Leaky waste tank

[Don Bradner]

Anybody ever have to deal with a leaking waste tank?

Mine started leaking a few days ago, parked in my driveway with, at a guess, 10
gallons of fluid in it. I pulled the shroud, emptied the tank and dried things
out, then today filled it until it started leaking. Took to 3/4 full before
leaking became obvious, and it quickly grew. So far as I can tell it is not from
anywhere around the drain - appears to come from somewhere further to the rear.

I'm guessing my only option is to pull it and look. I'm taking it to my local
small RV repairer tomorrow - as usual they will be happy to have me do most of
the labor under their direction and with their tools.

I hoping they will have good ideas on how to get it off the valve in order to
get it turned to come out, but I'm wondering if someone has done it on a PT-40?


Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA

[davidkerryedwards]

Dealt with a number. I've found SuperMend epoxy to be an excellent fix. It's
available at
my local hardware store in the glue section. I typically use fiberglass cloth
with it for
larger leaks. I have found it superior to plastic welding. I've never found it
necessary to
remove a tank in order to repair it.

Kerry
82 Fc 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" wrote:
>
> Anybody ever have to deal with a leaking waste tank?
>
> Mine started leaking a few days ago, parked in my driveway with, at a guess,
10 gallons
of fluid in it. I pulled the shroud, emptied the tank and dried things out, then
today filled it
until it started leaking. Took to 3/4 full before leaking became obvious, and it
quickly
grew. So far as I can tell it is not from anywhere around the drain - appears to
come from
somewhere further to the rear.
>
> I'm guessing my only option is to pull it and look. I'm taking it to my local
small RV
repairer tomorrow - as usual they will be happy to have me do most of the labor
under
their direction and with their tools.
>
> I hoping they will have good ideas on how to get it off the valve in order to
get it turned
to come out, but I'm wondering if someone has done it on a PT-40?
>
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Eureka, CA
>

[Don Bradner]

I gather from that you've never had a leak you couldn't see?

Near the front (outside) edge below my tank is a strip of plywood support.
Behind that there is an air gap, then plywood that begins at the center of the
drain and goes back (toward coach centerline) an unknown amount. Looks like it
is quite wide, maybe goes all the way?

When the leak starts, it begins with that large piece of plywood "weeping"
apparently all along its length (as seen with a mirror and flashlight). Water
then flows in all directions including under the forward plywood strip. Using
the mirror, it appears the bottom of the tank is dry forward of the larger piece
of plywood.

There are lots of places the leak could be (sides, bottom, back) that are not
visible.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA

On 8/15/2007 at 1:21 AM davidkerryedwards wrote:

>Dealt with a number. I've found SuperMend epoxy to be an excellent fix.
>It's available at
>my local hardware store in the glue section. I typically use fiberglass
>cloth with it for
>larger leaks. I have found it superior to plastic welding. I've never
>found it necessary to
>remove a tank in order to repair it.
>
>Kerry
>82 Fc 35
>Denver

[davidkerryedwards]

Most I have been able to see. The ones I couldn't see closely enough to pin
down exactly,
I just patched a larger area to make sure I fixed it. Sounds like yours is not
one of those.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" wrote:
>
> I gather from that you've never had a leak you couldn't see?
>
> Near the front (outside) edge below my tank is a strip of plywood support.
Behind that
there is an air gap, then plywood that begins at the center of the drain and
goes back
(toward coach centerline) an unknown amount. Looks like it is quite wide, maybe
goes all
the way?
>
> When the leak starts, it begins with that large piece of plywood "weeping"
apparently all
along its length (as seen with a mirror and flashlight). Water then flows in all
directions
including under the forward plywood strip. Using the mirror, it appears the
bottom of the
tank is dry forward of the larger piece of plywood.
>
> There are lots of places the leak could be (sides, bottom, back) that are not
visible.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Eureka, CA
>
> On 8/15/2007 at 1:21 AM davidkerryedwards wrote:
>
> >Dealt with a number. I've found SuperMend epoxy to be an excellent fix.
> >It's available at
> >my local hardware store in the glue section. I typically use fiberglass
> >cloth with it for
> >larger leaks. I have found it superior to plastic welding. I've never
> >found it necessary to
> >remove a tank in order to repair it.
> >
> >Kerry
> >82 Fc 35
> >Denver
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Don, I thought a while back that my tank was leaking. I was about to pull it,
the grey tank. At the last minute I found that the seal in the drain valve had
rolled up(because I did not grease it) an fluid was running out the top of the
valve down the pipe and under the tank making it appear the tank was leaking. I
changed the rubber and no further problems.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
Royale Conversion
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Bradner
To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:04 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Leaky waste tank


Anybody ever have to deal with a leaking waste tank?

