"Engine Preheat" vs. "Engine Heater"

[Pete Masterson]

As I watch the snow accumulate outside the window, I realize that I
have two switches that would seem to refer to the same function:

On the panel on the left above the driver's head, I have an "engine
preheat" switch with a green light that comes on when the switch is
activated. I also have a red, home-style switch on a panel just below
the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot switch that reads "engine
heater" and the switch glows red when it's turned on.

Do these switches turn on the same thing? The owner's manual mentions
(without much detail, of course) that the AquaHot system will heat
the engine for cold starting.

Therefore, do I turn on both switches or will only one do the job?
Does anyone have a feel for how much time it takes to warm the engine
in freezing temperatures... last spring when we spent a week in the
Denver area with temperature lows frequently dropping into the
mid-20s, I turned on the "engine heater" switch about 10-12 hours
before departure. After many tries and much stumbling the Series 60
finally but reluctantly came to life.

I'm thinking I'll turn on the switch(es) about 24 hours before my
planned departure this time... or should I turn it on sooner?

TIA

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
On the road at Idaho Springs, CO

[Rob Robinson]

Pete I have both those switches. The one below the sink turns on the
electric block heater and heats the coolant. After a couple of hours you can
hear the coolant gurgling and feel the heat in the lines. This is the one I
use for four hours before starting my engine. My manual says the switch over
your head in the drivers seat area........"Energizes the engine coolant
circulation pump for heat exchangers in the hydronic system. The indicator
light shows the pump is on." Section 13 of my manual says that this feature
allows my Primus to preheat the engine. To use this preheat system I must
have the LPG or 120V immersion heat on and the overhead switch turned to on.
I haven't used the system yet but think I'll give it a try. So it would
appear that the kitchen switch is the electric block heater and the dash
switch is LPG or diesel heated coolant block heating system.

On 21/10/2007, Pete Masterson wrote:
>
> As I watch the snow accumulate outside the window, I realize that I
> have two switches that would seem to refer to the same function:
>
> On the panel on the left above the driver's head, I have an "engine
> preheat" switch with a green light that comes on when the switch is
> activated. I also have a red, home-style switch on a panel just below
> the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot switch that reads "engine
> heater" and the switch glows red when it's turned on.
>
> Do these switches turn on the same thing? The owner's manual mentions
> (without much detail, of course) that the AquaHot system will heat
> the engine for cold starting.
>
> Therefore, do I turn on both switches or will only one do the job?
> Does anyone have a feel for how much time it takes to warm the engine
> in freezing temperatures... last spring when we spent a week in the
> Denver area with temperature lows frequently dropping into the
> mid-20s, I turned on the "engine heater" switch about 10-12 hours
> before departure. After many tries and much stumbling the Series 60
> finally but reluctantly came to life.
>
> I'm thinking I'll turn on the switch(es) about 24 hours before my
> planned departure this time... or should I turn it on sooner?
>
> TIA
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> 1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>
>
>



--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
94 WLWB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bob & Carol Howald`]

Pete, The Engine pre-heat switch on the overhead panel is a
function of the primus system. If you still have the primus system
you would turn the engine pre-heat switch on when along with the #1
boiler and this would close a valve in the engine compartment that
allow's the hot water from the boiler to preheat the engine. (very
effective),Also at least on the 93 they have a manual valve located
in the engine compartment that can be turned if the electric one
failed. The older model's had only the manual valve, I believe the
electric overhead pre-heat was first added in the 93 model. The
switch in the galley area with the red light is the 115volt block
heater that's installed in the engine. On my coach in 20 degree
weather I usually get a good clean start with this switch on for
about 2 or 3 hours. I can hear it immediately when turning it on and
after a couple of hours can feel the block getting warm. I can also
use the primus and elec. together which really speeds heating. Hope
this helps.....Bob Illinois pt40 it's 80 degrees here today!!!!
>
> As I watch the snow accumulate outside the window, I realize that
I
> have two switches that would seem to refer to the same function:
>
> On the panel on the left above the driver's head, I have
an "engine
> preheat" switch with a green light that comes on when the switch
is
> activated. I also have a red, home-style switch on a panel just
below
> the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot switch that
reads "engine
> heater" and the switch glows red when it's turned on.
>
> Do these switches turn on the same thing? The owner's manual
mentions
> (without much detail, of course) that the AquaHot system will heat
> the engine for cold starting.
>
> Therefore, do I turn on both switches or will only one do the job?
> Does anyone have a feel for how much time it takes to warm the
engine
> in freezing temperatures... last spring when we spent a week in
the
> Denver area with temperature lows frequently dropping into the
> mid-20s, I turned on the "engine heater" switch about 10-12 hours
> before departure. After many tries and much stumbling the Series
60
> finally but reluctantly came to life.
>
> I'm thinking I'll turn on the switch(es) about 24 hours before my
> planned departure this time... or should I turn it on sooner?
>
> TIA
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> 1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>

