Why the rebuilds?

[bingomaster05]

I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge within the
next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel engine is
capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for extended
periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it harder
to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.

Dan Thomas
PT 40 (soon)
Central PA

[mbulriss]

>Is this mainly due to being poorly
>maintained and general neglect

Generally speaking, "yes", IMO. One million miles might be an
overstatement, but 300+ should be easily achievable. There are always
unexpected catastrophic failures of course, these are mechanical
objects after all, but it is generally accepted as most often due to
owner/operator/mechanic's error when these diesels don't make it well
past 100K.

Welcome to the forum.

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bingomaster05"
wrote:
>
> I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge within the
> next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel engine is
> capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for extended
> periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
> are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it harder
> to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
>
> Dan Thomas
> PT 40 (soon)
> Central PA
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Detroits can be repaired in frame ( without removing the engine) Many
owners faced with replacing one cylinder opt for a complete rebuild
because they fear the failure on one cylinder to be a sign of
additional engine problems. the entire reman is the owners decision
to gain "peace of Mind". ON road trucks would only invest one
cylinder because the entire truck is worth less than a complete reman
engine.
if you burn up an engine you over heated the trans. replaced engine
adverts clue me to possible tranny issues but for the most part the
engine was replaced because ending value of the rig allowed for the
purchas of "peace of mind"
GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> >Is this mainly due to being poorly
> >maintained and general neglect
>
> Generally speaking, "yes", IMO. One million miles might be an
> overstatement, but 300+ should be easily achievable. There are
always
> unexpected catastrophic failures of course, these are mechanical
> objects after all, but it is generally accepted as most often due
to
> owner/operator/mechanic's error when these diesels don't make it
well
> past 100K.
>
> Welcome to the forum.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bingomaster05"
> wrote:
> >
> > I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge
within the
> > next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most
new
> > coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel
engine is
> > capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have
found
> > listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have
just
> > slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> > maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for
extended
> > periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think
they
> > are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it
harder
> > to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
> >
> > Dan Thomas
> > PT 40 (soon)
> > Central PA
> >
>

[davidkerryedwards]

It would be interesting to know the comparative life spans of engines in bus
applications
vs. engines in motorhome applications. With buses there is generally (at least
with
schoolbuses), a mechanic who is responsible for their mechanical health. There
isn't such
a mechanic with most motorhomes, and many people who buy motorhomes are not
themselves mechanics, meaning a problem which might be caught early and fixed is
not
as likely to be detected in a motorhome, particularly pushers where sounds and
smells are
a long way from the driver. Add to that the fact that people with enough $$ to
buy these
coaches new, are of advanced age with sensory skills past their prime.
My Fc had the engine replaced at 75k. Records show a rod went thru the block.
Don't
know why, but those kinds of events usually give some kind of warning.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bingomaster05"
wrote:
>
> I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge within the
> next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel engine is
> capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for extended
> periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
> are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it harder
> to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
>
> Dan Thomas
> PT 40 (soon)
> Central PA
>

[Pete Masterson]

The million mile life span is more generally related to the chassis
rather than the engine. Most big diesel engines may need a rebuild
(or partial rebuild) at around 500,000 miles.

The primary reason that so many motorhome engines need a premature
rebuild is due to overheating. In part, the transmissions used with
coaches (often 5 or 6 speed automatic) do not allow the flexibility
to set up a hill climb at the optimum engine RPM as with a truck
with 12 or more gears (and no ATF to cool). A secondary reason is
that motorhome drivers are often less aware of the maintenance issues
necessary to ensure adequate cooling. The rear engine coaches, in
particular, have a tendency for the radiator to become clogged with
oily dirt. Annual cleaning is essential -- but often overlooked. It
doesn't take much to cook an engine -- and most big diesels do not
handle overheating very well.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
aeonix1@...



On Sep 3, 2007, at 9:14 AM, bingomaster05 wrote:

> I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge within
> the
> next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel
> engine is
> capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for extended
> periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
> are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it
> harder
> to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
>
> Dan Thomas
> PT 40 (soon)
> Central PA



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Howard O. Truitt]

Kerry,
I was before retiring the senior partner and ceo of a food service company here
in Georgia.
We ran a fleet of refrigerated trucks powered with 3208 cats and we sure had our
troubles. We did employ some very able mechinics to work on them in our garage.
Howard
86 PT40
Camilla, Ga.

----- Original Message -----
From: davidkerryedwards
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 1:03 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Why the rebuilds?


It would be interesting to know the comparative life spans of engines in bus
applications
vs. engines in motorhome applications. With buses there is generally (at least
with
schoolbuses), a mechanic who is responsible for their mechanical health. There
isn't such
a mechanic with most motorhomes, and many people who buy motorhomes are not
themselves mechanics, meaning a problem which might be caught early and fixed
is not
as likely to be detected in a motorhome, particularly pushers where sounds and
smells are
a long way from the driver. Add to that the fact that people with enough $$ to
buy these
coaches new, are of advanced age with sensory skills past their prime.
My Fc had the engine replaced at 75k. Records show a rod went thru the block.
Don't
know why, but those kinds of events usually give some kind of warning.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bingomaster05"
wrote:
>
> I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge within the
> next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel engine is
> capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for extended
> periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
> are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it harder
> to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
>
> Dan Thomas
> PT 40 (soon)
> Central PA
>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ryan Wright]

Dan, I just bought my PT-40 a few months back and I had the same
question you have. Just too many rebuilds sitting around out there -
are these bad engines, or what? Here's what I found: Every coach ad
that interested me but had a rebuild, I contacted the owner and asked
why. Every one of them had been overheated.

