Update on My Reno Status - My 3 Choices....

[Andy Coleman]

Hello All -

Thanks so much for all your wonderful responses. I have a lot to think
about this weekend!

My engine rolled over 100K miles during the trip. It now has about 104K
miles on it. One of the reasons I was hoping the bottom end would be
fine.

Thank you Harry for noticeing the small type on Rhino's warrentee. If
they don't guarantee their motors in an RV, then their is no reason to
even consider them.

Every piece of advice I have received in the past week has been to only
install CAT rebuilt engines with warrentees nationwide. I can see how
important that is!

Lots to think about! Thanks everyone!

Andy Coleman
83' FC-35
Spring Lake Hts., NJ


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "hsaddock"
wrote:
>
> Andy:
> I did a little checking on Rhino's Warranty and determined that they
> specifically exclude Class A, B and C motor homes from their coverage
> (see the PDF section of their website). In addition, I have not had
> good experience with replacement engines from these mass production
> engine overhaul shops. It took me three tries to get a good engine
> in my Ford Bronco a few years ago and they never ended up giving me
> one $ for the labor to replace the engine twice (it was not Rhino, it
> was Recon).
>
> Now the what to do's…. Dan's suggestion is a good one if you can
> leave it where it is long enough (it will take a while to find the
> right buyer), I know of several gents who have bought BB's with dead
> engines and are running them today, or if you really would like a
> different style/year coach. You will take a hit on price for a dead
> bird vs a live one. Also, I'm sure you have run up some significant
> labor/towing costs at the current shop that would most likely be lost
> by a sale to another. With the price difference between option 1 and
> 2, option 2 wins hands down and as a minimum extra (also recommended
> by Howard), install new main and rod bearings, oil pump, maybe some
> injector/pump work if needed and replace the rear main seal. This
> should put you in the 11-13K range (I'm guessing, get a quote!) and
> provide you with a decent shot of some long term running and
> enjoyment of the machine. However, this is not a sure bet that your
> engine problems are behind you, especially if the engine was
> seriously overheated and will not significantly increase the sale
> ability or value of your coach – it's an expensive albeit
"thorough"
> repair job.
>
> In MY opinion, the best option for the coach long term is to have a
> CAT re-manufactured engine installed for the you – It will
increase
> the coaches re–sell ability, reliability (of the engine that is ),
> and a true nationwide warranty that will truly work if/when you need
> it.
>
> Now comes the economics – big difference between $11-13K and
$20.4K,
> since you're not going to be selling in the next 10 years or so, it's
> really about what you can afford to do and still put diesel in the
> beast vs your piece of mind – the repair approach is not bad,
should
> be much better and more reliable that when you bought the coach
> (unless there is hidden damage). If you were to sell within the next
> year or so, a CAT remanufactured engine still under warranty is a big
> plus. Is it a $7-9K plus? Only time would tell but I would pay the
> extra.
>
> Good Luck – let us know how you make out!
> Harry Saddock
> 83FC35
> South Windsor, CT
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" danusa@ wrote:
> >
> > Andy, a third choice would be sell the coach to someone who wants
> to repair it and buy another wanderlodge.
> > Dan
> > 88WB38
> > Jackson, MS
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Andy Coleman
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 1:56 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Update on My Reno Status - My 3
> Choices....
> >
> >
> > Fellow Wanderlodgers:
> >
> > Just got off the phone with my mechanic in Reno today. As he had
> > promised me, he removed the heads on both sides of my 3208 motor
> and
> > inspected the top end. Being on a stand, it is now much easier to
> do.
> >
> > On the side of the engine that blew the head gasket, he said
> there was
> > anti-freeze staining on the inside of all four cylinders. He said
> he
> > could probably removed the staining with a very fine emory cloth.
> He
> > inspected the head gasket, and noted that it had probably been
> going
> > bad for some time. It didn't just blow from my trip. The head was
> > etched from antifreeze going places it should not have. He
> > recommended that I have the head rebuilt. He said it was also
> > possible that I had some antifreeze leakage without knowing it. I
> > changed the oil before leaving for my trip - and noticed nothing
> unusual.
> >
> > The head on the other side appeared fine, so did the cylinders and
> > gasket. He recommended that since I have the engine out, I might
> want
> > to go ahead and rebuild that head too, and of course replace the
> > gasket on that side.
> >
> > He also told me to consider installing a new re-man 3208. With the
> > engine already out and all the parts and labor required to re-
> build my
> > old one, he said it was something to consider. When I told him
> that I
> > plan to keep my FC for another 10+ years, he seemed to recommend
> this
> > option more.
> >
> > The service supervisor ran some numbers and boiled it down to
> three
> > options for me. Brace yourself!
> >
> > 1. Install 2 new head gaskets & put the engine back together -
> total
> > cost $8,100.00.
> >
> > 2. Install 2 reman heads and gaskets. Put the engine back
> together.
> > Total cost $9,700.00.
> >
> > 3. Install a cat re-man (and warrented) engine and put everything
> > back together. Total cost $20,400. The engine itself - $11,750.00.
> >
> > I did some engine research weeks ago when I first had my problem.
> I
> > found that the Rhino engines
> > http://www.rhinoengines.com/caterpillar3208engines.htm re-mans a
> 3208
> > for under $7,000.00. 24-month unlimited nationwide warrentee. The
> > service guy told me they had two bad experiences with Rhino
> engines in
> > the past, and would not install them. They have a manufacturer in
> > California called Ariva (Sp?) that they buy re-man engines from.
> It
> > would cost me around $9,700.00, but not have the full nationwide
> > warrentee a Cat re-man does. They don't purchase engines from any
> > other re-man firms.
> >
> > I asked the service guy if he could send my existing heads to a
> > machine shop to be re-built, over buying two new re-man ones. He
> said
> > they could, but of course had no idea what that would cost.
> >
> > Well, there you have it... The decision that I must make in the
> next
> > few days... I am leaning towards #2, and sending my two heads off
> to
> > be re-built at a machine shop. If they are not in too bad shape,
> it
> > might cost me less than buying two re-man ones.
> >
> > I'm also basing my decision on the performance of the engine so
> far -
> > it did not even burn a quart of oil on the first 5,000 miles of my
> > trip! It ran smooth, sounded really good, had plenty of power
> (for a
> > 250 HP turbo 3208), and did not smoke.
> >
> > I'm sharing all the ugly details of my experience with all of you
> in
> > the hopes it might benefit somebody in the future. I also would
> like
> > to hear if you guys agree with my choice of #2. And of course, I'm
> > bracing myself to hear "you are being ripped off" responses.
> >
> > Thank you all for the many offers of advice and sympathy. If I
> didn't
> > have this list to consult and vent, I don't know what I would do!
> >
> > Andy Coleman
> > 83' FC-35 250 HP Turbo 3208
> > Spring Lake, NJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date:
> 9/14/2007 8:59 AM
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Dan]

