Installing new Xantrex RS3000

[mbrund]

Well here goes nothing. Ripped out the old Heart 2000 and twin Iota
45's today. Pulled the charger electrical box and the jbox for the
inverted circuit off the firewall. The conduit is too small (1/2")
for the new 50AMP circuits that need to be run to and from the new
Xantrex RS3000. So will have to cut a larger hole in the floor
behind the curb side draw in the bed room below the circuit breaker
panel into the engine comparment next to the old circuits. Will
then run teo new 3/4" liquid tight conduits from there to the
inverter box above the batteries.

Will need to pull the original 50 AMP circuit at the coach breaker
panel and run it to a new 50 AMP breaker panel. Will mount the new
breaker panel behind the current breaker panel but facing the other
direction into the shirt closet, will cut an access panel in the
shirt closet upper left storage area so the breaker cab be reset if
it trips. Will then need to run out of this breaker panel to the
inverter input. Then return from the inverter to the original 50
AMP breaker in the coach. The down side is that everything in the
coach will be able to be on the inverter when shore power is lost.
But I plan to add the Auto-generator start to the RS3000 so if I
lose shore power it will start the generator when the batteries get
down to a set voltage.

Anyone else been down this road? If so would be interested in
hearing what you did.

I know some have replaced the original Heart with a Xantrex RS2000,
the issue they may or may not know is that the RS2000/3000 doesn't
have a built in circuit breaker. The old Heart inverters in our
coaches have a 15 amp breaker on the inverted circuit. The way the
older WB's are designed requires a circuit breaker in the inverter
as there is no breaker on the inverted side of the coach AC circuits
due to the way the WB engineers designed using relays vs a 2nd
breaker panel. So if you have swapped your inverter out, please
make sure that either your inverter is a built-in circuit breaker,
or that you have added an external breaker to the inverted circuit.

Michael Brundridge
92 WB40
Georgetown, TX

[Gregory OConnor]

Unless The RS3 has a transfer requirement I cant see a need to
supply the RS3 with any more than 20 amps of wire size to run the
chargers and 25 amps of wire size from the inverter to the inverter
run appliances and recepticals. (300w/120volts=25amps)

My 1994 with a Heart 2800 must have some 12v/120v relays that select
the inverter power path because it is not like one leg of the panel
is hot on inverted power????

I wonder if Xantrex has insight on the retrofit or a tech hotline.
If someone here has info the only sure thing would be a horror story
or what not to do. All other installs may not be totally necessary
or proven.

when I pas a hydrolic line through plys of steel, I make the hole
round and larger. Round to keep from cracking, large to keep frm
slicing the product.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandca
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbrund" <mbrund@...>
wrote:
>
> Well here goes nothing. Ripped out the old Heart 2000 and twin
Iota
> 45's today. Pulled the charger electrical box and the jbox for
the
> inverted circuit off the firewall. The conduit is too small
(1/2")
> for the new 50AMP circuits that need to be run to and from the new
> Xantrex RS3000. So will have to cut a larger hole in the floor
> behind the curb side draw in the bed room below the circuit
breaker
> panel into the engine comparment next to the old circuits. Will
> then run teo new 3/4" liquid tight conduits from there to the
> inverter box above the batteries.
>
> Will need to pull the original 50 AMP circuit at the coach breaker
> panel and run it to a new 50 AMP breaker panel. Will mount the
new
> breaker panel behind the current breaker panel but facing the
other
> direction into the shirt closet, will cut an access panel in the
> shirt closet upper left storage area so the breaker cab be reset
if
> it trips. Will then need to run out of this breaker panel to the
> inverter input. Then return from the inverter to the original 50
> AMP breaker in the coach. The down side is that everything in the
> coach will be able to be on the inverter when shore power is
lost.
> But I plan to add the Auto-generator start to the RS3000 so if I
> lose shore power it will start the generator when the batteries
get
> down to a set voltage.
>
> Anyone else been down this road? If so would be interested in
> hearing what you did.
>
> I know some have replaced the original Heart with a Xantrex
RS2000,
> the issue they may or may not know is that the RS2000/3000 doesn't
> have a built in circuit breaker. The old Heart inverters in our
> coaches have a 15 amp breaker on the inverted circuit. The way the
> older WB's are designed requires a circuit breaker in the inverter
> as there is no breaker on the inverted side of the coach AC
circuits
> due to the way the WB engineers designed using relays vs a 2nd
> breaker panel. So if you have swapped your inverter out, please
> make sure that either your inverter is a built-in circuit breaker,
> or that you have added an external breaker to the inverted circuit.
>
> Michael Brundridge
> 92 WB40
> Georgetown, TX
>