So, there's your answer. Don't overheat the engine and it should last
you a long time. Keep up on maintenance - coolant, oil, filter
changes, etc, etc. Watch your gauges. The 8V92 will pull a hill like a
bat out of hell if you tell it to, but that doesn't make it OK. Also,
from what I was told, the slobber tubes discharge oil which tends to
fly around the engine compartment and often gets sucked through the
radiator, clogging it up and reducing cooling capacity. Keep your
radiator clean (I power-washed mine when I got the coach home, even
though it was already clean).

When you stop, look things over. Every time I pull into a rest area,
or stop for lunch, etc, I turn the high idle on and let the engine run
for a few minutes to cool down - while this is happening I take a walk
around the coach and check things out. This way I have an opportunity
to hear, see and smell a nice hot engine while it's running, and just
generally check the coach over, look at the tires, etc. Make this
walk-around a habit so you can really be "in tune" with your coach.
When you can start to feel how she's behaving, you'll be able to catch
problems before they turn into disasters.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92
Tri-Cities, WA

On 9/3/07, bingomaster05 wrote:
> I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge within the
> next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel engine is
> capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for extended
> periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
> are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it harder
> to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
>
> Dan Thomas
> PT 40 (soon)
> Central PA
>

[bloomas]

----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Wright
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Why the rebuilds?
Ryan Not a good idea to power wash the radiator not if but when you brake the
cooling fins off you will be buying a new core.five years ago it coast me $1,800
bucks for the core.
Bob Loomas 1985 PT 36


Dan, I just bought my PT-40 a few months back and I had the same
question you have. Just too many rebuilds sitting around out there -
are these bad engines, or what? Here's what I found: Every coach ad
that interested me but had a rebuild, I contacted the owner and asked
why. Every one of them had been overheated.

So, there's your answer. Don't overheat the engine and it should last
you a long time. Keep up on maintenance - coolant, oil, filter
changes, etc, etc. Watch your gauges. The 8V92 will pull a hill like a
bat out of hell if you tell it to, but that doesn't make it OK. Also,
from what I was told, the slobber tubes discharge oil which tends to
fly around the engine compartment and often gets sucked through the
radiator, clogging it up and reducing cooling capacity. Keep your
radiator clean (I power-washed mine when I got the coach home, even
though it was already clean).

When you stop, look things over. Every time I pull into a rest area,
or stop for lunch, etc, I turn the high idle on and let the engine run
for a few minutes to cool down - while this is happening I take a walk
around the coach and check things out. This way I have an opportunity
to hear, see and smell a nice hot engine while it's running, and just
generally check the coach over, look at the tires, etc. Make this
walk-around a habit so you can really be "in tune" with your coach.
When you can start to feel how she's behaving, you'll be able to catch
problems before they turn into disasters.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92
Tri-Cities, WA

On 9/3/07, bingomaster05 wrote:
> I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge within the
> next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel engine is
> capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for extended
> periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
> are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it harder
> to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
>
> Dan Thomas
> PT 40 (soon)
> Central PA
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Stephen Birtles]

Bearing in mind that new 3208's have not been produced since 1991 or 2
your only option is to to either rebuild your engine or repklaceit
with a re-manned engine
3208 has some quirks likes the tendency to drop valves or the fuel
pump leaking
But overall the amount of engines that were produced it has been
reliable there are still a lot of boats trucks heavy equipment and
buses that have the original engine installed some with many thousands
of miles and boats with many thousands of hours
The preconceived notion that a diesel engine is bullet proof is wrong
it is just heavier built. all the components usually weigh more to
combat the stresses of compression ignition
The problem with a coach is that it sits for long periods of time and
then is used and abused for a vacation then sits again for long
periods of time.
A diesel likes to run at a constant RPM for long periods of time with
little fluctuation
that is where the longevity of a diesel starts to appear
an example would be prime power for a communication shack in an
isolated area these gennys are the same you and I would buy except for
an extended oil pan they are set up with 2000 gallon fuel tank and a
500 gallon oil tank once setup and started it is not unusual to see
20,000 or even 30,000 hours of service they stay there till they die
then are replaced with new the old hulk is not returned because of the
cost of moving it. they are checked on remotely and serviced when
being refueled that is it.
My coach has had three motors in it the first dropped a valve for the
previous owner in 1996 the replacement for that was just plain junk
was replaced in 1999 compliments of caterpillar should have never been
rebuilt the third is a beauty low oil consumption reasonable mileage
no problems yet. It sits unloved and unwanted and not plugged in from
mid November until mid May every year and has not failed to start yet
when brought out from storage june is reserved for fixing the stuff I
broke last year.Right now I am chasing a coolant leak it will proabbly
turn out to be a head gasket solution pull the head check it replace
the gasket new bolts and away we go it will be done this winter still
have to go to riv and rats
Don't let a rebuild dissuade someone from buying a reasonable coach
3208 are a reasonably priced rebuild try rebuilding a 8v92 then you
will see sticker shock
Stephen 77fc35
Dupree Valves
Wanderlodge Vintage Parts