Andy, to help you make your decision you might take an oil analysis of you
engine and look for any indications of abnormal wear.If you do it I would be
interested in the numbers. It is cheap, about ten dollars.

Dan Williams
88pt38
Jackson, ms
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Coleman
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Update on My Reno Status - My 3 Choices....


Hello All -

Thanks so much for all your wonderful responses. I have a lot to think
about this weekend!

My engine rolled over 100K miles during the trip. It now has about 104K
miles on it. One of the reasons I was hoping the bottom end would be
fine.

Thank you Harry for noticeing the small type on Rhino's warrentee. If
they don't guarantee their motors in an RV, then their is no reason to
even consider them.

Every piece of advice I have received in the past week has been to only
install CAT rebuilt engines with warrentees nationwide. I can see how
important that is!

Lots to think about! Thanks everyone!

Andy Coleman
83' FC-35
Spring Lake Hts., NJ

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "hsaddock"
wrote:
>
> Andy:
> I did a little checking on Rhino's Warranty and determined that they
> specifically exclude Class A, B and C motor homes from their coverage
> (see the PDF section of their website). In addition, I have not had
> good experience with replacement engines from these mass production
> engine overhaul shops. It took me three tries to get a good engine
> in my Ford Bronco a few years ago and they never ended up giving me
> one $ for the labor to replace the engine twice (it was not Rhino, it
> was Recon).
>
> Now the what to do's.. Dan's suggestion is a good one if you can
> leave it where it is long enough (it will take a while to find the
> right buyer), I know of several gents who have bought BB's with dead
> engines and are running them today, or if you really would like a
> different style/year coach. You will take a hit on price for a dead
> bird vs a live one. Also, I'm sure you have run up some significant
> labor/towing costs at the current shop that would most likely be lost
> by a sale to another. With the price difference between option 1 and
> 2, option 2 wins hands down and as a minimum extra (also recommended
> by Howard), install new main and rod bearings, oil pump, maybe some
> injector/pump work if needed and replace the rear main seal. This
> should put you in the 11-13K range (I'm guessing, get a quote!) and
> provide you with a decent shot of some long term running and
> enjoyment of the machine. However, this is not a sure bet that your
> engine problems are behind you, especially if the engine was
> seriously overheated and will not significantly increase the sale
> ability or value of your coach - it's an expensive albeit
"thorough"
> repair job.
>
> In MY opinion, the best option for the coach long term is to have a
> CAT re-manufactured engine installed for the you - It will
increase
> the coaches re-sell ability, reliability (of the engine that is ),
> and a true nationwide warranty that will truly work if/when you need
> it.
>
> Now comes the economics - big difference between $11-13K and
$20.4K,
> since you're not going to be selling in the next 10 years or so, it's
> really about what you can afford to do and still put diesel in the
> beast vs your piece of mind - the repair approach is not bad,
should
> be much better and more reliable that when you bought the coach
> (unless there is hidden damage). If you were to sell within the next
> year or so, a CAT remanufactured engine still under warranty is a big
> plus. Is it a $7-9K plus? Only time would tell but I would pay the
> extra.
>
> Good Luck - let us know how you make out!
> Harry Saddock
> 83FC35
> South Windsor, CT
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" danusa@ wrote:
> >
> > Andy, a third choice would be sell the coach to someone who wants
> to repair it and buy another wanderlodge.
> > Dan
> > 88WB38
> > Jackson, MS
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Andy Coleman
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 1:56 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Update on My Reno Status - My 3