[sfedeli3]

Hi Michael,

Two years ago, I installed at ProSine 2.0 in the Rediline/charger
compartment. There was a 12/3 cable running up through grey plastic
conduit to the closet behind the bedroom. It took some silicone
grease, but I was able to pull the old rediline wire out and run 10/2
and the phone duplex cord for the ProSine's control panel up through
the same conduit and behind the 48" flourescent wall sconce in the
bedroom to the closet where the main breaker panel is located. I ended
up pulling 4 circuits out of the main panel and relocating them to a
smaller 30A sub panel in the closet behind the main breaker panel. The
110V supply for the charger side of the inverter was already routed to
a duplex outlet in the charger compartment. I seem to recall that
being 12/2 wire, and I've had no problems with the breaker tripping
when there is a 100A charge dumping into the batteries. You can
program the ProSine to know the size of the breaker.

Shane Fedeli
85PT40
Hershey, PA

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbrund" <mbrund@...> wrote:
>
> Well here goes nothing. Ripped out the old Heart 2000 and twin Iota
> 45's today. Pulled the charger electrical box and the jbox for the
> inverted circuit off the firewall. The conduit is too small (1/2")
> for the new 50AMP circuits that need to be run to and from the new
> Xantrex RS3000. So will have to cut a larger hole in the floor
> behind the curb side draw in the bed room below the circuit breaker
> panel into the engine comparment next to the old circuits. Will
> then run teo new 3/4" liquid tight conduits from there to the
> inverter box above the batteries.
>
> Will need to pull the original 50 AMP circuit at the coach breaker
> panel and run it to a new 50 AMP breaker panel. Will mount the new
> breaker panel behind the current breaker panel but facing the other
> direction into the shirt closet, will cut an access panel in the
> shirt closet upper left storage area so the breaker cab be reset if
> it trips. Will then need to run out of this breaker panel to the
> inverter input. Then return from the inverter to the original 50
> AMP breaker in the coach. The down side is that everything in the
> coach will be able to be on the inverter when shore power is lost.
> But I plan to add the Auto-generator start to the RS3000 so if I
> lose shore power it will start the generator when the batteries get
> down to a set voltage.
>
> Anyone else been down this road? If so would be interested in
> hearing what you did.
>
> I know some have replaced the original Heart with a Xantrex RS2000,
> the issue they may or may not know is that the RS2000/3000 doesn't
> have a built in circuit breaker. The old Heart inverters in our
> coaches have a 15 amp breaker on the inverted circuit. The way the
> older WB's are designed requires a circuit breaker in the inverter
> as there is no breaker on the inverted side of the coach AC circuits
> due to the way the WB engineers designed using relays vs a 2nd
> breaker panel. So if you have swapped your inverter out, please
> make sure that either your inverter is a built-in circuit breaker,
> or that you have added an external breaker to the inverted circuit.
>
> Michael Brundridge
> 92 WB40
> Georgetown, TX
>

[mbrund]

The RS series does have a transfer switch built in.

THe charger is a 150 AMP charger and requires 25 AMPS AC I believe
to operate at that rate. So wire is going to have to be run no
matter what as the current wiring was slightly under-rated for the
circuit to being with as it appears to be 14/2 (which is derated to
15 AMPs by code).

