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10-11-2007, 02:13

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
wrote:
>
> Thanks Eric, All this vehicle stuff is open to debate. I was just
> thinking it's like changing oil on cars. I tend to go with a
> conservative approach in this as well. Better too often rather then

Being a yankee, I tend to use up, wear out stuff. Be it crankcase oil,
fuel in my tank or Whiskey in the keg.
Tires that are 7 years old are used up, toss them out and don't look
back.
I lost 3 of 4 on one trip! 8 year old Firestones. They looked 100% on
the rig.

Pete

10-11-2007, 03:06

Folks,

With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil
wrote for the DieselRvs group:

------------------------cut here--------------------------------

--------------------------cut here------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM
To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires

For all of those following this very important forum thread re: tire ageing
I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire design/product
support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer.

Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know rubber ages and
deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER! The life
expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In this case we
are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The difficulty
of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great degree on how
the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire exposed to the
rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the presence of
high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life. Similarly, a tire
operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively short life.
Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor maintenance
practices will also adversely affect the tire life.

Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using a process
called "vulcanization", this process is promoted by both a chemical reaction
and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a tacky soft
material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing in our
tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the chemical
action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the life of the
tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we observe in our
RV tires.

In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a longer
carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high percentage of the
time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the rubber supple -
tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the tire is not
used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an automobile museum to
see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were restored
using new tires. After several years in a fully protected environment the
tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's somewhat
parallels this action.

RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to enhance
their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because of harmful
components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire manufacturers suggest
using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to specifically state)
that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or alcohol should
not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may be wasting
your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the tires inside,
outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and ultraviolet.
Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues.

...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways: first, the tire
is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber placed there
to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs on ...asphalt or
concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from the tires
with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or plastic.)

So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree that five to
seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you) panic and
immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year age? No.
What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become more diligent
and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you should be
especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for deterioration
or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the
atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and look for
blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely because an
unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration of the
inner liner of the tire.

If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of deterioration begin
to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires of the same
age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the opportunity to
shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very costly and
dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the road.

Neil LeKander

10-11-2007, 03:42

Lots of good information there Dave. Trying to think about this
logically is the issue. Some of these tires that I am replacing on
my bus look brand new and that is my hang up. They are ten years old
and I can't be certain as to how they were treated or used. Must have
been handled fairly well or there would be obvious signs. My
decision was finally made thinking this way: The tires look new but
are not and there could be and likely is some deterioration. Over the
period of time that I own the coach I will certainly have to change
out the tires. It may may as well be sooner then later and then I can
put that to rest. There is a "bell" curve in this with factors that
push the tire to the left or right under the curve. Even though ten
year old tires may have been shifted to the left due to proper care
and use the fact that they are ten years old shifts them firmly to
the right. Another fact is that because they look perfect today they
certainly may not look good or even acceptable in a year. Best to
just getter done.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> Folks,
>
> With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil
> wrote for the DieselRvs group:
>
> ------------------------cut here--------------------------------
>
> --------------------------cut here------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM
> To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires
>
>
>
> For all of those following this very important forum thread re:
tire ageing
> I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire
design/product
> support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer.
>
> Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know rubber
ages and
> deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER!
The life
> expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In this
case we
> are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The
difficulty
> of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great
degree on how
> the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire exposed
to the
> rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the
presence of
> high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life. Similarly,
a tire
> operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively
short life.
> Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor
maintenance
> practices will also adversely affect the tire life.
>
> Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using a
process
> called "vulcanization", this process is promoted by both a chemical
reaction
> and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a tacky
soft
> material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing
in our
> tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the
chemical
> action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the
life of the
> tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we
observe in our
> RV tires.
>
> In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a
longer
> carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high percentage
of the
> time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the rubber
supple -
> tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the
tire is not
> used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an automobile
museum to
> see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were
restored
> using new tires. After several years in a fully protected
environment the
> tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's
somewhat
> parallels this action.
>
> RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to
enhance
> their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because
of harmful
> components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire manufacturers
suggest
> using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to
specifically state)
> that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or
alcohol should
> not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may
be wasting
> your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the tires
inside,
> outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and
ultraviolet.
> Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues.
>
> ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways: first,
the tire
> is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber
placed there
> to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs
on ...asphalt or
> concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from the
tires
> with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or
plastic.)
>
> So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree that
five to
> seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you) panic
and
> immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year
age? No.
> What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become more
diligent
> and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you should
be
> especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for
deterioration
> or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the
> atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and look
for
> blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely
because an
> unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration
of the
> inner liner of the tire.
>
> If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of
deterioration begin
> to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires of
the same
> age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the
opportunity to
> shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very
costly and
> dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the road.
>
> Neil LeKander
>