> Choices....
> >
> >
> > Fellow Wanderlodgers:
> >
> > Just got off the phone with my mechanic in Reno today. As he had
> > promised me, he removed the heads on both sides of my 3208 motor
> and
> > inspected the top end. Being on a stand, it is now much easier to
> do.
> >
> > On the side of the engine that blew the head gasket, he said
> there was
> > anti-freeze staining on the inside of all four cylinders. He said
> he
> > could probably removed the staining with a very fine emory cloth.
> He
> > inspected the head gasket, and noted that it had probably been
> going
> > bad for some time. It didn't just blow from my trip. The head was
> > etched from antifreeze going places it should not have. He
> > recommended that I have the head rebuilt. He said it was also
> > possible that I had some antifreeze leakage without knowing it. I
> > changed the oil before leaving for my trip - and noticed nothing
> unusual.
> >
> > The head on the other side appeared fine, so did the cylinders and
> > gasket. He recommended that since I have the engine out, I might
> want
> > to go ahead and rebuild that head too, and of course replace the
> > gasket on that side.
> >
> > He also told me to consider installing a new re-man 3208. With the
> > engine already out and all the parts and labor required to re-
> build my
> > old one, he said it was something to consider. When I told him
> that I
> > plan to keep my FC for another 10+ years, he seemed to recommend
> this
> > option more.
> >
> > The service supervisor ran some numbers and boiled it down to
> three
> > options for me. Brace yourself!
> >
> > 1. Install 2 new head gaskets & put the engine back together -
> total
> > cost $8,100.00.
> >
> > 2. Install 2 reman heads and gaskets. Put the engine back
> together.
> > Total cost $9,700.00.
> >
> > 3. Install a cat re-man (and warrented) engine and put everything
> > back together. Total cost $20,400. The engine itself - $11,750.00.
> >
> > I did some engine research weeks ago when I first had my problem.
> I
> > found that the Rhino engines
> > http://www.rhinoengines.com/caterpillar3208engines.htm re-mans a
> 3208
> > for under $7,000.00. 24-month unlimited nationwide warrentee. The
> > service guy told me they had two bad experiences with Rhino
> engines in
> > the past, and would not install them. They have a manufacturer in
> > California called Ariva (Sp?) that they buy re-man engines from.
> It
> > would cost me around $9,700.00, but not have the full nationwide
> > warrentee a Cat re-man does. They don't purchase engines from any
> > other re-man firms.
> >
> > I asked the service guy if he could send my existing heads to a
> > machine shop to be re-built, over buying two new re-man ones. He
> said
> > they could, but of course had no idea what that would cost.
> >
> > Well, there you have it... The decision that I must make in the
> next
> > few days... I am leaning towards #2, and sending my two heads off
> to
> > be re-built at a machine shop. If they are not in too bad shape,
> it
> > might cost me less than buying two re-man ones.
> >
> > I'm also basing my decision on the performance of the engine so
> far -
> > it did not even burn a quart of oil on the first 5,000 miles of my
> > trip! It ran smooth, sounded really good, had plenty of power
> (for a
> > 250 HP turbo 3208), and did not smoke.
> >
> > I'm sharing all the ugly details of my experience with all of you
> in
> > the hopes it might benefit somebody in the future. I also would
> like
> > to hear if you guys agree with my choice of #2. And of course, I'm
> > bracing myself to hear "you are being ripped off" responses.
> >
> > Thank you all for the many offers of advice and sympathy. If I
> didn't
> > have this list to consult and vent, I don't know what I would do!
> >
> > Andy Coleman
> > 83' FC-35 250 HP Turbo 3208
> > Spring Lake, NJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date:
> 9/14/2007 8:59 AM
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date: 9/14/2007
8:59 AM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[M Thomas Eastham]