Mine started leaking a few days ago, parked in my driveway with, at a guess,
10 gallons of fluid in it. I pulled the shroud, emptied the tank and dried
things out, then today filled it until it started leaking. Took to 3/4 full
before leaking became obvious, and it quickly grew. So far as I can tell it is
not from anywhere around the drain - appears to come from somewhere further to
the rear.

I'm guessing my only option is to pull it and look. I'm taking it to my local
small RV repairer tomorrow - as usual they will be happy to have me do most of
the labor under their direction and with their tools.

I hoping they will have good ideas on how to get it off the valve in order to
get it turned to come out, but I'm wondering if someone has done it on a PT-40?

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don Bradner]

Now you are going to make me second guess myself! Actually, I think that is
pretty remote, for a few reasons. First is that the leak began when there was
far less fluid in the tank than the top of the valve. Second is that I was
checking the valve and drain extremely closely (using an extension mirror to see
the back and bottom) as I was filling, when everything was dry, because I
considered it a prime area. I wasn't actually thinking about the valve itself,
but rather the connections. All of that valve and pipe stayed dry even when the
base below the valve eventually became wet as it spread.

Yesterday while I was getting everything dried out I did pull the valve and
grease it as a routine maintenance item - it looks fine, although it is getting
stiff and probably needs replacing at some point soon.

On 8/14/2007 at 10:21 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>Don, I thought a while back that my tank was leaking. I was about to pull
>it, the grey tank. At the last minute I found that the seal in the drain
>valve had rolled up(because I did not grease it) an fluid was running out
>the top of the valve down the pipe and under the tank making it appear the
>tank was leaking. I changed the rubber and no further problems.
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
>Niceville, FL
>Royale Conversion
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Bradner
> To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:04 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Leaky waste tank
>
>
> Anybody ever have to deal with a leaking waste tank?
>
> Mine started leaking a few days ago, parked in my driveway with, at a
>guess, 10 gallons of fluid in it. I pulled the shroud, emptied the tank
>and dried things out, then today filled it until it started leaking. Took
>to 3/4 full before leaking became obvious, and it quickly grew. So far as
>I can tell it is not from anywhere around the drain - appears to come from
>somewhere further to the rear.
>
> I'm guessing my only option is to pull it and look. I'm taking it to my
>local small RV repairer tomorrow - as usual they will be happy to have me
>do most of the labor under their direction and with their tools.
>
> I hoping they will have good ideas on how to get it off the valve in
>order to get it turned to come out, but I'm wondering if someone has done
>it on a PT-40?
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Eureka, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Ok, it sounds like something else. Just some additional info for you. I followed
the same water level theory when looking for my problem. That didn't quite pan
out as planned. I found out after nearly taking a smelly bath that the drain
pipe fills up and backs up into the upper portion of the valve. I took the cap
off the end of the drain pipe to hook up the hose, the flood came.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
Royale Conversion
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Bradner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Leaky waste tank


Now you are going to make me second guess myself! Actually, I think that is
pretty remote, for a few reasons. First is that the leak began when there was
far less fluid in the tank than the top of the valve. Second is that I was
checking the valve and drain extremely closely (using an extension mirror to see
the back and bottom) as I was filling, when everything was dry, because I
considered it a prime area. I wasn't actually thinking about the valve itself,
but rather the connections. All of that valve and pipe stayed dry even when the
base below the valve eventually became wet as it spread.

Yesterday while I was getting everything dried out I did pull the valve and
grease it as a routine maintenance item - it looks fine, although it is getting
stiff and probably needs replacing at some point soon.

