing more vehicle than is
> necessary. Generally speaking, what minimum size seems to function
> properly for most full-timers and provide the best compromise
between
> convenience and maneuverability? Anyone wishing to offer rough
> estimates on annual utility costs are encouraged to do so.
>
> Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time and make the
> effort.
>
> Allen Jarvis
> Merchantville, N.J.
>

[Ryan Wright]

Allen,

I haven't had my bird a month yet and have never full timed in an RV,
so take everything I say with a huge grain of salt. That said:

I bought a PT-40 and I'm very glad I did. I wouldn't want anything
smaller, to be honest, not for the weekend warrior type camping I plan
to do and certainly not for full timing. I'm the type who likes to be
prepared and independent. I don't like looking for a laundromat and
then waiting around several hours to wash my clothes. I like having
huge storage tanks so I can fill up once and not deal with it for the
next thousand miles. I shop at Costco so I always have thirty extra
rolls of toilet paper handy and eight huge, juicy steaks in my
freezer.

If we didn't have kids at home, my wife and I could full time in this
RV (as soon as I add that washer/dryer). No problem. Anything smaller,
no way. This one's big enough for two people and their stuff and all
of the amenities and it has amazing fuel, water, & holding capacities,
not to mention more storage than I know what to do with. Now, I know
many people full time in smaller vehicles and use laundromats and so
on but I'm not one of them. I like my privacy, my independence, and
the feeling of security I get from being fully stocked up and able to
last for long(er) periods of time without help from the world. (It's
part convenience, part paranoia.)

Certainly there are downsides to the larger vehicle (more expensive to
buy and operate, can't get in to some parks, slightly more difficult
to maneuver, etc) but for me, the pluses far, far outweigh the
minuses.

BTW, I talked to a guy down the street who has been full timing in a
PT-40 for several years and he loves it. After having mine, even for
such a short time, I can fully see why. This size vehicle is very
livable with few, if any, sacrifices necessary.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92
Tri-Cities, WA


On 5/16/07, skip_slade <skip@...> wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> My wife and I are now in our early sixties and are seriously
> contemplating full-timing for a few years. We anticipate spending
> much of the winter well south of the Mason-Dixon and summers in the
> northeast. We'd probably put approximately two to three thousand
> miles a year on any rig purchased.
>
> I have long admired the BlueBird approach to RVing; however, I must
> admit that my knowledge in this area is shallow at best. My wife and
> I would greatly appreciate any comments from current full-timers
> regarding years and models to look for as well as features that are
> considered truly indispensable. When considering any used unit, are
> there problem areas that consistently appear and for which we
> definitely should be on the lookout?
>
> Also, we are determined to avoid purchasing more vehicle than is
> necessary. Generally speaking, what minimum size seems to function
> properly for most full-timers and provide the best compromise between
> convenience and maneuverability? Anyone wishing to offer rough
> estimates on annual utility costs are encouraged to do so.
>
> Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time and make the
> effort.
>
> Allen Jarvis
> Merchantville, N.J.

[Rob Robinson]

Ryan I agree with you except for the washer/dryer. We have never had to wait
at a laundromat. In fact we use campground facilities and there has never in
our three years of full-timing been a problem in that regard. The first
thing I did was throw that Splendid out the front door. I now use the
available space for storage and a large laundry hamper. The hamper, like my
tanks, let's us go a long time between 'wash Mondays' and when we chose to
do a wash it is done much faster in a campground laundromat. Having said
this you could put an apartment style washer/dryer in but I believe the
dryer would be slower than taking it to a regular laundry.

On 20/05/07, Ryan Wright wrote:
>
> Allen,
>
> I haven't had my bird a month yet and have never full timed in an RV,
> so take everything I say with a huge grain of salt. That said:
>
> I bought a PT-40 and I'm very glad I did. I wouldn't want anything
> smaller, to be honest, not for the weekend warrior type camping I plan
> to do and certainly not for full timing. I'm the type who likes to be
> prepared and independent. I don't like looking for a laundromat and
> then waiting around several hours to wash my clothes. I like having
> huge storage tanks so I can fill up once and not deal with it for the
> next thousand miles. I shop at Costco so I always have thirty extra
> rolls of toilet paper handy and eight huge, juicy steaks in my
> freezer.
>
> If we didn't have kids at home, my wife and I could full time in this
> RV (as soon as I add that washer/dryer). No problem. Anything smaller,
> no way. This one's big enough for two people and their stuff and all
> of the amenities and it has amazing fuel, water, & holding capacities,
> not to mention more storage than I know what to do with. Now, I know
> many people full time in smaller vehicles and use laundromats and so
> on but I'm not one of them. I like my privacy, my independence, and
> the feeling of security I get from being fully stocked up and able to
> last for long(er) periods of time without help from the world. (It's
> part convenience, part paranoia.)
>
> Certainly there are downsides to the larger vehicle (more expensive to
> buy and operate, can't get in to some parks, slightly more difficult
> to maneuver, etc) but for me, the pluses far, far outweigh the
> minuses.
>
> BTW, I talked to a guy down the street who has been full timing in a
> PT-40 for several years and he loves it. After having mine, even for
> such a short time, I can fully see why. This size vehicle is very
> livable with few, if any, sacrifices necessary.
>
> -Ryan
> '86 PT-40 8V92
> Tri-Cities, WA
>
> On 5/16/07, skip_slade <skip@... <skip%40ajarvis.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > My wife and I are now in our early sixties and are seriously
> > contemplating full-timing for a few years. We anticipate spending
> > much of the winter well south of the Mason-Dixon and summers in the
> > northeast. We'd probably put approximately two to three thousand
> > miles a year on any rig purchased.
> >
> > I have long admired the BlueBird approach to RVing; however, I must
> > admit that my knowledge in this area is shallow at best. My wife and
> > I would greatly appreciate any comments from current full-timers
> > regarding years and models to look for as well as features that are
> > considered truly indispensable. When considering any used unit, are
> > there problem areas that consistently appear and for which we
> > definitely should be on the lookout?
> >
> > Also, we are determined to avoid purchasing more vehicle than is
> > necessary. Generally speaking, what minimum size seems to function
> > properly for most full-timers and provide the best compromise between
> > convenience and maneuverability? Anyone wishing to offer rough
> > estimates on annual utility costs are encouraged to do so.
> >
> > Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time and make the
> > effort.
> >
> > Allen Jarvis
> > Merchantville, N.J.
>
>