Yes, the BB engineers used a set of relays that engaged side is
coming from the breaker panel and they jumper shore power to the
relay coil as well. The other side of the relay is attached to the
inverter. When shore power is lost the relays go back to the
inverter contacts as the relay coil is not being driven by shore
power and now you are on inverter power on those circuits. But like
I said in the prior message, that circuit has to be protected by a
circuit breaker between the inverter and the coils, just happens
that the Heart units in the coaches have one built in the inverter
(it is a round push button type on the face of the inverter). But
some of the new inverters don't install such an breaker and require
that an external breaker be used, which is just the case in the
Xantrex RS series.

Michael Brundridge
92 WB40
Georgetown, TX


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
> Unless The RS3 has a transfer requirement I cant see a need to
> supply the RS3 with any more than 20 amps of wire size to run the
> chargers and 25 amps of wire size from the inverter to the
inverter
> run appliances and recepticals. (300w/120volts=25amps)
>
> My 1994 with a Heart 2800 must have some 12v/120v relays that
select
> the inverter power path because it is not like one leg of the
panel
> is hot on inverted power????
>
> I wonder if Xantrex has insight on the retrofit or a tech hotline.
> If someone here has info the only sure thing would be a horror
story
> or what not to do. All other installs may not be totally necessary
> or proven.
>
> when I pas a hydrolic line through plys of steel, I make the hole
> round and larger. Round to keep from cracking, large to keep frm
> slicing the product.
>
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptRomolandca
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbrund" <mbrund@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Well here goes nothing. Ripped out the old Heart 2000 and twin
> Iota
> > 45's today. Pulled the charger electrical box and the jbox for
> the
> > inverted circuit off the firewall. The conduit is too small
> (1/2")
> > for the new 50AMP circuits that need to be run to and from the
new
> > Xantrex RS3000. So will have to cut a larger hole in the floor
> > behind the curb side draw in the bed room below the circuit
> breaker
> > panel into the engine comparment next to the old circuits. Will
> > then run teo new 3/4" liquid tight conduits from there to the
> > inverter box above the batteries.
> >
> > Will need to pull the original 50 AMP circuit at the coach
breaker
> > panel and run it to a new 50 AMP breaker panel. Will mount the
> new
> > breaker panel behind the current breaker panel but facing the
> other
> > direction into the shirt closet, will cut an access panel in the
> > shirt closet upper left storage area so the breaker cab be reset
> if
> > it trips. Will then need to run out of this breaker panel to
the
> > inverter input. Then return from the inverter to the original
50
> > AMP breaker in the coach. The down side is that everything in
the
> > coach will be able to be on the inverter when shore power is
> lost.
> > But I plan to add the Auto-generator start to the RS3000 so if I
> > lose shore power it will start the generator when the batteries
> get
> > down to a set voltage.
> >
> > Anyone else been down this road? If so would be interested in
> > hearing what you did.
> >
> > I know some have replaced the original Heart with a Xantrex
> RS2000,
> > the issue they may or may not know is that the RS2000/3000
doesn't
> > have a built in circuit breaker. The old Heart inverters in our
> > coaches have a 15 amp breaker on the inverted circuit. The way
the
> > older WB's are designed requires a circuit breaker in the
inverter
> > as there is no breaker on the inverted side of the coach AC
> circuits
> > due to the way the WB engineers designed using relays vs a 2nd
> > breaker panel. So if you have swapped your inverter out, please
> > make sure that either your inverter is a built-in circuit
breaker,
> > or that you have added an external breaker to the inverted
circuit.
> >
> > Michael Brundridge
> > 92 WB40
> > Georgetown, TX
> >
>

[mbrund]

THe RS3000 is the same, you can tell it what the input breaker size
is so that when it is in power share mode (i.e. charger is charging
batteries) it will reduce the charger input power to insure the
input breaker does not trip. The RS3000 battery charger only pulls
power from circuit 1. So I will need to make sure that the circuit
with the two AC's on them is on the opposite circuit to insure I get
max charge potential.

