Comments needed on a Bluebird puller conversion

[Jim March]

Hi all.

There's an EBay bus that failed to meet reserve and is now open, I can
get it for $13k:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...=1&ss\
pagename=S
TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...d=1&s\
spagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1>


It turns out the thing is exactly 6'4" tall inside, which means a lot to
me 'cuz that's my height. (It's some sort of "adult model" versus
skoolie maybe.) It's taller inside than most 70's vintage Wanderlodges.

One of my main goals is to end up with a "mini garage" the width of the
bus and 6" or so long (adding to the bus length). I could have such a
full 6' long (by 8' wide) garage "tacked on" no problem with this thing
given it's current short length (29' and minimal rear overhang -
stretch it to 35' and it would be just like a 35' Wanderlodge in terms
of drivability. This would net me the best possible garage and living
layout in a 35ft overall platform.

I *really* like that.

Flaws: tachometer doesn't work (all other gauges do thank God) and the
fridge is wonky (maybe an easy fix, maybe not). It also needs a better
battery bank and inverter/charger but that's a given with any older
conversion or even a Wanderlodge in my opinion. The propane genset is
mediocre.

The biggest real flaw to me is that the milage is only about 8mpg and
according to the owner, does that regardless of standalone or towing up
to the 6,000lb he regularly pulls. Top speed is 72, it's more
comfortable around 62 - 65. As it was probably a gasser at one point,
odds are the rear axle gears haven't been changed (5.36 per frame tag)
and the Cummins in front of an Allison 4sp is almost certainly straining
(maybe even over-revving?).

So...first, does anybody know exactly which motor this might be and know
anything about it's reliability?

Second, am I right in thinking this bus would benefit big from 4.11 or
so gears in the rear?

Third, would I be better off with a gearvendors thingie behind the
tranny, or just swap the rear end gearing?

The bus is currently at 20,000lbs and I doubt I'd be adding more than
2,500 complete with add-on box in the rear (aluminum tube frame,
aluminum skin), better batteries and a bike. What are the odds I'll be
able to nudge 10mpg with gearing changes?

Any other comments about this puppy?

My alternative is to hollow out the back bedroom of a 4104 or similar
into a garage (with side hatch) or empty the rear bedroom of a 35'
Wanderlodge FC and either way turn the front couch into a dedicated bed
with pillows for daytime "couch use". That gives me a smaller main bed,
less choices for guest bed, etc. This Bluebird 29' does have a
queen-size rear bedroom (a bit tight, but decent) and a pretty good
overall front living area, and THEN I'd add a garage without messing
with any of that.

Anybody know anything about this drivetrain and gearing options?

Jim

[Ken Sann]

In Cummins, the 5.9 is most likely the 6BT-5.9. If it is aftercooled it is the
6BTA-5.9.
(6= cylinders, 'B' =engine series, 'T' = turbo, 'A' = aftercooled, 5.9 =
displacement)
A very common engine, typically rated at 160hp without the aftercooler.
These were common in many medium duty trucks, and in many late 80's motorhomes.
but the vast majority were aftercooled, from 175+ hp. This engine later gained a
24valve head and was renamed 9with many other upgrades) the 'ISC'.




ken
Wannabe in SoCal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim March
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
So...first, does anybody know exactly which motor this might be and know
anything about it's reliability?
Anybody know anything about this drivetrain and gearing options?

Jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[randydupree]

dude,just buy it!!!VBG!! randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim March
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:11 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Comments needed on a Bluebird puller conversion


Hi all.

There's an EBay bus that failed to meet reserve and is now open, I can
get it for $13k:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...=1&ss\
pagename=S
TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...d=1&s\
spagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1>


It turns out the thing is exactly 6'4" tall inside, which means a lot to
me 'cuz that's my height. (It's some sort of "adult model" versus
skoolie maybe.) It's taller inside than most 70's vintage Wanderlodges.

One of my main goals is to end up with a "mini garage" the width of the
bus and 6" or so long (adding to the bus length). I could have such a
full 6' long (by 8' wide) garage "tacked on" no problem with this thing
given it's current short length (29' and minimal rear overhang -
stretch it to 35' and it would be just like a 35' Wanderlodge in terms
of drivability. This would net me the best possible garage and living
layout in a 35ft overall platform.

I *really* like that.

Flaws: tachometer doesn't work (all other gauges do thank God) and the
fridge is wonky (maybe an easy fix, maybe not). It also needs a better
battery bank and inverter/charger but that's a given with any older
conversion or even a Wanderlodge in my opinion. The propane genset is
mediocre.

The biggest real flaw to me is that the milage is only about 8mpg and
according to the owner, does that regardless of standalone or towing up
to the 6,000lb he regularly pulls. Top speed is 72, it's more
comfortable around 62 - 65. As it was probably a gasser at one point,
odds are the rear axle gears haven't been changed (5.36 per frame tag)
and the Cummins in front of an Allison 4sp is almost certainly straining
(maybe even over-revving?).

So...first, does anybody know exactly which motor this might be and know
anything about it's reliability?

Second, am I right in thinking this bus would benefit big from 4.11 or
so gears in the rear?