--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
94 WLWB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don Bradner]

The washer/dryer argument will never end, but being on the Splendide side I find
it amusing that the slowness of its dry cycle is ever an argument. I see it this
way.

Laundromat: Dry in 20 minutes
Splendide: Dry in 60 minutes
Laundromat: Wait 20 minutes for it to dry.
Splendide: Wait zero minutes for it to dry.

Same for the wash part, not to mention the time to haul the clothes somewhere.
When the W/D is in your own house, it takes up none of your time to wash and
dry, regardless of the chronological time spent by the machine.

On 5/20/2007 at 3:40 AM Rob Robinson wrote:

>Ryan I agree with you except for the washer/dryer. We have never had to
>wait
>at a laundromat. In fact we use campground facilities and there has never
>in
>our three years of full-timing been a problem in that regard. The first
>thing I did was throw that Splendid out the front door. I now use the
>available space for storage and a large laundry hamper. The hamper, like my
>tanks, let's us go a long time between 'wash Mondays' and when we chose to
>do a wash it is done much faster in a campground laundromat. Having said
>this you could put an apartment style washer/dryer in but I believe the
>dryer would be slower than taking it to a regular laundry.

[Rob Robinson]

I hear ya Don but you got to admit to do a large wash in a Splendid you have
to spend all day with many loads or many days with single loads waiting zero
minutes to do the wash. Then you have to do the zero minute thing all over
again to accomplish the drying. At least you get your exercise I guess VBG.
You are also right that the washer/dryer thing is like tires and batteries.
A never-ending source or conjecture.

On 20/05/07, Don Bradner wrote:
>
> The washer/dryer argument will never end, but being on the Splendide
> side I find it amusing that the slowness of its dry cycle is ever an
> argument. I see it this way.
>
> Laundromat: Dry in 20 minutes
> Splendide: Dry in 60 minutes
> Laundromat: Wait 20 minutes for it to dry.
> Splendide: Wait zero minutes for it to dry.
>
> Same for the wash part, not to mention the time to haul the clothes
> somewhere. When the W/D is in your own house, it takes up none of your time
> to wash and dry, regardless of the chronological time spent by the machine.
>
> On 5/20/2007 at 3:40 AM Rob Robinson wrote:
>
> >Ryan I agree with you except for the washer/dryer. We have never had to
> >wait
> >at a laundromat. In fact we use campground facilities and there has never
> >in
> >our three years of full-timing been a problem in that regard. The first
> >thing I did was throw that Splendid out the front door. I now use the
> >available space for storage and a large laundry hamper. The hamper, like
> my
> >tanks, let's us go a long time between 'wash Mondays' and when we chose
> to
> >do a wash it is done much faster in a campground laundromat. Having said
> >this you could put an apartment style washer/dryer in but I believe the
> >dryer would be slower than taking it to a regular laundry.
>
>
>



--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
94 WLWB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---Ryan:
For us,....a washer/dryer is a MUST in our bird. We had a Splendide
5200 and a 6200 in each of our birds and they are fine...we do a bit
of washing each day as they do not take a large load. To us,
functional utility of the space used by the Splendide is better
utilized with the washer/dryer v. storage "stuff."
I have never been able to get over the "doggy rugs" etc. in the
campground laundramats.
LOL,
Hank Hannigan..still chillin in Vegas
90SP36