On 8/14/2007 at 10:21 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>Don, I thought a while back that my tank was leaking. I was about to pull
>it, the grey tank. At the last minute I found that the seal in the drain
>valve had rolled up(because I did not grease it) an fluid was running out
>the top of the valve down the pipe and under the tank making it appear the
>tank was leaking. I changed the rubber and no further problems.
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
>Niceville, FL
>Royale Conversion
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Bradner
> To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:04 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Leaky waste tank
>
>
> Anybody ever have to deal with a leaking waste tank?
>
> Mine started leaking a few days ago, parked in my driveway with, at a
>guess, 10 gallons of fluid in it. I pulled the shroud, emptied the tank
>and dried things out, then today filled it until it started leaking. Took
>to 3/4 full before leaking became obvious, and it quickly grew. So far as
>I can tell it is not from anywhere around the drain - appears to come from
>somewhere further to the rear.
>
> I'm guessing my only option is to pull it and look. I'm taking it to my
>local small RV repairer tomorrow - as usual they will be happy to have me
>do most of the labor under their direction and with their tools.
>
> I hoping they will have good ideas on how to get it off the valve in
>order to get it turned to come out, but I'm wondering if someone has done
>it on a PT-40?
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Eureka, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Chuck Wheeler]

I had a small leak from one of the rubber grommets that hold the level
sensors in place. Looked like something had "hooked" the connecting wire.
It was a fairly easy replacement on a FC. It would only leak when the fluid
was above the level of the leaking sensor.



- Chuck Wheeler -

82 FC 31 SB

Fort Worth, TX

_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leroy Eckert
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:05 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Leaky waste tank



Ok, it sounds like something else. Just some additional info for you. I
followed the same water level theory when looking for my problem. That
didn't quite pan out as planned. I found out after nearly taking a smelly
bath that the drain pipe fills up and backs up into the upper portion of the
valve. I took the cap off the end of the drain pipe to hook up the hose, the
flood came.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
Royale Conversion
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Bradner
To: WanderlodgeForum@
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Leaky waste tank

Now you are going to make me second guess myself! Actually, I think that is
pretty remote, for a few reasons. First is that the leak began when there
was far less fluid in the tank than the top of the valve. Second is that I
was checking the valve and drain extremely closely (using an extension
mirror to see the back and bottom) as I was filling, when everything was
dry, because I considered it a prime area. I wasn't actually thinking about
the valve itself, but rather the connections. All of that valve and pipe
stayed dry even when the base below the valve eventually became wet as it
spread.

Yesterday while I was getting everything dried out I did pull the valve and
grease it as a routine maintenance item - it looks fine, although it is
getting stiff and probably needs replacing at some point soon.

On 8/14/2007 at 10:21 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>Don, I thought a while back that my tank was leaking. I was about to pull
>it, the grey tank. At the last minute I found that the seal in the drain
>valve had rolled up(because I did not grease it) an fluid was running out
>the top of the valve down the pipe and under the tank making it appear the
>tank was leaking. I changed the rubber and no further problems.
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
>Niceville, FL
>Royale Conversion
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Bradner
> To: wanderlodgeforum@
yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:04 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Leaky waste tank
>
>
> Anybody ever have to deal with a leaking waste tank?
>
> Mine started leaking a few days ago, parked in my driveway with, at a
>guess, 10 gallons of fluid in it. I pulled the shroud, emptied the tank
>and dried things out, then today filled it until it started leaking. Took
>to 3/4 full before leaking became obvious, and it quickly grew. So far as
>I can tell it is not from anywhere around the drain - appears to come from
>somewhere further to the rear.
>
> I'm guessing my only option is to pull it and look. I'm taking it to my
>local small RV repairer tomorrow - as usual they will be happy to have me
>do most of the labor under their direction and with their tools.
>
> I hoping they will have good ideas on how to get it off the valve in
>order to get it turned to come out, but I'm wondering if someone has done
>it on a PT-40?
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Eureka, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don Bradner]

Spent the day removing the tank, just tons of fun! The bottom has 3 major (6
inches or more) fractures in a somewhat semi-circular pattern, and numerous
small cracks that don't go through yet. The bottom bears the slightly melted
pattern of the tank heater, and all of the cracks are within that area. I have
never used the heaters, and hope to never be in a situation where they would be
called for.

I sanded the bottom, and the local RV outfit where I removed it will fiberglass
the entire bottom this afternoon evening. Hope to reinstall tomorrow or Friday.