[bumpersbird]

Pete,

I'm giving my coach the pre winter shake down. I turned on the dash
engine heat and am waiting to see what it does. I belive it's a 12V
heater and/or runs through the inverters? Not sure myself but Im will
ask my BB Guru.
The engine heat switch under the sink is a 120V system. There is a
breaker marked; engine heater, in the the main breaker box.
I was told never to use the cold engine start switch! It is for the
ETHER INJECTION. The series 60 may not like starting cold but it will
do so down to -20 so I am told. I don't know about that, but as in
your case mine starts but not without protest. That switch is left
over from the 8V92 days. NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT :}
Coach is in the nest after a wicked and too eventful trip to TEXAS!

Kurt Horvath
Bumpersbird
'95 PT-42 WLWB


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> As I watch the snow accumulate outside the window, I realize that
I
> have two switches that would seem to refer to the same function:
>
> On the panel on the left above the driver's head, I have
an "engine
> preheat" switch with a green light that comes on when the switch
is
> activated. I also have a red, home-style switch on a panel just
below
> the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot switch that
reads "engine
> heater" and the switch glows red when it's turned on.
>
> Do these switches turn on the same thing? The owner's manual
mentions
> (without much detail, of course) that the AquaHot system will heat
> the engine for cold starting.
>
> Therefore, do I turn on both switches or will only one do the job?
> Does anyone have a feel for how much time it takes to warm the
engine
> in freezing temperatures... last spring when we spent a week in
the
> Denver area with temperature lows frequently dropping into the
> mid-20s, I turned on the "engine heater" switch about 10-12 hours
> before departure. After many tries and much stumbling the Series
60
> finally but reluctantly came to life.
>
> I'm thinking I'll turn on the switch(es) about 24 hours before my
> planned departure this time... or should I turn it on sooner?
>
> TIA
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> 1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>

[Pete Masterson]

As another responder explained, the pre-heat switch turns on the
AquaHot engine heater. The pump is 12v and it fires up the diesel-
fuel burner in the AH. I'm told 2 or 3 hours is enough lead time for
zero degree weather. (Longer if colder, I suppose.)

The "engine heater" red lighted switch is 120v and powers an electric
block heater. I used it last spring when I was in this area with cold
weather. I'd let it run overnight but it still took many starter
motor runs and much stumbling before the diesel finally started up.

The ether canister in my engine compartment seems to be empty. Looks
like the original that's been in place for the last dozen years. It's
a red canister just above the bulk oil fill that you can see from the
curb-side grill/door.

I'm not-so-sure the Series 60 will start without pre-heat/block
heater help. I tried a start a few days ago (highs in the 40s)
without any preheating, etc. and I got a lot of smoke and stumbling,
but I could not get it to "go" and run for any length of time (at
best, it would stumble along for 15-20 seconds then die). A couple of
days later, in an afternoon where the highs were in the low 70s, it
started right up.

Since I plan to leave this area next Friday AM, I plan to turn on the
block heater in the evening and let it run overnight. I'll turn on
the pre-heat switch at around 5 AM with a planned 8 AM departure.

I note that in September I accidently drained the fuel line between
the Racor and the engine -- and could not start -- called the ERS and
the technician used ether to get the engine going. (Once started, the
fuel pump was able to refill the fuel line.)

The technician (from a DD-specific diesel shop) explained that you
should turn on the key and wait 20 or 30 seconds before putting ether
into the system and hitting the starter. It's not clearly documented,
but the Series 60 does have a 'glow plug' that automatically
activates for a few seconds just after the key is turned to the on
position. If you insert the ether too soon, it could explode due to
the glow plugs. (And that would be the start of a very bad day.) So,
the suggestion to avoid ether is a good one and should only be used
as a last resort.