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright"
wrote:
>
> Dan, I just bought my PT-40 a few months back and I had the same
> question you have. Just too many rebuilds sitting around out there -
> are these bad engines, or what? Here's what I found: Every coach ad
> that interested me but had a rebuild, I contacted the owner and asked
> why. Every one of them had been overheated.
>
> So, there's your answer. Don't overheat the engine and it should last
> you a long time. Keep up on maintenance - coolant, oil, filter
> changes, etc, etc. Watch your gauges. The 8V92 will pull a hill like a
> bat out of hell if you tell it to, but that doesn't make it OK. Also,
> from what I was told, the slobber tubes discharge oil which tends to
> fly around the engine compartment and often gets sucked through the
> radiator, clogging it up and reducing cooling capacity. Keep your
> radiator clean (I power-washed mine when I got the coach home, even
> though it was already clean).
>
> When you stop, look things over. Every time I pull into a rest area,
> or stop for lunch, etc, I turn the high idle on and let the engine run
> for a few minutes to cool down - while this is happening I take a walk
> around the coach and check things out. This way I have an opportunity
> to hear, see and smell a nice hot engine while it's running, and just
> generally check the coach over, look at the tires, etc. Make this
> walk-around a habit so you can really be "in tune" with your coach.
> When you can start to feel how she's behaving, you'll be able to catch
> problems before they turn into disasters.
>
> -Ryan
> '86 PT-40 8V92
> Tri-Cities, WA
>
> On 9/3/07, bingomaster05 wrote:
> > I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge
within the
> > next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> > coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel
engine is
> > capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> > listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> > slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> > maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for
extended
> > periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
> > are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it
harder
> > to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
> >
> > Dan Thomas
> > PT 40 (soon)
> > Central PA
> >
>

[Richard Hayden]

I just bought a re-core and it was $3500, + tax, with me doing the take out and
put back. The core had apparently been driven in the winter a lot where salt
was used. The fins were tissue thin and would break at the touch. Hadn't
started leaking but I'm sure that was next. I'm glad I caught it when I did.

By the way, my fan draws in from the outside not from within the engine
compartment. The old core did not show any signs of oil crud from the engine.
It was really quite clean except for the old black paint flaking. I had no
overheating problem, I just thought it would be a good idea to look at with the
louvers off.

Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: bloomas
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Why the rebuilds?



----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Wright
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Why the rebuilds?
Ryan Not a good idea to power wash the radiator not if but when you brake the
cooling fins off you will be buying a new core.five years ago it coast me $1,800
bucks for the core.
Bob Loomas 1985 PT 36

Dan, I just bought my PT-40 a few months back and I had the same
question you have. Just too many rebuilds sitting around out there -
are these bad engines, or what? Here's what I found: Every coach ad
that interested me but had a rebuild, I contacted the owner and asked
why. Every one of them had been overheated.

So, there's your answer. Don't overheat the engine and it should last
you a long time. Keep up on maintenance - coolant, oil, filter
changes, etc, etc. Watch your gauges. The 8V92 will pull a hill like a
bat out of hell if you tell it to, but that doesn't make it OK. Also,
from what I was told, the slobber tubes discharge oil which tends to
fly around the engine compartment and often gets sucked through the
radiator, clogging it up and reducing cooling capacity. Keep your
radiator clean (I power-washed mine when I got the coach home, even
though it was already clean).

When you stop, look things over. Every time I pull into a rest area,
or stop for lunch, etc, I turn the high idle on and let the engine run
for a few minutes to cool down - while this is happening I take a walk
around the coach and check things out. This way I have an opportunity
to hear, see and smell a nice hot engine while it's running, and just
generally check the coach over, look at the tires, etc. Make this
walk-around a habit so you can really be "in tune" with your coach.
When you can start to feel how she's behaving, you'll be able to catch
problems before they turn into disasters.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92
Tri-Cities, WA

On 9/3/07, bingomaster05 >
wrote:
> I am new to your forum, and plan on purchasing a Wanderlodge within the
> next two years. I feel that a used "Bird" is better than most new
> coaches on the market. But here is the question: If a diesel engine is
> capable of up to a million miles, why do so many units I have found
> listed for sale have rebuilt engines? Most of these units have just
> slightly over 100,000 miles. Is this mainly due to being poorly
> maintained and general neglect, or the fact that they sit for extended
> periods of time. I see units with about 100,000 miles and think they
> are hardly broken in, yet they may need rebuilt, it will make it harder
> to know what to choose. Thanks alot..this is a great site.
>
> Dan Thomas
> PT 40 (soon)
> Central PA
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]