10-11-2007, 09:00

We bought our most recent Bluebird in June of 2007. It had 29,750 miles on it
and had been stored in a warehouse in St Petersburg Florida for most of its
life. Lots of things needed attention because of it sitting there for so long
and Parliament Coach completed a list of 27 different items. What was not on the
list was tires , they looked perfect and it turns out they were close to perfect
except for their age. They were made in August of 1999. making them more than 8
years old. Today I replace them with 8 new BF Goodrich 12R22.5 16 ply all
position radials. $459 mounted ,balanced,new valve stems,gator caps plus local
sales tax. I found a local dump truck owner who was willing to pay $50 a piece
which reduced the cost and Callahan Tire which has 17 locations in Florida
delivered the tires to him no charge. I could have taken a chance for the next
year or so but the Florida sun and heat added to my unwillingness to put my
Family at risk justified new tires. I did not want
to say Coulda,woulda,Shoulda, after something serious happened.
Donald & Mary Anne, LX-40, Palmetto, Florida

bubblerboy64 wrote: I find
this tire subject interesting and at the same time rather
puzzling as well. How is it that some ten year old tires show "no"
sign of age and weather deterioration and others are described
as "cottage cheese" at about the same age. (And on the inside of the
tire while the outside shows no problem) Now I wouldn't expect them
all to be identical but its difficult for me to understand what the
variables are. It would be helpful to know because obviously then
perhaps action could be taken to preserve them as much as possible.
Obviously covers and proper inflation etc are important. Then there
is the question, can you really visually see what is going on. Could
you have a situation were the tires looks good on all visible
surfaces inside and out and have issues deeper within the tire? I
have to go with the prevailing wisdom on this and trust that I am
doing the right thing and not wasting money. It seems to me there is
not as much science and more religion on this then I am comfortable
with. However, certainly better safe then sorry. I have seen guys
driving tires which I swear you could see the air inside. But it is
extremely hard to throw out tires which look new isn't it?
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC

>
> Scott,
> Why didn't you ask the tire dealer to buy them off you??? When I
replaced the tires on my coach, I asked them before I made the
purchase, what would you give me for the carcass??? They told me they
would give me $50 each, I said sold!!!
> HTH
>
> Sea Ya
> Larry
> NYC
> 84 35FCSB
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Scott Forman <sforman@...>
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 8:03:50 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I left them there. Interestingly enough, they were not
the regular
>
> highway treads, but rather the deeper square "drive" treads like
one
>
> might find on a dump truck. Don't know why the previous owner had
>
> those on there, he must have got a deal at some point. Frankly, I
>
> don't care what they do with them, I just want to forget about the
>
> cost of replacing them.
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, "Jon" wrote:
>
> >
>
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, "Scott Forman"
<sforman@>
>
> > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > The tires on my tag axle were replaced today. I did so because
>
> the
>
> > DOT
>
> > > dates on them were 1994 (not 2004, 1994, as in 13 yers old).
>
> They
>
> > > showed no signs of age, cracking, anything, just old age. When
>
> > they
>
> > > came off, the insides looked absolutely fine. The tire guys
said
>
> > that
>
> > > while they agreed that changing them out based on age was
>
> > the "right"
>
> > > thing to do, if they viewed the tires without knowing the date,
>
> > they
>
> > > would approve them for use without pause. Maybe the tags just
>
> > don't
>
> > > get as much abuse and wear.
>
> > >
>
> > > Scott Forman
>
> > > 86 PT38
>
> > > Memphis
>
> >
>
> > Scott when I replaced my tires they were perfect but had a dot
date
>
> > of 1989. When I had them removed they showed no sign of wear on
>
> the
>
> > outside or on the inside as well.
>
> >
>
> > So what did you do with your old ones? I bet the tire guy just
sold
>
> > them to a re-treader and now they will be recycled to run down
the
>
> > road on a big rig.
>
> >
>
> > Maybe someday they will have some non destructive testing done on
>
> our
>
> > expensive tires to see whether or not they are need of
replacement.
>
> > But for now most us try to play it safe and replace our rubber
with
>
> > new when the magic date comes up at seven years old.
>
> >
>
> > Jon
>
> > Rebel Bird
>
> > >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
______________
> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get
listings, and more!
> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