The technician removed a sensor on the air intake (upper right as you
face the engine looking in from the curb-side grill/door) to hand-
spray ether into the engine.

Interesting comment about Texas ... I'm on my way there after we
leave Colorado. I hope the weather improves...

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
On the road at Idaho Springs, CO where every thing is frozen this
morning after snow all day yesterday...


On Oct 21, 2007, at 8:32 PM, bumpersbird wrote:

> Pete,
>
> I'm giving my coach the pre winter shake down. I turned on the dash
> engine heat and am waiting to see what it does. I belive it's a 12V
> heater and/or runs through the inverters? Not sure myself but Im will
> ask my BB Guru.
> The engine heat switch under the sink is a 120V system. There is a
> breaker marked; engine heater, in the the main breaker box.
> I was told never to use the cold engine start switch! It is for the
> ETHER INJECTION. The series 60 may not like starting cold but it will
> do so down to -20 so I am told. I don't know about that, but as in
> your case mine starts but not without protest. That switch is left
> over from the 8V92 days. NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT :}
> Coach is in the nest after a wicked and too eventful trip to TEXAS!
>
> Kurt Horvath
> Bumpersbird
> '95 PT-42 WLWB
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
> wrote:
>>
>> As I watch the snow accumulate outside the window, I realize that
> I
>> have two switches that would seem to refer to the same function:
>>
>> On the panel on the left above the driver's head, I have
> an "engine
>> preheat" switch with a green light that comes on when the switch
> is
>> activated. I also have a red, home-style switch on a panel just
> below
>> the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot switch that
> reads "engine
>> heater" and the switch glows red when it's turned on.
>>
>> Do these switches turn on the same thing? The owner's manual
> mentions
>> (without much detail, of course) that the AquaHot system will heat
>> the engine for cold starting.
>>
>> Therefore, do I turn on both switches or will only one do the job?
>> Does anyone have a feel for how much time it takes to warm the
> engine
>> in freezing temperatures... last spring when we spent a week in
> the
>> Denver area with temperature lows frequently dropping into the
>> mid-20s, I turned on the "engine heater" switch about 10-12 hours
>> before departure. After many tries and much stumbling the Series
> 60
>> finally but reluctantly came to life.
>>
>> I'm thinking I'll turn on the switch(es) about 24 hours before my
>> planned departure this time... or should I turn it on sooner?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Pete Masterson
>> aeonix1@...
>> 1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Jack and Liz Pearce]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> As I watch the snow accumulate outside the window, I realize that I
> have two switches that would seem to refer to the same function:
>
> On the panel on the left above the driver's head, I have an "engine
> preheat" switch with a green light that comes on when the switch is
> activated. I also have a red, home-style switch on a panel just below
> the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot switch that reads "engine
> heater" and the switch glows red when it's turned on.
>
> Do these switches turn on the same thing?
...................................

Howdy, Pete.

Sure glad you started this thread. We are in Buena Vista, CO and we have
snow and 20 degree temps. We have the Webasto (conversionof Primus)
hydronic heating system. We also have that electric engine heater
switch on a panel just below the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot
switch that reads "engine heater" and the switch glows red when it's
turned on. We were wondering if running the hydronic heat will also
heat the engine??



TIA,
Jack and Liz Pearce

Fulltiming in a 1993 Wanderlodge

[Pete Masterson]

Based on responses I've received from this (and the other) online
discussion list:

On my '95, the hydronic heat (In my case, an AquaHot -- but it uses
the same Webasto burner) is hooked up with the engine. On the road,
it captures engine heat to warm the heating water in the system that
heats the coach interior. When parked, the "Engine Pre-Heat" switch
(on my upper dash to the left above the driver's head) will start a
pump that heats the engine water with the Webasto burner. This is
_not_ the same switch as the red "engine heater" switch by the
Konstant Hot. That switch turns on a block heater that runs on 120
vac. (And in my previous experience, it doesn't do a lot, but it does
help.)

On some earlier 'birds, the overhead panels are different, so the
"Engine Pre-Heat" switch may not be located in the same place -- and
may have a different name.

You can tell if the "Engine Pre-Heat" switch is working, as it will
turn on the Webasto burner when it is on. Turn off the other hydronic
heat thermostats for testing, so you can tell if you have a similar
switch.