In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Robinson"
wrote:
>
> Ryan I agree with you except for the washer/dryer. We have never
had to wait
> at a laundromat. In fact we use campground facilities and there has
never in
> our three years of full-timing been a problem in that regard. The
first
> thing I did was throw that Splendid out the front door. I now use
the
> available space for storage and a large laundry hamper. The hamper,
like my
> tanks, let's us go a long time between 'wash Mondays' and when we
chose to
> do a wash it is done much faster in a campground laundromat. Having
said
> this you could put an apartment style washer/dryer in but I believe
the
> dryer would be slower than taking it to a regular laundry.
>
> On 20/05/07, Ryan Wright wrote:
> >
> > Allen,
> >
> > I haven't had my bird a month yet and have never full timed in an
RV,
> > so take everything I say with a huge grain of salt. That said:
> >
> > I bought a PT-40 and I'm very glad I did. I wouldn't want anything
> > smaller, to be honest, not for the weekend warrior type camping I
plan
> > to do and certainly not for full timing. I'm the type who likes
to be
> > prepared and independent. I don't like looking for a laundromat
and
> > then waiting around several hours to wash my clothes. I like
having
> > huge storage tanks so I can fill up once and not deal with it for
the
> > next thousand miles. I shop at Costco so I always have thirty
extra
> > rolls of toilet paper handy and eight huge, juicy steaks in my
> > freezer.
> >
> > If we didn't have kids at home, my wife and I could full time in
this
> > RV (as soon as I add that washer/dryer). No problem. Anything
smaller,
> > no way. This one's big enough for two people and their stuff and
all
> > of the amenities and it has amazing fuel, water, & holding
capacities,
> > not to mention more storage than I know what to do with. Now, I
know
> > many people full time in smaller vehicles and use laundromats and
so
> > on but I'm not one of them. I like my privacy, my independence,
and
> > the feeling of security I get from being fully stocked up and
able to
> > last for long(er) periods of time without help from the world.
(It's
> > part convenience, part paranoia.)
> >
> > Certainly there are downsides to the larger vehicle (more
expensive to
> > buy and operate, can't get in to some parks, slightly more
difficult
> > to maneuver, etc) but for me, the pluses far, far outweigh the
> > minuses.
> >
> > BTW, I talked to a guy down the street who has been full timing
in a
> > PT-40 for several years and he loves it. After having mine, even
for
> > such a short time, I can fully see why. This size vehicle is very
> > livable with few, if any, sacrifices necessary.
> >
> > -Ryan
> > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > Tri-Cities, WA
> >
> > On 5/16/07, skip_slade <skip@... <skip%40ajarvis.net>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello to All,
> > >
> > > My wife and I are now in our early sixties and are seriously
> > > contemplating full-timing for a few years. We anticipate
spending
> > > much of the winter well south of the Mason-Dixon and summers in
the
> > > northeast. We'd probably put approximately two to three thousand
> > > miles a year on any rig purchased.
> > >
> > > I have long admired the BlueBird approach to RVing; however, I
must
> > > admit that my knowledge in this area is shallow at best. My
wife and
> > > I would greatly appreciate any comments from current full-timers
> > > regarding years and models to look for as well as features that
are
> > > considered truly indispensable. When considering any used unit,
are
> > > there problem areas that consistently appear and for which we
> > > definitely should be on the lookout?
> > >
> > > Also, we are determined to avoid purchasing more vehicle than is
> > > necessary. Generally speaking, what minimum size seems to
function
> > > properly for most full-timers and provide the best compromise
between
> > > convenience and maneuverability? Anyone wishing to offer rough
> > > estimates on annual utility costs are encouraged to do so.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time and make
the
> > > effort.
> > >
> > > Allen Jarvis
> > > Merchantville, N.J.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
> 94 WLWB
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Don Bradner]

The usage pattern with a Splendide is definitely different than when you have
high-capacity W/Ds available, but it is not hard to get in a habit of one or two
loads per day that don't interfere with anything else you might be doing
(except driving!). The zero minutes waiting for wash and zero minutes waiting
for dry are concurrent, since the machine does both automatically.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting on the road by satellite from
Portland, Oregon

On 5/20/2007 at 9:33 AM Rob Robinson wrote:

>I hear ya Don but you got to admit to do a large wash in a Splendid you
>have
>to spend all day with many loads or many days with single loads waiting
>zero
>minutes to do the wash. Then you have to do the zero minute thing all over
>again to accomplish the drying. At least you get your exercise I guess VBG.
>You are also right that the washer/dryer thing is like tires and batteries.
>A never-ending source or conjecture.
>
>On 20/05/07, Don Bradner wrote:
>>
>> The washer/dryer argument will never end, but being on the Splendide
>> side I find it amusing that the slowness of its dry cycle is ever an
>> argument. I see it this way.
>>
>> Laundromat: Dry in 20 minutes
>> Splendide: Dry in 60 minutes
>> Laundromat: Wait 20 minutes for it to dry.
>> Splendide: Wait zero minutes for it to dry.
>>
>> Same for the wash part, not to mention the time to haul the clothes
>> somewhere. When the W/D is in your own house, it takes up none of your
>time
>> to wash and dry, regardless of the chronological time spent by the
>machine.