10-12-2007, 01:22

Hi John,
I am writing to add to the many suggestions that you are receiving... I was in
the boat, that you are in now... When I bought my coach it was stored indoors,
in a heated garage for the ten years that the PO has had it... When I purchased
it, it had ten year old tires on it that looked like they were installed the
day before I looked at it... checking through the paper work that was in the
coach, as the widow did not know anything about the coach, I found that the PO
had purchased the tires 4 years prior to putting them on the coach, and being
that they are only garanteed by the manufacturer from the time they are
installed. I figureed I had at least another 2 to 3 years use in them... With
this thinking I went to Delray Beach, FL, and back, then went to Key West, FL
and back on the 10 YO tires, I thought I was doing great, when twenty miles from
my storage facility I had a blow out on the left front, luckily the blow out did
not do any damage to the
bus, except knocking off some foam insulation... I calle road service, they
came and replaced the tire and wook the tire... Then went the following week to
get 6 new BFG's for the bus, which they gave me $50 each for the 5 remaining
tires...
The tires, even the one that blew out did not have any signs of deterioration,
nothing visible...
I will never make that mistake again, thinking that because they look good that
they are OK...
Also, I always check the air and fill them up if they were low... Also stop in
road stops and thump the tires also, now I have an infrared temp tester...
I do not think that you have to justify the purchase of the new tires because
they still look good...
Tires are like books, you can't tell them by the cover!!!
HTH

Sea Ya
Larry
NYC
84 35FCSB

----- Original Message ----
From: bubblerboy64
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 11:42:38 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot....

Lots of good information there Dave. Trying to think about this
logically is the issue. Some of these tires that I am replacing on
my bus look brand new and that is my hang up. They are ten years old
and I can't be certain as to how they were treated or used. Must have
been handled fairly well or there would be obvious signs. My
decision was finally made thinking this way: The tires look new but
are not and there could be and likely is some deterioration. Over the
period of time that I own the coach I will certainly have to change
out the tires. It may may as well be sooner then later and then I can
put that to rest. There is a "bell" curve in this with factors that
push the tire to the left or right under the curve. Even though ten
year old tires may have been shifted to the left due to proper care
and use the fact that they are ten years old shifts them firmly to
the right. Another fact is that because they look perfect today they
certainly may not look good or even acceptable in a year. Best to
just getter done.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> Folks,
>
> With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil
> wrote for the DieselRvs group:
>
> ------------ --------- ---cut here-------- --------- --------- ------
>
> ------------ --------- -----cut here-------- --------- --------- ----
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@ ...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM
> To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogro ups.com
> Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires
>
>
>
> For all of those following this very important forum thread re:
tire ageing
> I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire
design/product
> support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer.
>
> Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know rubber
ages and
> deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER!
The life
> expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In this
case we
> are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The
difficulty
> of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great
degree on how
> the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire exposed
to the
> rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the
presence of
> high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life. Similarly,
a tire
> operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively
short life.
> Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor
maintenance
> practices will also adversely affect the tire life.
>
> Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using a
process
> called "vulcanization" , this process is promoted by both a chemical
reaction
> and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a tacky
soft
> material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing
in our
> tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the
chemical
> action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the
life of the
> tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we
observe in our
> RV tires.
>
> In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a
longer
> carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high percentage
of the
> time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the rubber
supple -
> tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the
tire is not
> used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an automobile
museum to
> see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were
restored
> using new tires. After several years in a fully protected
environment the
> tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's
somewhat
> parallels this action.
>
> RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to
enhance
> their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because
of harmful
> components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire manufacturers
suggest
> using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to
specifically state)
> that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or
alcohol should
> not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may
be wasting
> your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the tires
inside,
> outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and
ultraviolet.
> Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues.
>
> ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways: first,
the tire
> is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber
placed there
> to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs
on ...asphalt or
> concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from the
tires
> with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or
plastic.)
>
> So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree that
five to
> seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you) panic
and
> immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year
age? No.
> What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become more
diligent
> and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you should
be
> especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for
deterioration
> or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the
> atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and look
for
> blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely
because an
> unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration
of the
> inner liner of the tire.
>
> If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of
deterioration begin
> to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires of
the same
> age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the
opportunity to
> shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very
costly and
> dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the road.
>
> Neil LeKander
>