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
On the road at Idaho Springs, CO


On Oct 22, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Jack and Liz Pearce wrote:

>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
> wrote:
>>
>> As I watch the snow accumulate outside the window, I realize that I
>> have two switches that would seem to refer to the same function:
>>
>> On the panel on the left above the driver's head, I have an "engine
>> preheat" switch with a green light that comes on when the switch is
>> activated. I also have a red, home-style switch on a panel just below
>> the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot switch that reads "engine
>> heater" and the switch glows red when it's turned on.
>>
>> Do these switches turn on the same thing?
> ...................................
>
> Howdy, Pete.
>
> Sure glad you started this thread. We are in Buena Vista, CO and we
> have
> snow and 20 degree temps. We have the Webasto (conversionof Primus)
> hydronic heating system. We also have that electric engine heater
> switch on a panel just below the galley sink, next to the Konstant
> Hot
> switch that reads "engine heater" and the switch glows red when it's
> turned on. We were wondering if running the hydronic heat will also
> heat the engine??
>
> TIA,
> Jack and Liz Pearce
>
> Fulltiming in a 1993 Wanderlodge

[martingregg598]

Hi Pete, on my 95 BMC 37' the Aqua Hot engine preheat loop runs through
the dash heater core, so if I have the dash heater, hot-cold lever in
the cool position the valve is closed and the hot engine coolant coming
through the Aqua Hot to the dash heater can't pass through back to the
engine, no loop. I discovered this one day when I had the A/H engine
preheat on and I was playing around with something under the dash and
felt the hot line on one side of the valve and cold on the other. I
can't help but wonder if the installers at BB put all of the A/H
plumbing in the same way? My instruction manual says not to have the
A/H engine preheat on while the engine is running. Good Luck.
Marty Gregg
95 BMC 37
Kennewick, WA.

[bumpersbird]

Thanks Pete,
Ditto on the switchs. Last winter the coach sat outside the whole
winter.The Auqa-Hot is a great heater. It does it all. It keep the
coach at 50 degrees,internal & bays. never preheated the 60, started
OK but not without a lot smoke & huffing & puffing. Watch the gauges
they tell the story if your warming up. TEXAS YEE HAW I'LL B BACK
THERE NEXT WEEK TO PICK UP MY CAR HAULER. Had to leave it behind for
a new axle. Lost the hub on HWY 20E to LA. Had to limp up to
TEXARCANNA TX/AR.90+miles on three wheels;}.ANd just in keeping with
the rules of Murphy, lost a tag wheel to a balloned sidewall, not
being good enough for Murphy when I found a new tire. no not a
Michlean like all my other tires. A fine Goodyear G149. Closest
Michelean tire is in Sacramento the only one in the system.
Murphy has left me a gift , the rim is so badly chewed up that I have
to buy a new rim, I love the little extras. No it doesn't match. No
the holes are a little bigger. BLA BLA Bla, Hell I love TEXAS. What's
not to love, Want a cold beer in San Antonio, Hills & Dales Loop 1604
If they don't have your beer then you don't want it!