Third, would I be better off with a gearvendors thingie behind the
tranny, or just swap the rear end gearing?

The bus is currently at 20,000lbs and I doubt I'd be adding more than
2,500 complete with add-on box in the rear (aluminum tube frame,
aluminum skin), better batteries and a bike. What are the odds I'll be
able to nudge 10mpg with gearing changes?

Any other comments about this puppy?

My alternative is to hollow out the back bedroom of a 4104 or similar
into a garage (with side hatch) or empty the rear bedroom of a 35'
Wanderlodge FC and either way turn the front couch into a dedicated bed
with pillows for daytime "couch use". That gives me a smaller main bed,
less choices for guest bed, etc. This Bluebird 29' does have a
queen-size rear bedroom (a bit tight, but decent) and a pretty good
overall front living area, and THEN I'd add a garage without messing
with any of that.

Anybody know anything about this drivetrain and gearing options?

Jim


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Blair]

Are you feeling ok?

At 06:35 PM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
>dude,just buy it!!!VBG!! randydupree93wb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim March
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:11 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Comments needed on a Bluebird puller conversion
>
>
> Hi all.
>
> There's an EBay bus that failed to meet reserve and is now open, I can
> get it for $13k:
>
>
><http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...rd=1&\
sspagename=S>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...45439\
18765&rd=1&sspagename=S
>
> TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
>
><<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...&rd=1\
&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dl\
l?ViewItem&item=4543918765&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1>
>
>
>
> It turns out the thing is exactly 6'4" tall inside, which means a lot to
> me 'cuz that's my height. (It's some sort of "adult model" versus
> skoolie maybe.) It's taller inside than most 70's vintage Wanderlodges.
>
> One of my main goals is to end up with a "mini garage" the width of the
> bus and 6" or so long (adding to the bus length). I could have such a
> full 6' long (by 8' wide) garage "tacked on" no problem with this thing
> given it's current short length (29' and minimal rear overhang -
> stretch it to 35' and it would be just like a 35' Wanderlodge in terms
> of drivability. This would net me the best possible garage and living
> layout in a 35ft overall platform.
>
> I *really* like that.
>
> Flaws: tachometer doesn't work (all other gauges do thank God) and the
> fridge is wonky (maybe an easy fix, maybe not). It also needs a better
> battery bank and inverter/charger but that's a given with any older
> conversion or even a Wanderlodge in my opinion. The propane genset is
> mediocre.
>
> The biggest real flaw to me is that the milage is only about 8mpg and
> according to the owner, does that regardless of standalone or towing up
> to the 6,000lb he regularly pulls. Top speed is 72, it's more
> comfortable around 62 - 65. As it was probably a gasser at one point,
> odds are the rear axle gears haven't been changed (5.36 per frame tag)
> and the Cummins in front of an Allison 4sp is almost certainly straining
> (maybe even over-revving?).
>
> So...first, does anybody know exactly which motor this might be and know
> anything about it's reliability?
>
> Second, am I right in thinking this bus would benefit big from 4.11 or
> so gears in the rear?
>
> Third, would I be better off with a gearvendors thingie behind the
> tranny, or just swap the rear end gearing?
>
> The bus is currently at 20,000lbs and I doubt I'd be adding more than
> 2,500 complete with add-on box in the rear (aluminum tube frame,
> aluminum skin), better batteries and a bike. What are the odds I'll be
> able to nudge 10mpg with gearing changes?
>
> Any other comments about this puppy?
>
> My alternative is to hollow out the back bedroom of a 4104 or similar
> into a garage (with side hatch) or empty the rear bedroom of a 35'
> Wanderlodge FC and either way turn the front couch into a dedicated bed
> with pillows for daytime "couch use". That gives me a smaller main bed,
> less choices for guest bed, etc. This Bluebird 29' does have a
> queen-size rear bedroom (a bit tight, but decent) and a pretty good
> overall front living area, and THEN I'd add a garage without messing
> with any of that.
>
> Anybody know anything about this drivetrain and gearing options?
>
> Jim
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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WanderlodgeForum/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[randydupree]

its also used in all the dodge diesel trucks,with some tweaking up to 350 hp
easy..randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Sann
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Comments needed on a Bluebird puller
conversion


In Cummins, the 5.9 is most likely the 6BT-5.9. If it is aftercooled it is the
6BTA-5.9.
(6= cylinders, 'B' =engine series, 'T' = turbo, 'A' = aftercooled, 5.9 =
displacement)
A very common engine, typically rated at 160hp without the aftercooler.
These were common in many medium duty trucks, and in many late 80's
motorhomes. but the vast majority were aftercooled, from 175+ hp. This engine
later gained a 24valve head and was renamed 9with many other upgrades) the
'ISC'.




ken
Wannabe in SoCal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim March
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
So...first, does anybody know exactly which motor this might be and know
anything about it's reliability?
Anybody know anything about this drivetrain and gearing options?

Jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jim March]

Ken Sann wrote:

> In Cummins, the 5.9 is most likely the 6BT-5.9. If it is aftercooled
> it is the 6BTA-5.9.
> (6= cylinders, 'B' =engine series, 'T' = turbo, 'A' = aftercooled, 5.9
> = displacement)
> A very common engine, typically rated at 160hp without the aftercooler.
> These were common in many medium duty trucks, and in many late 80's
> motorhomes. but the vast majority were aftercooled, from 175+ hp. This
> engine later gained a 24valve head and was renamed 9with many other
> upgrades) the 'ISC'.


OK, cool, that's a start. We know it's not aftercooled (meaning an
intake air cooler between the turbo and intake manifold, right?) because
we can see a straight shot pipe from turbo to intake in one of the pics.

As best we can tell the repower was done circa 1982 or so.

So assuming it's a 6BT, is that a decent mill?

What's it's likely redline?

What are the odds it's being overreved by the 5.36 rear end?

After having written the above, I did some googling. Found this site in
reference to the marine version:

http://www.tadiesels.com/cu-6bt5-9-m.html

From there there's a power/torque/fuel use set of curves:

http://www.tadiesels.com/releases/Cummin...rmance.pdf

It's dead clear that if I can keep it down near 1900 - 2000rpm at least
on the flats it'll be WAY happier.

Jim

> ken
> Wannabe in SoCal
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim March
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> So...first, does anybody know exactly which motor this might be and
> know
> anything about it's reliability?
> Anybody know anything about this drivetrain and gearing options?
>
> Jim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>

>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

[randydupree]

these engines go 300,000 miles easy..randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim March
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Comments needed on a Bluebird puller
conversion


Ken Sann wrote:

> In Cummins, the 5.9 is most likely the 6BT-5.9. If it is aftercooled
> it is the 6BTA-5.9.
> (6= cylinders, 'B' =engine series, 'T' = turbo, 'A' = aftercooled, 5.9
> = displacement)
> A very common engine, typically rated at 160hp without the aftercooler.
> These were common in many medium duty trucks, and in many late 80's
> motorhomes. but the vast majority were aftercooled, from 175+ hp. This
> engine later gained a 24valve head and was renamed 9with many other
> upgrades) the 'ISC'.


OK, cool, that's a start. We know it's not aftercooled (meaning an
intake air cooler between the turbo and intake manifold, right?) because
we can see a straight shot pipe from turbo to intake in one of the pics.

As best we can tell the repower was done circa 1982 or so.

So assuming it's a 6BT, is that a decent mill?

What's it's likely redline?

What are the odds it's being overreved by the 5.36 rear end?

After having written the above, I did some googling. Found this site in
reference to the marine version:

http://www.tadiesels.com/cu-6bt5-9-m.html

From there there's a power/torque/fuel use set of curves:

http://www.tadiesels.com/releases/Cummin...rmance.pdf

It's dead clear that if I can keep it down near 1900 - 2000rpm at least
on the flats it'll be WAY happier.

Jim

> ken
> Wannabe in SoCal
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim March
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> So...first, does anybody know exactly which motor this might be and
> know
> anything about it's reliability?
> Anybody know anything about this drivetrain and gearing options?
>
> Jim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>

>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[dthollis1961]

Jim,

It's a great engine, but I don't see how you could go faster than 55
MPH or so with those gears though with 2500 or 2600 RPM redline.
When
Dodge started putting them into their pick-ups, they had to have 3.07
gearing with the automatic(no overdrive then) just so they could be
run on the highway. There is a speed/RPM chart on the vintagebird
site to give you an idea.

David Hollis 78 FC33 Springfield,IL 64 MPH


> What's it's likely redline?
>
> What are the odds it's being overreved by the 5.36 rear end?
>

[Jim March]

dthollis1961 wrote:

> Jim,
>
> It's a great engine, but I don't see how you could go faster than 55
> MPH or so with those gears though with 2500 or 2600 RPM redline.
> When
> Dodge started putting them into their pick-ups, they had to have 3.07
> gearing with the automatic(no overdrive then) just so they could be
> run on the highway. There is a speed/RPM chart on the vintagebird
> site to give you an idea.


Dang. You're right.

Either this thing has a radical overdrive on the Allison (gearvendors
and the current owner doesn't know how to take it off overdrive?!) or
the rear end HAS to have been changed.

Sigh. And with no tach, no way of knowing if it was re-geared "right".

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Jim

[randydupree]

did you say 13 grand? lots of money left over to change it! randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim March
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Comments needed on a Bluebird puller
conversion


dthollis1961 wrote:

> Jim,
>
> It's a great engine, but I don't see how you could go faster than 55
> MPH or so with those gears though with 2500 or 2600 RPM redline.
> When
> Dodge started putting them into their pick-ups, they had to have 3.07
> gearing with the automatic(no overdrive then) just so they could be
> run on the highway. There is a speed/RPM chart on the vintagebird
> site to give you an idea.


Dang. You're right.

Either this thing has a radical overdrive on the Allison (gearvendors
and the current owner doesn't know how to take it off overdrive?!) or
the rear end HAS to have been changed.

Sigh. And with no tach, no way of knowing if it was re-geared "right".

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Jim


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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]