________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

10-12-2007, 07:59

Hi Larry, Your experience and those of others have pushed me into
making the move to six new tires (and I was only side tracked by my
dealer) When the tire dealer says a fellow doesn't need new tires a
person can get off course. It more of less gave me an excuse to go
against my better judgment, if that makes any sense. I am leaving as
soon as I finish here to check on the bus. They are checking the
wheels to see that they are going to work. The tires should be here
next week. Larry, maybe you could expand on your tire pressure
sensor device. Sounds interesting.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973FC
>
> Hi John,
> I am writing to add to the many suggestions that you are
receiving... I was in the boat, that you are in now... When I bought
my coach it was stored indoors, in a heated garage for the ten years
that the PO has had it... When I purchased it, it had ten year old
tires on it that looked like they were installed the day before I
looked at it... checking through the paper work that was in the
coach, as the widow did not know anything about the coach, I found
that the PO had purchased the tires 4 years prior to putting them on
the coach, and being that they are only garanteed by the manufacturer
from the time they are installed. I figureed I had at least another 2
to 3 years use in them... With this thinking I went to Delray Beach,
FL, and back, then went to Key West, FL and back on the 10 YO tires,
I thought I was doing great, when twenty miles from my storage
facility I had a blow out on the left front, luckily the blow out did
not do any damage to the
> bus, except knocking off some foam insulation... I calle road
service, they came and replaced the tire and wook the tire... Then
went the following week to get 6 new BFG's for the bus, which they
gave me $50 each for the 5 remaining tires...
> The tires, even the one that blew out did not have any signs of
deterioration, nothing visible...
> I will never make that mistake again, thinking that because they
look good that they are OK...
> Also, I always check the air and fill them up if they were low...
Also stop in road stops and thump the tires also, now I have an
infrared temp tester...
> I do not think that you have to justify the purchase of the new
tires because they still look good...
> Tires are like books, you can't tell them by the cover!!!
> HTH
>
> Sea Ya
> Larry
> NYC
> 84 35FCSB
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: bubblerboy64
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 11:42:38 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot....
>
> Lots of good information there Dave. Trying to think about this
> logically is the issue. Some of these tires that I am replacing on
> my bus look brand new and that is my hang up. They are ten years
old
> and I can't be certain as to how they were treated or used. Must
have
> been handled fairly well or there would be obvious signs. My
> decision was finally made thinking this way: The tires look new but
> are not and there could be and likely is some deterioration. Over
the
> period of time that I own the coach I will certainly have to change
> out the tires. It may may as well be sooner then later and then I
can
> put that to rest. There is a "bell" curve in this with factors that
> push the tire to the left or right under the curve. Even though ten
> year old tires may have been shifted to the left due to proper care
> and use the fact that they are ten years old shifts them firmly to
> the right. Another fact is that because they look perfect today
they
> certainly may not look good or even acceptable in a year. Best to
> just getter done.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil
> > wrote for the DieselRvs group:
> >
> > ------------ --------- ---cut here-------- --------- --------- ---
---
> >
> > ------------ --------- -----cut here-------- --------- --------- -
---
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@ ...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM
> > To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogro ups.com
> > Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires
> >
> >
> >
> > For all of those following this very important forum thread re:
> tire ageing
> > I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire
> design/product
> > support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer.
> >
> > Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know
rubber
> ages and
> > deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST
FOREVER!
> The life
> > expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In
this
> case we
> > are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The
> difficulty
> > of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great
> degree on how
> > the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire
exposed
> to the
> > rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the
> presence of
> > high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life.
Similarly,
> a tire
> > operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively
> short life.
> > Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor
> maintenance
> > practices will also adversely affect the tire life.
> >
> > Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using
a
> process
> > called "vulcanization" , this process is promoted by both a
chemical
> reaction
> > and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a
tacky
> soft
> > material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing
> in our
> > tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the
> chemical
> > action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the
> life of the
> > tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we
> observe in our
> > RV tires.
> >
> > In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a
> longer
> > carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high
percentage
> of the
> > time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the
rubber
> supple -
> > tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the
> tire is not
> > used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an
automobile
> museum to
> > see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were
> restored
> > using new tires. After several years in a fully protected
> environment the
> > tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's
> somewhat
> > parallels this action.
> >
> > RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to
> enhance
> > their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because
> of harmful
> > components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire
manufacturers
> suggest
> > using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to
> specifically state)
> > that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or
> alcohol should
> > not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may
> be wasting
> > your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the
tires
> inside,
> > outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and
> ultraviolet.
> > Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues.
> >
> > ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways:
first,
> the tire
> > is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber
> placed there
> > to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs
> on ...asphalt or
> > concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from
the
> tires
> > with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or
> plastic.)
> >
> > So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree
that
> five to
> > seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you)
panic
> and
> > immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year
> age? No.
> > What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become
more
> diligent
> > and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you
should
> be
> > especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for
> deterioration
> > or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the
> > atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and
look
> for
> > blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely
> because an
> > unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration
> of the
> > inner liner of the tire.
> >
> > If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of
> deterioration begin
> > to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires
of
> the same
> > age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the
> opportunity to
> > shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very
> costly and
> > dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the
road.
> >
> > Neil LeKander
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Need a vacation? Get great deals
> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