I haven't done a cummins repower (yet). There are lots of school
buses around here coming up for auction with the 5.9L mounted up
front. Most are early 90's. Fitment would be no problem. Motor
mounts would probably have to be moved... and you may need a custom
drive shaft if you have a retarder. or just sell the retarder,
install a jake brake. mmmmmm :-) yummy

I'd be concerned that the 8.3L would be too large to fit in the front
of an FC.

Since I intend to keep my 83' FC35 forever I will be doing this
someday. I almost look forward to engine trouble... almost

Here's the economies I see:

$4000 Running Bird School Bus at auction
$700 Pull engine out of school bus (20hrs) ( I can get good
mechanics at $35 an hour cash... )
-$1000 Sell rest of bus for scrap (maybe use rear end if gearing is
better?)
$700 Pull engine out of FC35 (20hrs)
-$1500 Sell CAT 3208 core
$3000 Driveshaft, fab work, motor mounts, hoses, new jake brake, etc
-$3500 Pull retarder and sell it
$3000 Rebuild cummins (20hrs + head work, parts)
$3000 rebuild trans (send it out) ? don't know the cost on this
$1400 Install cummins (40hrs)

Total estimate with labor $9800 now pad the number by $5000.
Say $15000 total.


I move heavy equipment across the country two to three times a
month. I use http://www.getloaded.com to find trucks that are
repositioning and willing to accept loads at reduced rates. I think
the Bird in Reno could be moved for less than $2/mile with a little
patience and a LOT of phone work.

Thomas Eastham
Houston, TX
83' FC35
84' FC33 with large hole where 3208 used to live.