Kurt Horvath
'95 PT-42 WLWB


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> As another responder explained, the pre-heat switch turns on the
> AquaHot engine heater. The pump is 12v and it fires up the diesel-
> fuel burner in the AH. I'm told 2 or 3 hours is enough lead time
for
> zero degree weather. (Longer if colder, I suppose.)
>
> The "engine heater" red lighted switch is 120v and powers an
electric
> block heater. I used it last spring when I was in this area with
cold
> weather. I'd let it run overnight but it still took many starter
> motor runs and much stumbling before the diesel finally started up.
>
> The ether canister in my engine compartment seems to be empty.
Looks
> like the original that's been in place for the last dozen years.
It's
> a red canister just above the bulk oil fill that you can see from
the
> curb-side grill/door.
>
> I'm not-so-sure the Series 60 will start without pre-heat/block
> heater help. I tried a start a few days ago (highs in the 40s)
> without any preheating, etc. and I got a lot of smoke and
stumbling,
> but I could not get it to "go" and run for any length of time (at
> best, it would stumble along for 15-20 seconds then die). A couple
of
> days later, in an afternoon where the highs were in the low 70s,
it
> started right up.
>
> Since I plan to leave this area next Friday AM, I plan to turn on
the
> block heater in the evening and let it run overnight. I'll turn on
> the pre-heat switch at around 5 AM with a planned 8 AM departure.
>
> I note that in September I accidently drained the fuel line
between
> the Racor and the engine -- and could not start -- called the ERS
and
> the technician used ether to get the engine going. (Once started,
the
> fuel pump was able to refill the fuel line.)
>
> The technician (from a DD-specific diesel shop) explained that you
> should turn on the key and wait 20 or 30 seconds before putting
ether
> into the system and hitting the starter. It's not clearly
documented,
> but the Series 60 does have a 'glow plug' that automatically
> activates for a few seconds just after the key is turned to the on
> position. If you insert the ether too soon, it could explode due
to
> the glow plugs. (And that would be the start of a very bad day.)
So,
> the suggestion to avoid ether is a good one and should only be
used
> as a last resort.
>
> The technician removed a sensor on the air intake (upper right as
you
> face the engine looking in from the curb-side grill/door) to hand-
> spray ether into the engine.
>
> Interesting comment about Texas ... I'm on my way there after we
> leave Colorado. I hope the weather improves...
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> 1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO where every thing is frozen this
> morning after snow all day yesterday...
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2007, at 8:32 PM, bumpersbird wrote:
>
> > Pete,
> >
> > I'm giving my coach the pre winter shake down. I turned on the
dash
> > engine heat and am waiting to see what it does. I belive it's a
12V
> > heater and/or runs through the inverters? Not sure myself but Im
will
> > ask my BB Guru.
> > The engine heat switch under the sink is a 120V system. There is a
> > breaker marked; engine heater, in the the main breaker box.
> > I was told never to use the cold engine start switch! It is for
the
> > ETHER INJECTION. The series 60 may not like starting cold but it
will
> > do so down to -20 so I am told. I don't know about that, but as in
> > your case mine starts but not without protest. That switch is left
> > over from the 8V92 days. NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH
THAT :}
> > Coach is in the nest after a wicked and too eventful trip to
TEXAS!
> >
> > Kurt Horvath
> > Bumpersbird
> > '95 PT-42 WLWB
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> As I watch the snow accumulate outside the window, I realize that
> > I
> >> have two switches that would seem to refer to the same function:
> >>
> >> On the panel on the left above the driver's head, I have
> > an "engine
> >> preheat" switch with a green light that comes on when the switch
> > is
> >> activated. I also have a red, home-style switch on a panel just
> > below
> >> the galley sink, next to the Konstant Hot switch that
> > reads "engine
> >> heater" and the switch glows red when it's turned on.
> >>
> >> Do these switches turn on the same thing? The owner's manual
> > mentions
> >> (without much detail, of course) that the AquaHot system will
heat
> >> the engine for cold starting.
> >>
> >> Therefore, do I turn on both switches or will only one do the
job?
> >> Does anyone have a feel for how much time it takes to warm the
> > engine
> >> in freezing temperatures... last spring when we spent a week in
> > the
> >> Denver area with temperature lows frequently dropping into the
> >> mid-20s, I turned on the "engine heater" switch about 10-12 hours
> >> before departure. After many tries and much stumbling the Series
> > 60
> >> finally but reluctantly came to life.
> >>
> >> I'm thinking I'll turn on the switch(es) about 24 hours before my
> >> planned departure this time... or should I turn it on sooner?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> Pete Masterson
> >> aeonix1@
> >> 1995 Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> >> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[David Brady]

On my LXi, there's a pair of coolant hoses going to the A-H, and
a pair going to the dash heater - independent systems. I don't know
when BB started doing it differently then your's Marty.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

martingregg598 wrote:
>
> Hi Pete, on my 95 BMC 37' the Aqua Hot engine preheat loop runs through
> the dash heater core, so if I have the dash heater, hot-cold lever in
> the cool position the valve is closed and the hot engine coolant coming
> through the Aqua Hot to the dash heater can't pass through back to the
> engine, no loop. I discovered this one day when I had the A/H engine
> preheat on and I was playing around with something under the dash and
> felt the hot line on one side of the valve and cold on the other. I
> can't help but wonder if the installers at BB put all of the A/H
> plumbing in the same way? My instruction manual says not to have the
> A/H engine preheat on while the engine is running. Good Luck.
> Marty Gregg
> 95 BMC 37
> Kennewick, WA.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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3:09 PM
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]