Michael Brundridge
92 WB40
Georgetown, TX


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "sfedeli3" <sfedeli3@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Two years ago, I installed at ProSine 2.0 in the Rediline/charger
> compartment. There was a 12/3 cable running up through grey plastic
> conduit to the closet behind the bedroom. It took some silicone
> grease, but I was able to pull the old rediline wire out and run
10/2
> and the phone duplex cord for the ProSine's control panel up
through
> the same conduit and behind the 48" flourescent wall sconce in the
> bedroom to the closet where the main breaker panel is located. I
ended
> up pulling 4 circuits out of the main panel and relocating them to
a
> smaller 30A sub panel in the closet behind the main breaker panel.
The
> 110V supply for the charger side of the inverter was already
routed to
> a duplex outlet in the charger compartment. I seem to recall that
> being 12/2 wire, and I've had no problems with the breaker tripping
> when there is a 100A charge dumping into the batteries. You can
> program the ProSine to know the size of the breaker.
>
> Shane Fedeli
> 85PT40
> Hershey, PA
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbrund" <mbrund@> wrote:
> >
> > Well here goes nothing. Ripped out the old Heart 2000 and twin
Iota
> > 45's today. Pulled the charger electrical box and the jbox for
the
> > inverted circuit off the firewall. The conduit is too small
(1/2")
> > for the new 50AMP circuits that need to be run to and from the
new
> > Xantrex RS3000. So will have to cut a larger hole in the floor
> > behind the curb side draw in the bed room below the circuit
breaker
> > panel into the engine comparment next to the old circuits. Will
> > then run teo new 3/4" liquid tight conduits from there to the
> > inverter box above the batteries.
> >
> > Will need to pull the original 50 AMP circuit at the coach
breaker
> > panel and run it to a new 50 AMP breaker panel. Will mount the
new
> > breaker panel behind the current breaker panel but facing the
other
> > direction into the shirt closet, will cut an access panel in the
> > shirt closet upper left storage area so the breaker cab be reset
if
> > it trips. Will then need to run out of this breaker panel to
the
> > inverter input. Then return from the inverter to the original
50
> > AMP breaker in the coach. The down side is that everything in
the
> > coach will be able to be on the inverter when shore power is
lost.
> > But I plan to add the Auto-generator start to the RS3000 so if I
> > lose shore power it will start the generator when the batteries
get
> > down to a set voltage.
> >
> > Anyone else been down this road? If so would be interested in
> > hearing what you did.
> >
> > I know some have replaced the original Heart with a Xantrex
RS2000,
> > the issue they may or may not know is that the RS2000/3000
doesn't
> > have a built in circuit breaker. The old Heart inverters in our
> > coaches have a 15 amp breaker on the inverted circuit. The way
the
> > older WB's are designed requires a circuit breaker in the
inverter
> > as there is no breaker on the inverted side of the coach AC
circuits
> > due to the way the WB engineers designed using relays vs a 2nd
> > breaker panel. So if you have swapped your inverter out, please
> > make sure that either your inverter is a built-in circuit
breaker,
> > or that you have added an external breaker to the inverted
circuit.
> >
> > Michael Brundridge
> > 92 WB40
> > Georgetown, TX
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

If possible, I also install a rubber grommet (available from many
hardware stores) in the hole to further protect the wires/tubing,
etc. When I pulled some wires from the basement into the interior, I
also sealed the hole with a generous blob of silicone caulk -- in
addition to blocking unwanted air flow, it tends to hold the wire (or
tubing) so that it won't rub on the edges of the hole and wear.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Lockhart Texas



On Nov 26, 2007, at 10:57 PM, Gregory OConnor wrote:

> <snip>

> when I pas a hydrolic line through plys of steel, I make the hole
> round and larger. Round to keep from cracking, large to keep frm
> slicing the product.
>
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptRomolandca
>

[Pete Masterson]

100 amp charge at 12 v is about 8.5 amps at 120 vac (plus conversion
losses). It's no wonder the breaker doesn't trip as this is a modest
draw on the 120 vac side.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Lockhart Texas



On Nov 27, 2007, at 8:06 AM, sfedeli3 wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> <snip> I've had no problems with the breaker tripping
> when there is a 100A charge dumping into the batteries. You can
> program the ProSine to know the size of the breaker.