10-14-2007, 02:18

John,
The device I was referring to is not a pressure sensor, but and infrared
thermometer, to see what the temps are on the tires when you have driven for a
while... too much heat is an indication of under inflated tires...
The thermometer I have is a Fluke 561 HVAC Pro IR Thermometer...
HTH

Sea Ya
Larry
NYC
84 35FCSB

----- Original Message ----
From: bubblerboy64
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:59:29 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot....

Hi Larry, Your experience and those of others have pushed me into

making the move to six new tires (and I was only side tracked by my

dealer) When the tire dealer says a fellow doesn't need new tires a

person can get off course. It more of less gave me an excuse to go

against my better judgment, if that makes any sense. I am leaving as

soon as I finish here to check on the bus. They are checking the

wheels to see that they are going to work. The tires should be here

next week. Larry, maybe you could expand on your tire pressure

sensor device. Sounds interesting.

John Heckman

central Pa

1973FC

>

> Hi John,

> I am writing to add to the many suggestions that you are

receiving... I was in the boat, that you are in now... When I bought

my coach it was stored indoors, in a heated garage for the ten years

that the PO has had it... When I purchased it, it had ten year old

tires on it that looked like they were installed the day before I

looked at it... checking through the paper work that was in the

coach, as the widow did not know anything about the coach, I found

that the PO had purchased the tires 4 years prior to putting them on

the coach, and being that they are only garanteed by the manufacturer

from the time they are installed. I figureed I had at least another 2

to 3 years use in them... With this thinking I went to Delray Beach,

FL, and back, then went to Key West, FL and back on the 10 YO tires,

I thought I was doing great, when twenty miles from my storage

facility I had a blow out on the left front, luckily the blow out did

not do any damage to the

> bus, except knocking off some foam insulation.. . I calle road

service, they came and replaced the tire and wook the tire... Then

went the following week to get 6 new BFG's for the bus, which they

gave me $50 each for the 5 remaining tires...

> The tires, even the one that blew out did not have any signs of

deterioration, nothing visible...

> I will never make that mistake again, thinking that because they

look good that they are OK...

> Also, I always check the air and fill them up if they were low...

Also stop in road stops and thump the tires also, now I have an

infrared temp tester...

> I do not think that you have to justify the purchase of the new

tires because they still look good...

> Tires are like books, you can't tell them by the cover!!!

> HTH

>

> Sea Ya

> Larry

> NYC

> 84 35FCSB

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message ----

> From: bubblerboy64

> To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com

> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 11:42:38 AM

> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Just to stir the tire pot....

>

> Lots of good information there Dave. Trying to think about this

> logically is the issue. Some of these tires that I am replacing on

> my bus look brand new and that is my hang up. They are ten years

old

> and I can't be certain as to how they were treated or used. Must

have

> been handled fairly well or there would be obvious signs. My

> decision was finally made thinking this way: The tires look new but

> are not and there could be and likely is some deterioration. Over

the

> period of time that I own the coach I will certainly have to change

> out the tires. It may may as well be sooner then later and then I

can

> put that to rest. There is a "bell" curve in this with factors that

> push the tire to the left or right under the curve. Even though ten

> year old tires may have been shifted to the left due to proper care

> and use the fact that they are ten years old shifts them firmly to

> the right. Another fact is that because they look perfect today

they

> certainly may not look good or even acceptable in a year. Best to

> just getter done.

>

> John Heckman

> central Pa

> 1973 FC

> >

> > Folks,

> >

> > With permission from Neil, I'm cross posting this post Neil

> > wrote for the DieselRvs group:

> >

> > ------------ --------- ---cut here-------- --------- --------- ---

---

> >

> > ------------ --------- -----cut here-------- --------- --------- -

---

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Neil & Pat [mailto:undoone@ ...]

> > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:43 AM

> > To: Diesel-RVs@yahoogro ups.com

> > Subject: RE: [Diesel-RVs] Tires

> >

> >

> >

> > For all of those following this very important forum thread re:

> tire ageing

> > I offer the following from the perspective of a 36 year tire

> design/product

> > support engineer, an RV Safety author and a 32 year active RVer.

> >

> > Tires are made primarily of rubber, and we intuitively know

rubber

> ages and

> > deteriorates over time. It follows that TIRES DO NOT LAST

FOREVER!

> The life

> > expectancy of a tire in RV service is not easily predicted. In

this

> case we

> > are speaking of the casing life as opposed to the tread life. The

> difficulty

> > of this is that the life of a tire carcass depends to a great

> degree on how

> > the tires are utilized and maintained. For instance, a tire

exposed

> to the

> > rays of the sun for extended periods of time, or stored in the

> presence of

> > high levels of ozone, may have a relatively short life.

Similarly,

> a tire

> > operated near, at, or over its rating may also have a relatively

> short life.

> > Recalling that under-inflation is the same as overloading, poor

> maintenance

> > practices will also adversely affect the tire life.

> >

> > Rubber products are cured during the manufacturing process using

a

> process

> > called "vulcanization" , this process is promoted by both a

chemical

> reaction

> > and heat. During this process the rubber changes state from a

tacky

> soft

> > material to the pliable yet strong material we are used to seeing

> in our

> > tires. When the tires are removed from the heat and mold the

> chemical

> > action continues; therefore, the curing continues throughout the

> life of the

> > tire. This accounts for some of the ongoing deterioration we

> observe in our

> > RV tires.

> >

> > In fact tires operated on a regular basis will generally enjoy a

> longer

> > carcass life then tires which sit statically for a high

percentage

> of the

> > time. This is because tires contain compounds that keep the

rubber

> supple -

> > tire flexing and internal heat activates these compounds. If the

> tire is not

> > used regularly (flexed), it dries out quickly! Visit an

automobile

> museum to

> > see this principle in action. Many of the automobiles there were

> restored

> > using new tires. After several years in a fully protected

> environment the

> > tires are deteriorated and cracked. The infrequent usage of RV's

> somewhat

> > parallels this action.

> >

> > RVers commonly use chemicals to polish the sidewall of tires to

> enhance

> > their appearance. Often this causes or accelerates damage because

> of harmful

> > components contained in the "tire dressing." The tire

manufacturers

> suggest

> > using nothing but mild soap and water .. (They go on to

> specifically state)

> > that product(s) that contains petroleum products, silicon or

> alcohol should

> > not be used." ... Even with an acceptable "tire dressing" you may

> be wasting

> > your time and money because you cannot coat all areas of the

tires

> inside,

> > outside and in the tread grooves that are acted on by ozone and

> ultraviolet.

> > Meanwhile, the vulcanization process continues.

> >

> > ...storing our RVs for long periods...hurts tires two ways:

first,

> the tire

> > is not flexed regularly activating the chemicals in the rubber

> placed there

> > to retard deterioration; and second, we often park our RVs

> on ...asphalt or

> > concrete. These materials will leech those same chemicals from

the

> tires

> > with the effect of shortening its life. (Use a barrier or wood or

> plastic.)

> >

> > So how long will a tire last?...most tire manufacturers agree

that

> five to

> > seven years of age is the norm for RV service ...should (you)

panic

> and

> > immediately throw away your tires when they reach the five year

> age? No.

> > What a knowledgeable RVer should do at this point is to become

more

> diligent

> > and watchful of the tires on his/her RV. That means that you

should

> be

> > especially observant of the sidewall (both sides) looking for

> deterioration

> > or cracks, which might expose the carcass material (cords) to the

> > atmosphere. Do not forget the bottom of the tread grooves, and

look

> for

> > blisters or bulging on the sidewalls, watch air pressure closely

> because an

> > unexplained or recurring air pressure loss could be deterioration

> of the

> > inner liner of the tire.

> >

> > If any tires fails ... (or) when any of these signs of

> deterioration begin

> > to show, that is the time to go shopping (to replaces all tires

of

> the same

> > age). Hopefully, this pro-active approach will afford you the

> opportunity to

> > shop for tires in a more convenient manner and avoid the very

> costly and

> > dangerous potential of failing tires on at a time while on the

road.

> >

> > Neil LeKander

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

____________ __

> Need a vacation? Get great deals

> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

> http://travel. yahoo.com/

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



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