Thomas Eastham

Anitel Investments, LLC
2305 Lyons Ave.
Houston, TX 77020

email: thomase@...
web: http://www.houstonheavy.com
cell: 713-851-9693
fax: 713-228-3019




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[birdshill123]

Thomas: What about dog house mods? Have you taken any measurements to
see if the 2 extra cylinders will fit (v8 to strt. 6) Are the early
90's 5.9 electronic? Have you allowed for some odifications to the 5.9
to bring up the HP. Most of the early models are underpowered in stock
form. Sure does sound interesting. There are a number of people who
have repowered 454 and 440 powered MH's with the 5.9. They normally use
a donor Dodge PU that is non electronic. However these MH's are not as
heavy as BB and the dog house has lots of room.

Bruce
1988 FC35

[Dan]

Bruce, With the price of diesel being a lot more than unleaded regular I wonder
if it might be cheaper per mile to go from diesel to gas. Do you know of any V8
or V10 that is close to the 3208?
Dan Williams
1988PT38

----- Original Message -----
From: birdshill123
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Update on My Reno Status - My 3 Choices....


Thomas: What about dog house mods? Have you taken any measurements to
see if the 2 extra cylinders will fit (v8 to strt. 6) Are the early
90's 5.9 electronic? Have you allowed for some odifications to the 5.9
to bring up the HP. Most of the early models are underpowered in stock
form. Sure does sound interesting. There are a number of people who
have repowered 454 and 440 powered MH's with the 5.9. They normally use
a donor Dodge PU that is non electronic. However these MH's are not as
heavy as BB and the dog house has lots of room.

Bruce
1988 FC35






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.21/1010 - Release Date: 9/15/2007
7:54 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[birdshill123]

Dan :

I dont know about you but I would never go back to a gas engine. I
suppose one of the new big v 10 Fords or the 8.1 Chev might work but
they still wont have the torque of a diesel. Then there is the problem
of adapting the trans. No way that the GM or Ford trannie would move a
BB down the road. They are also very large engines. There are other gas
choices from IHC as well. Not for me.

Bruce
1988 FC 35

[dspithaler@...]

Bob What happened to the old Cat & how many miles did it have on it
Don
89 SP 36'
Butler, PA

Andy
I had a cat remanufactured engine, with 2 year warrentee, installed
receintly in my 90SP36. Everything including a new turbo (300hp) and a
new radiator was under 20K--only just. It was at the Clevland Brothers
shop in New Stanton, PA. I think the engine componet was around 7K.
Good luck--I love my new engine.
Bob Criss
90SP36
Pittsburgh







************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[crissrace]

Andy
I had a cat remanufactured engine, with 2 year warrentee, installed
receintly in my 90SP36. Everything including a new turbo (300hp) and a
new radiator was under 20K--only just. It was at the Clevland Brothers
shop in New Stanton, PA. I think the engine componet was around 7K.
Good luck--I love my new engine.
Bob Criss
90SP36
Pittsburgh

[Dan]

Bruce, the numbers on the ford are 6.8 liters 362hp and 457 torque. It just
seems to me that the 3208 is an obsolete 70's motor and even after being rebuilt
it is still an obsolete 70's motor. I know some vehicles are worth more with
the original engine but if I had the engine out of my FC I would seriously want
to put something in with modern technology. Unfortunately, my 3208 is in great
shape and will probably outlive me. Secondly, I don't understand why the length
is a limiting factor because the only thing in the way is the radiator and it
seems like that could be moved forward even if it changed the appearance of the
front. What do you think.

Dan
81FC
Jackson, MS
----- Original Message -----
From: birdshill123
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Update on My Reno Status - My 3 Choices....


Dan :

I dont know about you but I would never go back to a gas engine. I
suppose one of the new big v 10 Fords or the 8.1 Chev might work but
they still wont have the torque of a diesel. Then there is the problem
of adapting the trans. No way that the GM or Ford trannie would move a
BB down the road. They are also very large engines. There are other gas
choices from IHC as well. Not for me.

Bruce
1988 FC 35






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.21/1010 - Release Date: 9/15/2007
7:54 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[birdshill123]

DFan:

Did you see the unit that as featured as Bird of the week some time
ago? The owners were super talented and had swapped a newer diesel. Dog
ghouse was huge. I dont know about your FC but in my 88 I doubt the rad
could be moved forward without major modifications. Anything is
possible!!

Bruce
1988 FC35