Steps in the process, for anyone who cares:

Remove the sensor wires, disconnect the vent pipe (which is also the sink drain)
then remove the shroud. I don't know if all such units have a rubber coupler on
the vent, but that certainly makes it easy.

Remove the rivets holding the door frame, plus 4 screws at top center inside and
the gas strut, then take the door and frame off. This would make the shroud
removal easier, but I did the shroud 2 days ago at home, and just removed the
door today.

Remove the toilet. Mine is an electric Microphor, so there are 4 wires going to
the control unit and 8 wires from the control. I removed the control and jotted
down where each wire went then removed them.

Remove wax ring and 8 screws holding the flange, then pull the pipe out of the
tank. It is held by a hose clamp, and after removing the clamp I found that the
easiest way to pop the pipe out of the fitting was with a nail bar using a 2x4
for the fulcrum and to distribute the force over a large enough area. Came free
easily that way.

Remove the Dupree valve. On mine there is no way to do that without irreperable
damage, so first thing this morning I called Stephen Birtles and got a new valve
body and 2 paddles (the grey needs replacing) on their way - should be here
Friday. I used an air reciprocating saw (one of the few tools I've not found
sufficient need to buy, so used the RV shop's) to saw through next to the valve
body on the tank side, and in the elbow on the drain side.

Remove a second piece of shroud. Couldn't get the one screw holding it to budge,
either before the valve was removed, or after, so used a cutoff blade to get rid
of it. will drill a new hole on replacement.

Slide the tank out.

After that I cut off the cross-pipe from the curbside about 8 inches from the
Tee. Everything from there out will be rebuilt with new parts - Tee, street Ell,
valve body, extended street Ell, and hose connector.

[Terry Neal]

Don,

Sounds like the tank material was maybe weakened by the tank heater over
the years? Good to know & certainly something to check for the rest of
us. You should be good for another 25 years now.

Terry Neal
Bozeman, MT
82PT40 6V92TA
74FC34 6V53T



Don Bradner wrote:

> Spent the day removing the tank, just tons of fun! The bottom has 3
> major (6 inches or more) fractures in a somewhat semi-circular
> pattern, and numerous small cracks that don't go through yet. The
> bottom bears the slightly melted pattern of the tank heater, and all
> of the cracks are within that area. I have never used the heaters, and
> hope to never be in a situation where they would be called for.
>
> I sanded the bottom, and the local RV outfit where I removed it will
> fiberglass the entire bottom this afternoon evening. Hope to reinstall
> tomorrow or Friday.
>
> Steps in the process, for anyone who cares:
>
> Remove the sensor wires, disconnect the vent pipe (which is also the
> sink drain) then remove the shroud. I don't know if all such units
> have a rubber coupler on the vent, but that certainly makes it easy.
>
> Remove the rivets holding the door frame, plus 4 screws at top center
> inside and the gas strut, then take the door and frame off. This would
> make the shroud removal easier, but I did the shroud 2 days ago at
> home, and just removed the door today.
>
> Remove the toilet. Mine is an electric Microphor, so there are 4 wires
> going to the control unit and 8 wires from the control. I removed the
> control and jotted down where each wire went then removed them.
>
> Remove wax ring and 8 screws holding the flange, then pull the pipe
> out of the tank. It is held by a hose clamp, and after removing the
> clamp I found that the easiest way to pop the pipe out of the fitting
> was with a nail bar using a 2x4 for the fulcrum and to distribute the
> force over a large enough area. Came free easily that way.
>
> Remove the Dupree valve. On mine there is no way to do that without
> irreperable damage, so first thing this morning I called Stephen
> Birtles and got a new valve body and 2 paddles (the grey needs
> replacing) on their way - should be here Friday. I used an air
> reciprocating saw (one of the few tools I've not found sufficient need
> to buy, so used the RV shop's) to saw through next to the valve body
> on the tank side, and in the elbow on the drain side.
>
> Remove a second piece of shroud. Couldn't get the one screw holding it
> to budge, either before the valve was removed, or after, so used a
> cutoff blade to get rid of it. will drill a new hole on replacement.
>
> Slide the tank out.
>
> After that I cut off the cross-pipe from the curbside about 8 inches
> from the Tee. Everything from there out will be rebuilt with new parts
> - Tee, street Ell, valve body, extended street Ell, and hose connector.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]